Air rage: Is reclining your seat a right?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Air rage: Is reclining your seat a right?

By A. Pawlowski, CNN
December 9, 2010 --
------------------

As Brian Dougal leaned back on the Denver-bound flight late last month, he felt someone bump his seat, according to a criminal complaint filed in the U.S. District Court of Colorado.

"Are you serious? My knees are up against the seat," said the man behind him, identified as Tomislav Zelenovic, according to the complaint.

Dougal suggested that Zelenovic also recline, slide into an empty seat next to him or move his legs to the side. Dougal told the man in 10C that he paid for his seat and was going to recline it.

Zelenovic then shook the back of Dougal's seat and grabbed his right ear, pulling it back and down with enough force to knock Dougal's glasses off his face, according to the complaint.

When the plane landed in Denver, police officers escorted Zelenovic off the flight. He was charged with assault "by striking, beating, or wounding on an aircraft" and has pleaded not guilty. Zelenovic's attorney declined to comment on the case for this article.

-----------------------------

Steve Collins, an Australian broadcaster who runs the blog Grumpy's Getaway Guide, argues that he shouldn't have to put up with passengers who lean back and invade his personal space.

"I don't recline my seat, primarily because I have respect for the person behind me, and I simply hate it when the person in front of me shifts their seat as far back as it will go," Collins recently vented in a blog entry titled "Ban the reclining seat on planes."

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/12/09/reclining.seat.rant/?hpt=C2

[GoneOffShore]

1. Oooh, yummy, popcorn! And beer!

:popcorn:

:beer:

[Liberal_in_LA]

6. no popcorn needed. There is no controversy. EVERYONE HATES A RECLINED HEAD IN THEIR LAP

[hlthe2b]

15. I think the only cure for that...

is a clumsy passenger behind them--with their bottled water. ;)

[Igel]

61. Nope. Infants and small children.

That seat back blocks a lot of sound. If you lean your head--and, necessarily for most people, your ears--back into the stentorian vortex, you get it full blast.

Sure, you can crank the earphone volume up to drown it out. You suffer permanent hearing loss (either way, actually), but maybe it's worth it to recline for those 3 or 4 hours.

[GoneOffShore]

131. Well yes. And every time you kick the back of an airplane seat, God

kills a kitten.

And perhaps when you recline your seat in coach.

[DailyGrind51]

139. Then fly First Class and pay through the nose!

[Occam Bandage]

2. Personally, I don't think coach seats recline enough. nt

[pnwmom]

3. If there's someone behind me I never recline my seat.

I hate it when somebody else's head is practically in my lap.

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. me too! I'm short but I still hate it when the seat in front of me reclines

[dhill926]

9. agreed.....

and I fly a lot. Just be considerate for chrissake.

[hlthe2b]

30. Me too, but from the comments on this thread, it seems civility

and consideration are largely dead.

[liberalhistorian]

82. Being civil and considerate does not mean that I must fly

in discomfort on a seat I've paid for. I'm squished by the damn seat enough as it is, I'm gonna recline the seat if I need to do so.

[Dappleganger]

58. Neither do I.

And if someone reclined back into my space too much, I ask the stewardess to ask them to sit up. So far that's worked out pretty well.

Now if the person is seriously overweight and their elbows are in my lap, there's really nothing which can be done. :(

[JCMach1]

68. Really not an option on long-haul flights...

[pnwmom]

72. Why? n/t

[JCMach1]

75. Unless you can sleep upright.... also when everyone else puts their seat back, you lose your

space. The only way to regain it it to lean back yourself.

Dubai to USA is 16+ hrs. No matter how you slice that up (unless you are in business or 1st class) you are in misery.

[pnwmom]

99. That is why the airlines should fix the seats so they don't recline

more than a couple inches. The current recline was designed for much greater distances between seats than we have now. It isn't appropriate anymore.

[Gormy Cuss]

145. The airlines should fix the problem by resetting the number of seats to factory configurations.

The squeezing of extra rows is the cause of the problem, not the recline feature on the seats.

[HelenWheels]

148. ding,ding,ding - You have the correct answer

I recline because if I don't my back kills me, sorry to the person behind me but that's the way it is.

[Gormy Cuss]

149. I truly hate it when the person in front of me does a full recline into my lap

but I don't blame my fellow traveler for the inconvenience.

[reggie the dog]

92. everyone reclines

i guess in france we just think that we can all recline our seats and that our space does not include where the seat in front of us can recline...

[jeffrey_X]

115. :goodposting: same here!

