Are we not allowed to get angry anymore?

[Klukie]

Anger can be a healthy and necessary outlet in times of trouble, yet my anger at this sellout tax bullshit is called unacceptable and "in the way" of real solutions!

[donco6]

1. It's in the way of those who support tax cuts for the wealthy, for sure.

And we all know who they are.

[Bluerthanblue]

24. we do?

can you elaborate? Or is this just a way of venting some anger against "them"?

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Klukie]

11. You know...I am a reasonable middle of the road type of person

one who is very solution minded.....and this is not a real solution. I am truly pissed!!!

[Bluerthanblue]

21. anger isn't a solution either. It's an emotion.

You can't avoid it- but you can channel it and if you are willing, learn from it.

If you are looking for people to tell you your anger is good, is it possible you are trying to avoid that nagging feeling that you are stepping over some line? That what you are feeling, and what you are doing as a result aren't ..ok?

I'm not telling you not to be angry- What are you asking for exactly?

[Klukie]

26. I am not looking for someone to tell me it is good...but to acknowledge that is necessary

at certain moments. I am reacting with anger, not attacking with anger. Maybe someone else stepped over the line which was what caused my anger. I am not a naturally angry person...most times I only get angry when I sense an injustice.

[Bluerthanblue]

45. I'm not sure that it's necessary-

I think it just "is".

People can do what needs to be done without anger motivating them. And I don't believe people can control when or if anger surges up inside of us. It's automatic. The idea that it only rises when an injustice occurs sounds good, but I'm not so sure that it's honest.

Are you sure you aren't looking for someone to tell you it's good? that the feelings you are experiencing are ok because someone else did something to you that causes you to feel what your feeling?

People get angry when they don't get their way. Sometimes that is as the result of an injustice, and sometimes it is simply a fact of life. When we can't have or do or achieve something it usually makes us angry. Is it always an "injustice" that keeps us from our desire? Is it always someones 'fault'? Is it always someone ELSE's fault?

I'm angry that the rich will get a tax break.
Hell, I'm angry that people ARE rich. Some would have you believe that those who are wealthy "earned" what they have, but very often that just isn't true.
I've known many people who have worked themselves to death for a fraction of the money that someone like- GW Bush has.
Does a CEO really put more personal effort into something than a cleaning lady or a waitress or a laborer does? REALLY?

I'm angry that the way the republcans are able to mobilize and cripple any progress that we try to make- that the media manipulates the message- all kinds of things.

It's the personal attacks that I object to- and the blanket condemnations that are going on around here. People who post things like "Obama is like a wife-beater" (which was posted yesterday) or that he just wants us to "bend over and take it"-
that isn't anger that does anyone any good. It spreads hatred and discord. It's destructive and disruptive.

I'm no saint- I'm sorry to run on like this. Maybe I'm just a dreamer who is looking for nirvana.

I hope you find relief and peace. I hope we all do.

[Klukie]

51. Anger is a necessary emotion that provokes a impassioned response to injustice

without it, the injustice will probably continue. Sometimes personal attacks are the only way to get through to people and strip them down to their raw core. I would never pull any punches with a racist and calling someone a racist , whether it is in anger or not, could be construed as a personal attack. Maybe if the peacemakers would dig down deep and try on a little impassioned anger and fight a little dirtier, we would be further along in our progress.

[BrendaBrick]

61. Damn Skippy!

I'm with you Klukie 110%! Anger is just the messenger. It says... somethin' just ain't right here! Somethin' somethin' just ain't QUITE on the square! (you know?)

I don't like to pull any punches either if I can possibly help it and to tell you the truth, have pretty much *played by the rules* for most of my life.....but in this current climate where everyone (from Wall Street to the White House) seems to be NOT ONLY beyond reproach in any way, shape or form (and probably secretly laughs about it as to our Puritan naivete') I say....fight fire with fire by cracky!!!!!

[bobbolink]

55. "It's the personal attacks that I object to-"

Funny, I don't remember you objecting to them when it was *us* who were getting attacked.

