Chavez 'wins' Venezuela referendum

[bemildred]

Source: al Jazeera

Exit polls in Venezuela's referendum indicate that Hugo Chavez, the president, has won support to scrap term limits for elected officials, including himself.

Several pollsters gave the "yes" vote between 53 and 60 per cent on Sunday, meaning that Chavez could seek re-election indefinitely.

Polling stations remained opened past the official closing time to allow all voters already in line to cast their ballots.

More than 16 million Venezuelans were eligible to vote "Yes" or "No" in the fifth referendum since Chavez was first elected in 1999.


Read more: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/02/200921602959722265.html

[Idealism]

1. As long as each election is deemed free and fair,

as they have been in the past by the U.N. and the Carter Center, I have no problem with this.

[L. Coyote]

92. Gotta love rule of the People in a real democracy like Venezuela. Bush helped pass this

thanks to his failed attempt to overthrow the democracy.

:rofl: Because Chavez isn't a Republican :rofl:

[Mika]

2. Dictator for life now.

Someone had to say it. :evilgrin:

[EFerrari]

6. LOL!

:spank:

[hack89]

25. Do you really expect him to ever give up power? nt

[Robbien]

26. Yup.

But right now the only people running against Chavez are people who are supported by the US and who are in it to get rich and privatize Venezuelan resources.

[mecherosegarden]

44. That is so not true!

You should get your facts straight.

[EFerrari]

27. No. All dictators give themselves up to free, open and transparent elections.

Bush did. Oh, wait.

[Mika]

28. How can you not see?

Like the Castro brothers, Chavez has no power. The power rests in the hands of the Venezuelan people. They didn't elect a dictator. (Ask Carmona and his crew.)

[hack89]

29. So Cuba choose 40 years of Castro? OK nt

[davidinalameda]

30. they have free and open elections in Cuba and everything

you didn't know that??????

:sarcasm:

[hack89]

32. So I am told. nt

[Mika]

33. But you don't know.

You haven't been there. You've done near zero research. Guess that makes you an "expert" in Booshworld.

[davidinalameda]

52. I don't have to go to the sun to know that it's hot

let me ask you a honest question-why have thousands of Cubans risked their lives to escape over the past 40 years if Cuba is such a wonderful country?

[Mika]

62. WTF do you mean by "such a wonderful country"?

Cuba has what most of the socialist democracies of Europe have. Sorta like Canada. Of course, Europe and/or Canada don't have to endure a US extra terrirorial embargo that Cuba does. Lots of Canadian here. Lots of Brits here and Germans here and French here and... and ...

Back to your RW-talking-point-all-too-often-answered-then-asked-again question...

Cubans come to the US for the same reasons the US is (or was) the #1 destination for the world. In a word. Jobs.

Except that Cubans are granted special immigration perks that are offered to no other immigrant group seeking entry into the US.

Immigrants come to the US from all over the world - from democratic countries. They come here for opportunities to earn more money than they could back at home. They come to work so that they can send a little of their earnings back to their relatives. It has little to do with "despotic' regimes, it has more to do with earning power.

Cuba is a special case though, in that it is the US's Helms-Burton law (and a myriad of other sanctions) that are specifically intended to cripple the Cuban economy. This is the stated goal of the US government, as evidenced by the Bush* admin's latest 'crackdown' on family remittances to Cuba and increased sanctions on the island and US & foreign corporations that seek to do business with Cuba (and we're waiting to hear about some revising of those policies, but so far, nothing).

The USA currently offers over 20,000 LEGAL immigration visas per year to Cubans (and the Bush admin announced that the number would increase despite the fact that not all 20,000 were applied for in the last few years). This number is more than any other single country in the world. The US interests section in Cuba does the required criminal background check on the applicants.

There's plenty of legal means for Cubans to come to the US.

The US's 'wet foot/ dry foot' policy (that applies to Cubans only) permits all Cubans, including Cuban criminals and felons, who arrive on US shores by illegal means to remain in the US even those having failed to qualify (or even apply) for a legal US immigration application.

Cubans who leave for the US without a US visa are returned to Cuba (if caught at sea - mainly in smuggler's go-fast boats @ $5,000 per head) by a US/Cuban repatriation agreement. But IF they make it to US soil, no matter who they are or what their criminal backround might be, they get to stay in the US and enjoy perks offered ONLY TO CUBAN IMMIGRANTS (via the US's Cuban Adjustment Act and a variety of other 'Cubans only' perks)

For Cuban migrants ONLY - including the aforementioned illegal immigrants who are smuggled in as well as those who have failed a US background check for a legal visa who make it here by whatever means - the US's Cuban Adjustment Act instantly allows any and all Cuban migrants who touch US shore (no matter how) instant entry, instant work visa, instant green card status, instant social security, instant access to welfare, instant access to section 8 assisted housing (with a $41,000 income exemption for Cuban expats only), instant food stamps, plus more. IOW, extra special enhanced social programs designed to entice Cuban expatriation to Miami/USA.

Despite these programs designed to offer a 'carrot on a stick' to Cubans only, the Cubaphobe rhetoric loop repeats the question "why do Cubans come to the US then?", like you have - again.

First the US forces economic deprivation on Cubans, then open our doors to any and all Cubans illegal or not, and then offer them a plethora of immigration perks and housing perks not even available to native born Americans.

But yet, more immigrants come from Mexico and the Latin Americas than do Cubans, and they have no such "Adjustment Act" like Cubans do. But they still pour in.

Plus, Cuban immigrants can hop on a plane from Miami to Havana and travel right back to the Cuba that they "escaped" from for family trips and vacations - by the hundred of thousands annually (until Bush's recent one visit every 3 yrs restrictions on Cuban expats living in the US).

Recognizing the immorality of forced starvation and forced economic deprivation is a good reason to drop the US embargo on Cuba, the US Cuban Adjustment Act, and the US travel sanctions placed on US citizens and residents. Then the Cuban tourism economy (its #1 sector) would be able to expand even faster, thereby increasing the average wage and quality of life in Cuba. It would make products, goods, and services even more accessible to both Cubans and Americans. It would reduce the economic based immigration flow from Cuba. And it would restore our own constitutional right to travel unfettered to see Cuba for ourselves.