:)

[elleng]

4. No, but neither is assault and battery.

[hlthe2b]

17. Can I file assault charges...

against the 6 year old that kicks my seat back for a solid hour? :evilgrin:



Just kiddin, but we can dream, now can't we?

[elleng]

20. Dream about taking it to his parents!

Imagining my expression at them. x(

[hlthe2b]

25. Oh, I'm sure you know how that works out...

The kind of parent who lets their child do that doesn't usually gain any control over the child just because someone complains. But, yeah, I can dream of throttling the parent. (or dooming them to an inescapable bubble with their screaming child) :mad:

[elleng]

21. dupe

[pnwmom]

40. I have to jiggle my feet and move them around to prevent blood clots.

I don't bump into the seat ahead of me, but that didn't stop one guy from turning around and asking me to keep my feet still. (He must have felt the vibrations from the floor.)

I think he was mortified when I told him I had to move my legs because of a clotting condition and that I had already had blood clots twice.

It's tough being squeezed into such small spaces with so many people.

[Incitatus]

7. idk, but it's only a matter of time before the airlines figure out how to charge you for doing it.

[pnwmom]

10. LOL. n/t

[JBoy]

8. Any complaint has to be with the airline. Assaulting a passenger is never the answer.

That said, the "travelling public" as a whole has voted with their pocketbooks to reduce airfares to the extent that legroom is reduced, perhaps too much.

I sure hope none of the complainers are anti-regulation Republicans. The free market is speaking.

[pipoman]

19. Yea right

it's the passenger's idea to pile as many people on top of each other as possible. It wouldn't matter if the airlines could get 10k per coach seat, they will pile as many as possible in the aircraft. It is corporate responsibility to shareholders over customers which drives this, doesn't have shit to do with anything passengers did or didn't do.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

11. If you want more space, that is what FIRST CLASS is for.

I pay for my seat and have every right to recline it. Your personal space only begins after the point of the seat in front of you in the fully reclined position. It's a feature of the airliner, people pay for such features with the price of the ticket, and it is what it is. Alternatively, feel free to recline your own seat and use the space alotted to you for which you paid.

Everyone absolutely not only has the right to recline their seat, but should not be made to feel badly about it.
Personally, I love when the seat in front of me does not recline. then I get loads of room.

[NashVegas]

18. Thank You

If people have a problem with not enough space, shell out the extra $40 and fly with an airline that leaves space for passengers.

[pnwmom]

27. Which airline costs $40 more and gives plenty of legroom?

I'll be happy to fly that one exclusively.

[NashVegas]

111. Southwest

Sometimes, it's less. When you consider luggage fees, even better.

[Hawkowl]

118. Many do now

United Economy Plus, and Frontier Airlines' Classic right off the top of my head.

[pnwmom]

42. I think First Class, where there is plenty of room, should be for reclining seats.

All the rest should only slightly recline.

[reggie the dog]

93. how would you sleep between basel and chicago?

seriously i do the trans atlantic thing and when the person in front of me reclines i do the same

[pnwmom]

106. I avoid sleeping on airplanes because it adds to the risk of a DVT --

which happened to me on a cross-country flight. I need to move my legs and feet as much as I can. Going to sleep prevents that. No healthy person "needs" to sleep on a flight of less than 12 hours.

[bettyellen]

135. I need to sleep on overnight flights because I am healthy and I can

and otherwise I would miss a full nights sleeps or full days activities (and cause myself jet lag) for work or for vacations. I can't miss a whole evening's rest or a glorious vacation day because you have special and different needs. you should discuss it with the airlines and get them to give you a bulkhead.
most overnight flights I have been on, the majority recline, thank god.

[some guy]

71. Yeahbutno

Your attitude only works until one gets to the last row of the plane - those seats don't recline, so those passengers don't have that option.

I don't blame passengers for reclining their seats; I blame airlines for adding more rows of seats, and thus creating the problem.

[liberalhistorian]

83. + one million

Couldn't have said it better.

[mike_c]

12. I flew from Atlanta to Sacramento last month on Delta...

...and the woman in front of me reclined her seat as soon as the plane made altitude. Her seat back was 8 inches from my face. I measured it. I tried to open my laptop on my lap and could not open it far enough to see the screen. I could barely open a book in my lap. Spent five hours in that hell.

Fuck the airlines. I've ruled out air travel except in the most dire circumstances.

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. you poor thing. I've been in that position.

[hlthe2b]

34. I have too... and the person had horrendous breath, to boot

[Liberal_in_LA]

129. or you can see their dandruff or hair plugs up close

[pnwmom]

31. Would spitballs in that situation constitute assault?

;-)

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

35. Technically, yes. Spitting on someone would be assault.

I would have to imagine a "spitball" would qualify as spitting on someone.

