allegedly he had sex with her the next morning perhaps while she was still asleep...

[kpete]

NPR: (the women) describe separate encounters with Julian Assange at a seminar in Stockholm. Were these encounters, as you understand them, things that started out consensually and then took a different turn?

Mr. MARK HOSENBALL (Reporter, Reuters): That's exactly the way I understand things. One of these women was a press officer for his tour of Sweden and was hosting him at her apartment. One thing turned to another and they ended up, as it were, in bed and had consensual sex, as I understand it, with him using a condom. But then at some point the condom broke. And this became a point of contention later on.

Another woman is a woman who allegedly essentially stalked him, became fascinated by watching him on television. Hooked up with him a few days after the first encounter. Took him to her apartment, had sex with him with a condom consensually, but then allegedly he had sex with her the next morning perhaps while she was still asleep, if that's believable, without a condom, leading her to become very concerned later on that he should be tested for sexually transmitted diseases.

She tried to get hold of him, but he had turned off his phone because he was paranoid that people were tracking him through his phone. She eventually got in touch with the first woman who she had not known previously. They compared notes and they ended up trying to track him down ferociously because they wanted him to have medical tests.

BLOCK: The women did eventually go to the police. Did they press charges? Did they go and say, this man, Julian Assange, raped me?

Mr. HOSENBALL: No. As understand it, they just sort of told their stories to police and didn't want him to be prosecuted.

more:
http://www.npr.org/2010/12/07/131884445/The-Swedish-Case-Against-Assange

[thunder rising]

1. Wanna do something ... join the Anti-Capitalists in DoS attacks

Wait a minute ... who wrote that title?
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/12/12/928427/-Anti-Capitalist-Meet-Up-150-Million-and-Growing

[yourout]

2. A little hard to belive don't you think.

[glinda]

10. From personal experience a person always wakes up before ya know...

I find the whole situation a huge fat set of lies.

[EFerrari]

16. They both bragged about sleeping with him.

Then later, when they found out about each other, that's when suddenly that experience became "rape".

[glinda]

71. I know but somehow the US Gov. got involved. Question is when.

[EFerrari]

72. He was likely on a watch list. When the charges were filed

it went into a data base and alerted the State Department. I'd say, they got involved when the charges were dropped and got them re-instated by a political appointee.

[stray cat]

3. Sex you can sleep through -now that's an insult

[Hello_Kitty]

13. I had a boyfriend who did that to me several times.

For that, and many other reasons, I got the hell away from him.

[Violet_Crumble]

18. It's also complete bullshit...

Sorry, but I'm a heavy sleeper and someone would have to be in a coma to claim to have slept through someone having sex with them...

[TorchTheWitch]

47. BULLSHIT

It happened to me. Just because it's not happened to you doesn't make it impossible especially when other people TELL you it happened to them.

[Violet_Crumble]

64. What happened to you? The same thing as happened to Assange's accuser?

Because if not, I'm not sure why yr bringing up what happened to you in relation to it...

[malaise]

79. Not true

Hubby and I still laugh about the night I fell asleep while we were making out. We weren't even married then - I was that tired after studying for 18 hours non-stop.

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. Julian Assange broke a condom?

who knew?

[defendandprotect]

46. Q: Who supplied the condom?

[kenny blankenship]

74. But he's also a very light touch - he could fuck you and you wouldn't even wake up, perhaps,

Yes, all these things are true. In crazy people's heads.

[spanone]

5. 'while she was still asleep'? bwahahahahaaaa

[eleny]

6. +1

[pnwmom]

7. It is probable that she woke up at some point during the act.

But if he was already inside she wouldn't have been able to tell whether he was wearing a condom or not -- which seems to be the bone of contention.

So to speak.

:)

[aquart]

12. You're having a problem with that, too?

[Hello_Kitty]

15. It's a lot more common than you think. eom

[dana_b]

73. yep n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

24. Hey, you guys aren't the only ones having problems with that...

And that she was a stalker type makes it even more problematic...

[lovuian]

8. these women are being used to trump charges on him

to get him to Sweden where they will hand him over to America

of which the NWO shows its far reaching tentacles

thing is this only exposes them more than Wikileaks papers did

[glitch]

9. They are exposing themselves.

And what they have to show us is very ugly indeed.

