We are WATCHING history folks

[nadinbrzezinski]

A former President of the UNITED STATES does not go to defend the policies of the sitting president.

What you have are several things going...

1.- The Constitutional Crisis in DC is now rank and open... some of us have spoken of it... here you have it, bleeding, gaping in the open.

2.- A former POTUS doing this... Foreign powers are watching... this is what happens also in Empires in Decline. Folks foreign powers will stand up and pay attention to this. Well beyond just theater.

3.- Bernie Sanders doing what he is doing...

I have spoken of trends in the past... they just accelerated in massive ways, and we have reached a tipping point. We may not feel this, it may not be obvious, but to the power brokers in DC... today is a historic day. Mark your calendars, YOU ARE watching history.

[Horse with no Name]

1. While I agree

I also wonder if the fact that Hillary is SOS plays into it?

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. It may

but this is not normal.

POTUS, former POTUS, just fade into the background. That is tradition.

Oh and let's not even go into the damn optics of this.

[Horse with no Name]

28. Not normal at all.

Their handlers are sending them out to gin up support. Wonder who is next.

[glinda]

208. Well Carter was at the WH a day or so before. Guess he turned down the offer?

[PBS Poll-435]

108. Because Clinton didn't campaign for Gore? And Clinton didn't campaign for the mid-terms?

Fading away is a different option because our candidates, winners, and spouses are so much younger than the Republicans during the same time period.

[nadinbrzezinski]

112. Campaign yes, hell Bush Sr has in the past

hold a Press Conference at the WH and have the sitting POTUS walk out... that is not normal;

[PBS Poll-435]

127. Doesn't exactly bother me, but I get your point

:)

[rucky]

7. and not to speculate too much...

nevermind. that was stupid.

[monmouth]

30. I think Obama just realized he's going to be a one-termer. He never

figured that was a possibility but the bubble broke and there you have it. When your own team rebels well there you have it.

[Le Taz Hot]

215. See? That's what I think.

It's the ONLY possible explanation as to why he's made such a sharp right turn. It's like he's going for broke, getting in all the corporate agenda he can because he's only got a couple more years to go. I wouldn't be surprised if he announced he isn't running in 2012.

[saigon68]

249. Bad Leadership he is turning into a Judas Goat for Banks and Military Industrialists

[Whisp]

3. don't be so obvious is rubbing your hands together in glee.

empires in decline mean a lot of hardship, you must be somewhere pretty safe to think this is such a wonderful thing

[gratuitous]

23. If the American empire IS in decline

Is it more efficacious to deny that it's happening or do nothing, or to organize to ameliorate the hardship and (who knows) perhaps even avert it in part or in toto? In any case, I don't think that the observations of one person on the internet will affect that decline in any significant way. But I could be wrong; I often am.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

67. Here's the trade-off as I see it...

...start to climb out of a deep hole today versus trying to climb out of a crater in 12-24 months.

To borrow from Obama, I guess we all can feel "sanctimonious knowing that we are right." I think what is happening is a very good thing :thumbsup:

[eShirl]

31. any glee is in your imagination.

accusing her of thinking this is a wonderful thing? where do you get this BS?

[EmeraldCityGrl]

60. It's devastating. No one is gleeful about what were watching

today. No one will escape the consequences of what's happening.

[Cherchez la Femme]

234. Oh for gawd's sake

stop being delusional -- it's fucking ALARM!

Like we won't be impacted? Like we WANT to see the President we elected and and worked hard to get elected,
fail?! :crazy: :grr:

[fascisthunter]

4. what comes of this?

what do you see happening after this?

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. It really depends on us as well

continue the pressure.

Obama may go the way of LBJ, that would not shock me one iota.

I also foresee the collapse of the US Dollar as a reserve currency in the coming year. Pay attention to the debt ceiling.

Oh and worst case... Texas and NC may start the secession movement.

[deaniac21]

237. Obama leaving is unprecedented but I think it speaks more to

his inexperience and lately, his inability to make a coherent point so they brought in the big dog. The chance of ANY secession ZERO.

[montanacowboy]

5. That's a big Roger

Lot of implications taking place - and the Administration having to call on Clinton to defend the indefensible...

My hat is off to Bernie Sanders a real voice for Progressives who speaks the truth

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. Does W speak next?

Big Dawg disappoints me. His policies weren't prefect by any means, but defending Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy (who don't even NEED or WANT them) is inane.

[nashville_brook]

11. Damn, beat me to it!

:evil grin:

[nashville_brook]

12. Damn, beat me to it!

:evilgrin:

[gateley]

17. Bwah! Probably inappropriate, but your subject line made me laugh. That's just

about how bizarre this is.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. This is a crisis any way you paint it

[Ruby the Liberal]

41. I admit, I am not following the implications of this.

It seems to me that TPTB are panicking, but out of fear for the money class, not the regular people out there.

What am I missing, NB?

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. The outlines are clear

the Dems cannot get a better deal because no Republican can or will vote for the country. You literally have a minority holding the country hostage.

The last time we had such a crisis was 1859... both sides have dug their heels.

In modern terms this is something like Watergate in how it paralyzed the government.

I almost predict an LBJ moment for this POTUS very soon.

[WinkyDink]

52. Does "very soon" mean 2 years? Because no way is Obama stepping down!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. I suspect that Obama will declare that he will not run

or accept the nomination of his party in the next few months. I am not kidding. There is no way he can win. And his body language is of a defeated man.

[dixiegrrrrl]

106. Not in the next few months, perhaps.

but as 2012 get closer...when is the official "hat in the ring" season?

[Ruby the Liberal]

116. Jan 2012 - just prior to the primaries?

My best guess. I would prefer to know one way or another sooner than later so that we can mount a campaign.

[hay rick]

166. The going to a party remark tonight

was very unpresidential. It looked like Bill Clinton went from speaking on his behalf to holding down the fort.

[BigBearJohn]

213. I couldn't agree more. It was so sophomoric it almost made me laugh

[Horse with no Name]

104. I think that is a fair assessment

We are about to see how much power "we the people" hold and when that realization hits the average American--something tells me it won't be a happy day!

