We are in a scam! How can we (all) protect ourselves?

[brer cat]

We've sold on ebay for over 10 years with 100% positive feedback because we are honest... not perfect, just honest. When we make a mistake, and we have, we admit it, and no loss to the buyer. I guess it was inevitable, but I still cannot believe it. We sold a figural bookend, carefully wrapped it in lots of heavy bubble wrap and peanuts. We got this response:

"The hand was outside of the bubble wrap--completely!! It was sitting directly on top of everything. I find it outrageous that the broken piece could have made it through all that bubble wrap and tape."

So, he posits that I carefully packed a damaged piece in "all that bubble wrap and tape" and then tossed a broken piece on top???? Hello? He is not going to file an insurance claim because he declared my description didn't include a broken piece, so I should refund 100% including shipping.

I've notified ebay, but I understand they always side with the buyer on condition issues. What can you do?

[grasswire]

1. how much $ do you have in it?

Did he send a pic of the damage? I would demand that first.

[brer cat]

2. It was just $105

And you are right. We should have a pix first. But he has sent two emails saying it was damaged before shipping, so I doubt that I will get a reasonable response. The whole thing is just boggling my mind.

[grasswire]

3. I would tell him that when you receive the merchandise...

... returned in the mail, you will refund his money. And then just refund it when you get it, and take the loss if you have to. Kiss the hassle goodbye. Be courteous, but say that it must be returned before you will refund the money -- that is common business practice universally. You have a photo of the item that you used for listing, right? You can defend yourself to any queries if you have to by showing the photo.

Did you check the guy's feedback that he has left for other people? That would be a very good clue about his behavior.

[grasswire]

4. another thought

You could try phoning him to ask him to send the item back. You might get some info about the kind of person he is over the phone. That would take some guts, though. It's probably better for your feedback to just absorb the loss and be professional and courteous.

[brer cat]

5. 36 feedbacks all positive

back and forth. We have 400+, all positive. He wants his money returned BEFORE shipping the item back. Yes, the photos are still posted on ebay plus we have our copies.

[grasswire]

6. how long has he been a member?

I guess if he sends you photos of the damaged item, you could then decide what to do. Is it possible that it was opened and damaged prior to reaching him?

[Neecy]

7. don't do it

First, you have to trust that the item did arrive broken. Since he described a condition that would be almost impossible given how you packed it, I'd be very suspicious.

So, you refund the money and he ends up keeping the item, which is likely perfect. Now you're out the money and the item.

Almost all eBay sellers require the item to be returned before a refund. Stick to your guns, because what he's demanding is ridiculous.

[grasswire]

8. the worst that can happen is one bad feedback from him.

Right? Do you agree? And the counter feedback is a place for explanation of the seller's side.

It is possible the package was opened/raided/ravaged in the mail somewhere. If the buyer truly did get the goods in damaged condition, the package should show outer damage. Maybe he has a photo of the damaged package. At least, he has photos of the damaged item. He hasn't shown that.

If he refuses to provide a photo of the damaged item, then it's pretty clearly a scam. But why would someone with 36 recent good feedback points concoct a scam for $105?

None of it makes sense. Maybe I'll nose around and see if this kind of scam is common.

[Neecy]

11. I'm not sure that's the worst thing...

There are people who prey on the fear of getting bad feedback. This guy seems like one of them.

You can now dispute a bad rating with eBay, and I think they'd side with you if the buyer refused to return the item prior to a refund. You can also add an addendum if he does leave you bad feedback explaining what happened.

I do go by feedback when I buy from someone, but I don't consider that there's much difference between a 99.8% and a 100%. There are quite a few assholes out there. I got caught in a classic scam where a guy listed 40 Palms at a very inexpensive buy-it-now price - I bought one and of course he never delivered (this was a while ago, when people were just starting that particular scam - I'd never do it today). Anyway, about 30 people bought them, we NEVER got our money back, and the guy left us all bad feedback as a final thank-you before he lost his eBay account. It's still on my record, an unbelievable piece of insanity that eBay refused to correct. They do now, probably for exactly this sort of thing.

If the item was indeed damaged, fine. You offered the refund with the very reasonable request that the item be returned first. Now he's bullying you into doing something that almost no eBay seller would agree to. I don't know, but something seems really fishy about this buyer.

[Longhorn]

10. As a buyer, when I see that a seller has less than 100 positive feedback

I read the negative feedback and any replies from the seller. It's usually pretty obvious when the buyer is unreasonable. If I read that something arrived broken and that you offered to refund the money once it was returned to you and that the buyer refused, I would not hold that against you.

[AZBlue]

18. Exactly.

I've encountered a few "crazies" myself on ebay so I know you have to consider the source when looking at feedback.

[Cetacea]

23. Absolutely Not! This is a scam.

I had this happen to me. The buyer claimed the item was broken in a manner which I knew to be impossible. He then refused to return it for a refund, yet kept demanding that I refund him the money. He then complained to Ebay and Paypal. Paypal froze the amount (350.00) until the dispute was settled and I actually won the case.
He then left a negative feedback stating that I tried to "scam" him when in fact the opposite was true. Do not refund until they return the item.

Ebay will back you up. It is unfair for the buyer to expect a refund any other way, and the folks at Ebay know this.

[Dulcinea]

20. That's what I would do too.

Tell him he can have his money back when you get the item back. If it's really damaged, he should have no problem doing that, right? Why would he want to keep a broken item? Ask him that if you have to!

