All this angst about the President! I can tell you how it really is ...

[dawg]

You're free to disagree with me, of course. It's just that you will be wrong. :)

President Obama is just *not* a confrontational man. We called him "No-Drama Obama" before the election, and we are surprised that he isn't calling the Republicans to the mat now?

He is not a Republican mole. He is a center-left Democrat like most of us here.

When he knows that he does not have the votes in Congress to pass something - he will not advocate or *fight* for it. He thinks it would be pointless and would make his Presidency look *weak* when it gets voted down or filibustered. I disagree with him, but that is how he thinks.

On health care, he thinks he got the best possible deal he could have for the American people. As imperfect as it is, and judging from the failed attempts of Presidents Truman, Nixon, Carter & Clinton to pass health reforms ... he could actually be right.

On this tax deal, he thinks he has snookered the Republicans into accepting another large stimulus package. The economy for *real* people in this country is anemic, and the unemployment extension is the most stimulative thing the governmnent could do. The payroll tax cut will be very stimulative as well, will put hundreds of extra dollars in most workers pockets, and will *not* impact the social security trust fund unless some future congress decides to retrocatively make it so. Again, Obama thinks this deal is the best he could get for us.

The Korea free trade deal is *not* NAFTA (although the sainted Bill Clinton pushed for that one). South Korea in 2010 is a vastly different country than Mexico in the 1990's. We sould really start to think of S. Korea as more of a first world country.

The President thinks that if he were more of a *fighter* that he would have accomplished less and that ordianary working-class Americans would be worse off right now. He may actually be right about that in a legislative sense.

His biggest problem, as far as I can see, is that he thinks his job is to manage the situation as well as he can considering all the political and economic realities of the day.

On the other hand, I expect him to lead.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Center Right, but that's ok

Trust me, he is NOT center left.

[dawg]

2. Where I come from ...

anyone who would not ban abortion or would even consider signing a repeal of DADT is *left*.

[Enrique]

4. so Joe Lieberman is your idea of "left"

it's not mine. That kind of left is, according to my political beliefs, a disaster for working class people, while being very very good for other people.

[dawg]

15. Not *my* idea of left ...

but to most people down here in the land of Dixe, yep.

[Marr]

9. And that's why they're so easy to screw over.

The DLCers/New Democrats whatever you want to call them, are based around the idea of adopting the same supply-side economic stance as the Republicans (allowing them to service wealth and rake in tons of money), while differentiating themselves with social issues as window dressing. These are things they will *never* actually make progress on. You don't give the donkey the carrot-- you keep it on the stick.

The right has been doing it for a long time with abortion, prayer in schools, etc., etc. The New Democrats do it with issues like abortion and gay rights.

[defendandprotect]

11. These are just two more pins which are possibly being set up ....

to be knocked over --

that's all you're saying -- it hasn't happened YET!

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Then with all due respect you need a good introduction

to political science.

The US has a very narrow band of what is "left" center and right. Not because the country is center right, as the myth goes, but the establishment is.

In a world setting Obama is pretty center-right. Kucinich is barely center-left. Sanders is a little further but not by much.

And this is part of the problem, and why the US, even though it would elect a real center left candidate if certain names were not used, in reality the most acceptable leader to the ELITES in the country right now is center right. Hell, Ike would not be elected today... he is a damn commie... and so is Nixon.

And all those wedge issues are used to divide and conquer.

[dawg]

16. I realize that Obama would be right of center by international standards ...

But that matters nothing in U.S. politics. The only people who are aware of opinions in other countries are leftists like us, anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. It matters

because they are using social issues to hide economics,

And it is time we say ENOUGH!

It will come to that anyway. I'd rather it come in the ballot box personally.

On edit this is also why we must use correct language and call them as they are. Obama is center right, boehner is a fascist.

[Marr]

7. mispost

[elleng]

3. Thanks. Agree,

and he got a compromise, which means, by definition, that neither side is 100% satisfied; that's the way of the world.

[MindandSoul]

5. I think you are absolutely right on all points!

[whosinpower]

6. I have to disagree about tax cuts being stimulus

Seems to me to be a vague roundabout way to try to encourage job growth. Let all the tax cuts expire. Create a national jobs program to directly stimulate businesses to hire, and help start ups with labour needs. Workers who qualify must be currently registered as unemployed. Businesses who want to participate must register an increase in labour force, not a turnover. Government could borrow for that - but to borrow to give tax cuts in the hopes and prayers that somehow this will be an incentive to create job growth is myopic. Any increased demand will be reflected in increased jobs overseas - not here.

