Venezuela murder-rate quadrupled under Chavez -NGO

[naaman fletcher]

CARACAS, March 11 (Reuters) - Homicides in Venezuela have quadrupled during President Hugo Chavez's 11 years in power, with two people murdered every hour, according to new figures from a non-governmental organization.

With a murder rate of 140 per 100,000 citizens, Venezuela's capital Caracas has the highest murder rate in South America, only exceeded in the hemisphere by Mexico's Ciudad Juarez.
Most of the deaths occur in crowded slums

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http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N11226112.htm

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Chavez, a man of the people!

[protocol rv]

1. I guess they'll say you're a corpofascist

They don't understand the truth, how bad the crime is. I'm sure our gringo friends will say Los Angeles is worse. But the statistics don't say so.

[Wilms]

8. Reuters understands the truth. And they ditch it.

Out of curiosity, checked the Reuters version in Spanish
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4303349&mesg_id=4303501

[EFerrari]

12. It's well known that violent crme in Venezuela is a problem

but these out of context, sensational stories based on one study that hasn't been replicated, lol, don't add anything to that knowledge. It just makes Reuters look stupid.

The government's most recent measure that I know of focuses on corruption in the police department. I haven't heard any update on that and if there is any progress, I probably won't unless I go looking for it.

[bemildred]

2. Crime Statistics > Murders (per capita) (most recent) by country

# 1 Colombia: 0.617847 per 1,000 people
# 2 South Africa: 0.496008 per 1,000 people
# 3 Jamaica: 0.324196 per 1,000 people
# 4 Venezuela: 0.316138 per 1,000 people
# 5 Russia: 0.201534 per 1,000 people
# 6 Mexico: 0.130213 per 1,000 people
# 7 Estonia: 0.107277 per 1,000 people
# 8 Latvia: 0.10393 per 1,000 people
# 9 Lithuania: 0.102863 per 1,000 people
# 10 Belarus: 0.0983495 per 1,000 people
# 11 Ukraine: 0.094006 per 1,000 people
# 12 Papua New Guinea: 0.0838593 per 1,000 people
# 13 Kyrgyzstan: 0.0802565 per 1,000 people
# 14 Thailand: 0.0800798 per 1,000 people
# 15 Moldova: 0.0781145 per 1,000 people
# 16 Zimbabwe: 0.0749938 per 1,000 people
# 17 Seychelles: 0.0739025 per 1,000 people
# 18 Zambia: 0.070769 per 1,000 people
# 19 Costa Rica: 0.061006 per 1,000 people
# 20 Poland: 0.0562789 per 1,000 people
# 21 Georgia: 0.0511011 per 1,000 people
# 22 Uruguay: 0.045082 per 1,000 people
# 23 Bulgaria: 0.0445638 per 1,000 people
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
...

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

[Bacchus39]

3. those are from the time period of 1998-2000

here are some more recent statistics. Honduras under the Great Z came out on top

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

[bemildred]

6. Let's all move to Yemen. nt

[Bacchus39]

7. no thanks I'm OK here in the States n/t

s

[bemildred]

9. Well, they have a better murder rate than the USA.

I guess they must have a heck of a government.

[Bacchus39]

10. you are free to go there and find out n/t

s

[bemildred]

11. I'm not claiming the murder rate is the criteria. The OP is.

I'm just saying that if the murder rate is the criteria, there are a lot of other places to consider besides Venezuela, and Yemen must be a heck of a lot better than the USA.

[Bacchus39]

13. well, go check it out. has the murder rate quadrupled in the US

over the same time period. the article says that crime is the most pressing issue in Venezuela. and it appears that the government hasn't done so much doesn't it??

they have a national police force don't they? the US doesn't have a national police force responsible for investigating local crimes and policing cities not that there aren't crime ridden areas in the US

[Wilms]

14. Speaking of checking things out...

Have you been to the Venezuelan Observatory of Violence website to see how they got the numbers "reported" in the story.

If you do, let us know. Nobody I know can find the website of this organization "whose data is widely followed in the absence of official statistics" according to the OP link.

[bemildred]

15. Blah blah blah.

I already checked it out, and I posted a link for comparative murder statistics too. When do I get some credit?

[PufPuf23]

4. Colombia has 2X the murder rate of adjacent Venezuela

Colombia has received over $6 billion in military assistance under Plan Columbia and there are plans for 7 new US bases.

The USA was complicit of a failed coup of Chavez in 2002 and supported recall elections and a national oil strike.

The USA harbors a terrorist convicted of blowing up a Venezuelan airliner.

The USA provides $ and propaganda support to NGOs and media to undermine the current social order in Venezuela.

This is not a stable region of the globe and USA policies are contributing to the violence as violence from lombia spills into Venezuela not vice versa.

