Why Elizabeth Edwards Left God Out of Her Last Goodbye

[ZombieHorde]

by David Gibson

A dying person's last words are often, and perhaps too easily, held out as the key to understanding all that went before, and so it has been with Elizabeth Edwards.

Her final public message, posted on Facebook, was characteristically eloquent, to the point, and full of grace -- that last word being one that Edwards herself often invoked, and one that was often applied to her, especially as she bore up under so many trials, the last of them the cancer that claimed her life on Tuesday.

But the opening line of her public farewell was especially notable for its careful phrasing (Edwards, who did post-graduate work in literature, was, after all, a student of the novelist Henry James) about matters of the soul: "You all know that I have been sustained throughout my life by three saving graces -- my family, my friends, and a faith in the power of resilience and hope," Edwards wrote.

That she seemed to carefully evade a mention of God or Jesus or things eternal and Christian was striking, and it struck some as "odd," in the words of "American Power" blogger and neocon Donald Douglas.

There is more: http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/12/08/why-elizabeth-edwards-left-god-out-of-her-last-goodbye/

[kestrel91316]

1. Leave it to a dim-witted, narrow-minded bigot of a neocon to think it's "odd"

for someone to not mention a deity in their farewell. These freaks really DO believe that their way is the only way, and that this is and always has been a "christian nation".

Fuck Donald Douglas and his phony piousness.

[ZombieHorde]

2. I know. Some people are disturbed by the thought of someone they admire being godless. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

8. And some people simply go bugfuck when tired old cliches about "no atheists in foxholes"

are disproven, time and again.

[westerebus]

12. WTF?

Just what does her death have to do with atheists in foxholes? Or no atheists in foxholes?

[The Doctor.]

16. Religious types are certain, that In the face of imminent demise, everyone 'finds God'.

Such a thing validates their faith.

The poster was pointing out how the religious nuts hate it when people don't behave the way they feel it 'universal'.

[westerebus]

27. I understand the argument of no atheists in foxholes.

To intrude that disagreement into Mrs. Edwards last statement is piss poor commentary.

She neither defends it or rejects it in her words, nor did she mention it.

To extrapolate her words as a defense of one's own convictions is self serving.

To take a position and defend it with logic and fact is one thing.

To attach a neo-con fascist insight to her death demeans the telling of a simple truth.

That she possessed grace and dignity, embraced honesty and forgiveness.

That even in death, people seek to pit one against another over some god or lack of same.

And to use her death in that argument is pitiful.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. You're not paying attention. The Right Wing Blogger didn't find her death comments sufficiently

faithful.

Whether that makes her an atheist or not, I can't say, nor do I care. However, I am certain that the impetus behind the right wing blogger's critique of Edwards's last words is directly related to a desire to perpetuate that old saw. That was my point.

Witness what happened with Pat Tillman, who not only certainly WAS an Atheist, he also was in a foxhole.

[westerebus]

42. Are you implying Pat Tillman was killed because he was an atheist?

How big a hole you plan on digging?

[Warren DeMontague]

43. What are you talking about?

Pat Tillman most certainly was an Atheist, a fact inconvenient to the people who wanted to use his death as a chance to expound on everything mom-apple pie-n' Jesus. Don't take my word for it; listen to the eulogy given by his brother after John McCain tried to drag "God" into the service.

Now, far be it for me to try and stop you from getting your shorts in a wad over.. whatever, but maybe first you can string together a cogent explanation of what, precisely, outrage (or "hole") you think it is I've committed, here.

[westerebus]

45. Pat Tillman was an atheist.

I don't dispute that.

John Mccain needs to retire to a nice rest home for the slightly loopy while he can still feed himself. Monday would be fine.

The way you posted "witness what happened to Pat Tillman". The man was killed by friendly fire and the Pentagon tried to cover that up.

The question was: are you implying he was killed because he was an atheist?

The hole your digging is using right wing dirt bag bullshit as your starting point.

Or has that thought not occurred to you?

The point of the OP was that David Douglas is a neo-con dick.

Not someone to take into consideration when discussing Mrs Edwards beliefs.

And no where in the OP is there any reference to atheists in foxholes.

That is your conjecture.

Your just waving that neo-con's big red flag that says look she didn't say 'god'.

As though that matters to any body but those who would deny you your rights to believe or not.

Douglas seeks to impugn the nature of her person hood. To present her as someone she was not.

It has nothing to do with atheism.

Or do you not see that either?

[Warren DeMontague]

48. I think you need to switch to decaf.

You're seeing all kinds of shit in my posts that isn't there.

First: Do I believe Pat Tillman was killed b/c he was an Atheist? I never said anything remotely resembling that, and furthermore, I'm not really familiar with all the details surrounding Mr. Tillman's death. I know there's a documentary on the subject, but I haven't got around to seeing it, yet. I am, however, familiar with what transpired after his death, and that was what I was, specifically, referring to.