[IndianaGreen]

65. Stop feeding the provocateur!

He'll just laugh about it with his rightwing and reactionary friends in those chatrooms and websites that cannot be mentioned in polite company.

[davidinalameda]

84. social democracy like Canada?

:rofl:

that's the funniest thing I've seen on here in such a long time

people do come here from democratic countries but generally not tied to a raft after crossing 90 miles of open ocean

[Mika]

141. Ok. You don't agree with that point. How about addressing the points in answer to your question.

You are greatly mistaken in your comment about the numbers of people coming to American shores by raft. I live in Miami, and they wash ashore from non-embargoed democracies all over the Caribbean here. Only the Cubans get to stay (and they get those perks too).

Also, regarding taking risks to come to the USA, you might want to check this.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_deaths_along_the_U.S.-Mexico_border

[Judi Lynn]

144. Anyone who bothers to check the papers in Florida was aware of Caribbean migration long ago, right?

Not only do they come here from other islands, they go to other islands, too.

I've noticed, checking The Miami Herlad that they sometimes get in trouble at sea trying to get from the Dominican Republic to Puerto Rico, and from the islands to Central American countries. Many people learned a long time ago Haitians have been going to Cuba for years, and have a very substantial population there, even with their own radio station, etc.

It's unbearable hearing people who haven't bothered to become informed on these matters bellowing their opinions which are woefully flawed, twisted, bizarre, since they don't relate to reality. Anyone with a sense of self-respect wouldn't want to make a total fool of himself again and again.

The part about risking their lives, when some of the people washing up in Miami have come from as far away as 700 MILES only to be chased down and imprisoned, then deported while Cubans stay, and are given automatic legal status, green card, social security, food stamps, US taxpayer-financed Section 8 housing, medical treatment, financial assistance for education, etc., etc., etc. is almost too hideous to consider. If those same people who keep getting deported were offered all those benefits, we would have been so crowded in this country with immigrants taking even GREATER chances than the 90 mile trip from Cuba, we'd be packed like sardines in our country!

[Diclotican]

83. davidinalameda

davidinalameda

If the United States of America had played by the same rule book, as most european country have been doing, when it come to trade and such, then Castro and CO would not possible have been sitting for 40 year... If US had not been treating to kill a leader they do not kill more than 1000 times since 1959, even in New York City when Castro was there to talk to the UN Main body, then "might" the US and Cuba would have had a far better working attitude - and maybe even the future of Cuba had been something different than it have been for the last 30 or so year at least.. Maybe even some of the property that was been nationalized in the early 1960s had been in the hand of the same companies who have had treated the cuban people as mer slaves for almost 300 year.. You doesn't know that do you, that Cuba was no more than easy, inexpensive slavery for the companies who once owned 90 percent of Cuba..

I know that the current regime in Cuba have not been that good, and that they have not doing what they once was promising the cuban people - and that many things, if not most things in Cuba have not been perfect by far for more than a decade.. But it is an opening in Cuba today. Fidel Castro are not in power anymore, he is ill and old. And the brother Raul is far more pragmatic when it came to freedom and liberty.. He is beginning to talk about election, at first in municipalities, but if everything goes right, then maybe on a national stage... And he is meaning more or less a democratic election, not a "hey we vote for the same dude, because he is so lovely and a man I can take a bear with" as US did in 2000 and in 2004... In the face of the world, the moral ground of US have been falling long way since the election of mr Bush in 2000... And before You should lecture the rest of the world, you should try dam harder to fix the wrongs in your own election system... They are many and plentifull..

How long do you believe CASTRO would have survived if US was to stop the embargo tomorow..?. A Month, 6 months.. Maybe a year, but no more than a year. Why.. Because the cuban people is not stupid regarness of what many in Miami and Florida sees to believe today. The Cuban people is educated (far better than they was when your friend Batista was ruling the country, and the infancy death rate was 3 in 5 children, and the ill irate was more than 70 percent). And would have all resources to make Cuba one of the more successfully country in the Caribbean - if the US was not to try to "take back" what they lost in 1959.. I know many cuban-american who fled the country in the 1960s still believe they could just take their property and trow they who live there out. That will never happened, and that is one of the main reason the embargo is still active..

If the US was playing by the book and doesn't influence Cuba, you would have a good friend and a good place to visit when you want to have a Holiday I guess.. But that means YOU have to stop the embargo, and work WITH the government of Cuba. And that is something that millions of exile cubans in Miami and such never Will do. They would rather try to starve the country to submission, than to admit that Cuba are a free country, and deserve to have a better future than past - even if i means they have to give up their claims to things in Cuba.. Often they claim it, but doesn't have the document - it somewhat is destroyed when they have to leave the country. And the fact is that many of them who first was leaving Cuba, in the early 1960s was criminals, who had supported Batista and off course made a killing of it.. But when that possibility ran out, they just turned cloth, and was running for their life, to US where they at least, had a comfortable life, with stolen money from Cuba.. Mr Baptista himself, got the whole Treasury for himself, and ended up in Florida where he lived all life in more luxury than most american could dream off in the same time..

Diclotican

[Eryemil]

105. Maybe because it's a poor country and poverty sucks? Novel concept I know

If you think it has anything to do with politics you are delusional. And I tell you this as a Cuban immigrant, though I no longer live in the US.

[Captain Hilts]

131. Your comment makes you a 'sucker' in the real world. nt

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DBoon]

67. There have been far worse dictators

nt

[BrightKnight]

72. He is not a dictator. He just needs more time to consolidate power. - n/t

[Eric Condon]

73. Well, a dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, as long as he's the dictator.

:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

81. So free elections is dictatorship and FDR was a dictator?

So was FDR a dictator when he was elected for four terms.

The Constitution should not have been changed with forbid more than two terms for a President.

[bluestateguy]

3. If this was the people's choice, then so be it

If they had a fair election, then we must respect their decision.

We don't have to like it, but it is not our decision.

[BradNYC]

53. Are you f*cking kidding???

Chavez murders his dissenters (like the head of the University group) and intimidates. He buys votes, and he lies to people. He is nothing but an egomaniac. He does not have the best interests of the Venezuelan people at heart. This is why anyone with a conscience and education is leaving Venezuela.

[Judi Lynn]

71. Why didn't you follow the investigation? Chavez murdered that scum?

You're wildly off base.