[pnwmom]

44. If the person reclining had pouffy enough hair,

the person in back could decorate it with stickers. The reclining person probably wouldn't notice.

[Contrary1]

51. Glitter would be a nice addition. n/t

[pnwmom]

52. Do they sell sticky glitter? n/t

[Igel]

62. Air sickness.

Or the implicit threat of it.

"Excuse me, Mr. Head N. Mylap? Your seat back prevents me from accessing the pocket in front of me, and while I really hate to interfere with your traveling comfort I must request your assistance, I feel I must ask you to assist me by handing me *your* airsickness bag."

[blondeatlast]

95. "...and HURRY, please!" LOL! nt

[pipoman]

37. Let's see

Atlanta to Sacramento, huh? Five hours in tolerable inconvenience or 37 hours behind the wheel of a car..help yourself, I'll take the 5 hours of slight discomfort without even thinking about it.

[madmom]

85. Prop your laptop or book on top of her head, or get one of those wire

locker shelves to set up over the head, that way they will also have light blocked for them.:think: :rofl:

[LisaL]

13. If the chair wasn't meant to be reclined, why incorporate

the reclining feature into a chair? Since the chair reclines than a passenger should be able to use that feature unless it's during take off or landing when instructed to return chair to the upright position.

[hlthe2b]

28. Because the chair manufacturers did not intend the airlines

to incorporate so little space between them. Reclining features made sense a couple of decades or so back, when the airlines had not yet turned their flying cylinders into cattle cars.

[crazylikafox]

57. bingo. correct answer.

These seats were never designed to be so close together. I'm a small person, and my knees always touch the seat in front of me even when it's not reclined. It's ridiculous.

[blondeatlast]

96. Exactly. nt

[Amaril]

113. Some seats still have ashtrays in the arms

Should passengers fell free to use that feature as well? After all, if it wasn't meant to be used then it would be there.

[enlightenment]

14. I think they recline too far.

The seats are designed for the days when there was considerably more space between seats. Reclining a little bit, just enough to get out of the straight up and down posture is doable, slightly more comfortable than completely upright, and considerate of the passenger behind you. Reclining as far as the seat will go is rude.

Assaulting someone for doing it is also rude.

Civil society is dead, I'm afraid.

[AndyTiedye]

43. Last Plane I Was On, They Only Reclined 4 Inches, You Think That's Too Much??

[HughBeaumont]

124. It is when you have absolutely no leg room even when there's no reclining happening.

Reclining means you're pretty much sandwiched and have zero personal space on modern flying sardine cans. That's what most of the pro-recliners don't seem to get. Reclining is inconsiderate for the person behind you that has no space to begin with.

[Phentex]

78. I think that sums it up...

all the way around.

[snagglepuss]

16. East solution: airlines should section the plane into recliner and non-recliner.

Problems arise when the two groups aren't separated.

[some guy]

70. What's your West solution?

:P

Sorry, but I chose not to resist.

I don't disapprove of your idea.

[Phentex]

77. Hammocks...

Everyone lies down for the flight. :)

[georgettedams]

152. Hammocks

Well dear, the best way to find sun and hammocks - is to join the Navy - then you'll have some pals as well!


http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/zetaclear-review-where-to-buy-zeta-clear-2178384.html

[blondeatlast]

97. Reminds me of a blonde joke I wonce heard (and love--and I'm allowed

to enjoy blonde jokes!)

A Blonde gets on an airplane and sits down in the first class section. The flight attendant tells her she must move to coach because she doesn't have a first class ticket. The Blonde replies, "I'm Blonde, I'm smart and I have a good job and I'm staying in first class until we reach New York." The FA gets the head FA who goes up to the Blonde and whispers in her ear. She immediately gets up and goes to her seat in the coach section. The FAs ask the head FA what she said to get her to move. The head FA replies, "I told her the front half of the airplane was going to Newark."

[blueamy66]

138. I may be blonde,

but I can spell once correctly.

[-..__...]

22. Two axioms of life...

never fuck with the person who writes your paycheck...

never fuck with the person who prepares your food.

I'll add a third and say; never fuck with the person sitting (or otherwise), behind you.

Admittedly... I haven't flown in at least 26 years, but if some asshat insisted on reclining his/her seat in my space, I
would have made their trip as miserable as possible (short of any criminal or illegal acts)... repeatedly bump/kick/nudge their seat...
talk to them (or myself), non-stop... etc.