I still don't hear you objecting to Obama attacking *us* and making *us* the "thems" who are to blame for his sad and unnecessary electoral losses.

Since you keep saying you want peace, and that anger isn't necessary, maybe it would be a good idea to look at where it actually began..... with Obama supporters who can't stand any criticism.

[bigwillq]

3. Of course we are!

Don't let anyone tell you differently.

K and R

[TBF]

4. I believe we are supposed to honor and serve the rich. nt

[Occam Bandage]

5. What's this "allowed" business?

You can do whatever you like. It might be counterproductive, but you can do it all the same.

[Hello_Kitty]

6. I was just thinking the same thing this morning.

Progressives are being silenced and marginalized by the Dem establishment. It's like whatever GOP lite policy they bring out we have to shut up and pretend we like it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. Yeah, it's all about you

:eyes:

[Hello_Kitty]

9. This is exactly what the OP is talking about.

The condescension and disdain.

[bobbolink]

15. But that condescension and disdain provide so many solutions, donchaknow.....

[Bluerthanblue]

17. and sarcasm is part of the problem-

sorry Bobbolink- I love and admire you, but we are only hurting ourselves imo.

I understand anger and it's effects more than I wish I did.

I've learned to stop running from it, and face it. And I'm trying to learn to express it in a healthy way, which is so difficult.

What is happening on DU isn't good for anyone. I care about all of us.

peace~

[bobbolink]

25. "Love" doesn't reach out and slap the loved one.

Along with many other DUers, I was an abused wife. One of the things we KNOW from that abusive experience is that it STARTS with ugly, demeaning words.

Telling us to swallow the ugly, demeaning words is abusive itself.

I appreciate your kind words, but if you TRULY "admire" me, then you must realize it comes from my own spirit of no longer taking ugly shit from those who would stomp on me.

One person risked herself by talking about being angry and being stomped for it. THAT deserves compassion and caring, NOT more putdowns.

I will continue to speak up for those who are being stomped on, in whatever way. Sometimes it is repression of emotions. That is also abuse, and needs to stop.

Maybe it is time to have a talk with those on *your* side who continue to demean those who disagree with Obama, and are sick at heart at what is happening in this country due to his captitulation to the RW.

[Bluerthanblue]

41. Bobbolink, I too

was in an abusive marriage- which almost cost me my life, and if it hadn't been for some very caring friends I would also have lost my children as I recovered. My children and I have lived in poverty ever since, my youngest was 18mos. old- he's 17now.

I was placed in family foster care because of abuse, returned home and lived in a very troubled environment until I ran away the age of 17. I know anger, and it's side-effects all to well.

I DO love you- I love your passion, your resilience, your focus, your courage and your willingness to use your voice for the good of others. There are times when I don't like what you say, or how you go about saying it, but that doesn't alter my love for YOU-Bobolink the person.

If you can only see this through the lens of "us" and "them" and you need to put me on the 'them' side because I will speak out when people use their anger as a platform to demean and discredit Pres. Obama as a person.

Those who attack and stretch their complaints to claim that he is something other than the good, patient, kind man that I know him to be- I'd feel sad, but it's your decision to make.

I won't stop loving you, I will continue to speak up when people use their anger abusively. Using anger to marginalize and be-little people who aren't "like" you is wrong. I've gotten angry on here and acted like an ass many a time. I try and recognize it when I do, and apologize and I've been called out on it by people who care- I want to do better. To BE better.

We ALL have our reasons for being the people we are.
I wish you well-
I was given this quote from Longfellow and pass it on to you:
“If we could read the secret history of our enemies, we should find in each man's life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility”

peace~
blu

[bobbolink]

42. What you fail to recognize is that *WE* were "themed"! I don't remember seeing you using your

principles *then* and standing up for us taking the shitstorm of blame, including the blame for the unnecessary loss of the last election.

In fact, I really don't remember your name on very many of my poverty posts.... if you are so supportive, why are you leaving me to twist alone with it?