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. We are at one of those moments

and we the people pretty get active pretty damn fast

[AngryOldDem]

103. Depends on how desperate Obama gets, I suppose. n/t

[eleny]

8. I wish I had "picture in a picture". So I choose to watch Sanders...

...and will watch the videos of Obama/Clinton later.

K&R

[nashville_brook]

9. The only worse thing that could happen is Bush comes out in support of Obama's plan.

[WinkyDink]

50. Does Rush Limbaugh count?

[delightfulstar]

210. Or Glenn Beck or Bill-O, worse yet? n/t

[DontTreadOnMe]

Dec 10, 2010 -- Official Corporation Take-Over Day

I agree, we just had a tipping point.

Obama looks weaker than ever. He needs someone to speak for his policies, because speaking by himself isn't getting the job done.

Sad day for the Democratic Party.

[WinkyDink]

53. He lay down with dogs; he is surprised he woke up with fleas?

[gateley]

10. Was it you (maybe among others) who said earlier today we're at the tipping point?

I think this Clinton appearance, and how Obama handled it, just pushed us over the top. In my mind, anyway. I'm gobsmacked by this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Yep, welcome to the crisis

and it was me. I spoke of accelerating trends yesterday... well these just went into hyperdrive.

[democrat2thecore]

207. Obama is not running in 2012 - I have no doubt after today -nt

[Cherchez la Femme]

238. Sure he will

he's arrogant and thinks he's absolutely right.

Well, he's Right in one way -- however not in the Correct variety.

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. How does this work out as good for us?

Clinton and Obama are pushing the Republican policies.

[cali]

15. Constitutional crisis? er, no.

anyone who thinks this is a Constitutional Crisis, has no idea what that actually is.

No, we haven't reached a tipping point. They'll pass the extension of the bush tax cuts. Life will go on.

Yes, it's history but it not some historic day.

[AC_Mem]

248. I agree with you

Unfortunately. I believe the tax cut extension will pass. We may possibly get a few more concessions, but it is going to pass. And then we will be on to the next crisis that the GOP will bring with them in 2011.

It's going to be a rocky 2011, but hopefully the tax cut issue has gotten some dems off the couch. We need to unite, volunteer, call and write. We need to walk our talk and give support to those who are supposed to be supporting our beliefs in Washington. We give them strength.

I still believe in hope and change and think that right now we need to believe in it more strongly than ever. This goes beyond what is happening in America; the whole planet is changing and I'm here to tell you, its coming down to those who care and those who do not. If we are those that care, we need to put more energy behind that and not give up.

Annette

[Renew Deal]

16. So much drama

Your post is "based on a true story."

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. Are you even watching?

Laugh all you want.

[HuckleB]

42. EXACTLY!!! +1,000,000,000 ... 000

[spinproof]

246. once the PR folks get done, our whole national dialogue is"based on a true story" n/t

[renate]

250. well said, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

[my2sense]

18. K & R

[stopbush]

21. Wow. Crazy talk. All that's missing is a grassy knoll.

Seriously. Political inertia alone works against the scenario you paint.

[cali]

26. but the trends.... it's the trends? you clearly just don't understand

:sarcasm:

[Cherchez la Femme]

232. Yeah, what do trends portend?!

Nuttin', that's what!

I swear the spin around here gets to the level of Rush Limbaugh at times! :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

34. So former presidents defend policies of sitting presidents

all the time... you must have read an alternate history of the US.

By the way... where exactly did I call for the assassination of the chief executive?

I am just pointing to trends.

And if you want a comparison to history... even if a little different from what you are thinking... Watergate. That is the kind of comparison you want and just on the functional level of crisis.

[stopbush]

56. The grassy knoll comment had nothing to do with assasinations,

just like the grassy knoll had nothing to do with who shot JFK.

My comment was meant to suggest ever so gently that your OP was way off in fantasy land.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. So we do not have a crisis in DC?

Okie dokie, talk about fantasy land.

[stopbush]

75. Talk to me Monday, when the Ds & Sanders decide they've made their point

and the majority of them end up voting for the package with very few if any changes.

Crisis over at that point?

[nadinbrzezinski]

79. And if you think this is over

I have some swamp land for sale.

Jesus there are people who really cannot see, like horses who will not drink even when led to water.

[stopbush]

82. Yep. I'm one of those who doesn't "see" the "pure logic" of all the

JFK CTs either.

Obama's deal is going to pass. The best tweak the Ds could make at this point is to extend the tax cuts for THREE years so their expiration doesn't become an issue in the 2012 election season. That's one boneheaded deadline I just don't get.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

129. Ok, how long do we have to wait before we can tell you you're wrong?

When is the revolution you see coming going to take place?

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

146. You seriously need to chill. Not everyone that disagrees with this hyperbolic rant is a

"true believer" or "pom pom" waver. Your personal attacks are uncalled for and the only thing you're going to do is get yourself alerted on and tombstoned and that won't accomplish a thing.

[mmonk]

188. Beginning.

[Octafish]

65. That's what you say.

In fact, that's one of the first things I remember you writing on DU, even though your profile says you've been around since 2003.

[HuckleB]

40. +1

[HCE SuiGeneris]

209. - 1

[cali]

22. unrecced for histrionic nonsense.

[stevenleser]

117. I think you were being too kind. Kicked and Unrecced. n/t

[ljm2002]

25. Totally agree...

...it is a very interesting development, and not in a good way.

That, plus Wikileaks, plus the riots in London -- yes, we are plunging further into interesting times.

[nadinbrzezinski]

We are living the Chinese curse

and given that the chinese will come on top...

[Mike 03]

27. You make some good points, but it is depressing to say the least.

It is hard to argue with your points. This is a huge tipping point, but it has been a long time coming.

But you are very accurate in your predictions, and I make an effort to read every one of your posts for that very reason.

We are big trouble.

[ProSense]

29. "A former President of the UNITED STATES does not go to defend the policies of the sitting president

Are you kidding?

"I have repeatedly defended President Bush against the left on Iraq, even though I think he should have waited until the U.N. inspections were over," Clinton said in a Time magazine interview that will hit newsstands Monday, a day before the publication of his book "My Life."

link

[HuckleB]

39. Exactly.

This is not unusual. It seems like a lot of people are now addicted to drama. Everything is "HUGH!"