[Violet_Crumble]

35. One of them has apparently stopped cooperating with the prosecution...

As she's said openly that the sex was consensual, I get the feeling that this has gone beyond anything she can control and she's stepping away from it completely.

[TorchTheWitch]

11. I was raped while I was asleep

And it makes me sick that anyone here would think it couldn't be done. It can. It happens and maybe it happens a lot. It happened to me.

I'm a heavy sleeper. Always have been. And a particularly heavy sleeper when I have gone without sleep for over 24 hours. In my case by the time I woke up it was almost over and was over by the time I realized what had happened. I doubt it took long, but what do I know, I was asleep. I never gave the guy consent, and there was no reason for him to believe that I would nor were there any overtures from him because he was passed out cold on the floor when I fell asleep. I was fully clothed and went to sleep on the sofa - hardly any demonstration of sexual overtures he could have been confused over. But that's not the point, is it? He didn't have consent and never even asked to begin with and took advantage of the fact that I was unconscious.

Don't think it can happen? Think again. When you're unconscious you don't know what is happening to you or by whom and for what purpose. It even may make sense to whatever part of your unconscious mind may be registering it. Sleeping kids get carried to their beds, changed and covered while never waking up nor having any memory of it. So do adults.

Still think it can't be done and that it's amusing? Think about that. Though any civilized and thinking person shouldn't have to.

[EFerrari]

14. What happened to you was terrible.

But there is no indication that happened in this case.

[Pavulon]

17. Cause there has been no trial. only smears by everyone supporting or attacking

some guy based on his actions unrelated these CASES (Plural).

[TorchTheWitch]

39. that's hardly the point is it?

Read the comments in this thread. Quite a number of people find it not only preposterous that such a thing could happen but LAUGH about it. LAUGH.

And in case you still haven't noticed, there is no indication that the allegations in this case DIDN'T happen. But instead of recognizing that and the consequences of victim smearing so ferocious that it brings people to the point where they deny all possibility that such a thing could happen not to just the woman in this case but to ANY woman and LAUGH about it what matters more to you is defending Assange at all costs. You THINK about that. And think about why it is that you aren't shaming those people right here that found such a thing to be impossible and think it's FUNNY. And while you're at it, think about why it is you had to acknowledge what happened to me yet at the same time find it necessary to defend him to ME and do it by refusing to acknowledge that what happened to ME might very well have happened to that woman with Assange.

[EFerrari]

49. That's not right. There are indications it didn't happen.

The strongest ones, of course, are that both women seemed to be very happy about their night with Assange until they found out about each other.

And you might want to reconsider your strong identification with these women who are most likely lying their @sses off.

[TorchTheWitch]

56. you don't know much about how rape victims react do you?

I defended all three of my attackers. Denial and odd behavior are NORMAL for a rape victim. Lucky you that you've never had to live through that personally.

Forget it, you'll still defend him regardless even though you still don't know what happened and for no other reason than because of what he does with Wikileaks.

[EFerrari]

59. You make a lot of assumptions, don't you? n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

66. Um, yr not the only woman to have ever been raped...

And how dare you automatically assume that because a woman isn't agreeing with you on something that she's never experienced rape!

[Le Taz Hot]

77. +1

THANK YOU, Violet_Crumble!

[seabeyond]

55. +1. it pretty much disgusts me, per your words, per your experience.

every single thing you say in this post.

[Violet_Crumble]

20. Sleep and being unconscious are two different things...

Being asleep is not the same as being unconscious at all. While I'd agree that it is very possible to have sex with someone while they're unconscious without them being aware, it's not the same when someone is merely asleep.

[EFerrari]

22. The other thing that makes no sense is the testing bit.

If I suddenly became worried about a one night stand, would it be safer for me to get tested myself or to try to track down the one nighter? :shrug:

[seabeyond]

26. they just had the sex. if he is diseased his would be well established.

theres is a wait and see. YES i would want to talk to the man

[EFerrari]

28. Someone raped you and you want to try to contact him

to ask him about his health status?

Really?

If someone had raped me, he'd be the last person I would want to talk to.