You can have whatever view of Obama you wish. I am on the receiving end of his own ANGER, and it will literally kill me. I have written about that, too, but it didn't get a response from you, let alone a supportive one.

The time has come to recognize that finally the tide has turned, and your side is no longer in the majority... which is why your side is resorting to the verbal violence against those of us who have had it.

If you truly "love" me, then you will come to my support when I get the ugliness here that I have gotten... as well as others here who have been raked over the coals verbally. (And I am not the only one who has received a death threat, either.)

If you have that background in abuse, then you KNOW that captitulation by one side does NOT create "peace". Giving the bullies what they want does NOT make the bullies back off.... it increases their demands.

We have had it not only with Obama's cozying up to the bullies, but with his side ANGRILY denouncing us, from "fucking retards" on to Obama's latest condemnation of us. If you expect me to swallow that in the name of "peace", then your view of abuse is very different from mine.

When I see you also speak out to those who are sarcastic and ugly to me and others, then I will take you more seriously.

[Bluerthanblue]

49. -

I could go through this point by point but what would be the point?

If you choose to see me as the enemy- if I don't measure up to your standards or do what you want me to do, and choose to class me as "one of them" there is little I can say or do to change that.

The anger that you feel is real, and is yours. I can't tell you what to do with it, or not to feel it.

I can choose to look beyond it and see a person that I believe to be worthy of love and not respond with anger and hurtful words.

peace~

(edited to add this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/searchresults.html?q=bobbolink+bluerthanblue&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&domains=democraticunderground.com&client=pub-7805397860504090&forid=1&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&cof=GALT%3A%23008000%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%23336699%3BVLC%3A663399%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFFF%3BLBGC%3A336699%3BALC%3A0000FF%3BLC%3A0000FF%3BT%3A000000%3BGFNT%3A0000FF%3BGIMP%3A0000FF%3BFORID%3A11&hl=en)

[bobbolink]

52. You want me to "change"... that is your buzzword, still. Yet, you REFUSE to look at the pain *I*

and others feel when we have been THEMED and blamed.

When you are ready to deal with that, then we can talk. Until then, you insist on painting me as the one at fault, (I expect too much, is now your theme), and I have been blamed and abused all my life, and have opted out of that.

I again suggest if you truly want "peace", you focus your efforts on those on your side who insist on blaming and castigating us.

[Bluerthanblue]

56. I'm not asking you for anything Bobbolink-

I wasn't when I posted my first response to you in this post and I'm not now.

In your response to me you questioned my ability to 'love' you and commented on the fact that you don't recall my support of you on here- You intimated that my history was questionable because I don't respond in ways that you envision an abused person should respond.

I'm not asking you to change to please me. Can you say the same?

The world is a big place- we need to learn how to live together in peace.

[bobbolink]

57. Stop trying to make me the villain.

It isn't working, and I am done with this.

Your pleas for "peace", AGAIN, don't include the attacks from the conservaDems.

I refuse to get dragged into a battle.... and that is what it seems you want.

I won't ask you for any help on poverty in the future... obviously, it goes against your grain. So be it.

You have a fine life, and blessings on you.

Bye now..

The last word is yours... "peace" ?

[polmaven]

33. And you don't think

that works both ways?

[Davis_X_Machina]

8. You are not allowed...

...to only get angry.

[Autumn]

10. The anger over this is very healthy.

just keep in mind that those who feel this sellout tax bullshit is the real solution are the problem.

[femrap]

12. Anger tells you that an INJUSTICE

is taking place.

"May God/Goddess bless you with anger,
At injustice, oppression, and exploitation of people,
So that you many work for justice, freedom, and peace."

Anger scares the top 2%.

[Bluerthanblue]

18. anger can happen for many reasons, not only injustice-

working for justice freedom and peace is an excellent idea.

Managing anger is a skill- one that all people would do well to master.
Myself included.

:hi:

[Autumn]

20. Wonderful truth,

:yourock:

[bobbolink]

28. That is a beautiful quotation! Could you please tell me the source, if you know it?

Thanks!

