Cuba Cutting Internet Access

[Zorro]

In a move seen as aimed at anti-government bloggers, Cuba is further limiting access to the World Wide Web

HAVANA - Cuba is further limiting access to the World Wide Web for its citizens, in what many believe is an effort to rein in a small but increasingly popular group of bloggers who are critical of the government.

Only government employees, academics and researchers are allowed their own Internet accounts, which are provided by the state, but only have limited access to sites outside the island. Ordinary Cubans may open e-mail accounts accessible at many post offices, but do not have access to the Web. Many got around the restrictions by using hotel Internet services.

But a new resolution barring ordinary Cubans from using hotel Internet services quietly went into place in recent weeks, according to an official with Cuba's telecom monopoly, hotel workers and bloggers.

There was no official announcement of the change. Cuba has the lowest rate of Internet access in Latin America...

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-cuba-internet-cutoff-050709,0,5740923.story

[Mika]

1. Now they have to pay for their own webservice..

.. instead of hijacking the hotel wireless and using it free.

They'll have to get their own accounts and pay for them now. Not to worry though, the US interests section will supply $$ to those without "family" in the US who can remit some bucks, or other foreign entities will supply resources for free.

Shame that the US sanctions have prevented more open & less expensive access to the internet for Cubans in Cuba. Because of the severely limited bandwidth Cuba has access to, internet accounts are very expensive.

Time to lift the embargo and let Cuba connect with the WWW.

[magbana]

2. Amen, Mika!! n/t

[flamingdem]

8. I think it is more complicated than that

There is no way that the Castro Bros like to give up control. I'm not anti-Cuba and I know that. They have their reasons but the Cuban people suffer too much from their inability to get with it.

Even those who support them will agree they are dinosaurs and it's time for new blood.

Keeping Cubans out of the hotels has always been a questionable practice at best. Justified to high heavens but very hurtful to any Cuban I know. This is more of the same crap. It's get in your place stuff and not just about bandwidth.

Many more Cubans have money now and they can go into hotels when their own black market internet breaks down. Or they could. This includes artists and others who are not in the correct revolutionary category.

Even if you are making hard currency for the government this will not grant you internet access at home. It is a total inconvenience to many who are struggling against the Castros hatred of those who would be entreprenurial.

They always have excuses but they aren't changing, they just are not really bending at and the people suffer their tight control.

Obama better sign that travel bill because there isn't much else for the Cubans to hope for other than a big oil discovery.

[Bacchus39]

3. amazing

"Internet use is only for foreigners for the time being," said a worker at the Hotel Nacional's business center. "According to a new order from ETECSA only foreigners can surf the web at hotels."

makes you wonder why the Cuban government has online propaganda sites doesn't it? (Prensa Latina, Granma) I mean if Cubans can't have the internet who is it intended for?

when is that cable from Caracas coming? sure is taking awhile. but I'm sure once that happens Cubans will have unfettered access to the net. wink wink.

[Billy Burnett]

4. Only the people who can afford it have internet in Cuba. Just like here.

Anyone can get an ETECSA account, provided that they can afford it (and you do complain that Cubans don't make much money, don't you).

We do know that Cuba doesn't have access to the Caribbean fiber optic internet trunk line because of the US extraterritorial sanctions on Cuba (maybe some other posters could put up some links affirming this, I'm not at my home PC w/my bookmarks right now). This lack of connection to high speed fiber optic internet means that Cuba has to rely on satellite and and phone modem internet connections that are very expensive, partially because both are very slow (low bandwidth) compared to hi speed cable and DSL hookups (it could take hours to download a simple Youtube video, for example).

THE #1 reason Cubans don't have fast and easy, relatively inexpensive internet is the US extraterritorial sanctions on Cuba!
The #2 reason is that most Cubans can't afford internet, and that situation would be vastly improved if Cuba wasn't subjected to the US extraterritorial sanctions and the US citizen travel ban.


On edit: Cubans do have access to free internet at the local library, kids going to school have access too and if they can afford it their parents have low speed internet at home (no high speed because of the aforementioned circumstances).