Create a national jobs program for American companies to hire American workers for the American economy.

It helps business. It helps train and hire workers - american workers.

[dawg]

21. The upper-end tax cuts will probably not be stimulative at all ...

the middle-class Bush tax cuts will be mildly stimulative. The payroll tax cut will be the second most stimulative provision - the majority of that money will probably be spent and recycled into the economy. The best provision is the unemployment extension. Close to 100% will be spent.

[mmonk]

8. There's nothing left about him as far as I can tell (you called him center left).

At a minimum center right. If cutting social security benefits is involved (and cutting the tax that provides it is a good indication that is probable), he is just right (without the center qualifier).

[defendandprotect]

10. If you think you or Obama are in the "center" now ....

you are between one right wing party and one radical right wing party --

that puts you no where near "center-left" -- it puts you between

being "center-right" and "center-radical right" --


:eyes:


If you support the corporate-DLC -- or if you support undermining Social Security

and Medicare -- you are not on the "left."

[dawg]

19. I am *personally* far to the left of Obama ...

However, I tire of people telling me that he is to the right of the majority of the American people - the same people who just marched to the polls and installed John *Boner* as the next speaker of the house.

To think that the country is to the left of Obama is delusional. It's the same kind of "she'd be in love with me if she really *knew* me kind" of crap that invades my thinking about my love life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Become familiar with the concept protest election

This had all the hallmarks of one.

And don't fall for the elite narrative presented by Boehner please.

Here to get you started

http://jtp.sagepub.com/content/16/1/79.abstract

Using the google for things like this is always a pain.

[dawg]

24. Protest election?

I'm sorry. That dog won't hunt.

I would like to believe, as you apparently do, that this isn't a nation of ignorant reactionary voters. But protest election, this was not.

Unless, of course, so was 1994. And also 2000, when despite peace, prosperity, and a balanced budget, a blathering right-wing idiot came withing a hair of winning the Presidency. And 2004, when the bastard actually *was* elected even though he had mismanaged Afhanistan, started a pointless war in Iraq, fucked that up, and spent the country into deficit.

If anything, 2008 was a protest election in this country.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. No this was

and it was revealed in the after election polls

THe voters clearly said they expected to be disappointed by the Republicans within months. Hell buyers remorse, the media narrative, already started. This is to counter what this was.

That is a hallmark of a protest election.

1994 was a wave election. And 2006 was a wave election and in some regions a protest election.

The people have very little ways to show their displeasure in our system... so throw the bums out, and we have had a few protest elections in history, is the way to do it.

Get familiar with the concept, things are well beyond official elite media narratives, and the reactionary voter is a media elite narrative too.

[dawg]

28. So, what is your solution?

Clearly, we disagree as to the nature of the political problem in this country, although we both seem to agree that there is a problem.

Under my way of thinking, what we need to do is to elect center-left candidates who are willing to lead the people leftward. Leaders who will make the case for moving to the left to the American poeple. Leaders who will move the electorate and not be moved by it.

What is the solution under your way of thinking?

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. First we need to diagnose the problem

second, I am all for the ballot box... and in fact I am all for run off voting, or other forms of PROPORTIONAL representation, oh and no electronic machines.

We need serious economic reforms, and to achieve them we need to FORGET the media narratives and concentrate on the economic.

[defendandprotect]

32. 28 million expected voters stayed home ....how do you describe that?

Your're saying these voters are all "ignorant, reactionary"?

These are voters who have had it with Obama -- with trampling the health

care reform with back room deals --

and his failure to suffiently react to the economic crisis -- which he at

one time a few months ago called a "depression."

Thing are worse since them with his attacks on Social Security and now

his back room deals with GOP!

[defendandprotect]

31. DLC/New Dems are certainly to the right of the American people ....

And with Obama support back room deals with GOP and attacks on Social Security

and Medicare that also puts him far to the right of the American public --

Reminder: 76%+ of the American public wanted universal health care -- single payer --

Sorry about your love life --

but this is a liberal nation with a right wing corporate-press --

and elites in control of government -- that's ll.