Your 32 year old skinhead lumpy "school boy," Julio Soto, with an enormous bank account over 1,000,000.00 which attracted the investigators attention, who followed it long enough to discover he was involved in stolen cars, drugs, and black market sales of the tickets the government issues for the benefit of students so they can use the buses at discount rates, was outed long, LONG ago, back in October, and not long after the investigation started.

http://www.versionfinal.com.ve.nyud.net:8090/66/6/juliosoto.jpg http://www.radiomundial.com.ve.nyud.net:8090/yvke/files/img_noticia/t_julio_soto_402.jpg

Little fascist "schoolboy" Julio Soto.

Your kind of people leaving Venezuela are assholes, not patriots. There's a very wealthy contingent of Venezuelans with 2nd homes and apartments, etc. living in South Florida who have combined forces with the right-wing Cuban fascist assholes. When the rest of the world was in the streets protesting filthy _Bush's treacherous, murderous, and utterly FALSE war on Iraq, your chosen people were in the streets the same day in Miami conducting an anti-Chavez parade, featuring two men who were involved in the coup against Hugo Chavez, which the Venezuelan people overturned, and the job lock-out strike by management, which attempted to cripple the economy to the point it forced Hugo Chavez out of office.

[L. Coyote]

94. Right on. Let's put this in perspectve. In my village US Army Rangers killed the people!!

It wasn't Hugo Chavez loading the liberals on planes and throwing them out over the jungle!

The People of South America know who runs the Death Squads!!!

It is real easy to sit inside the walls of the USA and think you know the truth.
Try living in South America for a while, and figuring out the facts and the True History, 500 years of this crap!!!

George Bush Sr. May Face Charges: Conspiring to Kidnap and Murder Political Activists
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2459135

[EFerrari]

102. They tried to push this story hard in the ho media.

This kid was a thug, trafficking in student mass transit passes and he got clipped by his thug colleagues.

[catnhatnh]

128. Hmm, the grandfather steals Geronimo's skull....

the father aids the locals with frequent flyer miles (flap your arms now) and the son kills over a million Iraqis...these people really dislike indigenous peoples don't they?

[L. Coyote]

93. Bye!

[bluestateguy]

109. I don't like Chavez

I hope the people of V'zuela come to their senses about him someday, but the people made their choice, and we have our own problems here to worry about anyway.

[EFerrari]

112. He's cut their poverty rate in less than half since 2003.

I hope we do as well in the next five years.

[Medusa]

135. According to him.

Dictators aren't exactly known to be foutains of truth. Fidel claims they have free health care in Cuba-and they do, just so long as you don't want medicine or surgery or anything you know, vital to getting well. :eyes:

[EFerrari]

136. According to the UN. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

113. Yeah, the people who've known him, and loved him since long before he ran for office

probably don't know what they're doing, do they?

Too bad they don't have the benefit of your great intelligence, and vision for their OWN country.

[New Dawn]

4. Great news. We should eliminate term limits too. The framers of the US Constitution opposed them.

And Dubya never would have became president if the US did not have term limits.

[Captain Hilts]

14. VERY true. Bubba would definitely run and won a 3rd term. Every poll said so. nt

[hack89]

34. So would have Reagan. nt

[Captain Hilts]

35. Yes. No GHWBush. nt

[rcrush]

41. In Watchmen Nixon is still president in the 80's

cause he repealed term limits lol but he had a blue nuclear man to win wars for him to.

[Hippo_Tron]

69. Reagan's age would've been a serious issue in '88

[L. Coyote]

95. Unless, of course, he would have forgotten too! Get real, he had Alzheimers.

[DissedByBush]

48. Nope

At least Jefferson, Franklin, Mason and Lee thought the absence of term limits was dangerous. They were right.

[New Dawn]

57. Read The Federalist Papers, specifically #LXXII

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/FEDERAL/ch72.html

"Nothing appears more plausible at first sight, nor more ill-founded upon close inspection, than a scheme which in relation to the present point has had some respectable advocates -- I mean that of continuing the chief magistrate in office for a certain time, and then excluding him from it, either for a limited period or forever after. This exclusion, whether temporary or perpetual, would have nearly the same effects, and these effects would be for the most part rather pernicious than salutary.

One ill effect of the exclusion would be a diminution of the inducements to good behavior."

...

"Another ill effect of the exclusion would be the temptation to sordid views, to peculation, and, in some instances, to usurpation."

...

"A third ill effect of the exclusion would be, the depriving the community of the advantage of the experience gained by the chief magistrate in the exercise of his office."

...

"A fourth ill effect of the exclusion would be the banishing men from stations in which, in certain emergencies of the state, their presence might be of the greatest moment to the public interest or safety."

...

"A fifth ill effect of the exclusion would be, that it would operate as a constitutional interdiction of stability in the administration."

[bemildred]

121. Indeed, and thank you.

Such a provision was not omitted by accident, it was thoroughly discussed. There is so much bullshit promoted by the "States Rights" and weak government crowds you could drown in it. The issue is not power, or duration in office, the fundamental issues are accountability and transparency. Power is what allows one to do things, and duration in office is what allows one to carry them out. Term limits is a weak and ineffective substitute for free and fair elections and transparency in government.

[DissedByBush]

125. So you have Alexander Hamilton against limits

How many did I mention who thought the possibility of unlimited time in office is dangerous?

Hamilton was always for a very strong central government, the kind that Bush took advantage of, which is not the way this country was set up.

[Captain Hilts]

130. I agree with Hamilton here. He really was 'John' to Jefferson's 'Paul'. nt

[bluestateguy]

111. Oh God no

Reagan would have wom a third term in 1988 with term limits, no doubt.

[IndianaGreen]

5. I am leery of exit polls

Remember how AMLO led in the Mexican elections?

El Universal doesn't have any results posted yet.

http://www.eluniversal.com/index.html

[EFerrari]

8. Me, too. Just got back from errands. After the Bush thefts,

it's hard to trust exit polls.

[silverweb]

7. Congratulations, people of Venezuela!

You are fortunate to have a leader you are so pleased with, who is doing so much for you, the people.

I hope that President Chavez and President Obama are able to meet in due course, and establish a new kind of understanding and friendship... the first of many renewed friendships with Latin America.

[mecherosegarden]

9. A sad thing

If that is true!