[Toucano]

24. A finger puppet show above their head would be fun.

Nice to know there are options.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

32. I'd recline my seat, lean forward, and just leave it reclined.

Then I don't have to feel your "bumps" and my headphones & laptop would easily keep my attention. I've done it before... works wonders at pissing people off (reclining a seatback and not even using it.)

[hlthe2b]

36. Aren't you just a joy....

I guess you must just consider those who try to be considerate of others around them, simpletons or dupes...:eyes:

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

38. Certainly not...

But I do consider someone that expects me to sit at a 90 degree angle on a cramped flight for a few hours a dumbass. Reclining seats are a feature of the aircraft, I paid for that seat and it's features, I have a right to use them if it makes me more comfortable.

[pnwmom]

45. I think you should pay for a seat in First Class and recline all you like.

You won't be bothering anyone else in First Class.

But in the rest of the plane, they should fix all the seats so they only recline a couple inches.

[-..__...]

49. Do you wear nose plugs as well?

I eat raw garlic and onions, smoke, a heavy breather and never brush my teeth :P

[LanternWaste]

123. I imagine you have quite a stockpile of petulant little tricks...

"works wonders at pissing people off..."

I imagine you have quite a stockpile of petulant little tricks to do just that under almost any occasion.

[Toucano]

23. Do the seats recline that much?

It's been a few years, actually, but I seem to recall obtaining no additional comfort from the so-called reclined position.

It was like 2 inches or something.

[Liberal_in_LA]

29. they recline quite a bit

[pipi_k]

33. No need to be violent about it...

If I had someone reclining their seat in my lap, I would suddenly come down with one of my allergy attacks...

much coughing and sneezing

no time to cover my mouth...oops....sorry...

:evilgrin:

[AndyTiedye]

39. Ask for an Exit Row or a Bulkhead Row Then

Reclining seats are a feature of the aircraft. You can look up exactly how far the seat on your aircraft will recline on sites like http://www.seatguru.com

I am a big fan of reclining seats. The more recline the better. Being forced to sit bolt-upright for hours is even more uncomfortable than air travel normally is.
The people in front of me usually recline their seats as soon as the plane takes off, and so do I. Net change in peronal space, 0.

Claustrophobic passengers should request an exit or bulkhead row. A bulkhead row has no seats in front of it, and the seats in front of an exit row do not recline.
Either has substantially more leg room than other seats in economy.

[Dappleganger]

59. Airlines are charging extra for that now.

[tomm2thumbs]

41. not in the back row of the plane - I always check to be sure I didn't get that seat

I think you get 1" of recline - or maybe that is just the give from the foam cushion

[RKP5637]

46. When I "used" to fly I would look over my shoulder a bit and recline just a little. Often

the person behind me was reclined, so no difficulty. Then again, I've flown on flights sandwiched between two people and someones head back in my chest, frankly, claustrophobic. Somehow civility has left the English language.

[X_Digger]

47. Yes, it is.

I'm 6'3" tall. I refuse to sit bolt upright for 3+ hours. I paid for that 4" of recline, I'll damned well use it.

[pnwmom]

50. But the person behind you might have even longer legs

squeezed up against the back of your seat already. And that person paid for the space in which to put his knees.

[X_Digger]

79. They paid the same $189 I did. Let em recline, too. n/t

[pnwmom]

103. And when that person is in the back row which doesn't recline?

shouldn't you then not recline your seat into that person's space?

And since you can't recline, shouldn't the person in front of you not recline either?

If the plane is full, as long as the person in the back can't recline, no one should be reclining.

[X_Digger]

105. So we go by the lowest common denominator?

Lovely. Tyranny of mendacity.

Sucks to be them.

Don't like it? Complain to the airline.

[Gaedel]

89. I paid for the seat back table with my ticket.

and if I choose to keep fiddling with it and pulling on it and using my knees in the seatback, I can do that.

[X_Digger]

107. Feel free.

I weigh 260lbs. Your knees aren't going to budge my reclined seat.

[pnwmom]

108. They might do a pretty good job of "nudging" you through the seatback.

Over and over again.

[X_Digger]

109. A little to the left.. ahh, that's better. That's the spot.

I fly about twice a month. Nothing you can do short of assault is going to bother me. I've seen / heard / experienced it all.

Enjoy being pissed off, my kindle and / or ipad will keep me occupied.

[pnwmom]

119. So you're not the wuss who turned around and complained

that my feet were shaking the floor under his seat?

Who turned red when I said I have to exercise my feet because I'd gotten a blood clot on the last flight I'd taken?

Flying is a pain.

[X_Digger]

125. Nope.. I've had babies spew on me, kids yelling in my ears..

.. 350lb men with plumber's cracks stick their asses in my face..