My point about atheists in foxholes is that 'neo con dicks' such as David Douglas seem to have a vested interest in this narrative of deathbed conversion. I've even seen people repeating that crap, here. What does the topic of the OP have to do with Atheism? Not insofar as I believe EE was an Atheist, although I don't consider it an insult -not even close- to call someone an Atheist (I realize some do)... but, as someone far more to-the-point than myself said downthread, "Anti-atheist bigotry is so deep in the US, even those who are theologically ambiguous are attacked."

It pertains to atheism in that EE was insufficiently pious, on her deathbed, for this shitwit. That is my point.

Now if you want to flip out and imagine that somehow I'm 'using right wing dirt bag bullshit as (my) starting point', fine. Whatever. The starting point is the blog linked in the OP, it's sort of the subject of the thread. Kind of hard to avoid talking about it, grok?

I stand by everything I've said in this thread.

[The Doctor.]

50. Where are you getting all this from?

Really, you think something is happening or being said that is not.

[InvisibleTouch]

38. There's a similar ugly & pervasive myth about Charles Darwin...

...that on his deathbed he recanted his research and became a fundie Christian. Not true. Not even remotely true.

Someone who lives their life with a particular set of beliefs (or non-beliefs) and mindset, is unlikely to become a totally different person in their final hours. I didn't even notice Elizabeth's omission of "God" in her text, because it wouldn't have occurred to me either, were I in the same situation, to write in "God." Leave it to some busybody to point it out and make an issue of it!

[Liquorice]

37. Elizabeth Edwards was not godless. I saw her talk several times about dying and how she

believed she would see her son, Wade, who died in a car accident, again when she died. She said that in some way she was looking forward to it for that reason. She once said her God was a "God who promised enlightenment and salvation." She believed in an afterlife.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. I'm not saying she was.

I'm saying that the inconveniently not-pious-enough (according to the blogger in the OP) expressions she gave have provided an excuse to trot out these old tired saws, again.

[tblue37]

14. Remember--Michelle Bachmann (R-LoonyToons) has criticized Obama because he doesn't

reference God enough in his public statements!

[AndrewP]

22. +1

[Rex]

3. Wow, I guess someone had to come along and question her belief system

no not really, only a soulless monster and we have a HUGE amount of those in supply!

[spanone]

4. 'carefully evade' oh, go fuck yourself mr douglas

[Kalyke]

5. Uh... why would she tell God, "goodbye."?

If one believes in most singular-God-based religions, then Elizabeth would be leaving her earthly body to JOIN God, spiritually, in Heaven. She would be telling Him, "Hello," not "Goodbye."

Even in their protestations, the neocons don't seem to follow logic to its conclusive end.

[ZombieHorde]

9. Good catch. nt

[Kalyke]

17. Ny son and and I love your Zombie "smiley."

LOL!!

[corpseratemedia]

10. +100

that is, if they could count!

[madrchsod]

18. yup...she going high up upon the mountain...

her work on earth is done...

[Union Scribe]

40. Someone should send you post to the author

You wrecked that guy's BS. Well done.

[SmileyRose]

6. The contrast is stark

John says he believes in an intervening God and prays to him on a daily basis. John's ability to do the right thing comes from ouside himself. Ultimately, it was impossible to for him to keep the most sacred of commitments. Clearly asking for the power to do the right thing from an outside being did not help.

Elizabeth specifically stated she does not believe in an intervening God. Which means she took the responsibility and power to do the right thing from within her own self. And she did.

[Bluerthanblue]

23. beautifully said.

I don't and can't fault John for praying.

But I believe it is up to us to live the way we know we should-

:grouphug:

[ZombieHorde]

26. Truth. Ethics have to come from yourself. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Why don't you stand at her grave and lecture her, then, buddy?

Sheesh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I listened to Geraldo Rivera for a few minutes last night

He had a guest on who was claiming that studies prove stress causes a recurrence of cancer. And that's why Elizabeth died, because of the stress of John's infidelity.

I had to turn it off. It was pretty disgusting.

[asdjrocky]

13. This is dumb on so many levels. nt

[TomClash]

15. James Wolcott on Donald Douglas

Who is Donald Douglas? Apart from being a typical conservative blogger with a pig-sty site, he identifies himself as a "a pro-victory Associate Professor of Political Science teaching in Southern California." I have to question the wisdom and quality of any higher institution, even one lodged in Orange County, that would have on its faculty a man who would write, and I quote: "F*** you, ...Self-Hating Skankwad. Go shovel your ****pile of sickening self-said academic superiority somewhere else, you ugly motherf***ing prick."*

As Bertie Wooster once said, These are remarks that verge upon the personal.

