Venezuela holds Chavez critic for "conspiracy"

[Psephos]

Source: Reuters

Venezuelan authorities have jailed a former state governor and presidential candidate who accused President Hugo Chavez's government of links to subversive groups in Latin America.

The detention of Oswaldo Alvarez Paz, a veteran with the opposition COPEI party but not one of Chavez's most prominent foes, will fuel criticism that the Venezuelan leader is taking his nation down an increasingly dictatorial route. Alvarez joins a list of several dozen Chavez opponents now in jail, living in exile or facing probes in the South American oil-producing country.

With the political atmosphere heating up before legislative elections in September -- seen as a barometer for a 2012 presidential vote -- Chavez says his opponents are increasingly breaking laws in their desperation to topple him. A court ordered Alvarez's arrest at his home in Caracas late on Monday on charges of conspiracy, spreading false information and inciting hatred, judicial officials said on Tuesday.

<snip>

In a blow for Venezuela's reputation, the human rights wing of the Organization of American States last month criticized what it described as the concentration of power and curbing of civil liberties in Venezuela under Chavez.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62M2UL20100323

[DavidDvorkin]

1. The defenders will tell us that

Paz is just another CIA stooge.

[Bicoastal]

2. I swear, Chavez is responsible for so much popcorn at DU...

...he should take over Paul Newman's company.

Now then--
:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[RaleighNCDUer]

3. And this can't be true because nobody has ever conspired against Chavez. nt

[paulsby]

4. and like clockwork

they arrive.

[troubledamerican]

13. Like clockwork, the right-wing claims there was no coup against Chavez's democratically elected govt

[The Straight Story]

5. Rule #1 - anything, ever, negative about Chavez is false and the source is bad - all lies

It cannot be true, the real conspiracy is that all the world, and every single press outlet/website/citizen saying something negative about him is a CIA plant (and we probably also in on planting explosives in the WTC and faking people out with planes that were not there - if you saw planes - you lie or are mistaken).

I bet the fundies wish they could have such defenders of their religious guys like Swaggart, Rod Parsely, etc and so on. Cause they too know the truth and those against the truth are possessed with demons.

And did you know Chavez was born of a virgin, died in that coup attempt, and rose again to led his people happily to paradise. The people there worship him and so happy they piss themselves in the streets at the site of one of his posters or statues....

:)

[proteus_lives]

10. There are many on DU who need a "Dear Leader"

To flock around.

[troubledamerican]

15. Yes, as your moniker would suggest.

[EFerrari]

26. Actually, I've noticed just the opposite. It's posters that tend to authoritarianism

that freak out when Chavez won't be controlled by the United States.

Too bad, too, because the habit of independence is spreading all over Latin America.

Who knows how many democratic leaders DU authoritarians will have to freak out over in the coming years. :)

[Wilms]

17. Do you have anything substantiated to say? n/t

:shrug:

[Arkana]

6. So what arguments will the "Chavez is Jesus" brigade use to sweep this one under the rug?

[cowman]

7. Ohhhhhhhh

they'll find something and then attack those who critize him on this forum:nopity:

[Stella_Artois]

8. Someone tried to mount a coup !

It was a right wing plot, using the TV stations. That means it is OK to crack down on TV stations that don't want to broadcast his daily broadcast.

Because there was once a plot, it is also cool that he pronounced himself president for life. That way the people are safe.

This guy is an enemy of the people. He's not a Chavez supporter.

[Cha]

9. They'll blame it on

Obama:fistbump:

[struggle4progress]

11. The reporting has been unclear: many outlets are suggesting that

Alvarez has been charged for saying that Venezuela isn't doing a good job of controlling the illegal drug trade, but the wording on some local press suggests he actually said that the government was involved in the illegal drug trade and had connections to groups like ETA

I haven't really found any information about the incitement charge, which might be the most serious of the charges. The Reuters link in the OP says "inciting hatred" but Fox says "instigating public delinquency" while Poder360 says "inciting crime."

So is he jailed for saying "the Venezuelan government is crappy at controlling illegal drugs", or for saying something like "the Venezuelan government is dealing drugs and using the proceeds to fund terrorist groups", or for saying something like "grab whatever weapon you can to attack this government, which is dealing drugs and using the proceeds to fund terrorist groups"? I can't tell yet from the reporting

... The official said Alvarez Paz would be charged with conspiracy, instigating public delinquency and spreading false information ...
Tuesday, March 23, 2010
2nd UPDATE: Critic Of Venezuela's Chavez Arrested Over Comments
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/nd-update-critic-venezuelas-chavez-arrested-comments/

... Last Fri., a prosecutor charged him with conspiracy, inciting crime and distributing false information ...
martes 23 de marzo de 2010
Page One Daily News
VENEZUELA - Opposition Leader Detained
The former governor, Oswaldo Alvarez Paz, was charged by a prosecutor
http://www.poder360.com/dailynews_detail.php?blurbid=6391#ixzz0j2ae9dfQ

[hack89]

12. So why would suggesting the government was involved in drug trafficking

be a crime? Makes no sense to me - hard to imagine that democracy is so fragile that it can't survive such comments.