[seabeyond]

40. that is NOT how the story reads and you know it. nt

[EFerrari]

45. Good, then we have the rape charge out of the way.

Does she want to talk to him? Okay. She doesn't get him on the phone. So, she's so worried about STDs, she naturally does the next best thing, she goes to the doctor. Oh, wait. She didn't do that. She went to the police.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

51. How is rationally going through the steps this woman took glorifying anyone?

Maybe it isn't the rationality that is upsetting you.

[seabeyond]

25. do you KNOW she didnt wake up during? she knew he had sex with her, unprotected

obviously at some point she woke up

[Violet_Crumble]

29. Do you want to address what I said in my post?

I said that being asleep and being unconscious are two completely different things. If you want to argue that, go for it, otherwise I'm not sure what yr doing...

[seabeyond]

43. you agree it is possible with unconscious but sleep is different.

that is what i am arguing, but nifty you excluded that out of the NOW argument. hence, i told you how it is POSSIBLE while asleep

[Violet_Crumble]

67. I couldn't understand anything you said...

It sounded like Yoda was talking. Can you translate it so I can understand what yr actually saying? Thanks...

[TorchTheWitch]

42. You have the NERVE to tell ME this?

ME who has been RAPED while ASLEEP???

Why don't you just come right out and say I'm a liar because you don't understand how such a thing could happen? Go ahead. It sure as fuck won't be the first time.

[seabeyond]

44. but it is much niftier to put our heroes on pedestals and slime anyone that dare

tarnish that worship

i cannot believe we have people laughing and going after the women.... even after reading this article.

[EFerrari]

54. Maybe you should go read the tweet Anna Ardin tried to erase

before you continue to call DUers and Assange names.

[seabeyond]

57. the sick thing is you cant get past it and get it.... you are so fuckin busy defending the POS

you cannot even get past it and get it. the tweet is irrelevent to that post. the women didnt scream rape. but you are so busy defending the POS that you give that to them too. you ignore all to defend a POS

[EFerrari]

60. I'm not ignoring anything here. There was no problem

expressed to anyone by two different people until they found out about each other. There is no history of abusiveness on Assange's part and he is 39.

I'm not the one of the two of us who is ignoring facts.

[Violet_Crumble]

69. Actually, I don't see Assange as a hero...

I'm telling you I think the story of 'sex by surprise' stinks to high heaven because it's fully laden with bullshit....

If it's possible to do so coherently, could you explain why you think everyone MUST believe any rape accusation, no matter how ludicrious it is?

[Violet_Crumble]

68. It doesn't take any nerve to point out the fucking obvious...

Being asleep in NOT being unconscious. You appear to have the two confused and being an incredibly heavy sleeper, I know from experience that someone would have to be unconscious, not in a normal state of sleep not to notice a guy having sex with them....

[ZombieHorde]

61. You make a solid argument, and I appreciate your perspective concerning this story. nt

[SidDithers]

19. Hard to give consent when you're asleep...nt

Sid

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tammywammy]

23. +1 n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

27. If she's concerned about disease, she could go get tested...

Being concerned about disease does not make the guy a rapist.

I will fucking laugh at such an obvious set up...

[EFerrari]

30. Well, the woman in question was laughing and bragging the next day.

Yes, it's incredible.

[Violet_Crumble]

32. I know. She was bragging away about it on Twitter and tried to later delete it...n/t

[EFerrari]

37. I've helped two friends through real rapes and this sh!t

just pissses me off.

[tblue37]

65. Yep--the use of rape charges to "get at" someone is one of the

things that makes it harder for women who really have been raped to get people to take their stories seriously.

Also, some acts that Sweden calls rape would not be considered rape anywhere else in the world.

[LisaL]

31. He said, she said.

What evidence is there beyond the allegations?

[EFerrari]

33. The evidence is that these two women didn't express any problem

in their tweets or any where else until they found out about each other some days later.

[LisaL]

36. If they were tweeting, I would really like to see what they were tweeting.

Is there a record of it anywhere?

[EFerrari]

38. It's up on the net. If you search Anna Ardin tweets

you'll find it. I read through it quickly a few days ago but didn't mark the link. Ardin was happy to be with the smartest people in the world and planning to throw a party. :shrug:

[EFerrari]

58. Here's a good article about Ardin that quotes the tweets:

Assange Case: Evidence Destroyed Over and Over Again

Sensational news: extraordinary Internet detective work by Göran Rudling. From 30 September 2010.