[walldude]

78. Yeah and he was fucking wrong then too.

Unless you think the war in Iraq was a wonderful thing that brought Democracy and Rainbows and Flowers to the Middle East.

Seriously, you are going to use support for an illegal immoral war as a defense? :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

86. THose were not bullets

they were hard candy!

:evilgrin:

[DireStrike]

99. I agree with you but don't conflate the issues.

The question was "have former presidents historically gone to defend the policies of the sitting president?"

The answer is clearly yes. Two separate issues.

[avaistheone1]

197. Yeah but it seems like former presidents step forward to support issues

in order to hoodwink the American people on an issue or they do it to support issues that do not really benefit the American people.

[Number23]

154. I didn't even read past that one sentence.

If the very first line displays a stunning amount of political ignorance, why would I waste my time reading the whole thing??

[fishwax]

189. poppa bush also defended junior on a policy or two

[nadinbrzezinski]

194. Was poppy left alone to defend junior

While Junior went on to the reception?

The optics are just wrong.

[Cherchez la Femme]

239. They had a presser together?

A totally bizarre presser? Really?

Hum, color me convinced.




Not.

[Mike 03]

32. Kick and rec. NT

[leveymg]

33. You're right about that.

[Goldstein1984]

35. What we're seeing is the rich and powerful banding together out of common interest

And I think they're scrambling to keep the house of cards they've built from collapse, without admitting they've build a house of cards.

We common people are going to suffer when it all comes crashing down, and I hope that suffering drives us to ensure that we never again allow the lives of so many to be manipulated by so few.

Aside from the technical process of elections, how much better off are we than if we were at the mercy of monarchy instead of oligarchy?

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. We are actually near a revolt I think

and they know that.

[stopbush]

77. I assume you're in your van on the way to DC as you write...

[Goldstein1984]

115. It's a long way to DC from Alaska

This isn't the 60s. You don't have to physically be someplace to have an impact there.

[stopbush]

157. Er, Nadine was saying the country is near revolt.

Want to tell me how effective a revolt is if you "don't have to physically be someplace to have an impact there?"

I doubt that the powers-that-be are losing a minute of sleep over a "revolt" that's taking place in the blogosphere, nor are they impressed with the blather coming out of the talking heads who are all millionaires many times over.

Now, a 2-million person march in DC of the common man armed with pitchforks? Now, THAT'S a revolt.

[cali]

241. we're not even close to a revolt.

[tomm2thumbs]

36. is this like when Richie was trying to get Fonzie to fight his battles for him?

tsk tsk tsk

[Safetykitten]

54. The Obama Presidency just jumped the shark.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Wow......

This is comical!

But go ahead. It's Friday, and I need a laugh! :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. You think it is comical that the former POTUS

had to defend the CURRENT POTUS who WALKS OUT OF THE ROOM?


If you do not get what is wrong with those optics there is nothing that will break the haze of cult of personality from you.

[FrenchieCat]

51. If someone is watching their Television while standing on their head,

then yeah...the optics look bad.


:crazy:
























Can't folks be any sadder round these parts?
Don't even need pundits doing our thinking for us,
we've got you and those who follow your tweets! :rofl:









:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. Keep laughing chuckles

[FrenchieCat]

68. Thanks!

:rofl:
















I'm sure you'll get me back.
After all, isn't America about Retribution
before anything else? :shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. ... Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. ...

The True Believer

http://www.amazon.com/True-Believer-Thoughts-Nature-Movements/dp/0060916125

In a few years those might make sense... not now.

[FrenchieCat]

85. That's the same thing Bush said about the Iraq War!

:rofl:

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

100. i've read hoffer..

and there is no shortage of true believers on this board to be sure. we'll see if frenchie's still roffling in another few months.

[Cherchez la Femme]

240. Santayana said it

You're looking more and more foolish. Just walk away and save yourself more embarrassment.

[frylock]

careful! "chuckles" may be construed as racist

[nadinbrzezinski]

98. Not meaning that way

as is the person is now in the personal memory hole.

[frylock]

102. i was kidding..

seems the racist canard is the latest tactic in STFU. there was a list earlier. "in over his head" and "empty suit" are evidently racist code language now, despite the fact that those terms were used to describe our last president.

[Cherchez la Femme]

243. "Corporatist" too

Among many others.
Seems like anything short of bootlicking is "racist" -- we've been warned.

Unbelievable.

[Missy Vixen]

48. Those who don't learn from history

are doomed to repeat it.

Keep laughing.

[madmax]

44. Watching a former President come the White House

essentially giving a press conference is terribly disconcerting. imho.

In plain English, it just doesn't look good.

[NorthCarolina]

122. 'Disconcerting' as in the desperate act of a weak president? nt

[Whisp]

45. unrec for Nostradamus value

[Scurrilous]

80. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Whisp]

90. matter and anti-matter meet at a podium

world has to end.
what else could it mean?

:D

[BzaDem]

47. Oh let me guess -- the EMPIRE is declining!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[AndrewP]

49. It is historic for sure n/t

[Gin]

57. one talking head made a slip of the tongue and said "the republicans

got the best deal they could"

[Gin]

61. Obama finally used the bully pulpit.... to drown out Bernie Sanders

[nadinbrzezinski]

63. Problem is that I am still listening to Bernie

and... he used a FORMER POTUS to do this.

I gotta say today will be a day to remember.

[eleny]

94. Obama + Clinton = Sanders?

If this is why the two went out there to talk to the press, to drown out Bernie, it tells us just how important Sanders' action is today.

Btw, I've been watching him for hours now and am so grateful to him.

[CakeGrrl]

62. Constitutional Crisis?

:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:

I think you need to oxygenate the bubble.

Bernie Sanders filibustering? NEVER happened before. EVER EVER!!!!

:crazy:

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. Tell me how many bils have gone through teh US Senate

I mean how many bills have been blocked by a MINORITY abusing procedure?

That my dear is the slow moving crisis.

You think it is normal for POTUS to walk away while a FORMER POTUS speaks to the press?