Don't back down. Good luck!

Dulcinea

eBay feedback score: 1388, 99.9% positive

[zabet]

9. Did the purchaser

opt for insurance? If not, do not refund until they return
the item. You are not responsible for the return shipping,
just the original selling price and the shipping to the
purchaser. Keep all communications with this buyer because
if they jump the gun and give you bad feedback, you can show
ebay all the communications and have the feedback removed,
especially if you have accommodated them above and beyond
what is normal.
I sell a lot of glass and insurance is required on all of
my auctions along with delivery confimation. I have not
had anything I sold break during shipping but, have puchased
glass that was broken when it arrived, I always insure, it
just takes a little time to get your refund from the USPS.

edit to add: always put a disclaimer on each listing explaining
insurance requirements and refund policies. When they are
plainly in the item description they cannot be disputed.

[demgrrrll]

12. I have had some unusual experiences over the years. We listed a

red fiesta bowl and the buyer told us the bowl arrived with a crack, our feedback reflects our excellent packing abilities so we were a little surprised. When we received the bowl back we immediately knew it was not our bowl because the crack was old and discolored, but rather than get into a big tussle we grudgingly let it slide.

Then there was the person who said she never "received the package" and wanted a refund. Luckily we used a tracker and were able to prove the package arrived at her home, but not until we had put up with endless emails about the issue.

There are scammers out there I would insist on receiving the merchandise back before I issued a credit.

[grasswire]

13. Here's a thought.

Tell them that you went for advice to your eBay advisory board which recommended that you receive the item and inspect it before issuing any refund. Board=us. Ha!

[Neecy]

15. lol

[Vinca]

14. Tell the guy to file an insurance claim because you know you

sent merchandise in perfect condition. I had a person insist on no insurance one time on a fairly inexpensive piece. Wouldn't you know, the thing arrived with damage. I had about 1,000 positives and no negatives and I sort of freaked about the prospect of getting a negative, but I decided to stick to my guns because I knew I was right. Sure enough, the person left my only negative - so I left one back and accused them of being dishonest. I guess it's up to you, but there are scamsters out there. I know a guy who sold a beautiful teapot for a rather high price and the buyer claimed the lid was missing and demanded her money back. She was just after a lid.

[Horse with no Name]

16. If you have a picture of it in one piece

then let him file an insurance claim.
I sure wouldn't refund his money.

[brer cat]

17. Thanks to all of you.

I appreciate the good advise, and maybe we will all learn from it.

He has not responded to my request for pix, and has said he will return the item ONLY after he is reimbursed for expenses. It WAS insured, it did ship with delivery confirmation. The only thing I forgot to do was take it to my sister's ER and have it xrayed to show it was intact before mailing. LOL

He has ignored my requests to take it to USPS because he insists it had to be damaged before we shipped it. That is one of the odd things about this...why NOT take an insured package with damaged goods back to USPS?

EBay responded with an automated response, so no help there, as expected. I will eventually reimburse this loser, but he is left out there to find others like me who just can't give much effort to solving the problem.

So sad for those of us who really need to make some money selling on eBay.

[hobbit709]

22. I've had a couple of attempts at this on ebay

My response to both of them was that when I received the returned merchandise, I would either replace it it or refund their money-it was their choice. Never heard from either one again. But do NOT refund the money without the merchandise being returned-that makes it look like you are accepting blame. My feedback rating is 255 with 100%

[Onlooker]

26. Why in the world would you reimburse him?

I buy on ebay quite often, and as long as people are rated well into the 90s, I trust them, and I think that's true of most people. Call his bluff. Tell him he has to file a report with USPS, and then you'll take it from there.

[InvisibleTouch]

19. Do not under any circumstances send a refund...

...until your buyer returns the item. If he refuses and leaves a negative, so be it. Then he's stuck with the damaged item (if indeed it even is damaged!), and you have your money. One negative won't change your rating much, and you can add your side of it in a response. Of course it ruins your perfect 100% - I've been there, I remember it very well - but once you get one bogus negative, you won't live so much in fear of getting another, and the next scammer can't play upon your emotions as easily. In a sense, it's a benefit in disguise.

[brer cat]

21. I hear you!

My sister and I have sold on ebay for so long, and we've been honest and friendly. It really hurts to basically be called a liar. But we will probably not be so up tight if we had a negative under our belt.

Interesting development. I had emailed customer service at ebay and copied the emails we had exchanged. I got a rather canned response...buyer and seller need to work together...yadda, yadda. But they did mention that they would email the buyer. Soon thereafter, I got an email from the buyer saying he was going to take the package to USPS to file an insurance claim. hmmmm. Maybe ebay suggested that would be a really good first step before calling the seller out. I still don't know how this will end. I've asked for proof and he has not sent pix or the item back. I will keep you posted. Thanks for your input and interest.

[porphyrian]

24. Are you sure it wasn't opened/damaged in the mail?

And did you send it with insurance?

[blondie58]

25. that is a tough one

but it does sound like he is trying to scam you.

I am a letter carrier and I have seen some crazy things happen. Sometimes a large and heavy package damages a small one lying underneath it, etc. I always suggest if it is breakable, to take out insurance. Sometimes no matter how careful you are, things happen.

I would also insist that he either send it back, or send you a picture of it. Good luck- yeah, and one negative feedback won't hurt you.