[Bacchus39]

5. ever hear of a library????

library access in the US is free.

the number 1 reason Cuba doesn't have internet is the government doesn't want them to.

Cuba would still limit Cubans' salaries regardless of the US embargo. what are they are going to trade? how are they going to pay for goods?

foreign companies are free to trade with Cuba. not all businesses in the world have US subsidiaries and could trade with Cuba without any repercussions.

[Mika]

6. Damn, you are clueless about Cuba.

I don't think you really read Billy's post. Too quick with the knee jerk talking point response without thinking.

-

Castro forces health care and education on all of those poor Cubans, at least he can't force high speed low cost internet on them, for now. :sarcasm:

[Bacchus39]

14. you mean before or after the edit???

and we know that Cuba is the only country in the world with free health care and education. obviously you can't have free health care and education, and unrestricted access to the internet and an independent press and private business all at the same time. everyone knows that.

[Mika]

15. Billy's edit was 8:52pm Your post was at 9:10pm.

Surely it didn't take you almost 20 minutes to compose your knee jerk post. :shrug:

How many of these other countries, that you're comparing to Cuba, are facing extra territorial sanctions - including prevented from connecting to the high speed WWW?

Zero. Only Cuba faces such draconian policies.

[Bacchus39]

16. Cuba won't allow its citizens to have unrestricted access to the net

and you know it. embargo or not. we can't have the citizenry obtaining counter revolutionary propaganda now can we?

when is that cable line coming from Venezuela? I am sure all the rest of latin america can provide for Cuba's needs.

[flamingdem]

7. Cubans are NOT allowed to get ETECSA internet accounts for home use

Can you cite some proof that anyone can get an ETECSA account?

The only ones allowed are certain government and medical employees, foreigners with businesses or some Cubans who work for foreign companies.

It's not available otherwise even if you can afford it.

[EFerrari]

9. That's not what Reese Erlich says in this BookTv segment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x15007

[flamingdem]

10. He is probably misinformed

I will listen to the talk but he is incorrect if he says Cubans can purchase internet access for their homes.

See this article by a pro-Cuba journalist:

http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/internet-access-in-cuba-maybe-in-2010/

Last week, the Cuban government announced that ordinary Cubans will not be allowed to have Internet access in the short term, even though the government authorised ordinary citizens to buy computers and own mobile phones on 1 April 2008.

After last month’s announcement, we were hopeful that Fidel Castro’s brother, Raul Castro, would be keen to break the communications and digital divide in Cuba. Currently, Cuba has an estimated fixed line penetration of 10% and some 200,000 computers connected to the Internet for a population of almost 11.5 million inhabitants.

[EFerrari]

11. No. He's not misinformed. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

12. The man who runs Havana Journal, pro-Cuba? Really?

Here's a glowing view of Rob Sequin from another Cuba journal writer:

“Cuba Expert” Slurs Havana Times
December 17, 2008 |
By Circles Robinson


HAVANA, Dec. 17.- Somehow our two-month-old Havana Times website from and about Cuba is causing lost sleep for a Massachusetts businessman who claims to be the world’s leading expert on Cuba.

Marketeer Rob Sequin wrote, “When the 100% Communist Cuban propaganda rag Granma endorses a new Cuban news and information website with a title like ‘New website in English presents reality of Cuba,’ I find it offensive. This is not the first time I have been offended by the new Havana Times website, which I am here today to expose as a pure propaganda tool of the Cuban government.”

Sequin appears fixated on convincing the world that HT is unworthy of reading, unlike his many business websites like Havana.biz, which bills itself as “Preparing for opportunities in a post-Castro, post-Embargo Cuba.”

He’s not alone; there are several other US “entrepreneurs” who have been selling futures on bits and pieces of the island.

Guys like Sequin have a win-win situation. Their attacks on the Cuban government often allow them to tap into US congressional funds allocated to try and bring it down. This has been going on for decades and is part of the Congressional Record.

One of Mr. Sequin’s many scams is to purchase every Internet domain he can think of and to try and turn a big profit if the Revolution cries uncle, enabling guys like him to move in for the kill.

“We own over 2,400 Cuba related domains that complement our network and are scheduled for development, used for marketing purposes or are for sale or lease,” says Sequin. He goes on to claim to “own the biggest private Cuba-related website in the world.”