The USA was complicit in the recent violent coup in Honduras and also maintains military bases in El Salvador and on Curacoa and Aruba under Plan Colombia. The 4th Fleet has been activated for the first time in over 50 years in the Carribean. We have violated Venezuelean sovereign air space.

Latin America is America's "quiet" third front of aggressive war for resources and political power.

The murders in Venezuela are not occuring in a vaccum.

My druthers would be de-militarying the region and work on economic and cultural partnership under fair (as opposed to free) trade agreements.

[Bacchus39]

5. you mean Colombia did 10 years ago n/t

s

[naaman fletcher]

16. What does that have to do with venezuela? nt

[Judi Lynn]

17. Great post. Remember an enormous number of displaced people from Colombia, driven off their property

by death squads have fled to Venezuela and it continues in a heavy stream, as always. Venezuela has to accomodate them, as they literally have nowhere to go.

The stolen land is sold to various mutinational corporations for various reasons from grand scale biofuel production, palm oil plantations, mines, etc. The former owners receive NOTHING for their land, and are lucky to escape across the border with their lives to live without prospects.

Damned filthy, sadistic, evil, and pathetic but real good 'bidness' for Colombian money interests.

You will find all kinds of references concerning displacement, and the burden thrust upon Venezuela and Ecuador with these growing homeless populations. Hideous.

[naaman fletcher]

18. What does that have to do with the murder rate in venezuela? nt

[protocol rv]

20. Talking about driving people off their property

Is an interesting subject, I've always been concerned about it since I found out about the plight of the Palestinian people (sorry, but I had to put that plug in), and I know it is true, in Colombia there are many displaced people, many of them come to Venezuela), but we were discussing the crime rate.

It's hard to tell what it really is, but we know it's very high. I'll tell you a simple fact, nobody in their right mind thinks the crime rate is dropping in Venezuela - it has been getting worse. And as the economy drops (and despite Patriot's statistics, it is getting worse), I suspect crime will get a lot worse.

My advice to the government? Put money into improving the jails, which are truly dantesque, beef up the police and courts, make sure people receive a speedy trial, have access to a defense lawyer (we need to have people understand justice is fair), and put in programs to get young men off the street when they commit small infractions, before they go on to be hard criminals - this means putting them in some sort of work camp if necessary, where they can earn a living, have a place to sleep, and get some discipline.

Long term (something to be done over a 10-20 year period), we need for the government to be pro-active about women's education and job prospects, birth control, including government financed abortion services, providing contraceptives, and the pill. In other countries, it was shown this reduced crime, because as women become educated, they have less children, as birth control is available, the also have less children, and this is a key to having the ability to raise a family properly, having two-three children who are well fed and taken care of, and not five or six you can't feed properly. Plus it helps control population growth, which in the long term we know isn't sustainable.

[ChangoLoa]

19. 2008 data, top five. Your data is from 2001 (Venezuela)

Nationmaster is using the last available data from the govt. They stopped providing it in 2001.

1. Honduras: 58
2. Venezuela: 52
3. Sierra Leone: 50
4. El Salvador: 49
5. Jamaica: 49

[protocol rv]

21. Honduras has to be a really tough place to live

It has to be incredibly bad there. I believe this crime they have is in part caused by the drug flow from Colombia to the USA, which leads to the surge in crime as people try to get involved. Growing bananas just isn't as profitable.

[EFerrari]

22. I know that Venezuela has tried several strategies without much success

trying to reduce the murder rate.

We had the same problem in San Francisco and our last police chief finally found something that did work. He changed the way a murder is responded to and investigated by the homicide detectives. I don't remember all the details now but it had something to do with a faster response and how the teams of detectives were deployed together. So after years and a lot of frustration (and deaths) the homicide rate is finally going down.

[Bacchus39]

23. the Ven government strategy seems to be to no longer report on violent crime

if the government doesn't say it, then it never happened. damn NGOs keep ruining the strategy

[protocol rv]

24. I don't see much of an emphasis on crime prevention

All you have to do is talk to a local cop and you'll understand, they're very untrained, underpaid, and poorly equipped. And I won't even bring up the potential that many of them are engaged in criminal activities. Imagine what could be done with the money spent buying the refinery in Brazil. Reducing crime would be a much better investment, because there's more than just murders or the wounded, the economy suffers when people have to lock themselves in when it gets dark.

[EFerrari]

25. In fact, the last report I read (which was some time ago) said the police

were part of the problem, not the solution.

Here's on article on the proposed reforms. It came out in December. There are others on the net:

Venezuela Launches New National Police Force to Transform Policing Model

Published on December 21st 2009, by Kiraz Janicke - Venezuelanalysis.com

Caracas, December 21st 2009 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez launched the first unit of the new Bolivarian National Police (PNB) in Sucre parish, Libertador municipality, western Caracas, on Sunday as part of an ongoing process of police reform.

The aim is to transform the policing model in order to deal with one of Venezuela’s most pressing issues: crime.