[ProSense]

66. Actually

it friggin brilliant, absolutely.

Arm-twisting and transparency rolled into one. :)

[spanone]

71. that's what we need, tag-team presidency!!!!

:shrug: :rofl:

[walldude]

81. Oh yeah that's what I call BRILLIANT...

Almost as brilliant of his defense of the Iraq War. He was wrong then and he's wrong now.

[Cherchez la Femme]

244. Seems like you always link, for 'proof', back to yourself

'Don't take my word for it -- take my word for it!' *snicker*

And what's so transparent about a bill that isn't available to be read yet? Hmm?

[stopbush]

69. It's more normal than a president sitting there with a blank look on his face for 7 minutes

after being told the country is under attack.

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Really? Here is a free clue for ya

neither are normal for different reasons.

I probably could also try to 'splain to you the optics of this as well, but why try to bother?

Here is a book I recommend you read...

http://www.amazon.com/True-Believer-Thoughts-Nature-Movements/dp/0060916125

Because you really need to break that haze.

[upi402]

70. We have an Independant showing Democrats how to act like Democrats

We have a lot of stuff, and much of it is at crisis level.

But the chickens still elect Colonel Sanders - and NOT Bernie Sanders.

"Stuck on stupid"

[alsame]

97. The difference between what Sanders has been saying and what

Clinton said is staggering.

[upi402]

124. Staggering, and shamefully tragic really. n/t

[dixiegrrrrl]

130. Truth shines thru, does it not?

All the more recognizable for the increasing rarity of it.

[alsame]

134. Yes. And having both of them speak at the same time is almost

surreal. It's like they're talking about two different realities.

[nadinbrzezinski]

136. Two very different vissions of the future

[alsame]

140. Yes, different visions of where the country should go. nt

[glinda]

206. Imagine if you just turned on the tv and saw Bill speaking? Yikes! Mind bender.

[nadinbrzezinski]

223. The optics were just wrong

[jefferson_dem]

73. Oh goodness.

Please tell us you are just messin' with us. You know ... we're being punk'd.

[nadinbrzezinski]

76. Well perhaps MSNBC played with the image

and we did not see the sitting POTUS leave the podium with the FORMER POTUS there to answer questions from the Press... like flashback to 1994...

Perhaps you can splaim to the class why that is not out of the normal .

[Whisp]

88. acraptolypto based on this alone?

ok...

:rofl:

[Number23]

155. The 50+ folks who rec'd this seem to not know any better. Exactly the OPs desired audience

[nadinbrzezinski]

162. So you believe a POTUS leaving a former POTUS

to run a presser while he goes on to his wife is like standard?

I mean it happens every day in DC RIGHT?

You do understand what that shows don't you?

By the way, I am willing to compare credentials.

[Number23]

186. "By the way, I am willing to compare credentials."

lol The fact that you are willing to put your "credentials" out on an Internet message board tells me that they could probably barely qualify as "credentials." lol

[nadinbrzezinski]

187. Perhaps you do not understand why

since you are WAY TOO SHALLOW but welcome to the pom pom brigade, good bye

[Number23]

245. lol Better to be thought "shallow" by fools than "hysterical" by those of intelligence

[blindpig]

83. Watching is for wankers...

I'm ready for us to start making history.

The goings on in Europe is the real history going on, the kabuki theater in DC is more like the hubris ridden speeches in a Greek tragedy. They never listen to the chorus.

[nadinbrzezinski]

84. That is coming too

tipping point we are going headlong into that part of the crisis.

And how many demos you've been to that never made it to the news?

So the tactics have to change... and no I am not calling for violence, but they gotta change.

[blindpig]

93. We got one power,

the power to withhold our labor, to prevent the doing of business, the general strike.

Ready?

[nadinbrzezinski]

101. I already participated in the first three

I know most people don't even know we had three...

[maryf]

229. The chorus

needs to set their own stage, and turn up the volume...

[tpsbmam]

89. I picked my neighbor's 6 y.o. from school today. I'm lucky enough to have C-Span in the car

and I had it on the whole time she was with me. She came home with me until her mom got home & I turned on the TV. She was, amazingly, rapt with attention! Needless to say, she's a really bright kid.

I explained to her that she was seeing history made. When Obama campaigned here, I took her with me to his speech. I'm disabled and we were thus lucky enough to be sitting right up front. She, again, was rapt during his entire speech. She was so excited -- after the speech she kept saying "Rock Obama rocks!" (Hey, she was only 4 at the time!) I was doing mailings from here and she helped (before she went to school I babysat for her for free for 2 years so her parents could work). She has come with me every time I've voted since she was old enough to sort of get it. (One day I'll share my FAVORITE voting story ever -- it features her.)

So the kid kind of got today what was going on. I did my best to explain it at her level and she really appeared to get it. She got it enough that her mom called after she went home -- she wanted to know what the hell she was supposed to turn on that had something to do with history. LOL Man, I love that kid and love our teaching moments!

:hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug: :loveya: :hug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

107. Good for you

[Waiting For Everyman]

91. It's a first, and yes "jumped the shark" applies.

I agree with you. I've been alive for 6 decades, and following the news for 5 decades, and I've never seen anything like it.

A massive theft is underway, with two POTUSs in on it, and one man blocking the way, with all of us watching.

Yep. That's some weird tv this afternoon.

[kath]

205. Speaking of "Waiting For Everyman", I listened to JB's "Late for the Sky" CD yesterday, and it felt

very strange listening to "Before the Deluge" during this crazy week. Interesting times...

[onenote]

92. while some here hyperventilate, this is what the experts say

This is from a report from a legislative analysis firm that advises a wide range of clients on legislative developments. These folks have their ears to the ground and a multitude of inside sources to draw on. I received this around 10 minutes ago:

"Attached is a Joint Economic Committee score of the Bush tax cut extension legislation along with a summary of the bill. We continue to believe this legislation will be enacted before January 1, but maybe after the House first votes down the compromise measure or additional tweaks are made.

In addition, if the bill is not enacted by then, we believe the new Congress will act rather quickly, perhaps even by the first week in January. The new House would most likely pass the compromise (unless the ‘Tea Party’-type candidates have a major problem with it). And given that the current Senate is likely to pass the bill next week, the new, more Republican Senate would also be more than likely to pass the bill fairly easily."