[IndianaGreen]

11. If referendum passes, Chavez will still have to face the voters for reelection

What is it about freedom and democracy that freaks out Americans? We only approve of those elections in which "our guy" wins? Hamas won free and democratic elections in Gaza, and it was demonized for it.

American 'freedom and democracy' a fraud, a slogan used to fool the populace. I spit on it!

[bitchkitty]

82. Hey, not all Americans!

Only those Americans who are fascists in disguise, or have IQs that equal my waist size (I'm skinny). ;)

[L. Coyote]

129. Deja DU: Venezuela and Iraq. It's the same issue, Stupid.

Dec-02-07: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2389038

===================
All this is happening in a long historical context of US interference in other nations.
The so-called "War on Terror" is just a ruse to hide the same old time-worn politics of the right.

Scenario:

A national leader, no matter how democratic or dictatorial--that's not an issue, has control over a vast portion of the world's oil reserves.
The NeoConservatives are hell-bent on wresting control of natural resources from the control of nations, transferring ownership to the private domain.

Methods = Same old well-worn crap from some old CIA manual (with examples):

Demonize the leader (Castro).
Disrupt the economy (Nicaraguan and the Reagan/Bush Contras).
Finance any insurgents, no matter who (Osam bina Laden).
Send in the covert ops pros who fix or interfere with elections (Venezuela).
If no elections, overthrow the bastard (Iraq).
If a liberal takes control, shoot him (Allende).

Past Successes:

Arbenz, Guatemala (reverses nationalization of land).
Somoza, Nicaragua (long-standing dictator suppresses own people).
Pinochet, (tens of thousands murdered by US installed dictatorship)
The Shah, Iran (nice oil, thanks).

the list is long ....

Solution:

VOTE the NeoCons out of power in the USA (unless, of course, the pros who fix elections are working here too).

On edit: Unintended typo corrected. Purposeful typo retained to bypass the automated word search surveillance of the entire Internet

[msongs]

10. hitler was elected by popular vote. that worked out well lol nt

[IndianaGreen]

12. The Rightwinger''s whine, comparing Hitler to Chavez!

Pathetic!

[EFerrari]

19. That's just sad. lol

[Peace Patriot]

20. "...by popular vote" and a lot of brownshirts beating up voters and stuffing ballot

boxes. Venezuela, on the other hand, has one of the most highly praised and most transparent election systems in the world--far, FAR more transparent than our own. And they just held an entirely peaceful election, nationwide, with excellent voter participation, to settle this matter once and for all. Early reports are that "Yes" has won and term limits on all offices will be lifted.

You want to worry about "dictators"? Worry about the one that Diebold & brethren can easily--EASILY!--install here in 2012, if and when the Financial 9/11 that the Bushwhacks just pulled off results in civil disorder, which could well be the plan.

Now tell me, how does President Chavez resemble Hitler? Who has he invaded? Who has he tortured? Who has he harmed in any way? Where are his vast armies threatening the region? (The only vast armies threatening the region are ours and the Colombian military and associated rightwing death squads!) Where are the brownshirts? Where are the ballot box stuffers? There are nearly 100 international election monitors in Venezuela observing the whole process, and pronouncing it open and above-board, free of intimidation, peaceful and transparent.

You think that, just because a president with a 70% approval rating, wants to run for a third term, he is a Hitler? What do you think of FDR's third term (and fourth) back before the Republicans rammed term limits through, in the mid-1950s, to prevent any "New Deal" from ever happening here again? Why do you begrudge Venezuelans' their "New Deal"? They have certainly suffered from a Rotten Deal for a very long time--at the hands of their own rightwing, oil elite and the U.S. government. If they want a strong, FDR-like president to overcome all those years of corruption, exploitation and abuse and neglect of the poor, why shouldn't they have it? What is your objection?

[The abyss]

68. Peace Patriot…

Why is it that every time I check out a thread I find you literally driving a nail with one blow?

Wow!

You speak well! Good words!

[Idealism]

21. Why regurgitate right-wing talking points?

They use that to describe Obama currently, and you use that tired canard to compare to another country's leader why?

Disgraceful.

[Warren Stupidity]

39. getcher facks strate

Adolf was never elected in a fair election by popular vote to anything. Hitler was appointed Chancellor. His appointment was based on a nazi party plurality in the legislature, but they never managed a majority. Even then, Hitler and his thugs had to use emergency powers to eliminate the socialist opposition in order to consolidate their control of the government. It is a very poor example of the purported dangers of democracy, but one that is quite popular in rightwing world mythology.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

40. No he wasn't. nt

[AlphaCentauri]

43. and he was a right wing zealot n/t

[rpannier]

64. I thought it was von Hindenburg that was elected

Hitler was named by von Hindenburg to the #2 spot

Hitler became leader only after the death of von Hindenburg

[Diclotican]

85. rpannier

rpannier

Not exactly. Hitler and more to the point NSDAP won the majority in Reich tag, the German Parliament in 1933, with 32,7 of the votes, Hitler was not eligible for vote in 1932-33 because of his status. He was not exactly a German, he was still an Austrian by birth, and it was not possible for him in 1932, when the NSDAP won almost majority in Reich tag to be elected. He was made "honour citizen" of Meclenburg in the same year, and therefore could stand as electable in the 1933 election. Who they won, just in time to not be taken to cort because of unpaid bills.. They owed more than 40 million Reich marc to many who they had lend money of, but after 1933 it was no point of claiming the money back anyway.. Then Hitler had the STATE behind him, and could get rid of his creditors as he pleased... january 20 1933 he was elected to the office of Chansler of the Reich (yes, they used that name then) and he was elected to work with other conservatives who on their own dosen't had have enough power on their own to make chancellery.. Hindenburg was at first (1930-33 not pleased at all with the prosecute of Hitler made Chansler. He was not found of his means, and that he was using the streets to fight a type of war... In fact he once claimed that the only thing HE wanted to get Hitler to be, was as chief of the post system in Berlin.. No where the rank of chanslor.. But he was old, and sick, and beginning to be senile to, so he was no match when Hitler and Co was starting to really push for the final push to power..

And in 1934 when Hindenburg died, Hitler who played his role very vell, claimed that in respect for Hindenburg the position of President in Germany, that was the highest office in Germany until then, should not be used any more, but rather the combined office of the the german chansler and the Nazi Fuhrer..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad english, not my native language.