With that information, you’d think Seguin would have plenty to do managing all of his many businesses. Nonetheless, he still finds time to slander HT as well. He tries to do the site harm, but I’d like to thank him for getting us new readers. We have received numerous referrals from his ranting, as people with that good old curiosity try to find out if we could be as bad as Rob says.

Sequin says he lives in Cape Cod and “is not Hispanic and has no family ties to Cuba,” as if that were either is something bad or discredits ones’ opinions about issues related to the island.

I have lived in Havana for the last seven years, have a normal translating job, and edit and write for HT in my free time. Maybe I’m a little naïve, but since I haven’t asked anybody else for permission to run the site, I don’t think I need Rob’s approval either?

Lastly, Sequin (who also administers www.havanajournal.com) uses as burning proof of my being “a senior Cuban government agent” the fact that several of my commentaries on Cuba and US-Cuba relations have been published in the Cuban online media, and that Havana Times was able to present itself in Cuba-where it is happy to be based. I hope to give him more hard evidence in the future as I try to get published locally as well as write for a foreign audience.

I feel honored that Sequin says he’s “offended” by the existence of Havana Times. I guess the monopoly he pretends to corner on Cuba has no room for little non-profit upstarts like us!

http://www.havanatimes.org/?p=3093

[flamingdem]

18. He doesn't say that internet is allowed from home

The point of this being that if now Cubans cannot use the hotels for internet they are very reduced in terms of being able to use the internet. This especially impacts anyone who is an entrepreneur and anyone who wants information about the world. There option is to spend money at a super slow internet cafe. There are few of them and long waits. Forget it if you're not in a city.

I think it's sad. It's not something to justify to support Cuba. Just like their crappy press, he agrees with that, this is hobbling the people and not empowering them.

The cost is prohibitive enough. The hotel internet service is not bogged down with Cubans. Bandwidth is not an excuse in this case.

By the way this journalist is not very detail oriented. For example the Casa Particular small hotel taxes which he dismisses -- those capitalists are complaining about taxes? And he compares what the Casa (small hotel entrepreneur) in Cuba has to deal with to a boutique hotel in the USA.

He missed the main point which is the Casa owner must pay taxes every month regardless of whether they have clients. This is a huge burden since the Casa operators cannot openly advertise and of course now have even less internet access to deal with clients or promotion on the web.

The system does not empower the people to grow a business and Cuba wastes it's own talents with the emphasis on control.

[EFerrari]

19. Actually, he does say that. And please go look at his resume

before you denigrate his work.

I wholly agree with him that the US blockade is used in part to create opportunities to criticize Cuba, btw.

[flamingdem]

20. I'm not denigrating his work

I'm pointing out that his work includes errors. Also he talks about Cuban artists not being allowed into the USA since 1999. That is also incorrect it was 2004. So if he gets facts like that wrong then one has to check his other information. Also the mention of Chucho Valdes, he used him as an example of Cubans not being allowed in after 1999. Chucho was one of the few allowed in after 2004 but he was involved with a legal issue about a marriage to a US citizen that led to him not being allowed to enter at all.. a very different case from other musicians. So if he interviewed him and got all of that wrong he is not careful in his reporting.

All of that information is available on the internet via google by the way.

Where does he say that Cubans can have internet access in their homes? As other articles state Cubans can be eligible usually for email only if they work for certain ministries or for foreign companies. The populace is not allowed to have internet access at home and for that reason there is -- or was a big black market for internet connections. And a need to use the hotel connection for a reasonably fast connection, even that is slow.

The point is the Castro brothers stick to the impossible dream of an equal society. Since that is impossible they resort to making sure that no one gets ahead. The only way to get ahead is to leave the island or have access to the outside unless you benefit from corruption on the inside. Get ahead by the way is not a crime since that includes having enough protein and quality medicine and maybe be able to afford a taxi, only the priviledged can buy cars by the way.

I don't disagree that the blockade is used to criticize Cuba, what I see however is that a lot of people don't appreciate the impact on ordinary Cubans on the island of that system of political control. The left would be more convincing if they could put themselves in the shoes of average Cubans and drop the rhetoric.