[COLGATE4]

14. Because 'Dear Leader' is getting more thin-skinned

as elections approach, and because he's an incrementalist, nibbling away at civil liberties rather than cancelling them wholesale.

[struggle4progress]

16. Personally, I prefer not to speculate until I know the actual facts,

which I am not yet sure I know

Much of the free world has a somewhat less absolutist view of free speech than we in America hold: in Germany, for example, holocaust denial is a crime; British libel law remains somewhat of a horror for American publishers; and if you search these forums, you will see that the demented rightwing loudmouth Ann Coulter is currently shrieking because a Canadian warned her that she might want to learn a bit about Canadian free speech laws before she went babbling crap in Ontario. The absolutely false claims that many Republicans made here, alleging that the health care bill would create death panels -- a claim that has provoked great and needless anxiety in certain segments of the population -- would not be regarded favorably in much of the world: it would be regarded as defamation or an unlawful attempt to create social unrest

Not knowing the facts, I do not currently have much by way of opinion regarding the case at hand


British Libel Law Examined After Controversial Gag Order Against The Guardian
October 16, 2009 10:00 AM
by Denis Cummings
... In September, British newspaper The Guardian obtained evidence that international oil trader Trafigura had known about the dangers of toxic waste that was dumped in the Ivory Coast, which made an estimated 30,000 people ill. On Sept. 11, Trafigura and its legal firm, Carter-Ruck, obtained an injunction against The Guardian that prevented the paper from reporting the story. On Monday, British MP Paul Farrelly submitted a question to Parliament about the injunction. Though the right to report on Parliament is guaranteed under the 1688 Bill of Rights, and though the question appeared on the Parliament Web site, Carter-Ruck used the injunction to prevent The Guardian from reporting the question ... http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/international/2009/Oct/British-Libel-Law-Examined-After-Controversial-Gag-Order.html

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. You do realize there is a very hot three-way shooting war going on

right next door to them, and at least 2 of the three players - if not all three - are deeply involved in the drug trade.

What would be a simple comment here could be tantamount to incitement there. What might here be political comment, there could be recruiting for RW anti-government militias (let's call them, say, Contras) there.

The contra-Chavistas here are all too ready to jump on any unsubstantiated, biased press against the Venezuelan government, while ignoring the history of the RW oligarchs there. When asked to provided substantiation they give contra-leftist rants instead. They aren't interested in what is going on - only in being contras.

(edited for spelling error)

[protocol rv]

22. I don't think it's properly to call us contra Chavistas

We happen to be opposed to government actions, and wish to replace the government with something a bit more effective. Most of us aren't right wing either. And we know exactly what's going on. Please do not patronize. Thank you and have a good day.

[EFerrari]

23. The same RW interests using the same stink tank talking points

and the same media outlets that attack Obama in the same way. But Chavez, he's a dictator and I think he's dear leader Jesus.

lmao

[Wilms]

18. Calling on the military to overthrow Chavez wasn't well received.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=405&topic_id=32807&mesg_id=32808

[protocol rv]

19. That may not be a reliable quote

I have been looking for the full transcript and can't find it. I saw an edited version on youtube, and the guy didn't say anything about overthrowing the government - but it may have been edited out. However, none of the government sites is actually quoting the man - at least none I can find. If you can find me the full transcript in Spanish, or a tape of the whole show, then let me know. My friends who saw it claim he never said anything about overthrowing the government.

Another issue: Chavez had a clause inserted in the Constitution which may be construed to approve advocacy of a violent overthrow. Many said at the time this was done to provide cover for Chavez, since he had himself led a failed coup which caused quite a few deaths. I think the clause is crazy, but the current constitution does have a few flaws.

[Bacchus39]

20. yep, very doubtful. and other news that has been building makes no mention of an overthrow

I am guessing that the poster wants a better case for his arrest.

[struggle4progress]

24. VENEZUELA: Opposition Leader Arrested for Remarks Denied Bail

... Álvarez Paz said ”Venezuela has become a centre of operations that facilitates drug trafficking deals” through ”ties between the regime and groups that serve the drug trade ...

Minister of the Interior and Justice Tarek El Aissami said Álvarez Paz was arrested ”not on instructions from President Hugo Chávez, but at the request of a court, on the basis of an investigation by the Public Ministry into an alleged crime ...

The president of parliament, Cilia Flores, also said Álvarez Paz ”is under arrest because he committed a crime, because he shot his mouth off” ...

The opposition considers more than 30 people political prisoners, including former civilian and military officials accused of corruption, police chiefs who played a controversial role during the brief April 2002 coup, reporters charged with administrative offences or causing bodily injury, and trade unionists prosecuted for holding protests outside of workplaces.

http://australia.to/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1735:venezuela-opposition-leader-arrested-for-remarks-denied-bail&catid=94:breaking-news

[EFerrari]

25. I wonder what Venezuela would do with this:

[Bacchus39]

27. a picture of Obama in the cross hairs of a rifle scope posted by you??

nothing I imagine.

[struggle4progress]

28. Does the Register Star know they're hosting that on their website?

[EFerrari]

29. I have no idea.