[QC]

32. It's from a Franciscan blessing.

Here is Gene Robinson delivering it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1JyrWr0c6w

[Klukie]

31. You are so right!!

[Egnever]

35. Yea right

No one ever has missplaced anger.

[tridim]

13. It has long since become raw bashing, not anger.

EVERYONE here is angry about the GOP blackmail re: tax cuts for the rich, which still may not happen. EVERYONE.

[Bluerthanblue]

14. everyone gets angry. almost everyone I know IS angry-

it's what you DO with the anger that is the problem.

Sometimes what you do as a result of anger makes things MUCH worse.

Like smacking people around. Saying and doing things in the heat of the moment that cannot be taken back or undone.

"Anger(temper) is the weapon we hold by the blade" j.a.barrie

Telling someone not to be angry is foolish. Encouraging people to control their anger is a kindness.

[badtoworse]

16. I have negotiated numerous contracts over my career

I've rarely seen angry people wind up getting a good deal. Most times, there is no deal at all

[Klukie]

19. Well good thing that I am not negotiating the deal then...

because I am pissed. Maybe with all of your skills you can channel our anger into a calm tone and work out a real solution!

[Nite Owl]

22. It isn't unacceptable at all

but now it has to go somewhere. We have to do something constructive with the anger, organize and act. Whether it be a primary or calls or donating to organizations that help us get to true liberal goals it has to have a constructive outlet at some point. Real solutions is what we need and we are no where near that at present, we are going the other way!

[somone]

23. Anger is well earned

[Egnever]

27. Of course you're allowed to get angry

The problem is many are letting anger cloud their reasoning.

You call it a sell out yet I would be willing to bet you paid no attention to the fact that Obama asked congress to bring it to a vote without the top tax cuts and it failed. With taxes about to go up substantially and UI benefits also having been allowed to expire what is he supposed to do?

He cant get the middle tax cuts through by themselves he tried and it failed and the media largely ignored it. So much so that many here on DU are completely unaware the vote even happened.

What exactly is his course of action then?

Our economy is on the brink of collapse it wont take much to put us over the edge right now. letting middle class tax cuts expire right now is just a non starter, it will have an extremely detrimental effect on the economy when we need to be doing everything we can to prop it up.

What exactly is Obama supposed to do? Its not going to get any better once the puke house is sworn in it will only be harder.

[Klukie]

30. I was aware of all of those things you mentioned

What was he supposed to do? Place a bet on the will of the American people!!! Call the GOP's bluff, force their hand, and tell America exactly what he is doing. I guarantee that if he fights for it...he will get it. He didn't fight very hard.

[Egnever]

34. He had them vote on it

without the top cuts it failed.He talked about that failed vote. You are confusing the american people with congress.

He did call their bluff he had them take the vote nd not once in the senate but twice and it failed both times.

What more would you like him to do? He has been stumping on this issue since before he was elected...

[Klukie]

39. Okay...then continue to call their bluff ....Let them expire..

put the pubs on the defensive...make them come to the table!!! He doesn't have to push for this deal. He needs to lay the hammer down. His efforts were not bold. We need bold!!

[Egnever]

43. That would be fine if

The unemployment rate wasn't at almost 10% and the economy wasn't on the edge of collapse.

Unfortunately he doesn't have the luxury of just letting them expire. It will devastate our weakened economy at a time when we can least afford it. We NEED the stimulus the middle class tax cuts provide and we also NEED the unemployment benefits and the stimulous they provide right now.

Letting the system crash may seem attractive but I guarantee it would not be when it happened.

[hfojvt]

48. oh, nonsence Mr. Chicken Little

the sky is not gonna fall if taxes go up for people in January to April 2012. As far as stimulating the economy, you need to listen to what Republicans are saying, because they are demanding spending cuts for every dollar of tax cut. Considering that they control the house and are quite prepared to shut down the government until they get some deep spending cuts, what is that going to do to the economy?