Even they know they do it... but don't seem to risk real changes. If you don't think the Cubans feel that control and repression and are offended by it .. you have not spoken to anyone on the island and this journalist admits his slant.

[EFerrari]

21. "Chucho was one of the few allowed in after 2004". Thank you.

You can continue to blame the Castros for the lack of net access all you want. But, they didn't cut the cable.

And Reese's "slant" seems very reasonable to me, thanks.

[Mika]

13. Yes they can.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/tech/main592416.shtml

E-net is the largest of a handful of Internet providers in Cuba ..
-
E-net customers who do not have the dollar phone service can keep accessing the Internet with the ordinary phone service with special cards sold at Etecsa offices, the letter says.

More than one internet provider (there are a handful) in Cuba. Cubans can purchase internet service for home use, or get free internet access at all local libraries, just like the USA.

Problem is, now that unlimited remittances are allowed more Cubans are buying computers and getting internet accounts - clogging up the limited bandwidth Cuba has access to (limited by the US's sanctions).

This bandwidth limitation was a predictable result of Obama's latest "easing" of restrictions, and now can be spun into anti Castro propaganda.

[flamingdem]

17. It is not clear in that article that ordinary Cubans can surf from home

The same article says that the dollar service is prohibited to most Cubans and is typically used by foreign firms and individuals.

For that reason the hotel access is important to Cubans who do not fit into that category. I know Cubans who rely on the hotel
internet for communication and if they had the opportunity or permission they would connect at home. That is not being given
to ordinary Cubans. Apparently this is why Yoani Sanchez has to use the hotels as well. She can afford to pay in dollars but
she is not given permission to connect from home is what it looks like.

Add the new restrictions at some hotels to the crackdown on illegal internet and you get some major choking of communication for
the Cuban people.

---- snip

The decree passed late last year states that Internet service, already heavily controlled by the communist government, can be used only with a more expensive telephone service charged in U.S. dollars. The dollar service is prohibited to most Cubans and is typically used by foreign firms and individuals.

[Mika]

23. Yoani Sanchez doesn't maintain her website from her (her mother's) home account..

.. because she would be acting as an unregistered foreign agent for a declared enemy of Cuba.

Magbana's recent threads reveal just that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x14941
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=405x15019


While people might want to bicker back and forth over how Cubans can bypass the necessary rationing of the limited bandwidth Cuba has access to (rationing in order to prioritize the needs of their health care, education and government systems), this simple fact remains ... the #1 reason Cubans have limited access to high speed internet is the USA's embargo/sanctions on Cuba, preventing Cuba from connecting to the high speed Caribbean fiber-optic trunk line.

The tit for tat over who has access is just chaff intended to distract from that main issue.

[flamingdem]

24. This article says they will retain the current policies on access

* Control is the issue, and the government has not incentive to give that up anytime soon.

AFP

Cuba will continue to limit Internet access even after a fiber optic cable linking the island with Venezuela comes online in 2010, a top official said.

The new cable is 1,550 kilometers (960 miles) long and will dramatically increase the island’s level of connectivity, according to officials.

“We believe that the most responsible policy is to privilege collective access” to the Internet, said Boris Moreno, deputy minister of computer science and communication.

Nevertheless, there is a desire for “larger number of citizens to have Internet access,” technical and economic conditions allowing, Moreno told the daily Juventud Rebelde.

But he warned that the new fiber optic cable “will not necessarily decrease the price the country pays for connection to international networks.”

Because of the US trade embargo, Cuba connects to the Internet via satellite. The government says the limited bandwidth forces them to “prioritize” Internet access for “social use” purposes, with universities, companies and research centers prioritized.

The US embargo bans Cuban access to underwater Internet cables, the closest of which runs from Miami to Cancun, Mexico, a mere 32 kilometers (20 miles) from Havana.

Dissidents say the government’s true goal is to control access to information.

Moreno said Cuba, with a population of around 11.4 million, has 1.4 million Internet users, and that by the end of 2008 there were 630,000 computers, a 23 percent increase over 2007.