[rpannier]

97. Thank you for the info

Understood completely

No apologies necessary

[Diclotican]

100. rpannier

rpannier

:) I am one of this "history buffs" who often was sitting in the libery when the others was playing soccer...

Diclotican

[ronnie624]

91. That false meme really gets old sometimes.

Although Hitler lost the presidential election of 1932, he succeeded Hindenburg as head of state only two years later, when Hindenburg's death brought his term to a premature end in 1934. After the president's death Hitler abolished the office entirely to replace it with the new position of Führer und Reichskanzler ("Führer and Reich Chancellor"), and cement his dictatorship.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_presidential_election,_1932>

[ohio2007]

13. Exit polls

[Poll_Blind]

15. Didn't we allow this sort of thing in the U.S. for 175 years?

Until '51 when the 22nd Ammendment was passed?

PB

[IndianaGreen]

16. GOP didn't want another FDR so they passed the 22nd amendment

which they regretted when they got Ike and Reagan, who could have run for a third term.

[DissedByBush]

47. It was tradition until FDR

The idea of term limits to prevent someone getting too powerful is as old as ancient Greece, and they are a good idea. Here term limits were written into of many parts of government, only they weren't written into the Constitution. I guess they thought the people were smart enough not to let a president stay any longer than the example set by George Washington. After FDR the people realized that a president may actually try to stay in power indefinitely, so they stopped it.

[IndianaGreen]

54. Sure, FDR could have turn the country over to the Nazi-loving GOP in 1940

They would have lifted the embargo on Imperial Japan and denied assistance to England, plus they would have all adopted some of Hitler's anti-labour policies in the US, among other things.

[EFerrari]

17. Andale! Que viva Venezuela!

lol

[AlphaCentauri]

45. LOL

:rofl:

oops! I did not recognized you with your new nick

:hi:

[EFerrari]

139. But the gloating gave me away!

lol

I can't help it. Venezuela managed to survive BushCo! Milagros! :hi:

[Eryemil]

107. Es lo mejor que le abria poder pasado a este país

[IndianaGreen]

18. OFFICIAL: 6,003,544 voted Yes (54.36%) and 5,040,082 voted No

Chavez wins!



9:37 pm CNE anuncia primer boletín oficial con 6.003.544 votos a favor del Sí (54,36%) y 5.040.082 votos para el No (45,63%) y una abstención relativa de 32,95%.

http://www.eluniversal.com/2009/02/15/cenmi_esp_minuto-a-minuto_15A2227231.shtml

[Peace Patriot]

22. Thanks, IndianaGreen! I'm glad it went peacefully, and that term limits are gone.

If we had had term limits here, prior to the 1950s, we would have been denied the solidification of the "New Deal" in FDR's third and fourth terms, as well as his leadership during WW II. Our own Founders opposed term limits as anti-democratic. (Why should the people be denied their choice of leaders?, they asked.) The people of Venezuela have chosen wisely, in my opinion. Now they can solidify their progressive gains, continue their regional leadership on economic/political integration and feel more secure with a strong and experienced progressive leader at the helm, whatever our corpo/fascists may throw at them.

And I fervently hope that this puts an end to U.S. meddling in Venezuela, Bolivia and other progressive countries. It is not only bad policy, it won't work. The people of South America are not going to take it any more. They have made that very, very clear, over the last year.

[mecherosegarden]

49. I have family and friends in Venezuela

None of them is rich and for many, the living conditions got worse since Chavez won. There is no health care for the poor; if they have rice, they don't have milk, if they have milk, they don't have sugar...
And now, Chavez is going to stay in power until he dies . Today is a sad day for Venezuela!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[EFerrari]

89. Poverty had gone down steadily in Venezuela for the last ten years.

[TomClash]

23. At least the people voted - unlike NYC

Where the will of the People was thwarted by Billionaire Berlusconi/Bloomberg and the 29 City Council members who can't get any other job.

[Billy Burnett]

24. Are y'all watching the live coverage of the celebration?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3740665

:hi:

[NeoConsSuck]

36. Why did you put the word 'wins'

in quotes?

The headline did not have the word in quotes.

[bemildred]

38. It did when I posted it.

Calm down, they changed it.

Edit: I never change the headlines, I always cut and paste.

[maddezmom]

126. originally the headline did have it in quotes

Chavez 'wins' Venezuela referendum
Aljazeera.net, Qatar - 14 hours ago
Exit polls in Venezuela's referendum indicate that Hugo Chavez, the president, has won support to scrap term limits for elected officials, including himself ...

http://news.google.com/news?sourceid=navclient&rls=DGUS,DGUS:2006-26,DGUS:en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tab=wn&scoring=n&q=Chavez+%27wins%27+Venezuela+referendum&sa=N&start=60

[AyanRand Is Dead]

37. Oh dear...

We often do get the government we most deserve...

[DissedByBush]

42. Next step, dictatorship

Nothing will stop his continual consolidation of power without term limits.

[IndianaGreen]

50. Really? How come the bulk of the media is privately owned and against him?

Colombia's Uribe (a friend of Fox News) got rid of term limits and he didn't bothered to follow constitutional procedure.

Shove your righwing talking points in the you-know-where!

[DissedByBush]

124. That answer made no sense whatsoever n/t

[EFerrari]

140. Yes, it does. When 70% of the media is owned by the oligarchy

that is a big impediment not only to consolidation of power, but to democracy itself.

[kwenu]

46. I had a feeling he wasn't going to leave even if the referendum had failed anyway.

[rucky]

51. What's with the air-quotes around "wins"?

[bemildred]

56. Please see post #44. nt

[CLANG]

55. Big mistake, people...

[BradNYC]

58. Glad "wins" is in quotes

Chavez murders dissenters and lies to the people. Very likely, he rigs the election. This is not democracy. This is dishonesty and a power grab. This is not a good man. He is ruining Venezuela, which is why all educated Venezuelans who are able, are LEAVING Venezuela.

[IndianaGreen]

75. And you have been listening to Rush Limbaugh!

I'll bet you think Vince Foster was murdered too!