Flying is a pain, and I refuse to let sanctimonious concern ninnies make it any more uncomfortable.

[Ezlivin]

142. I'm 6'7" and in a wheelchair....

So I've written off flying altogether. It is a miserable experience when your head is six inches above the headrest and your knees are touching the seat in front.

Not to mention the inability to get up and use the restroom.

Just last month the Paralyzed Veterans of America published a long article on the experiences of disabled travelers. It was filled with horror stories. Nothing quite like landing at an airport only to be told that they "forgot" your wheelchair at the terminal. (This happened to me flying between Dallas and Cleveland.) No wheelchair-no mobility. Nothing quite as scary as watching a stranger walk away, pushing your multi-thousand dollar wheelchair out of sight.

The irony of this? I earned my pilot's license and would fly my wheelchair and myself around the local skies. Too bad the cost of renting an aircraft is so high, not to mention the cost of av-gas. Sigh.

[GCP]

48. OMG - I remember when flying wasn't a contact sport

I was going to say a 'thank you' to the Blessed St Ronnie Raygun for de-regulating the airlines, but actually I believe that was Carter.
But even in the 1980s, people weren't treated like steerage passengers in the 1900s. What's next, having people stacked like firewood on the slave ships?



Corporatism will be the death of us unless we start fighting back.

[SheilaT]

53. Oh, for chrissakes, don't

give the airlines any ideas!

[buzzard]

54. reclining seats

I have not posted here for months but had to respond to this, I think airlines have made seat and recline paramaters ridiculous for passenger comfort, if you offer reclining seats airlines should take into account the person behind you, my son has had 2 flights recently where the person in front reclined and damaged his laptop he feels like he has bad karma at this point but in reality if you offer reclining seats should you really not be expected to use this feature, and if not why offer it?

[pnwmom]

56. I only use the feature when there's no one behind me. n/t

[mackdaddy]

55. People in reclined into my face makes me sneeze...

Amazing how fast the person puts up their seat when a big sneeze blows their hair up into their face.



You used to be able to offer them a shave and a hair cut, but the TSA does not let you have a blade or scissors any more.

[B Calm]

120. Ha Ha Ha Ha. . Best reply in whole thread!!!

[B Calm]

121. Dip your fingers in a glass of water and flick them forward the same time you sneeze.

That will do the trick!

[howaboutme]

137. It isn't just an annoyance, reclined seats are dangerous

The whole issue is about consideration of others. If one has no consideration then you do what makes you happy. You take care of number one first.

The way they cram us into airplanes there should be only minimal reclining of these seats so that passengers can move their legs throughout the flight. Immobility creates a dangerous situation with embolisms. This guy who supposedly assaulted the individual who reclined his seat should claim self defense. Perhaps there should be a class action suit because the airlines are creating a known dangerous condition.

There was a time I really enjoyed flying, and I would still enjoy it if I as flying around subsidized on the taxpayer dime like many of the wealthiest most influential Americans using general aviation or military. They don't have parking hassle, no security, no cattle chutes, no strip search. When it comes to the elite and their Leer Jets and general aviation, remember that your airline tickets subsidize the true cost of general aviation.

[taught_me_patience]

60. I recline and don't feel bad about it one bit

two hours of sitting upright and my neck feels like shit. I've had one person complain about it and I completely ignored her.

[customerserviceguy]

63. Why don't we put the blame where it belongs?

And that would be the airlines, who manage to figure out the sardine pack that is cattle class on most aircraft these days.

On my last trip, I road in steerage, and the guy in front reclined his seat, but that mainly screwed up the angle on the Direct TV in his seatback. On the way out, my lady found a great deal for us to use frequent flier miles to get first class. It was the very first time I'd ever been there, and I have to tell you, I'm never going back to coach again, no matter what it costs. The back of the plane has the shittiest seats, butt vices when your middle age spread starts. And the flight attendant didn't even have any free snacks for us, in first class, they actively watch to see when you're done with your bag of kettle cooked potato chips, or your margarita, and can't wait to refill you.

[Gormy Cuss]

146. The airlines claim that we're to blame because passengers demand low fares.

That's a bullshit excuse, but that's what they claim.

I recently upgraded to First Class for a coast-to-coast flight and was stunned by how much better I felt at the end of it because I hadn't spent the whole flight jostling with my neighbor for arm rest space, having the seat in front of me reclined into my lap, dealing with overworked flight attendants who seemed peeved when anyone in economy requested anything, and all of the other amenities of being squeezed into steerage.


