Will Obama really end tax cuts for rich in 2012?

[Donnachaidh]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/2010/12/will_obama_make_good_on_vow_to.html


The fact that many liberals and Dems answer that question in the negative is perhaps the primary reason the White House is having so much trouble selling them on the tax cut deal. Obama has promised to do this, but libs and Dems just don't believe him.

Here's a case in point. As I reported earlier today, the White House is circulating a chart designed to prove that Obama and Dems got far more from the tax deal, despite extending the tax cuts for the rich. But now MoveOn, which is organizing against the tax deal, has responded with a chart of its own demonstrating the massive bonanza Republicans win over the next 10 years if you assume the tax cuts for the rich won't really be repealed in two years:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/plum-line/assets_c/2010/12/moveonchart-30860.html

The serious point that this chart gets at is that liberals and Dems just don't believe the tax cuts for the rich will ever expire, no matter how firm Obama's vow to have this fight again in 2012. As Ben Smith put it today, the extension of the high end cuts constitutes "moving a structural shift in the American tax system toward permanence, while the other large measures are much more temporary."

The deal's supporters will argue that Obama will of course want to have this fight. Arguing for an expiration of the high end cuts is the single best pushback Obama will be able to muster when Republicans start calling for spending cuts to reduce the deficit. What's more, 2012 is an election year. If he didn't take up the fight he'd be reneging on a campaign promise he made twice, once in 2008 and again in 2010. Opponents of the deal argue: Yeah, right. Obama and Dems are really going to raise taxes during an election?

More at the link ---

[Smarmie Doofus]

1. Of course not.

You remind me of the scene from "When Harry Met Sally":

carrie fischer: "I'm beginning to think he's never going to leave her."( i.e. her married lover's wife)
meg ryan:" *No one* thinks he's ever going to leave her."

[Luciferous]

2. no

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Nope, look at when they are supposed to expire

December of 2012... they are gonna expire MY FUCKING ASS!

Why this needs to be fought NOW.

[femrap]

20. Obama may well not even be

the President Elect come the end of 2012. He could well be voted out in November of 2012.

I don't understand WTF he's yammering about. If he extended the tax cuts of the Robber Barons 12 months or 18 months, it would be a campaign issue. He is making it NOT a campaign issue if HE is in fact planning on running again in 2012.

Or am I missing something somewhere? It's NOW OR NEVER to stop feeding the Robber Barons with more and more dollars.

Funny that MoveOn is going after Obama...especially given how soon in the primary season, they endorsed him.

What's that German word? Schrufen*^&%#$%^*????????

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. This is a tipping point

for both Obama and the country... how and what he choses to do will be critical

As is I don't expect him to win reelection... so perhaps he will realize this and step aside...

[femrap]

28. Maybe that's been the plan all along?

I still pinch myself when I see the video of him announcing the 'deal made behind closed doors.'

And I'm a 'purist?' Just f*cking astounding.

I'm going to pm you my 'Xmas Greeting for 2010.' Every year I come up with something to enclose in my card. This year, it's a song.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Thanks

[atreides1]

26. Nothing funny about MoveOn

Any organization can make a mistake!

It's the one that is willing to admit it made a mistake that has integrity.

[femrap]

30. They never admitted their

mistake on the early endorsement.

[jtown1123]

4. Ain't gonna happen.

[BzaDem]

5. He wouldn't be "raising the taxes durin an election." He would say "let the election results decide

the outcome."

There are many reasons for letting them expire in 2012 that don't apply to 2010. The big one is the economy.

[vi5]

14. And if the economy is good....

Do you not think that the tax cuts are going to get all the credit? At least in terms of the Republicans and the media? Or do you think everyone involved is going to go "Great, economy turned around. Nothing more to do here. Let's raise those upper tax rates."

[BzaDem]

18. It doesn't matter "what gets the credit." What matters is the election results, and what the next

President does.

If Obama wins re-election, he can stop the tax cuts by simply not signing a bill. This won't kill the economy presumably, because (in our hypothetical) the economy will be better.

If Obama loses re-election, a Republican would probably make the tax code MUCH more regressive than it was under Bush. It doesn't matter WHAT Obama does this month. He could let the tax cuts expire or not them expire in 2010, but REGARDLESS of his decision, a Republican win in 2012 would make tax policy so bad in 2013 that we will look back on the Bush tax rates in awe compared to 2013.

[vi5]

34. That's also predicated on the notion....

..that Republicans are going to wait until after the 2012 election to have this discussion.

Just because democrats were idiotic enough to decide to wait until AFTER an election to tackle an impending, major issue that was to their benefit to start addressing before the election doesn't mean that the Republicans will.

This issue will loom large over every dem up for election in 2012, including and especially Obama himself.

[polichick]

6. Sure, right after he walks on water. nt

[Bluebear]

7. lol

[vi5]

8. Even if we give Obama himself the benefit of the doubt...

..which at this point I'm more inclined to NOT do that since he long ago lost that type of trust from me (I'm sure he'll get over my disappointment)...but even if we assume he really, truly, seriously guys really does want them appealed in 2012 what kind of sucker would believe that he'll be more likely to take a stand in an election year with diminished Democratic majorities than he would in a non election year while he still has some semblance of a majority in both the Senate and the House.

I mean is there anyone who thinks this?

Also, even if Obama's premise is true and that in 2012 the economy will be better (it won't, but again...let's put that aside for now), the fact is that if the economy is better then the tax cuts are going to get all the credit.

[RKP5637]

9. No, it will be used against him - he will be labeled a tax and spend democrat. n/t

[LinkUP]

10. Had a lot more reason

To believe he was going to do it this time around. You're a fool if you think he's seriously resolve on getting rid of them.

[thereismore]

11. Haha, funny.

Where would he find the political strength? And why.

[SoCalDem]

12. Nope. It'll be another election year..as is EVERY year

that;'s why NOTHING ever gets "done".. they are all so damned scared of having their money cut off, or that they will lose, so they just tippy-toe around every issue that "might" hurt them.

This is why term limits are a necessity.. I "know" that elections are a "term-limit" of sorts, but if they KNEW they could only serve a specified amount of time, they might actually start voting in a more adult fashion, instead of having every vote be like that of a scared child..

[griffi94]

13. no

[markpkessinger]

15. If you believe that, I have a bridge that might interest you

With a GOP-controlled House, and in the middle of a Presidential election, I honestly don't know how anyone can make the argument that the cuts will be permitted to expire in 2012. This, right now, is the Democrats' last likely chance to address the travesty of the Bush tax cuts, and if it isn't addressed now, it never will be.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. Sure. And, Sarah Palin will become the poster girl for PETA.

[bigwillq]

17. Unlikely

But we'll see what happens. Maybe I'll be surprised.

[kysrsoze]

19. Absolutely not.

[slay]

21. No.

he won't. he won't be getting my vote in 2012 either. EOM.

[Poboy]

22. Fuck no. And he's insulting our intelligence for saying so.

Who does he think he's fooling?

[Chimichurri]

23. right on.

[vi5]

29. I don't know who he THINKS he's fooling...

..but there are more than a few people on these here pages who seem to count among those numbers.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. no.

[librechik]

27. Republicans will throw themselves across the rails in droves to make them permanent

nothing (even being in the minority) will stop them.

[fascisthunter]

32. no.... he's one of em

he made up his mind

[TheCowsCameHome]

33. Why would a lame duck president do that?

Sheesh.

[Peregrine Took]

35. If he does I will turn myself inside out at Clark and Addison and dance a jig. nt