As Cali points out upthread, this isn't a crisis, constitutional or otherwise.

[blindpig]

Whose experts?

The hired whores of Capital, who of course have no vested interests....

[onenote]

105. even accepting your characterization, there is a reason people pay these folks

and its because they generally know what they're talking about. Time will tell, but I wouldn't bet against them being right.

[blindpig]

109. All within peculiar parameters....

those of Capitalism.

[onenote]

113. those are the parameters in which we live,

If you want to pretend to live in a different set of circumstances, feel free to do so and to make up whatever results you want. Just don't be surprised that when you walk out your front door, you're living in a different world than the one in your head or that the folks who don't live in a fantasy world are able to accurately forecast things.

My only point in citing to this analysis is that those who think we're in some sort of crisis this afternoon may be overstating a wee bit what is really happening, which is just another act in a multiact drama.

[blindpig]

217. It is a matter of priorities

These 'experts' take as given that the needs of the finance industry take precedence over all else. Is that any way to run a society? That people should suffer deprivation, poverty, even starvation, that the environment be despoiled and resources squandered and war be inflicted all that the orderly working of the profit machine be maintained?

It is indeed the state of things, but that does not mean that it is the best we can do for ourselves nor that this situation is intractable, far from that.

[onenote]

219. No. Those experts report on what is happening in the world as it exists

They don't make things happen. If because you have a different set of priorities you went out and predicted that Congress was going to pass a bill that will cure all of the world's ills, do you think that its going to happen?

Again, my comment wasn't directed at what should be. Just at what is, notwithstanding some of the hyperbole in this thread.

[blindpig]

221. Of course they don't 'make things happen'

What they do is describe ruling class necessities, which are very different than working class necessities. I agree that ruling class necessities are what we suffer under, and what I am saying is that we must change that, stop acquiescing to our abuse. We must tear down the existing order.

[blindpig]

95. Whose experts?

The hired whores of Capital, who of course have no vested interests....

[jwirr]

96. Between the students in England, Bernie Sanders and Wikileaks

the American public is getting a whole new education. That is if they are listening.

[okieinpain]

110. nah, i think you over blowing things. dems are just pissed they

got their asses handed to them. it's all going to be ok, president obama will be re-elected and dems will pickup a few house seats in 2012. just be cool mofo, be cool.

[nadinbrzezinski]

114. So a current POTUS just walks out of a press conference

at the WH leaving a former POTUS?

I swear I must have stepped across the looking glass into another, very much parallel, US.

Damn but my personal circumstances are not changed one bit...

So if this is an episode of Sliders, or the Twilight Zone... it is really different than either of those.

[madmax]

128. I've never seen anything like this.

What bothers me the most is the venue. The White House, the podium, the Press Room. I was telling my husband about it and he said, like calling in 'Daddy?'

A meeting and press questions in another room, somewhere he meets heads of state. That wouldn't have looked - to me at least - as weird. This is just how it felt to me - maybe there isn't another person who feels this way. :shrug:

I've been a huge supporter of President Obama since before he even threw in his hat. We were taken with him when he gave the Keynote Address at the DNC 2004. We had tears in our eyes, said - this guy should run for President someday.

Casting my vote for Obama gave me the best feeling about a vote cast in my entire life. I've made albums for AA friends of his journey to the White House. Starting with his Mom, Dad, Grandparents, his baby pics all the way to the Inauguration Day adding Rosa, MLK into the narrative. As if he were a family member.

I told everyone that would stand still for 2 minutes that he would go down in history as one of THE BEST Presidents we ever had, right up there with FDR.

I wish Clinton would have exited with the President and not hold court but, we know Bill loves the lime light.

[nadinbrzezinski]

138. Clinton's Presser was planned

[tex-wyo-dem]

192. I agree with you, nb...

A sitting potus getting a former potus to come in and carry his water, basically yielding the floor to him literally, figuratively and visually is highly unprecedented, not to mention stunning.

Obama is in trouble and now he's getting attacked from all sides. Your prediction of an lbj moment may not be far off the mark.

What's also stunning is the happenings in the last few days and weeks....the combination of these things coming to a head in DC, the riots in London and other parts of Europe and the whole Wikileaks thing has me thinking we have most definitely reached an important point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

195. It actually gives me chills

to be honest.

[whosinpower]

118. The revolt was predictable

You can only kick a dog so many times before he bites back. What is sad is that Obama did not even realize he was kicking the dog, so enamoured with "bipartisanship", he forgot who got him to where he is.

But tomorrow is another day. The sun will still rise. Obama's biggest mistake was that he misread the political gains that the republicans received and jumped ship to their side prematurely and abandoned us. And now he is being called on it.

Having to call in Clinton only gives more credence to his desperation.

But, tomorrow is another day. Tomorrow Obama will still be leader of America. He put himself up a tree with this disgusting deal. I don't see how he can crawl down now without losing face, but perhaps someone or something will provide a ladder for him.

He still has two years. In those years, which are unseen, and as of yet unwritten, he could still do much good. First he has to find a kind friend who has a ladder.......Clinton is a friend, but he has no ladder.

You know, I have always believed that the strength of ones charactor is not written by his accomplishments. The strength of ones charactor is how he/she reacts to failure. Perhaps this is the first time Obama has faced a real failure. He seems to me to be almost an over achiever. I do not mean that to be negative and I think he is earnest in his desire to do what is best for the country. I agree that this is his biggest trial or test. How he moves forward remains to be seen. I sincerely hope he finds his way. Perhaps he needs reminding that we need him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

119. Good assessment

tomorrow he still has a party that wants to destroy him, and perhaps believe they already have.

1994 Clinton had a similar moment, and he got tested by Newt... this is Obama's test. There are things he can learn from that... as well as FDR.

Nevertheless we are in a crisis.

[David Zephyr]

120. I agree. We should also co-opt the Tea Party Movement.

K&R.

[nadinbrzezinski]

125. We have a lot in common

but they need to be guided away from corporate control..