In July, the head of the US interest section in Havana, Michael Parmly, said that Washington would allow US companies to connect Cuba to their underwater cables.

“The only thing that is missing is for the Cuban government to lift its restrictions, loose its fear and begin to trust its own people,” he said.

[Bacchus39]

28. ooops!! it looks like I jumped the gun again Mika. Flamingdem reports

that Cuba will restrict access even though they are going to get high speed access by 2010. looks like you are completely wrong again but I am sure the tourists will be appreciative.

[Mika]

37. Which government is restricting access?

Your article points out US government policies...

The US embargo bans Cuban access to underwater Internet cables, the closest of which runs from Miami to Cancun, Mexico, a mere 32 kilometers (20 miles) from Havana.

Then, which government are these "dissidents" complaining about?

Dissidents say the government's true goal is to control access to information.

Seems as though it is the US government's goal to control Cuban's access to information. That is THE reason that US policy prevents Cuba's connection to the Cisco fiber optic Caribbean trunk.

Typical RW spin. Wreak havoc, then blame someone else (on the left).

[flamingdem]

39. Cubans do restrict access to some web sites

In Cuba you cannot access Yoani Sanchez' site or the Miami Herald and many others deemed anti-Cuban.

Of course the US is at fault for impeding the cable that would have allowed faster access for the internet in Cuba.

What is NOT clear is whether that would have made access more liberal to the Cuban people and what is NOT clear is
what they will do when they get the cable connection from Venezuela.

Sadly the Cuban government does not follow our thinking -- they do not give people access to information, they do
not have a free press and their their restrictions seem to be following the Chinese model.

All bad news for the Cubans.

There is no reason to justify it and it needs to be criticized as foundational if you yourself believe in democracy
and free expression.

There is no reason to restrict satellite television. This is done because the government doesn't like the Miami TV
shows being seen in Cuba.

They COULD allow Cubans to decide for themselves but so far they do not dare risk this.

Please consider how you feel about the authoritarian regime in Cuba. Is it really in line with your ideals? In
supporting Cuba we can separate what they have done well, like education, from their civil rights problems that
most academics, even very liberal academics, criticize.

You don't have to be right wing to see this is the case and that transparency is needed for that society to become
less dysfunctional.

[Mika]

41. Not true. My friends in Cuba read Generación Y regularly.

Although it take several minutes to download via phone modem (thanks to the US sanctions).

flamingdem, I have lived in Cuba. I have family and many friends in Cuba. I've visited many times also for professional (surgical seminars & ed exchange) and personal visits.

Cubans in north Cuba do tune in to Miami TV (as well as TV stations from all over the Caribbean and central America). Same goes for radio stations.

You seem to be basing your ideas of Cuba on dis/misinformation about the place. If Americans weren't travel banned by the dictate of their own government then this type of disinfo would be easily debunked and more difficult to pass-off as truth.

Having been there many times for long and shorter durations I can assuredly tell you that Cuba is nothing like the dark and dreary place the RW and anti Cuba "exiles" depict it as being.

The main obstacles to Cuban's connection are the fiber optic Caribbean trunk connection issue (caused by the US sanctions on Cuba) and the economic issues (primarily caused by the economic embargo of Cuba, and the US's travel ban on American's travel to Cuba - US tourism dollars are the foundation of all Caribbean economies).

[flamingdem]

44. Nope.

I know from first hand experience. Try accessing the Miami Herald the next time you are there. I repeat the question why do the go after those with illegal satellite TV? They don't want them watching shows from Miami. Those people have the money to pay for a hookup since they have to pay plenty for illegal TV.

- They don't want people to have priviledge - at least as they describe it
- They don't want people watching anti-Cuba TV out of Miami

The noise filled occaisional channel with soap operas do not count. It's the satellite cable shows like MegaTV and Americateve they don't want. Or CNN for that matter.

[EFerrari]

22. Obama has about two years to fix that before Chavez becomes a hero.

Let's see what happens. lol :)

[Bacchus39]

26. Chavez who is the least admired president of latin america is going to replace Obama?

well, we see where your loyalties lay.