One of the women who filed charges against Julian Assange is Anna Ardin. She stood in the elections to the community council for the social democrats and she is a public person who should be examined. So I'll publish her name.

Anna Ardin is christian, feminist, social democrat, animal rights activist, and opponent of abortion on the left political scene. She's previously been in charge of equality issues for the student union of Uppsala University - a job she won an award for. Today she works for the Brotherhood Movement and 'burns for peace and justice... for a just, open society of solidarity'. On her own blog she describes herself:

'A political scientist, communicator, entrepreneur, and freelance writer with special knowledge within faith and politics, gender equality issues, feminism, and Latin America.'

On Saturday 14 August at 14:00 she wrote the following on her Twitter account.

'Julian wants to go to a crayfish party, anyone have a couple of available seats tonight or tomorrow? #fb'


http://radsoft.net/news/20101001,01.shtml

There are hotlink at the link

[Odin2005]

34. The tragic thing about this is that this will make people skeptical of actual rape victims.

These women sound like the fucking misogynistic stereotype of the woman that falsely accuses rape, which makes it smell all the world like a set-up.

[EFerrari]

41. Exactly. Ardin seems like a real manipulator, too, although not as good

as she thinks she is because she left tracks all over the place to be found.

[mentalsolstice]

50. Just this last weekend my SO and I decided to experiment

He would take me "sex by surprise"...and I would cry foul.

So far my mate is 2-0. Or maybe I'm 2-0!

Now I'm not downgrading rape charges...those who know me well, know I take it very seriously.

I'm just saying this case smells to high heaven. Two rape victims find each other and go in together, mmmm oksy?

[seabeyond]

53. Did they go and say, this man, Julian Assange, raped me? NO. nt

[mentalsolstice]

63. From what understand they went in together...

I'm not sure they claimed rape...or just that he was a cad. However, the accusations and charges are confusing. My husband and I were discussing the broken condom...who is responsible for that? When would you know a condom was broken?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

52. He should have had sex with a corpse!

:sarcasm:

[mentalsolstice]

76. I sleep light but dream heavy

It's hard to explain. I'm easy to awake...but my dreams can seem very real. I'll often wake myself talking through a dream. And just a few nights ago I woke up and found myself hitting my husband, who is a heavy sleeper, thankfully. He says he'll wake up at times and I'm jabbering away...not just mumbling, but with real voice inflections, sometimes crying or screaming...yet I'm easy to wake up at the slightest light or sound. OTOH, he is a heavy sleeper and has very little awareness of his dreams. And, yes between the 2 of us we have awoken in the morning to find that we have had sex sometime during the night.

Odd that my dad used to be a sleep walker when he was young...he was once found a couple of doors away one night.

[sabrina 1]

62. If she was asleep, maybe she was dreaming.

They keep adding things. I guess they want to be sure he doesn't get out before they find something to charge him with here.

Funny how these two women didn't know each other before, but managed to get together to go to the police.

I thought you go to a doctor if you think you may have contracted a desease of some sort. I guess in Sweden you go to the police?

[Violet_Crumble]

70. While we're talking about doctors, here's something else...

I would have thought that anyone who sleeps so damn heavy that they can slumber unaware while someone has sex with them would have been straight to their doctor to get their sleep patterns looked at, coz if they can sleep away during sex, something much less disturbing like a fire alarm sure isn't going to break their sleep. I'm wondering if this Swedish woman or anyone else who claims they've slept through sex has been to a doctor about it?

[sabrina 1]

75. Rotfl!

I read in one of the Swedish articles somewhere that she is considered to be 'a little odd'. Now I can understand why!

Lol, 'anyone else who claims they've slept through sex has been to a doctor about it'! :rofl:

[TexasObserver]

78. Assange had sex with two women, one of whom appears was a stalker.

While he's with her but asleep, she checks his phone and finds a call to another woman in the past 24 hours. She writes down the name and number. Later, when she calls Julian, he doesn't respond, so she calls the woman whose name she saw. She contrives a story to justify calling the woman. "I'm concerned about a broken condom and need to talk to him" could be one way to approach the other woman.

It sounds like one of them is a stalker and the other was merely duped and used.

There's nothing about the story that sounds remotely criminal. The claim that one was asleep the next morning and had sex but didn't really consent sounds unlikely.