:rofl:

[L. Coyote]

132. You are now talking to a Tombstone!!! That WAS Rush. LOL

He keeps logging in with new names, but the guy can't control his pie hole :rofl:

[Andrushka]

77. Er, pshaw he does

I'll go easy on you as it's your 2nd post, but frankly, you are full of BS. Care to back up these claims (particularly the "he murders dissenters" one?)

Congrats to Venezuela!! Viva Chavez.

[Zhade]

59. What's with the bullshit headline?

NT!

[EFerrari]

86. It was the original headline. n/t

[shellgame26]

60. If that's who the people want

then that's who the people frickin want! This man had to live through 8 years of attempted CIA coups all for the unforgiveable crime of nationalizing the country's oil.
Now the poor have spoken. They have new schools and hospitals to justify their votes. What do we have? A few megabillionaires who pay no taxes!

HURRAY FOR THE PEOPLE!!! HURRAY FOR CHAVEZ!!!

[mecherosegarden]

78. Are you sure that they have new hospitals and school...

If so, I have to inform my friends who haven't been able to get medical care for some time now. Also, talking about money. I wonder how small Chavez bank account is? I am pretty sure is not a small one.

[EFerrari]

90. No one has ever been able to find even a hint of corruption on this man.

You sure do post a lot of bs.

[shellgame26]

115. Here are a few links to some new schools and hospitals

You know all I had to do was google it. I suppose you could have done the same thing. Never found anything about his enormous bank account though, but I did see that he provided the poor in the US with cheap gas when the oil prices spiked.



http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/2670
http://socialismandliberation.org/mag/index.php?aid=825
http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/citgo_cheap_gas_us310805.htm

[Spazito]

61. Canada has no term limits

Should I now gasp and count myself in a dictatorship?

Many countries do not have term limits for their Presidents/Prime Ministers yet they remain democratic, go figure eh.

[Dave From Canada]

63. Yep, many countries do, but Venezuela isn't one of them. n/t

[Spazito]

70. Venezuela isn't one of what?

They just had a democratic vote to do away with term limits, we don't have term limits in Canada. They will still have elections, we will still have elections.

[EFerrari]

88. Venezuela's elections are cleaner than ours. n/t

[rabs]

66. Initial international reaction to the results

U.S.: State Department spokesman Tom Casey wishy-washy: "U.S. hopes the results will help to reach a peaceful, democratic and constitutional solution to the continuing political crisis in Venezuela." (It will be interesting to see if Obama congratulates Chavez, as Chavez did when Obama triumphed on Nov. 4.)

Uribe Colombia: (Most surprising.) Congratulated Venezuelans who "have given a beautiful lesson in democracy to the world. Congratulations Venezuela, congratulations President Chavez. Unity in Venezuela for a brilliant future."

Argentina: "Venezuela now embarks on a process that has been legalized and legitimized by the peoples' vote."

Uruguay: President Batlle praised the referendum and it, "manifested the opinion of the majority."

Brazil: President da Silva "The democratic process of Venezuela reinforces the democratic integration of South America."

Cuba: Fidel Castro was the first to send congratulations to Chavez.

El Salvador: The former FMLN leader Schafik Handal applauded the result. There was no word from the conservative government.

Spain: Two main leftist parties congratulated Chavez. No reaction from the rightist Popular Party (who had its observer kicked out of Venezuela.)

For readers of Spanish:

http://www.esmas.com/noticierostelevisa/internacionales/385082.html

[IndianaGreen]

76. Colombia's Uribe got rid of term limits, and he didn't quite follow the law like Chavez has

That's why he is congratulating Chavez, who followed the law unlike Uribe.

[rabs]

80. I don't think Uribe has abolished term limits

At least not yet if I recall correctly. In fact he has hinted that he will step down when his term ends next year. Too many scandals swirling around him.

------------------

BOGOTA, Dec 2 (Reuters) - Popular Colombian President Alvaro Uribe is losing the momentum he would need to run for a third term in 2010, hurt by a series of pyramid investment scams that collapsed in an already slowing economy last month.

Having shrugged off a slew of human rights scandals, one linking political allies to right-wing death squads, it is his response to the scams that is threatening what was once seen as an easy reelection bid for the combative conservative.

"It's ironic," said political analyst Mauricio Romero at Bogota's Javeriana University. "His prospects were never hurt by the scandals in which you really could have found fault with him, but he is paying a price now for his handling of the pyramids, which was awkward but essentially correct."

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N022668.htm

[davekriss]

74. Why did you put the word "wins" in quotes when...

...the aljazeera article you cite did not do so? Are you suggesting that Chavez in some way did not really win the referendum?

[EFerrari]

87. It did originally. n/t

[thingy]

79. We can only hope that the same thing could happen here.

High time the 22nd Amendment is repealed while we have a real President in the White House.

[L. Coyote]

96. HOORAY! Viva HUGO!!!! Celebrate by watching: THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

Viva Hugo, Viva Bolivar, Viva Tupac Amaru, Viva, Viva, Viva la Liberacion de America!!

[EFerrari]

99. I hope this gives Rumsfeld a seizure.

:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

106. That documentary will NEVER get old. Thanks for the link. n/t

[devilgrrl]

98. Oh no! It's the beginning of the end of the world! He satanic!

:sarcasm:

[Endangered Specie]

101. Will be interesting to see how this works out... but IMHO term limits

are a very good thing to have and should not be so easily scrapped.

[EFerrari]

103. 'Chavistas' take to the streets

'Chavistas' take to the streets
By Rob Winder in Caracas



Fireworks filled the skies over Caracas for a second time on Sunday as Venezuelans rushed onto the streets to celebrate the victory of Hugo Chavez, Venezuela's president, in his battle to run for the presidency again.

Thousands of people gathered outside the presidential palace in the centre of city to pay tribute to the Venezuelan leader, who won a referendum on term limits for elected officials by 54 per cent to 46.

And across the Venezuelan capital, open-topped trucks packed with Chavez supporters cruised the streets of the capital, horns blaring.

Dozens of "Chavistas" clad in red t-shirts also patrolled the city, revving their engines and saluting those on the streets.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2009/02/200921654552303736.html

[Judi Lynn]

104. Gorgeous photo! Time for the people to celebrate. Thanks for the view. n/t

[EFerrari]

108. Check this out, Judi Lynn: Victory in Venezuela?

"According to the UN’s Economic Council for Latin America and the Caribbean, poverty in Venezuela since 2003 has dropped from 51 per cent to 25 per cent, and extreme poverty has dropped from 25 per cent to 7 per cent."