[Bacchus39]

25. the cable from Ven will be installed by 2010. problem resolved

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-9994491-94.html

soon Mika will be joined by a multitude of Cubans joining in singing the praises of the Castro boys freely on the net.

and of course there will be a good number who aren't so fond. it should provide for interesting discussion. Looking forward to Cubans' unfettered participation and access to the net next year.

[flamingdem]

27. maybe not!

* Cuban people, (not militants), just love those Venezuelans.. Truth be told they would prefer yankees. They are practical and like many aspects of our culture especially music and baseball. But too bad they'll have to stick to what they can learn from Telesur!

Here is a question. Why is satellite TV illegal? There is no bandwidth problem there as seen by the many illegal hookups


AFP

Cuba will continue to limit Internet access even after a fiber optic cable linking the island with Venezuela comes online in 2010, a top official said.

The new cable is 1,550 kilometers (960 miles) long and will dramatically increase the island’s level of connectivity, according to officials.

“We believe that the most responsible policy is to privilege collective access” to the Internet, said Boris Moreno, deputy minister of computer science and communication.

Nevertheless, there is a desire for “larger number of citizens to have Internet access,” technical and economic conditions allowing, Moreno told the daily Juventud Rebelde.

But he warned that the new fiber optic cable “will not necessarily decrease the price the country pays for connection to international networks.”

Because of the US trade embargo, Cuba connects to the Internet via satellite. The government says the limited bandwidth forces them to “prioritize” Internet access for “social use” purposes, with universities, companies and research centers prioritized.

The US embargo bans Cuban access to underwater Internet cables, the closest of which runs from Miami to Cancun, Mexico, a mere 32 kilometers (20 miles) from Havana.

Dissidents say the government’s true goal is to control access to information.

Moreno said Cuba, with a population of around 11.4 million, has 1.4 million Internet users, and that by the end of 2008 there were 630,000 computers, a 23 percent increase over 2007.

In July, the head of the US interest section in Havana, Michael Parmly, said that Washington would allow US companies to connect Cuba to their underwater cables.

“The only thing that is missing is for the Cuban government to lift its restrictions, loose its fear and begin to trust its own people,” he said.

[Bacchus39]

29. Flamingdem. who would have ever thought that Cuba would continue to restrict

access even with high speed connection capabilities??? goodness, certainly not here on the latin american forum of DU.

we now have a new #1 reason why Cubans can't access the internet: the Cuban government.

[Bacchus39]

30. flamingdem. do you have that link? I want to attack the source n/t

s

[flamingdem]

31. Here is the link via Google from AFP

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i4Im-pal7SwXM14VPiwpDLTMbvxw

* I don't know much about AFP

The service, called the AFP World Academic Archive (AFP-WAA), includes AFP's news wires in English, French, Spanish and German

[Bacchus39]

32. if you don't post this as a separate thread, I may just have to n/t

s

[flamingdem]

33. No problemo

but I'm not sure that it's controversial because it's about the future... as in nobody really knows what might happen.

I think Fidel is having a crotchety attack about Obama. He had one a bit ago and zapped his foreign minister Felipe
Perez Roque and Carlos Lage who was considered fairly moderate.

I should say Raul - I think they are one and the same for the most part.

Raul has more of his military buddies in place now.

It doesn't bode well for the Cuban people. I am not anti-Cuban. I think there is some room to push but it's very,
very tough. They cannot feel too criticized or they freeze things up and why not they can play to Latin America
and even the extreme left in the US and Europe.

But it's a dying regime. The people are utterly frustrated and it's socioismo no socialismo. Socio meaning friend
or business contact .. without which you will basically be in bad shape in Cuba.

The issue of access to the internet sticks in my craw because I know artists and musicians who live there who cannot
get connections and need them to do business. They don't count enough. So many people get out of touch because of
the difficulty getting onto the internet. It doesn't need to be that way.

And sites are blocked like the Miami Herald. Too much like China. It is SAD.

[Bacchus39]

34. I just hope you continue posting here

all of the benefits of Cuban society, health care, education, can be achieved without government repression.

[flamingdem]

35. I can see being paranoid of Bush invading

and any other number of evils for Cuba's security... but they know Obama isn't going to... yet the screws are tightening?