Last month Chavez warned that the problem of crime is becoming a “counter-revolutionary fifth column,” that threatens the Bolivarian revolution, as the process of progressive change underway in Venezuela is known. A new policing model that is respected and run by the people is necessary, the head of state argued.

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/5021

[protocol rv]

26. OK, so we agree, crime is bad

So, it seems we agree, my dear friend E.

But ask yourself, why wait until December, when things have been so bad and the government has been in control for 10 years? Don't you see what this says? Why does a government with a popular base allow crime to be so bad when it impacts more the people in the barrios? You know what i think?

They just happen to be missing a few wires in their heads. Anybody with common sense would have beefed up the police a long time ago. They should have put a police station next to the Barrio Adentro Modules - it would help protect the medical personnel, and it would bring crime down. Jesus! (I'm not Christian but it's such a good expletive), I can come up with idea after idea to improve things for the poor, and I don't have to go to Cuba to see how they do it. But I bet crime in Cuba is nowhere what it is here. What's wrong with these guys?

[EFerrari]

27. There was an effort to "beef up the police" a few years ago.

There was a program that had police riding public transportation, wasn't there? And it was a huge flop.

San Francisco also tried several programs before they found the right one. And our city government and the police department took a lot of flak for their slowness in finding something that worked. The public pressure on the government to keep working these problems to a good outcome is a good thing, imho. Turning that into some attack on Chavez isn't really to the point or helpful with respect to the actual problem.

[protocol rv]

28. Why not complain about Chavez?

he runs everything. He hand picks those in charge, and he micromanages a lot. I think it's very helpful to point out the government has poor performance in many key areas. They have to change fast, or they deserve defeat at the polls in September. Why should we vote for incompetents who after 10 years spend all the time pointing fingers at everybody else, and are re-inforcing a cult of personality around the President, when he's to blame for his poor decisions? The latest polls show public opinion is about 60 % against, 40 % for the government. At the current trend, he'll be left with his hardcore supporters at 30 % by the election time. Which means he's about to lose the National Assembly. And this is good, we need a counter to autocratic executive power.

[EFerrari]

30. You seem not to have read my post.

"The public pressure on the government to keep working these problems to a good outcome is a good thing, imho."

[Mika]

29. Cuba has done it right. One of the safest nations on earth.

Crime in Cuba
http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/article/Cuba/Common-Crime-in-Cuba/241

Crime rates in Cuba

Cuba easily has one of the lowest overall crime rates in all of Latin America. Cuba is often considered by most experienced travellers to be the safest of all Latin American countries and probably one of the safest tourist destinations in the world in terms of crime. However, like every country, Cuba is not immune to crime and it is always worthwhile being aware of a few potential dangers so you can avoid being a victim of crime while in Cuba.

Violent crime in Cuba

The rate of violent crime in Cuba is very low, and it is even rarer for violent crimes in Cuba to be perpetrated against foreign tourists. Cuban people in general are very friendly and helpful regardless of their economic status, so crimes such as mugging do not really occur very often in Cuba. The only obvious advice one can offer with regards to avoiding violent crime in Cuba is to stay in public places and not go anywhere isolated with people you’ve just met. You are more likely to be the victim of violent crime in Cuba at the hands of another drunken tourist than you are by a Cuban national.

Car crime in Cuba

Car crime does exist in Cuba. If you are renting a car in Cuba it is definitely worthwhile to pay one or two US dollars per night to a parking attendant to keep an eye on your car. Car crime in Cuba such as theft of the actual car is quite unusual. If you do become the victim of car related crime in Cuba it’s likely to be parts of the car such as the hub caps or windscreen wipers that are stolen, because it is easier to perpetrate these small crimes and easier to sell on the parts.

Sexual crime in Cuba

Sexual crime against tourists is also quite rare in Cuba. Of course, women travelling alone should be more vigilant and discerning about young Cuban men who they befriend in the streets. Male tourists in Cuba need to be more concerned that they do not inadvertently become the perpetrators of sexual crime in Cuba. There have been cases in the past where foreigners have been charged with sexual crimes against minors and handed out stiff prison penalties. Always make sure any female companion you meet is of legal age and do not take their word for it; ask to see some ID!

Petty crime in Cuba

Petty crime is the most common form of crime in Cuba. Unfortunately, this form of crime exists mainly because of the difficult economic situation that most Cubans find themselves in these days. Be aware of pick pockets that operate in crowded public tourist areas in Cuba, and take the usual precautions against such crime. Keep your wallet in your front pocket and if possible keep your passport in the hotel. If you are staying at a hotel in Cuba, make sure your suitcase has a lock on it, and before you leave the room every day lock your valuables in the suitcase, otherwise hotel workers may be tempted to take small things but they would never try to steal your whole suitcase.

Part of the freedom one feels in Cuba is the peace and tranquility of a near violence free society.

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