If I could afford it I'd sit up front every time.

[customerserviceguy]

151. I'm going to figure out how to afford it

One of my lady's friends says that she buys the coach ticket, and uses frequent flier miles to upgrade to first class. Since there are ways of getting miles from things other than flying, that bears looking at.

[Greyhound]

64. So because they don't believe they can do anything about the airlines

who've crammed them in like stock animals, they feel justified in assaulting another person?

I guess you can't fix stupid.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. There's a button, there's an announcement at the end to "put your seat backs up"

People should not be surprised when the person in front of them puts the seat back. It's how the thing works.

[JCMach1]

66. Here's the deal and keep in mind I take LONG LONG flights. If the person in front of me

puts their seat back, I have to put mine back because otherwise I big as legs get in the way... Even then, I still have to pad my knees with a pillow or blanket unless I want to be crippled when I arrive.

My only pet peeve are the idiots who insist on keeping it back the whole flight even if they are awake and/or eating.


Recently on a flight from Nairobi, I had a seat where if your leg barely touched the button, the seat goes flying back! Arg!


The absolute worst though is on some airlines, the final row of seat DO NOT RECLINE. Try that on a trans-atlantic, or trans-continental flight.

[pinboy3niner]

67. I would've grabbed his LEFT ear

But that's just me... :)

[liberalhistorian]

84. That passenger could have moved if he didn't

like it, as the reclining man whom he attacked suggested, there were empty seats nearby. He just chose to be an ass.

[Obamanaut]

69. Have all seats like the ones in the back row - the ones that don't

recline - problem solved. No one is different from anyone else.

[ZombieHorde]

73. I just curl up in the lap of the person sitting behind me. Who doesn't like to cuddle strange men?nt

[Golden Raisin]

74. Flying today is such a delight.

On the ground: endless waits, lines, kiosks instead of human employees, search indignities getting worse and more intrusive by the day, landing and waiting hours on the tarmac unable to deplane because "there's no gate", and a general proto-fascist, big-brother atmosphere.
In the air: Unless you are in Business/First you're "riding the dog" as in Greyhound bus. And that's an insult to buses.

[mainer]

76. those with back issues may need to recline just to not be in pain

Are we going to force them to fly cross-country in agony?

[Renew Deal]

80. I try to be aware of the person behind me, but if I want to recline...I recline.

I hear that reclining air seats is a common way of smashing laptops.

[liberalhistorian]

81. Hell, yes, it is. Those seats are uncomfortable enough

that I simply can't fly unless I do recline them. I paid for the fucking seat, I'm gonna use its one limited amenity. You don't wanna put up with people using their own seats they paid for in the way they prefer? Then don't get on a fucking plane.

[reformist2]

86. Can't they create recline and no-recline zones?

[HughBeaumont]

87. Well, it is . . .

. . . but then again, I'm not a completely oblivious inconsiderate sumg "it's all about me" motherfucker who cares not one shit about the personal-space invasion of those behind them. If there's someone behind you, don't fucking recline, you stupid shit. It's called common courtesy, goddamnit.

Just like this bitch motherfucker ahead of me on a hot flight to Vegas this summer reclined all the way back into my already squished-beyond-repair personal space. They do the same damned thing on busses going to work; it fucking sucks there and it sucks in the air.

That being said, it's LONG past time for airlines to build more passenger-friendly planes.

[blondeatlast]

98. "It's called common courtesy, goddamnit. " Sorry, but I am absolutely

:rofl:ing with a stomach cramp at that phrase--even if I agree with the sentiment!

OMG, I can't stop! :hi:

[HughBeaumont]

104. It's sort of the intent.

:rofl:

But really, it's annoying when they don't even ask; they just do, assuming I'm completely OK with it. It's especially annoying on busses home from work - I ride in a coach bus and there's barely any space as it is. But that don't stop the "all-about-Nummer-ONE!" shits, and these things recline pretty far back; even farther back than plane seats do. The last thing I want to look at after a long slog at the cubefarm is some dandruff-laden bastard's combover.

[blondeatlast]

110. Oh, I sympathize--and as a non-recliner myself (maybe an inch)

I completely agree. The absolute worst was an overseas to KL on Maylasian Airlines; even reclining a tiny bit put the person in my face.

My connecting flight home was on Southwest--and I'm not kidding, there was more legroom on SW! 16 hours of near hell. However, I loved Malaysia once I arrived.

[Recursion]

88. I don't mind reclining per se, though I don't do it

What I really, really hate is when I'm using my laptop on the traytable and the guy in front of me doesn't just recline but violently pushes back several times, apparently in an attempt to get every last possible millimeter of reclination he can get. Because, you know, that's going to make the seat comfortable...