[David Zephyr]

143. A lot of the teaparty people know all about the Bush and bin Laden connections.

That surprised me.

Thom Hartmann said that we should co-opt their movement, so I don't want to take credit for that thinking, but it's well stated. And we do have a lot in commong. It's something I hope to write about this weekend here. I'm glad to see that you are of the same mind. :)

[L0oniX]

121. Sorry. I'm too busy playing Battlefield 2 Special Forces 64 player mod.

[nadinbrzezinski]

126. Well we can always count on you

:evilgrin:

Go kill them Buster!

[laughingliberal]

123. K & R nt

[Gin]

132. I have been thinking of the events of today and wonder if Obama

didn't see anything wrong with leaving the previous Pres to go to a party....it all seems so stupid....now I think it was a stunt to change the weekend news/talking points from Bernie Sanders to Bill saying he agrees/

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. The present WH has been pretty bad

about optics since they were sworn in, and about messaging. One reason he finds himself in that pickle.

[Skip Intro]

133. I dont' get your point. What "Constitutioinal Crisis?" I agree it looked very odd for Obama to leave

but to have Bill by his side in this tax fight, I don't really see that as anything other than the Obama team using Bill to calm Democrats about the deal. Now, Obama leaving, that was strange, but I don't quite understand what you are getting at.

[nadinbrzezinski]

135. The crisis has been developing for months

it is slow motion.

They cannot get bills passed because a MINORITY has been using procedure to block all. Krugman pointed to it oh two weeks ago when he said that adults are noticing that nothing of significance wil be done in DC.

The system is paralyzed... and all sides are entrenched.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

137. President Obama simply allowed bubba to do his thing, which is to talk.

He loves it, Obama can use it, so he got out of the way.

[WilliamPitt]

139. As opposed to participating.

*sigh*

http://www.truth-out.org/back-basics65836

[nadinbrzezinski]

141. Sorry william but we need new tactics

like the three failed national strikes... that is what we need STRIKES.

Demostrations are ignored and you fucking know it, unless... UNLESS they are held by three Tea baggers.

That said, you do not know what people did or did not do. I called my Senators, how about you?

And we called the WH AGAIN...

But thanks for your concern.

[WilliamPitt]

164. So what's you're solution?

Guns?

You first.

PM me with your battle plan.

[nadinbrzezinski]

167. Strikes

organized flash mobs

Demonstrations.

Did I say bombs, or guns? Look I have seen what real revolutions do like much closer than I hope you will ever get... and do not relish the thought of that happening, but that is what will happen if they keep preventing change. Kennedy got it. those who prevent peaceful revolution and all that.

But we need to find a new strategy, which is really old. STRIKES... Major, minor, all that. It includes SOLIDARITY... the kind of action that has not been seen in DECADES.

We are getting near where people will do that, when people have nothing else to lose and all that.

As to battle plan... you are a snark aren't you. I have always admired your writing but now I know I am seeing your other side. That is the NASTY side.

By the way, did you call your two Senators today?

Have you called the WH yet?

I told you what I did, which required LITTLE TO NO PLANNING, but just doing what a citizen does on the spur of moment.

[tavalon]

214. Revolutions of that sort have predictable endings.

What's happening now isn't nearly as formulaic. I agree with NB that demonstrations don't work with the media actively suppressing them. I think this one is going to be fought over the Internet but I haven't a clue what the outcome will be. That presser was odd, indeed.

[nashville_brook]

145. a lot of people thought they were participating when they worked to elect Obama

i bet there's a bit of anger there that can be put to use on various street corners.

i traveled 8 hours by car for a couple of those early bush protests...and the pre-iraq protests, and i gotta tell you -- you don't do it b/c you think it's going to change things (well, the younger folks do, i remember when i did). it's a ritual that you do to stay sane...and as insane as this administration is making the vast majority of Dems, i expect we'll be seeing more "sanity rituals." we'll go to be with each other...to find the others like ourselves who just can't take it anymore. two will become four will become 10 will become 100.

[nadinbrzezinski]

148. +1000 but we need a change in tactics too

[nashville_brook]

158. Totally agreed.

[WilliamPitt]

165. Can I borrow your gun?

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. Will are you drinking tonight?

you are making ZERO sense.

[WilliamPitt]

173. That didn't make sense?

Seemed clear to me.

To answer your question: No.

But hey, thanks for pushing a discredited line of attack. Got old years ago, but apparently it never gets old. Thanks.

:(

In the future, if you don't follow, ask. PM is always available.

[nadinbrzezinski]

175. I won't bother the great will pitt over the PM

[WilliamPitt]

178. nad

Seriously?

:wtf:

[nadinbrzezinski]

179. Seriously, and you calling people heroes for noticing trends

is not appreciated.

Have a good day...

[WilliamPitt]

181. Honestly

I don't know what you're talking about.

Didn't know we were enemies.

Sorry.

Out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

182. I hate to do this but

WilliamPitt (1000+ posts) Sat Dec-11-10 02:52 AM
Response to Reply #141
164. So what's you're solution?

Guns?

You first.

PM me with your battle plan.

-------------

Kind of a ranking one.


And no, we are not enemies, never have never will...

[WilliamPitt]

183. Didn't mean for that to be an insult

It was a challenge, sure.

Nothing personal.

*sigh*

'Night.

:(

[nadinbrzezinski]

184. You got to understand it is all the people

real DU'ers claiming that noticing trends is calling for a revolution. Which is not.

So accepted.

[nashville_brook]

220. No guns

Blow darts.

[MilesColtrane]

230. Ninjas

Tiny ninjas, with flamethrowers...

[nashville_brook]

235. in tiny radio-controlled urban assault vehicles...or, dogsleds.

[MilesColtrane]

242. .

:thumbsup:

[Faryn Balyncd]

144. The collapse of hope.

[OregonBlue]

147. What a load of poppycock. This is not a constitutional crises. It's certainly hardball politics and

excellent theater but it's hardly the end of the world as we know it. Since when did Henny-Penny take over DU.

[tavalon]

216. It's not the end of the world

I think she was trying to bring our attention to the history making moment now in progress.