Republicans have stalled unemployment extension every time, but then given in, so it does not seem like unemployment extension can only get passed if it is tied to tax cuts for the rich.

[Egnever]

58. "Republicans have stalled unemployment extension every time, but then given in"

I am sure the 99ers will be glad to hear this. Since they had their benefits extended and just dont know about it.

No the sky wont fall but it wont improve the current unemployemnt situation one iota if those taxes are left to expire. It will only do harm to an already weak economy.

[hfojvt]

47. "if at first you don't succeed

then just roll over and surrender."


Hmm, I may have misquoted that one. Is that how that saying goes?

It seems to me that we had the stronger position. Republicans were on record as having voted against tax cuts. They took the rich over the middle class. Instead of holding their feet to the fire for this, Obama also jumped in to give a tax cut for the rich. In fact, his "middle class" tax cuts that are sooooo important to him, much of the money goes to people in the top 20% with incomes greater than $80,000.

It just sounds like Bush all over again. "We have to vote for Plan A or people like hfojvt will pay $300 more in taxes." Well here is hfojvt saying screw plan A because most of the money does not goto people like me, it goes to people much wealthier. I would be surprised if even 25% of the total cost went to people below the median income. Yet it is US who are being used as the reason for this plan that provides so much more to people at the top.

[Individualist]

29. Ignore the DLC talking points.

[Egnever]

36. Yes ignorance is awesome!

Yay for ignorance!:puke:

[Egnever]

37. Yes ignorance is awesome!

Yay for ignorance!:puke:

[LoZoccolo]

38. Maybe you could show us how it is not in the way of real solutions. n/t

[stray cat]

40. Tea partiers are angry that a muslim is president

ie Uninformed anger is stupid. Real informed realistic anger is another matter.

[Gin]

44. I am angry that UI is attached to this give away for the rich....if we

oppose it..the unemployed say we don't care....what a friggin trap Obama has either made or fallen into....

[Cal Carpenter]

46. No. Civility trumps truth. Anger offends the sensibilities of the rich and the strivers

If you were a good, civil person you would be rich too. So shut up, be polite, and wait your turn, prole.

:sarcasm:

[Klukie]

53. Jefferson on the subject...

In truth, politeness is artificial good humor, it covers the natural want of it, and ends by rendering habitual a substitute nearly equivalent to the real virtue.
Thomas Jefferson

[AtomicKitten]

50. Knock yourself out. nt

[drlindaphd]

54. Of course it is OK to get angry, but...

anger does not solve anything and unchecked it can cause many problems, even become very destructive. Unchecked anger causes more harm than good. People are hurt, even killed. Anger can be a good starting point. It is a wake up call. If you never get angry, you are either depressed, broken, or dead.

But, to make progress you need action, and not action driven by something as unstable or wild as anger. It is time to engage your brain and not act with your emotions. As a professional psychologist I will give you some information on how to make anger more productive and perhaps accomplish more.

Anger is indeed, as some people have pointed out an emotion. Emotions are never right or wrong, they just are. No one can tell you that you are wrong for experiencing an emotion. It is your emotion, and you just feel it.

Underneath anger are three other feelings. Anger is always generated by one or more of these three underlying emotions. They are fear, hurt, and/or frustration. Unlike anger, it is possible to work with these emotions cognitively. If you can figure out which of these you are experiencing and the causes of the emotions, you can take action in a non-violent, productive manner.

Now, you can say that you already know what you are angry about and don't need this extra step. We are all angry about the Rethugs, taxes, etc. But I believe if you step back and use cognitive methods, you can be more creative in your actions against those people and things that have angered you. Maybe, just maybe, someone will come up with a creative, successful solution.

I do not believe that this creative thinking will occur in the heat of anger.

[Bluerthanblue]

59. thank your for this-

what you say makes sense, and is particularly helpful to me.

:hi:

[drlindaphd]

60. You are very welcome

I am really happy to have helped you. For me, that makes my life worthwhile. :hi:

[FrenchieCat]

62. Being angry and being stupid are not the same thing.....

at all.