A fair question for Democrats to ask

[Bandit]

If it were a Republican President presenting this tax plan would we be so supportive? On anything the Administration puts forward now. Ask that question and then blindly support the President.

[mmonk]

1. It's a fair question.

[still_one]

2. At least on DU we are not supportive for the most part. However, if it were a republican president

pushing this plan, the real question is would we blindly not support it because it came from a republican?

You are posing the question for objectivities sake, but it is very difficult for many to be objective.

These tax breaks have been in effect for several years already. Has the unemployment picture improved?

[Bandit]

3. When a Republican President proposed the exact same thing

Democrats were almost unanimous in their opposition.

[gulliver]

4. There is no moral equivalence.

For example, if George W. Bush were still president and forced to the same compromise, he would have been pulling to minimize Democratic benefits of the deal. Of course Democrats should not support the president in that case. On the other hand, Obama sought to maximize Democratic benefits. Of course Democrats should support the president in that case.

There is no question that Obama deserves our support. The only question is whether the deal was, in fact, the best that could be gotten. And I'll definitely trust Obama on that more than a bunch of do-nothing, know-nothing whiners. He's the president. His heart is in the right place. I highly doubt we could have done better.

The only alternative would have been to let the taxes go up and let people lose unemployment in hopes it would "stir the American people to action against the Republicans." People who think that must know a different American people than I know. I think the majority of the American people would be outraged but would blame the Democrats. The new Congress would then have pushed for permanent extension of the Bush cuts, and the unemployed would be eating snow.

[mmonk]

5. In my opinion, you are helping the mind frame in America that any time taxes

move any higher, it takes away from the economy. As deep as this ideology runs, I can find no data that supports it when looking at income tax rates historically. The only saving grace right now is a 13 month extention of unemployment benefits which I think, if push comes to shove, would be passed anyway.

[gulliver]

7. America is so lost it couldn't find a compass with a compass.

I agree that the Obama tax cut deal reinforces the invalid GOP frame about tax cuts helping the economy. The Bush and GOP years in Congress substantially disprove the theory. The political framing remains because, of course, GOP tax cut politics are not really based on the theory that the cuts help the economy. The theory is just the pretext they use to benefit the wealthy and starve the government.

Obama's tax cut deal does allow the GOP to buttress their tax cut conniving. To me, it was Obama avoiding a car chase through a populated area, or, as Obama put it, protecting the "hostages." The bad guys got away with some loot.

[mmonk]

11. You are correct in that sense.

I just still see the car wreck ahead.

[Bandit]

12. I think they did more than just escape with the loot

I think they destroyed everywhere the loot was and all those protecting it..And then Strutted away laughing and joking all the way to their Swiis Accounts..

[earthside]

6. The thought process of ...

... a loser.

That's what happened to Democrats last month because independent voters decided that Obama and Democratic elected officials weren't serious about the economy.

That's what happened to Democrats last month because core progressive voters decided the Obama and Democratic elected officials weren't fighting to keep their own campaign promises.

And in the election of 2012, voters will be asking if Pres. Obama stood tough for them and kept his 2008 campaign promises -- and the answer will be 'no'.

Pres. Palin? Pres. Romney? Majority Leader McConnell? That will be the price of "Read my lips: the Bush tax cuts for the rich must go ... but let's keep them anyway."

[gulliver]

8. Is there an argument in there somewhere? LOL n/t

[That Guy 888]

10. How are you sure the President "sought to maximize Democratic benefits"?

Wasn't it a closed door meeting between the President and goppers?

[ZombieHorde]

9. I would not call it support, I would call it acceptance.

We need to have unemployment extended, and some people do not believe the Republicans will do the right thing.

[Hello_Kitty]

13. I'm seeing a lot more than acceptance here. I'm seeing outright shilling.

I've seen that stupid WH chart showing all the things Dems are supposedly "getting" from this compromise more times than I can count. I'm seeing DUers disingenuously compare what's in this compromise with what would happen if all tax cuts were allowed to expire, as if that's even a possibility at this point. I'm seeing loyalists of the President be snide and condescending to critics of this plan and when that fails, they pull the guilt card. "What about the unemployed?" "What about the children?"

Disgusting. It's not enough to accept this. We're expected to slap happy smiles on our faces and pretend this shit sandwich is chicken salad. Otherwise, we're hurting the President.

[ZombieHorde]

14. I agree there are some people who are more concerned about President Obama's popularity than policy,

but I see this for both pro and anti camps.

I think mentioning the unemployed is reasonable. Unemployment is an issue which directly, and strongly, affects many DUers. If I was relying on unemployment to feed my family, I would be posting about it often.