[nadinbrzezinski]

228. To some people bringing attention to events

that are critical of the sitting POTUS IS the end of the world. Reminds me of a similar group of people over the last administration.

True believers indeed/

http://www.amazon.com/True-Believer-Thoughts-Nature-Movements/dp/0060916125

[tavalon]

247. One thing though

I notice how annoyed you've gotten with many on this thread in particular. I think you might have thrown a few good ones on your ignore list. True enough, it's not my list nor my experience, but I'm concerned that you're going to end up in an echo chamber of your own making. While some of these same people can drive me to distraction, I am loathe to place them on ignore because sometimes, these same people have great insights.

Just a comment from the peanut gallery.

[Major Hogwash]

149. Excuse me, but that's 2 - count 'em 2 - DEMOCRATIC Presidents.

George W Bush was the LAST REPUBLICAN President. Period!

That's the history that was made today -- no Republican will EVER be elected President in this country ever again.
Ever!

It is the death of the Republican party.
That's what you witnessed today.
There won't be any funeral, but it is over for the GOP.
They are history.

They have voted against the people who are out of work.
They have voted against the sick who were without healthcare insurance.
They have voted against the elderly.
They have voted against the poor.
They have voted against the gays.

Add them all up and what do you get?

They have voted against the MAJORITY OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!

[nadinbrzezinski]

150. And the two percenters are about to get an extension

in their precious tax cut that will help them pay the bills. I mean poor dears... they got nothing!

:sarcasm:

Nah in reality I saw a seating POTUS excusing himself and walking out of a PRESER held by a former POTUS.

Perhaps we were watching different versions of reality.

As to Republicans, the fear is that they have laid careful traps that are now springing.

[Major Hogwash]

204. Reality is about perception, nadin.

Every philosopher since the beginning of time has discussed it.
Every politician has to deal with it ever since.

What I saw today was the current President handing the press conference off to the former President, who spent the next 30 minutes answering every single lame question the press had about the deal.

Which was brilliant, because if anyone knows how to handle the press, it is Bill J. Clinton.

[thanks_imjustlurking]

151. I never had a particular desire to live in interesting times.....

:banghead:

[nadinbrzezinski]

152. Well as one person much older and wiser than me once told me

well before Lord of the Rings came out, but I would not be shocked if that is what they were paraphrasing.

"We don't chose the times of our lives. But we need to do the best we can with them."

[thanks_imjustlurking]

172. What else is there to do?

:hi:

[treestar]

153. This has to take the cake for OTT dramatizing.

Lame, very lame.

[OregonBlue]

156. LOL. The drama. The drama!!!

[thanks_imjustlurking]

174. The topic is that we are being sold down the river

by our "own" party. Who am I kidding? There is one party, the corporate party. We just had a brief dream.

[Warren DeMontague]

159. Soon, the sun will turn blood red and the rocks and stones will themselves begin moaning.

Four Horsemen will appear on the Horizon, bearing the collected works of Steely Dan on Vinyl.

And cats and dogs, living together.

DOOOOOOMED!

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. Well I guess some people make fun until it is

not something you can joke about.

I could get biblical with you too, something about reaping what you sow... and those who sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.

[Warren DeMontague]

190. if you plant ice, you're gonna harvest wind.

if you get confused, listen to the music play.

[Cherchez la Femme]

236. First

“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”
--Mahatma Gandhi

Well, in these cases we don't win, but you may well be proved correct...

[Mira]

160. Yes we are. And it feels good Recommended

[hay rick]

163. GWB volunteered to speak because

they're actually his policies. But the PR didn't seem quite right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

168. Somebody up thread had the same thought.

:-)

[hay rick]

170. So I noticed after I posted.

And I agree that we are at a tipping point. A tax compromise anything like the president's proposal will make the final transition to a sham democracy obvious and complete.

[nadinbrzezinski]

171. Well it is not that we have not been here in the past

the 1880s come to mind. It just took 56 years to get any major rights....

and then the counter revolution started.

This is one of those moments. What it's also done is shown to us the traditional beginning of a party flip... as well as two major parties at internal war.

[BoneDaddy]

176. Do people read even recent history... even on DU?

Please return to the origins of DU and re read the posts. The end of the world posts similar to those seen through the Bush admin and now. It would be comical if it wasnot so sad.

The world didn't come to the end, Satan did not sprout out of Cheney's stomach ( like we all thought) and Bush did not usher into a demonic celebration of the planet. Time to have a drink, smoke a joint, do some fucking yoga, and chill the fuck out for fucks sake.

[nadinbrzezinski]

180. Well yes, we did, and no I did not

and by the way there is more, this is not just about the US. Unlike many provincials here I happen to be noticing a western world trend.

I will not call it revolution yet, but it's gone well beyond the ... riot stage.

By the way do remind me of how normal is to have a former POTUS run a PRESSER at the WHI, while the seating one leaves for a party...

I think, speaking of history, that I read a different version of US history when that is not common.

Now you may not get it in your corner of the world. but there are foreign Intel officers who did pay attention to that today... as well as... people well within DC.

And I think you are right. people don't read history. Not last week, not ten years ago, or a hundred years ago. Alas I do... that is what I DO.

[Name removed]

222. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BoneDaddy]

255. No argument from me

my point being how people internalize all of this drama. Many, I think, make themselves sick and angry. I refuse to do so. I believe it is possible to remain rational, aware and active without sacrificing my peace, because ultimately none of us know how this will work out. I point to recent history just to illustrate that the end of the world posts that occurred in the Bush regime in here never really came to be and how upset people became as a result of it. I think so much of this is drama.

[BoneDaddy]

177. Do people read even recent history... even on DU?

Please return to the origins of DU and re read the posts. The end of the world posts similar to those seen through the Bush admin and now. It would be comical if it wasnot so sad.

The world didn't come to the end, Satan did not sprout out of Cheney's stomach ( like we all thought) and Bush did not usher into a demonic celebration of the planet. Time to have a drink, smoke a joint, do some fucking yoga, and chill the fuck out for fucks sake.