Same problem on Bolt Bus/Megabus, too.

[OrwellwasRight]

90. Yes, if your seat reclines.

I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about. The trays are made to move with the seat, so you certainly can use them, your book, and your laptop when the person in front of you reclines. The seats only recline 4 inches, so certainly no one's head is in anyone's lap. If you want the person in front of you not to recline, you should pay them for the privilege. If you're not willing to, let them be.

[pnwmom]

102. If you want to recline into someone's space, YOU should pay them

for the privilege.

There's no reason that the boundaries of the space you "rent" should be measured at anything less than a 90 degree angle from the floor, or be anything different than the same space you must sit in for takeoff and landing -- i.e., the vertical space that corresponds to an upright seat. When you recline beyond the confines of that vertical space, you're intruding into someone else's space. If anyone pays anything for the "privilege," it should be you.

[Warren DeMontague]

116. Then why do the seats recline? Why do they have an announcement to put the seats back up?

Sorry. Reclining the seat is part of the deal.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

134. It's a feature of the aircraft that is ALREADY PAID FOR.

I pay for my seat and have every right to recline it. Your personal space only begins after the point of the seat in front of you in the fully reclined position. It's a feature of the airliner, people pay for such features with the price of the ticket, and it is what it is. Alternatively, feel free to recline your own seat and use the space alotted to you for which you paid.

[OrwellwasRight]

144. It is not "their" space.

You paid for a seat, your seat reclines, therefore it is your right. If they want to claim your reclining space, they are the ones asking for an extra privilege.

[jberryhill]

91. Yes - frequent topic at flyertalk

The bottom line is that you don't know what spinal or other condition the person in front of you has.

If the seat is capable of reclining, you are entitled to recline.

I had someone ask me on a flight last week, and I said "that's what the button is for".

A lot of folks are talking about "courtesy" here, but my sense of courtesy extends to the person in front of me. If they want to recline, they are welcome to do so.

[ThatsMyBarack]

94. The seat in front of me is always reclined...

When I have to get something out of my backpack which is squished under the seat. It is impossible to reach down and fish it out without bumping the person sitting next to me.

I really should consider ponying up more $ for the extra legroom.

[GSLevel9]

100. everyone may have the RIGHT to recline...

but it's rude to squish the person behind you. It's like farting and belching, it's not illegal but you can display a lot about your character.

[ddeclue]

101. I fly regularly and I don't usually recline unless I am in first class or "even more legroom"

or I am flying on JetBlue which has better than average space or the seat behind me is empty.

[Initech]

112. I almost had a laptop broken because some asshole reclined too far back in his seat.

And rather forcefully I might add.

[callous taoboy]

114. I'm inclined to recline. To recline is sublime.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. I'll have a club soda

with lime.

[callous taoboy]

127. I'd rather be supine, so at lest let me recline. It's on my dime.

[callous taoboy]

128. There once was an anti-recline Nazi on Jet Blue....

[LanternWaste]

122. My brother and I had the precise same types of confrontations in the car

I think when we begin discussing mere convenience and simple comfort in the context of rights, it leads me to believe the American electorate is beginning to jump the shark.

My brother and I had the precise same types of confrontations in the car... when we were seven. Thin skinned adults hiding behind rights and righteous rage to better affect the personalities of a seven year old...

(and before one's own little hackles get raised, I make no implication as to which (or both?) individual needs a time out and a stern lecture by the one of the ever decreasing number of adults left in this country.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

126. i have never had this problem because i DEFEND

Seriously. My knees are already up against the seat in front of me. I just slink down in my seat a little, so that my knees put gentle pressure on the seat in front of me. If the person in front is rude enough to try to recline, which about half the time they are, they soon realize they are not going anywhere.

The most anybody has ever reclined on me is probably a couple of centimeters, and that was the first time before I learned how to do it properly.

Anyone else can feel free to try my move. It's a good move. If you're that sleepy, you can sleep sitting up. If you're not that sleepy, you don't need to sleep. Read a book or do something useful with your dull existence that doesn't involve making yourself a tiny bit more comfortable while making someone else a lot more uncomfortable..

[jberryhill]

132. Have you ever had a spinal problem?

I have, and if you sit behind me, I will have the attendant require you to permit me to recline. I'm sorry you find my existence dull, but you don't have my back problems.