[tomg]

12. I agree with you, save in

a few minor quibbles. Regarding his character, I think you have it dead to rights. He sees himself as a moderator. He needs to be a negotiator, and if he sees himself that way, i just think he is the most god awful negotiator i have ever seen. The second is Korean Free Trade - and this is where I think he got snookered. You are right that South Korea is not Mexico in 1990. But when North Korea implodes which is going to be much sooner rather than later (it is not in anyone's economic or political interests to let it continue), and a deal is cut with the Chinese to let North and South reunite under a South Korean government - or some kind of a modified governent -, there are going to be one hell of a lot of workers who will work for bupkus. So, in terms of the long-term trade strategy, I have doubts.

Aside from those very minor - if that - quibbles, I think you have it right (well, the center-left part is wrong, but then I come from an area that is pretty left - like Bernie Sanders left).

[dawg]

22. Hadn't thought about reunification.

That could be a problem. But it *would* be a great thing on the balance.

The thing about free trade deals - they are no-brainers *if* and only *if* the gov't of the higher wage nation is willing to offset the cost to its workers, presumably from higher taxes on the winners from the deal.

[tomg]

26. Be nice if when they

set up free trade agreements, they also did it with an eye to establishing international minimum wage agreements locally adjusted ( like that will ever happen).It doesn't have to be solely in terms of higher taxes on the winners from the deal, so much, i think as a combination: higher wages which grows a consumer and middle class in one nation and tax benefits for increased social services, job training and educational, and re-tooling of industries in the other.

Nice also if unions started organizing workers along international lines and thinking like corporations (that is, it isn't about nations anymore - it is about classes - i think corporations figured out the nation state has pretty much had its day).

I do agree that reunification would be great.

[WCGreen]

13. I agree with your premise about Korea....

But we need open access to their markets as well as payments to off set the cost of protecting their country...

[ipaint]

17. Obama's a neo liberal. To his core. nt

[TheKentuckian]

23. The President is a conservative veering toward regressive.

The tax cuts are not stimulative, we've run a ten year experiment and they have failed to do anything but sink the economy. The bulk of the money goes to the 75k and up and they will sit on it for the most part. Meanwhile, most folks will be getting a few extra dollars a paycheck that they will spend but it isn't enough to be a serious stimulus.

I doubt we will get enough lift to offset the interest payments.

The payroll holiday is straight up absurd and right out of the shrink the pig handbook.

[defendandprotect]

33. +1000% -- labels aside, Obama is not good for the nation or the party...

[John Q. Citizen]

27. I do disagree. Obama is center right . Look at his voting record. look at his words.

He had a super majority and yet by his own words he passed a 'Republican health Care bill.' he didn't call it a 'center left' bill. I agree with the president, it does look like a Republican bill to me, also.

Now he wants to unilaterally re-write the social contract.

Neither of my 2 Democratic Senators have taken a side yet on the bill, but NPR says there is a vote on Monday. This is a classic ram it down our throats tactics.

So I guess I disagree about the placement on the line.

By the way, he talks like a center lefty. But that's not what he fights for.

[dawg]

29. You say he talks like a center-lefty.

I believe he *thinks* like one too.

He doesn't fight for leftward ideas. I don't think it's because he doesn't believe in them. I think is 'cause he just isn't a fighter.

[JoePhilly]

35. He did not have the SUPER MAJORITY you speak of ...

Franken was BLOCKED by the GOP for about 6 months ... no super majority.

Then we had 6 months of "super majority" with an ILL Ted Kennedy, and about 5 Blue Dogs ... so much for that super majority again.

I can not understand how folks on the left, who KNOW that there are too many Blue Dogs, continue to maintain a masturbatory fantasy about a SUPER MAJORITY.

[John Q. Citizen]

36. instead of starting from the left and moving to the center, President Obama

started by trading away the public option before any debate. It was traded in back room deals long before bills worked through committees.

There was no debate, there was no honest attempt at a Democratic bill. It was always going to be a Rrpublican bill because that was what was planned from the get go.

[Bluebear]

34. 'He is a center-left Democrat like most of us here.' - like most of us here based on what?

[Tatiana]

37. One of his main problems is that he wants to leave politics out of the Presidency.

Sorry - politics is part of governance. It can be a force for good or evil, but it's there. The last President we had that tried to be above the fray and delegate domestic policy was Eisenhower... a Republican. I see some of the same tendencies here... just like Obama wanted Rahm Emanuel to handle domestic policy (which now, I guess he's got Geither negotiating with Congress on financial matters), Eisenhower dispatched his chief of staff Sherman Adams to handle domestic affairs. Only towards the end of his Presidency did Ike really take a look at where the country was headed if it continued upon the course he helped set.