[SidDithers]

185. Fucking LOLZ...

:rofl: :rofl:

Sid

[Warren DeMontague]

191. ***

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3CmXGKXOmk

[fishwax]

193. the only reason it's unusual to see a former POTUS defend a current one is that it's unusual for a

POTUS to live that long. It's even more unusual for a former POTUS to live that long with any credibility as a voice in national politics. And yet more unusual for a former POTUS to be (a) alive, (b) a credible voice, and (c) popular enough with the public that he might actually be considered an asset by the sitting president. Clinton may well be unique as a still-popular and still-respected former POTUS likely to support the current president's policies.

43 (w): For the record, poppa bush did defend junior's policies. Not in quite the same what that Clinton did today, but of course that would have been unseemly, given that junior's legitimacy was already questionable. (Technically speaking, Reagan lived long enough to see W in office, but he wasn't of sound mind.)

42 (Clinton): Carter was the only democrat alive to defend Clinton's policies. They did not see eye to eye.

41 (poppa bush): Reagan, Ford, and Nixon could have come to poppa bush's defense, but who would have cared? Nixon left office in disgrace and everyone already knew that Reagan's mind had been slipping for some time.

40 (reagan): Ford and Nixon could have defended Reagan, I suppose, but I'm not sure his team would have wanted them to.

39 (Carter): When Carter was president, he was the only living democratic president, so there was nobody to come to his defense.

38 (Ford): I guess Ford could have had Nixon defend his policies, but it wouldn't have been a good idea.

37 (nixon): Eisenhower died a couple of months into Nixon's presidency, well before he really needed much defending.

36 (LBJ): Truman was the only living democratic president at the time, and he appeared in public to support LBJ. In fact, when LBJ signed medicare into law, he did so at the Truman library, with Truman in attendance. (See picture below.)

35 (JFK): I don't know much about the relationship between JFK and Truman (who, again, was the only president likely to come to JFK's defense). I do know that Truman was critical of the CIA with respect to the Bay of Pigs affair and that he campaigned for Kennedy in the 1960 election. But I don't know offhand whether he ever spoke about Kennedy's policies while JFK was alive and in office.

34 (Ike): Hoover was the only republican president still alive during the Hoover administration, and I don't think Ike would have ever had cause to enlist Hoover's support.

33 (Truman): Truman was on his own.

32 (FDR): FDR was on his own.

31 (Hoover): Calvin Coolidge, theoretically, could have come to Hoover's defense, I suppose, but I'm not sure that "Silent Cal" would have been able to make much of a difference.

And so on ...

[nadinbrzezinski]

196. That's not exactly what happened to day and you know it

this is what we call spin.

Here some help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x534252

[fishwax]

198. no more than anything else is spin

I was responding to the suggestion in the OP that it's somehow unheard of for a former POTUS to defend a current one. The fact is, Bill Clinton is, as a popular former POTUS who is still a credible voice in politics and shares a party with the current president, an historical anomaly.

What other sitting president would have had both the opportunity and an expectation of benefiting from sharing a press conference with a former president? It wouldn't have helped Clinton, Reagan, Ford, or either of the Bushes, and it wouldn't have been possible for Carter or Nixon.

[nadinbrzezinski]

200. So POTUS leaves former POTUS alone

and goes to the party all the time?

WHO KNEW?

[fishwax]

201. yes, all the time -- that's exactly what I said

:boring:

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fishwax]

203. you do understand the difference b/w "historical anomaly" and "happens all the time," right?

"had it with the pom pom brigade"

That has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've posted, but whatever.

[Willinois]

211. This is the second post to destroy your premise

along with ProSense's comment that you didn't respond to. The only thing I see is that some people need to hear the same words spoken by a white guy.

[Name removed]

225. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cali]

227. lol. everyone who disagrees with the infallible you

is immediately branded a member of the "pom pom brigade".

What a pantsload.

[newtothegame]

199. No. nt

[Imagevision]

212. Clinton should bring his golf partner George H. W. Bush in for his two cents...!

[jp11]

218. I disagree on a Consitutional Crisis and somewhat about foreign powers

but the end result is you have The Current President bringing in a Former President and having him speak for his actions, from the White House is IMO sad and somewhat pathetic on Obama's side. Regardless of Obama bringing in people to agree on issues, which is fine, but this crosses a line to me, Obama is President and shouldn't have had Clinton do a press conference for him in the Whitehouse, I don't know if there is somewhere he could have done a press conference and not still have been 'bad', only a statement IMO would have been okay.

A picture says a thousand words and the visual of Clinton back in the Whitehouse doing a press conference is just bad on so many more levels than it is good to me, which I struggle to discover. Outsiders see this as well and judge it in their own views, to me it makes Obama seem 'weak' to bring in someone who has been polled as more popular to defend his actions and backup his play against not only the 'deal' but in a sense to lecture progressives, not so much literally IMO but the effect is there in my view. Obama made his case then a day or so later brings in President Clinton to explain how he agrees and would do the same thing so 'it is all okay', now we can rest our pretty heads knowing Clinton concurs with Obama.

[nadinbrzezinski]

226. The crisis is very slow going

and it has all to do with the party of no.

They will continue to refuse to pass anything unless they take the country hostage at this point.

The last time a party did this the calendar read 1859... and with the fall of Empire I cannot predict (though I expect it) whether it will have the same result.

It is essentially functional...

[H2O Man]

224. Recommended.

Definitely.

[Cherchez la Femme]

231. Ramen!

[closeupready]

233. I'd doubt if any of these millionaires care a whit about social security.

So reducing the payroll tax...? Heck, why not. They've GOT their millions, cushy board jobs that pay big for little work. Lifetime, taxpayer-subsidized, gold-plated health coverage. :mad:

[Taverner]

251. ..and in some empires on the wane had ice cream

Doesn't mean there is a correlation between those events and the waning

Oh be sure our empire is waning, but this was known back in the 2000's when China and India wanted to go off the Dollar standard. From then on, it was all downhill.

When our empire was an Empire, no one would have considered such a think. Especially not China or India.

[Gin]

252. just watched Restrepo and the soldiers burned their own poop

in a barrel....I guess that was a heat source....good to know in case things get primitive like in Afghanistan...

[Scurrilous]

253. Tipping Point Kick

:kick:

[BOG PERSON]

254. n/m