Victory in Venezuela?
Vincent Bevins (The New Stateman)
Published 16 February 2009

A decade into the rule of Hugo Chávez, it seems a majority of Venezuelan voters still have an appetite for the Bolivarian revolution.

At least, they are very willing to let Chávez present his case for a third term when the South American nation goes to the polls once more in 2012.

On Sunday night the Venezuelan electoral council announced that a constitutional referendum removing term limits for the president, governors, mayors and legislators had passed by about 54.6 per cent to 45.4 per cent, with a sizable 70 per cent turnout.

Outside of the Miraflores presidential palace, the scene was much different to that in December 2007.

Then, his supporters waited hours to celebrate with him, only to find out later that voters had narrowly defeated a comprehensive and radical package of constitutional reforms which also included the provision allowing for unlimited consecutive re-election. Chávez never appeared that night, but rather gave a sober and humble speech to his supporters saying that the revolution had been held back, although temporarily.

http://www.newstatesman.com/south-america/2009/02/chavez-venezuela-referendum

[Judi Lynn]

110. Beautiful! I'd be doing cartwheels if I found it, myself.It's a carnival of great quotes!

First, from the article:

But Chávez himself remains a powerful and popular figure in Venezuelan politics. Analysts say part of the reason this referendum was so important for the opposition is the worry that they won’t be able to produce someone to compete with him in 2012.

While most supporters and Chávez himself do not deny the country’s problems, his popularity ratings fluctuate around 60 per cent, as they have for a while.

Loyal Chavistas, when given the chance, will provide a long list of reasons for their support, including a successful commitment to poverty reduction and widespread public health and educational missions.

According to the UN’s Economic Council for Latin America and the Caribbean, poverty in Venezuela since 2003 has dropped from 51 per cent to 25 per cent, and extreme poverty has dropped from 25 per cent to 7 per cent.

Then, one which should be used again and again:

Then, another:

During the 2007 referendum campaign the focus tended to be on the provision for Chávez’s continued re-election, while some journalists tried to point to scores of other very significant constitutional reforms in the package. But the hasty organisation of a February 2009 referendum on the one issue of re-election seemed an admission that keeping Chávez in power is the most important item on his movement’s agenda.

“A solid revolution shouldn’t depend exclusively on its leader, in this case, Chávez," said Carlos Santaniello, a 25-year old call-centre worker in Caracas who has been active in left-wing youth organisations.

“But right now,” he said “we don’t have necessary level of organisation, so, it’s necessary to keep holding confidence in Chávez and his government.”

One I hope many people will see:

Even Brazil’s Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, one of the region’s most moderate and diplomatic leaders, is full of praise for Chávez, especially in comparison to Venezuela’s often disappointing history of leadership.

“Chávez is without a doubt Venezuela’s best president in the last 100 years,” he told Germany’s Der Spiegel last year.

You hit the jackpot with this one, you know. I'm SO GLAD to see it. I grabbed it immediately for future use. You can be sure this one is going to have a lot of us leaping, bouncing off the walls, singing, throwing confetti invisibly. Wow!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

[Judi Lynn]

117. More images:

http://www.nation.co.ke.nyud.net:8090/image/view/-/530902/medRes/64948/-/maxw/600/-/tmadfs/-/CAR217_VENEZUELA-CHAVEZ-_02.jpg

Supporters of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez mob the gate of Miraflores Palace in
Caracas February 15, 2009.
Photo/REUTERS

Chavez wins re-election chance
Posted Monday, February 16 2009 at 11:50
http://www.nation.co.ke/News/world/-/1068/530888/-/sfpc26/-/index.html

http://media.thestar.topscms.com.nyud.net:8090/images/a1/49/dfd160d840d980059db43d33d9a1.jpeg

GREGORIO MARRERO/REUTERS

Voters in Caracas line up Feb. 15, 2009 to cast ballots on a
proposal that would allow President Hugo Chavez to stay in
power for as long as he keeps winning elections.

No limit to Chavez's reign in Venezuela
Reuters
Feb 16, 2009 04:30 AM
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/588196

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/media/images/45480000/jpg/_45480696_supporters_afp466b.jpg

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/media/images/45480000/jpg/_45480681_bolivar_afp466b.jpg

[Judi Lynn]

114. Found a couple of opposition reaction photos!

First a couple of photos of people supporting the reform:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/i/pix/2009/02/16/article-0-03884CCE000005DC-855_468x304.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/i/pix/2009/02/16/article-0-038871D2000005DC-881_224x360.jpg

The other guys:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/i/pix/2009/02/16/article-0-0388793D000005DC-736_468x311.jpg http://i.dailymail.co.uk.nyud.net:8090/i/pix/2009/02/16/article-0-03887096000005DC-512_224x360.jpg

Good scenery chewers when they know the camera's on them.

Chavez becomes 'President Unstoppable' after Venezuela votes to scrap term limits

By Mail Foreign Service
Last updated at 10:07 AM on 16th February 2009

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1146286/Chavez-President-Unstoppable-Venezuela-votes-scrap-term-limits.html?ITO=1490

[Eryemil]

118. Is it me or is there a clear ethnic breakdown? I wish there were more pictures

[Judi Lynn]

120. It's not you, by golly! Did you ever read anything written by the Guardian's Greg Palast?

A Tale of Two Coups: Venezuela and Argentina
by Greg Palast, New Internationalist Magazine
July 3rd, 2002


Caracas -- On May Day, starting out from the Hilton Hotel, 200,000 blondes marched East through Caracas' shopping corridor along Casanova Avenue. At the same time, half a million brunettes converged on them from the West. It would all seem like a comic shampoo commercial if 16 people hadn't been shot dead two weeks earlier when the two groups crossed paths.

The May Day brunettes support Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. They funneled down from the ranchos, the pustules of crude red-brick bungalows, stacked one on the other, that erupt on the steep, unstable hillsides surrounding this city of five million. The bricks in some ranchos are new, a recent improvement in these fetid, impromptu slums where many previously sheltered behind cardboard walls. 'Chavez gives them bricks and milk,' a local TV reporter told me, 'and so they vote for him.'