Whenever I link to one of these unsavory blogs, I'm asked by those occupying a higher altitude of discourse, Why do you even acknowledge these nothingburgers?

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2010/03/donald-douglas-is-a-doofus.html

Il est mis en vert.

[The Doctor.]

19. Il est mis en vert?

"They are put on green/young"?

My French isn't great, this must be something colloquial I've not encountered. Can you explain it?

[onager]

25. "Relegated to the sidelines" or "disregarded."

I wondered myself.

http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/idioms_maxims_sayings/3890347-mis_au_vert.html

[TomClash]

28. It's like . . .

. . . he's been sidelined, put out of commission.

[The Doctor.]

49. Thanks!

It'll take a year of refreshing before I even think of going to the French Quarter... let alone France.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluerthanblue]

21. this is so stupid- and cruel. People can't even die with grace and

dignity and not be criticized for not doing what other's want or expect.

As far as what "Donald Douglas" thinks of this or any other matter, I'm sorry, but his view doesn't matter. I read what he had to say, and all I can say is that he doesn't speak for "god"- no one does. If he actually believes in the 'god' he espouses, then that cruel, legalistic, self-righteous attitude, and lack of mercy and compassion he displays for others will condem him to the hell he lectures others about.

What a sad, twisted, hypocritical man.

Elizabeth left this world with grace, class, and concern for those she loved and who loved her. Who could ask for anything more?

[ZombieHorde]

24. Anti-atheist bigotry is so deep in the US, even those who are theologically ambiguous are attacked.

[Bluebear]

32. You got that right. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

36. Exactly.

Thank you.

[H2O Man]

29. Ms. Edwards' religious beliefs

were very much on her mind in her final days, as anyone who listened to her funeral understand.

Some people talk about "God." A few others channel the Divine Force. My impressions of Ms. Edwards are that she brought that Force to life.

[DemocratAholic]

30. slippery slope

I think we are going down a very slippery slope when we begin speculating on what people's motives are based on what they DON'T say. Especially in this situation. I'm sure thoughts of "spirituality" were very much on her mind, what those thoughts were may have been something she didn't feel like proclaiming to the world. It's a very personal subject for many people. Perhaps she didn't want her earthly legacy to be mucked up by talking about a such a loaded topic, and something she wouldn't have the opportunity to clear up in case it was misinterpreted.

[Avalux]

31. So...David Gibson is an expert on interpreting the underlying meaning of a person's last words.

He thinks he has the ability to see into Elizabeth's thoughts in hindsight and be able to tell the world what she was really thinking right before she died.

What an ass.

[Dappleganger]

33. Only Elizabeth knows...

And it's hubris to try and guess why.

[ZombieHorde]

34. Agreed. nt

[blueamy66]

39. My Mother succombed to stomach cancer

when I was only 21. That's when I stopped really believing in God.

What kind of God would take a Mother away from a naive 21 year old?

[mulsh]

41. Why is this of any importance? Who cares what the writer thinks?

Jeeze, get a life. None of these blow hards opinions matter in the least.

What ever a dying person wants to say or write at the end is their business. Elisabeth Edwards is and will be admired by many people. Things she did and said will continue to inspire.

The guy who wrote the above "opinion piece" will probably remain as obscure as he deserves.

[old mark]

46. I guess the old idea that a persons beliefs are their own business

is no longer valid...at least for some "religious" people, who don't recall the Pharisee and the Publican parable found in Luke 18 9-14.

Even this old agnostic knows this one.


mark

[SayitAintSo]

47. I find it very offensive that preachers at funerals often try to sell Jesus

instead of just focusing on the life of the person being memorialized.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

51. The xtians are waiting for Christopher Hitchens to find Gawd.

Since he has cancer.

Terribly presumptuous of them.

When my grandmother, a lifelong Methodist died, she said it was all a sham. She didn't believe in god and didn't think there was an afterlife either. And she was happy with that.

My mother and father raised me Presbyterian, but were not really believers. When they died in their eighties, they didn't believe in god either. They didn't think there was a heaven. And they were down with it. Perfectly contented.

Mom's sister, a Methodist, was horrified when I told her that her mother and my parents were not Christians when they died. She gave me a commercial for Jesus on the phone when I called her to tell her that Mom had died.

Because of that commercial for Jesus, I was so pissed that I didn't have a funeral for my mom. My aunt said "If you have a funeral I want to be there" and I didn't want to have to invite her. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was seriously pissed.

That's why I hate going to most funerals -- they are just commercials for Jesus.


:banghead:

[Prophet 451]

52. None of Donald Douglas's business

None of mine either, really. I just hope that whatever belief system Elizabeth Edwards held gave her comfort.