The attendant will back up the person seeking to recline, btw.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

133. and i assume that if someone were to make that big of a deal about it

there would actually be a reason why they would need to recline. Or, they could just tell me that. And then there would be no problem. There are a lot of people reclining, and a very few people with serious problems. I'm more than willing to accommodate people who need accommodation. The simple matter is, even without really trying, my knees are already pretty much up against the back seat. When someone reclines, I am literally stuck. Can't move. I have long legs. Planes are awful for people with long legs, or for people who are a little taller than average.

Now, I don't really even fly anymore. I flew when I went to college across the country and had to come home during breaks. That's my way of accommodating people who need to recline even though they don't. Now I mostly take trains and buses if I have to travel, and I find the people to be of a higher class in general, and really haven't had the same kind of annoyances as I did on planes. Plus it's actually a lot more comfortable if you live in a part of the country with good train service (of which there isn't a lot, granted). I can't really see it being a problem again unless I ever have a job that makes me fly.

[bettyellen]

136. so you lile to pull sneaky shit preventing other people from reclining, but if they have

a need to it, they should just be upfront about it? not surised you;re expecting them to be the better person, LOL

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

140. it's not really sneaky

Like I said my knees are pretty much up against the back of their seats anyway. If they try to recline, they would gain a couple of centimeters at absolute most, and in essence lock me into place and I would not be able to move at all....like, seriously, if I had to get up to go to the bathroom I would have to ask them to move their seat back up so I could unlock myself. This is what happened the first time I ever flew. It was really awkward, and one of the reasons I defend.

I don't think you read my original post. Yeah, if someone has a SPINAL CONDITION, I expect them to let me know that there is a problem so that I don't cause them SPINAL DAMAGE. If they don't have a spinal condition, then I expect to not be locked into place. My being able to physically move is more important than a person who has no problems whatsoever with anything on a plane being able to "recline" so they can be even more comfortable. I'm already at a severe disadvantage to them. Especially on the tiny planes I used to have to fly into Harrisburg (small airport) on. If someone has a spinal condition, then they're at a disadvantage to me, and I don't mind accommodating them. I'm not going to assume people, especially young, healthy looking people have problems with them. If that's wrong of me, then I'll accept being wrong. At least I won't be firmly locked into place, not being able to move without asking the reclining person to unrecline so I can adjust when my legs fall asleep or I get a charlie horse.

[bettyellen]

141. so you want a doctors note about a medical problem and you'll decide if it's serious enough for you

to allow them to use the seat they paid for? Are you serious? I think that;s up to the airline. If recling yourself is not enough- you have greater needs than every other passenger on the plane, then you need to pay extra for first class or a bulkhead, or arrange to go another way. I have yet to be on an overnight flight where most passengers do not use the recline. There;s a reaon for it, it;s nost comfortable for the long flight for most people. The airlnes are at fault here, not fellow passengers who shouldn;t be expected to sit bolt upright.
And thanks for the tip, next time my set doesn;t recline, I'll check out more carefully why.

[FamousBlueRaincoat]

143. again

I never said anything about a doctor's note. Is this bizarro world or something? Is this where I have ended up? In a comic book?

I have never been on an overnight flight period. I've been on like 3-4 hour flights. I didn't pay for the ticket - I was a poor college student, my rent and tuition was paid in student loans that I'll still be paying back for 15 years. I worked a crappy part time job to pay for groceries. I took two trips a year, one for christmas and one for my birthday. They were my only presents, and still more than my parents could really afford, but it was a lot of fun to spend time with them and I appreciated the ticket. I wasn't going to demand that they spend money they didn't have on an even more expensive ticket.

I have long legs. Sorry. THEY TOUCH THE BACK OF THE NEXT SEAT WITHOUT ME DOING ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY. I guess I'll go amputate them or something? You're ignored.

[tblue37]

130. It didn't used to be that big a problem, but as the airlines cram more seats into

less space, no normal human being has room to do anything. There should be enough room for a reasonable amount of recline, but in reality there is not.

[Pavulon]

147. Holy Shit, lots of comments. Yes, but not on a persons laptop.

I will recline them only if I am going to sleep. I make every effort to avoid it. If I must I usually peek behind to be sure the person does not have a laptop screen against the seat and recline slowly.

As for first class, lots of business travels like me are not able to buy first or business class without conditions. Paying out of pocket is not an options if you fly 2 trips or more a month.

[Paladin]

150. It Makes All The Difference To Me If People Ask First.

I never, ever say no to somebody seated in front of me on a plane who says he or she needs to put their seat back. Infinitely more considerate than their simply hitting the button and letting the seat slam back into my knees.

By the way---in the course of countless flights over the years, that sort of courtesy has been extended to me exactly....twice. Bruised knees are just part of the joys of flying, these days.....