Chavez is dark and round as a cola nut. Like his followers, Chavez is an 'Indian.' But the blondes, the 'Spanish', are the owners of Venezuela. A group near me on the blonde march screamed 'Out! Out!' in English, demanding the removal of the President. One edible-oils executive, in high heels, designer glasses and push-up bra had turned out, she said: 'To fight for democracy.' She added: 'We'll try to do it institutionally,' a phrase that meant nothing to me until a banker in pale pink lipstick explained that to remove Chavez, 'we can't wait until the next election'.

More:
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=2908

Here's a photo taken of an opposition idiot years ago, during a time the opposition was taking heavy duty slingshots into the streets and shooting MARBLES at police, and pro-Chavez demonstrators. It was actually published in newspapers all over the place. One temporary troll here was damned proud of this female clown, boasting of what a looker she was. He felt it was a matter of enormous importance, something he needed to share with DU'ers.

The opposition rioters killed one helpless man when they shot a marble right into his head. Many DU'ers discussed it here when it was learned. Even had an x-ray, I believe, which was published. Damned sad. Filthy ####s.

http://www.alpha66.org.nyud.net:8090/espanol/images/Amazona_Venezolana..jpg

More:

ublished on Monday, August 16, 2004 by CommonDreams.org
Dick Cheney, Hugo Chavez and Bill Clinton's Band
Why Venezuela has Voted Again for Their 'Negro e Indio' President
by Greg Palast


There's so much BS and baloney thrown around about Venezuela that I may be violating some rule of US journalism by providing some facts. Let's begin with this: 77% of Venezuela's farmland is owned by 3% of the population, the 'hacendados.'

I met one of these farmlords in Caracas at an anti-Chavez protest march. Oddest demonstration I've ever seen: frosted blondes in high heels clutching designer bags, screeching, "Chavez - dic-ta-dor!" The plantation owner griped about the "socialismo" of Chavez, then jumped into his Jaguar convertible.

More:
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0816-03.htm

~~~~~~~~~~
A problem some people have mentioned in writing about Venezuelan media is that their privately owned tv stations portray Venezuela as a country where everyone is European descended, when the reality is that a majority of them are actually native Venezuelan, black, and mixed heritages.

People have noted it's actually wierd having the tv showing almost everyone extremely Caucasian in a non-caucasian country.

[ronnie624]

134. Palast sure knows how to paint an amusing and descriptive picture.

Chavez minister Miguel Bustamante-Madriz, who had escaped the coup, led 60,000 brunettes down from Barrio Petare to Miraflores. As thousands marched against the coup, Caracas television stations, owned by media barons who supported (and possibly planned the coup) played soap operas. The station owned hoped their lack of coverage would keep the Chavista crowd from swelling; but it doubled and doubled and doubled. On l3 April, they were ready to die for Chavez.

They did not have to. Carmona, fresh from his fantasy inaugural, received a call from the head of a pro-Chavez paratroop regiment stationed in Maracay, outside the capital. To avoid bloodshed, Chavez had agreed to his own 'arrest' and removal by the putschists, but did not mention to the plotters that several hundred loyal troops had entered secret corridors under the Palace. Carmona, surrounded, could choose his method of death: bullets from the inside, rockets from above, or dismemberment by the encircling 'bricks and milk' crowd. Carmona took off his costume ribbons and surrendered.

*****

I interviewed Carmona while I leaned out the fourth floor window of an apartment in La Alombra, a high-rise building complex. I spoke my pidgin Spanish across to his balcony on the building a few yards away. The one-time petrochemical mogul was under house arrest -- the lucky bastard. If he had attempted to overthrow the President of Kazakhstan (or for that matter, the President of the US), he would by now have a bullet in his skull. Chavez, in a gracious if strained nod to the ultimate authority of the privileged, simply confined Carmona to his expensive flat.

In response to my question about who gave him authority to name himself president, coup leader Carmona responded, 'Civil society'. To him this meant the bankers, the oil company chiefs and others who signed his proclamation.

[L. Coyote]

127. The slaves were NOT white!! "by virtue of our superiority of race" Pres. Taft.

1912 - U.S. marines invade Nicaragua, beginning
an occupation that was to last almost continuously until 1933.

President Taft declares: "The day is not far distant
when three Stars & Stripes at three equidistant points will mark
our territory: one at the North Pole, another at the Panama Canal and
the third at the South Pole. The whole hemisphere will be ours in fact
as, by virtue of our superiority of race, it already is ours morally."

Sound familiar?

I cannot count the times I heard white oligarchs in South America say something
like "our superiority of race" about their former slaves, the Native Americans.

The present has context, and in the Americas that context is conquest, genocide, slavery, rape, pillage, racism. ....
The United States is very different because of the extermination of the Natives, as British law did not allow enslaving them.
British law also did not allow invading Ohio, but we sure solved that problem!! And then the Century of Genocide began.

The context in Venezuela and South America is one of celebration of liberation from colonialism.
The United States remains to be liberated from its cultural past, one of genocide and racism.
That is why so many DU'ers come off as total freepers on this topic. Different historical contexts.

[EFerrari]

138. I just saw one of the Venezuelan oligarchs on that "Cooking in the Danger Zone"

program that's on Link. He said of Chavez, "he's ignorant" but what he meant was, that little indian came from nothing and he doesn't belong to my (ruling) class". Chavez is not "ignorant" but he doesn't speak like the Gucci patriots, that's for sure. :)

[EFerrari]

137. More. I want to see more!

lol

:hi:

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

116. Must-read on 2005 on Chavez from FAIR founder Jeff Cohen

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/06/07/con06292.html

[Judi Lynn]

119. Thanks! n/t

[ronnie624]

143. Thanks for posting.

The e-mail quotes he included, capture in essence, the 'thinking' of the reactionary political element within the United States. Sometimes I find it so sad that it can rarely be reached by solid, simple logic.

[Mika]

145. Jeff Cohen needs to go to Cuba for his next eye-opener.

It certainly opened mine. That's why I am an unapologetic supporter of the Cuban people's Revolution.

[JackRiddler]

122. The article does not put quotes around "win" -- you are editorializing.

[bemildred]

123. Sigh. Read post #38. nt

[EFerrari]

142. You've been very patient through the Headline Flap.

:)

[harun]

133. Viva Chavez!