[Mika]

38. I haven't seen Obama's crackdown on Miamicubano terror foundations yet.

Alpha 66, Commandos F-4, Brigade 2506, etc, etc, are all still conducting ops in and against Cuba, in clear violation of the US's Neutrality Act.

When Obama's admin starts cracking down on the Miami based anti Cuba terrorist organizations I would consider your position on this matter, but as of now the ops continue (they are boasted about regularly on Miami's exile radio stations), and the US taxpayer funding streams to various anti Cuban government "dissident" groups in Miami and Cuba continue.

Obama's admin has to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Until then, Cuba has to remain vigilant against the murderous conspirators and actors of terrorism who go unfettered in the US.

[flamingdem]

40. I agree he is moving slowly

and he seems less than fully informed about Cuba. Obama has to show respect and own the screw up of US policy.

Still I found myself agreeing somewhat that a carrot and stick approach might help to push for more civil rights in Cuba.

Not that the US has the right to impose, but it has things Cuba wants.. and the power elite in Cuba is extremely entrenched.

Cubans will tell you that they dislike the repression but they dislike the Miami mafia even more. In that small space the Castros need to build a functional consensus and empower their people ahead of an opening.

Instead the signs are that the military mentality is getting stronger and the hardliners are pushing in their way.

The groups in Miami are a joke at this point. Obama will deal with that in time. The democrats want to get rid of that power base.
It's just not something done overnight. But I agree he better walk the walk soon.

I think Obama wants congress to push and then he'll sign. Less problems with the mafia that way.

[Mika]

42. "The groups in Miami are a joke" Huh?

I really don't consider bombing ops, murder ops, assassination ops, sabotage ops, etc, undertaken by these groups are a joke.

If you lived in Miami you could hear the leadership of these various groups boasting about these ops ("freedom fighting") on Ninoska Perez' radio show regularly.

You're right about this - Cubans will tell you that they dislike the repression. That is just why they kicked the US backed blood soaked Batista dictatorship out. Now they have sovereignty, equality, health care and education for their family and kids. (And, hopefully, high speed internet, soon.)

[flamingdem]

43. Your time range is very long term

Of course those groups did all of that but now they are toothless for the most part and just collect their paychecks from the US taxpayer.

Same with Batista, no need to convince most people about why the revolution happened.

The point is that the leadership is ancient and interested in their legacy more than the conditions and civil rights of their people. They repressed many attempts at small business and don't like it when anyone gets ahead. It's untenable. You cannot stifle human creativity in business or in the arts. And while they support the arts if you don't tow a certain amount of the line you will not get venues for your work.

Too small a number of people there - try the top two jefes and the six under them - have 90% of the power there.

[magbana]

45. Old Miami Terrorists May Not Be As Toothless as You Think

The anti-Cuban terrorist groups might seem toothless, but there is a molar there or two with long memories of dirty deeds that they did for the US, from Bay of Pigs to the Congo and beyond. Don't think they don't use their "memories" to frustrate normalization attempts. Yes, they are still getting a paycheck -- hush money.

[flamingdem]

46. Cubans won't allow the MM to reinsert itself

The mafia's days are numbered though it might take longer since
they'll have to pry their jaws open to make them drop their bounty.

Cubans on the island hate the Miami mafia crowd much much more than Fidel.
I agree with estimates that about 40% support Fidel-Raul but then again
there isn't much of an alternative.

[magbana]

47. This is not a matter of whether the terrorist will re-insert

themselves. All I'm saying is that this dance the US is trying to dabble in with Cuba is, and has always been, dependent on how much the anti-Cuban terrorists in Miami know and how fearful the US gov't. was/is if they started talking. For over 50 years, US clandestine operations have involved anti-Cuban terrorists to do the dirty work. These guys knew from jump street that their silence was valuable. Now, if I was a veteran of Brigade 2506, I might be looking for a little change here or there from uncle sam. But, what I really would want is for the US to punish the living hell out of Cuba for all eternity. The blockade has done just that. Quid pro quo.

[roody]

36. Let's check it out! DU meetup in Cuba---How about after July 2?

Or Thanksgiving week?