Latin America forum DUers who have been to Cuba (or lived there) - check in thread.

[Mika]

:hi:

[Judi Lynn]

1. Freecancat, from Canada, former DU'er would be happy to comment, as you know,

herself a habitual, regular traveler to Cuba, but her impatience and disgust for the right-wingers, her unwillingness to indulge their hostility amid their ignorance got her banned, sorry to say. Same with Osolomia. Same goes for Jean Sawyer.

If Guajira should still check in, you'll hear from her, just as you would Casey O'Hara.

I have seen so many people speaking up in LBN since 2001 who've been there. It was startling.

[Mika]

2. Yes. I remember them.

Funny thing that I've noticed about posters who have actually spent time in Cuba is that they agree with most of my personal experiences and observations. Cuba isn't a gulag. There are numerous independent newspapers and mags (both political and non political). There is free access to the internet for Cubans at many libraries. There are free elections with candidate nominations by the people, not any party. Cubans in Cuba love their health care and education systems. They have never felt safer anywhere than when in Cuba.

Weird that the only people who take the time to post their darkest fantasies about Cuba and take the time to post the numerous RW links (most of which have been completely debunked - many times right here on DU threads), and take the time to insult and accuse DUers (who have no anti-Cuba stance) of all types of horrors, are persons who have never been there.


Its too bad that our old friends have moved on from DU (surely frustrated by the ever repeating nonsense and flaming). I miss them.

:hi:

[naaman fletcher]

3. "There are free elections with candidate nominations by the people, not any party. "

So who did Raul have to campaign against to gain his leadership spot?

[Mika]

4. First he had to win the seat in the parliament for the district he represents.

I don't have the candidate list on my work computer for his district last election. I'm still at work.

After that, any MP can be nominated to the Head of State position. Of course, Raul Castro being a revolutionary war hero and a master of defense in the US's Bay of Pigs attack was honored with the position by the elected members of the Cuban Assembly (parliament).


http://www.worldpress.org/Americas/3075.cfm

The Cuban electoral system is almost inexplicable when compared to that of the United States and other Western nations. Gerardo Bencomo, a Cuban citizen and a historian at the prestigious Cuban government-sponsored Casa de Las Americas cultural institute in Havana, explained, "Only candidates who are nominated by ordinary citizens are allowed to run for local office." In this process, electoral commissions are set up at the municipal levels. These are formed by citizens known for their exemplary work within the community who also are regarded as loyal to Cuba's revolutionary ideals and its present leadership. The right to vote is the only precondition to attain membership on the electoral commissions. Neither the Communist Party of Cuba nor any other political or social organization officially sponsors these steps in the process. Subsequently, Bencomo said, "the electoral commission uses a simple hand-vote to select the list of nominees for the municipal elections and for half of the provincial legislature offices." At this point, 12,000 municipal council representatives and half of the provincial legislatures are then elected by eligible voters by means of a secret ballot. The effectiveness of the electoral system depends on the high rate of participation at these local meetings where candidates for the next level are selected. The municipal elections are an essential element of the evolving Cuban representative system, which will indicate promise as long as true engagement and unfettered rights of Cubans to choose their candidates are respected.

National Assembly

According to the respected worldwide, nonpartisan Inter-Parliamentary Union, candidates for the other half of the provincial seats and the National Assembly of People's Power "are otherwise proposed by … which comprised of representatives of workers, youth, women, students, and farmers as well as members of the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution. The final list of candidates, (which corresponds to the number of seats to be filled), is drawn up by the National Candidature Commission, after taking representing local block groupings into account, criteria such as candidates' merit, patriotism, ethical values, and revolutionary history." Although the number of candidates listed on the ballot is exactly equal to the number of seats open in the provincial legislature and the National Assembly, the candidates still must win 51 percent of the votes to get elected. Unlike in Australia and Argentina, among many other countries, voting in Cuba is not mandatory. However, electoral commissions may keep tabs on those who habitually do not vote. Non-voters are then sometimes labeled as unpatriotic and may even be subject to a fine. So, citizens are normally well motivated to vote. Nevertheless, Bencomo states that "voters can enter the voting box, where they have the choice to destroy their ballot or place an X next to 'refuse to vote.'" The point is that Cubans don't have to participate in elections even if it means annulling their ballots, and even though voting is considered a patriotic act in Cuba.
The Batista Reign

Cuba's electoral system is very different today from the one that operated on the island prior to 1959. Before the Castro revolution occurred, the existing electoral was cynically manipulated by the Fulgencio Batista regime, as deceased Cubans miraculously were exhumed and then voted, while government sympathizers were allowed to cast multiple ballots. According to the Cuban Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the 2003 national elections reflected a 98 percent voter turnout. Conversely, in 1944, Ramón Grau San Martin was elected president of Cuba with only a 45 percent voter turnout rate, and in 1954, a similar situation occurred when Batista was elected with a voter turnout rate of 46 percent. The high abstention rates in Cuban elections before 1959 compares with the 2000 presidential election in the United States, where George W. Bush was elected with only 37 percent of all registered voters. Needless to state, the legitimacy of Bush's electoral victory is still being aggressively debated today.

While I was studying at the Casa de Las Americas in Havana, the president of the country's national assembly, Ricardo Alarcón, expressed his perspective on Cuba's developing democracy as he talked to our class. He stated that he believes the democratic process in the national assembly is improving because members in the parliament have to be nominated and then elected by the community. Hugo Chávez enthusiastically has labeled Cuba's electoral system as a "revolutionary democracy," while other Cuban sympathizers routinely call it "grassroots democracy."

The 2008 Cuban Election and Opposition Groups

On Sunday, Jan. 20, 2008, Cubans voted to elect members to the national parliament and to fill the other half of the open provincial seats for five-year terms. The new 614-member national parliament—National Assembly of People's Power—will elect a 31-member Council of State (which includes the ministry positions) as well as the nation's president from within the legislative body in February. Similar to the United States, with its Electoral College, Cubans technically indirectly elect their president.

The Cuban Foreign Ministry reported that in October of 2008 "more than 8.1 million voters—95 percent of those registered—cast ballots to elect more than 12,000 delegates to 169 municipal assemblies across the island." According to BBC News, several dissident groups, with a history of being ignored or denounced by Cuban authorities, once again boycotted these municipal elections. For the Jan. 20, 2008, provincial and national elections, Reuters reported that a resounding 96 percent of registered voters turned out to cast their vote for provincial bodies and the National Assembly for People's Power elections.

The Role of the Communist Party

Critics of Cuban elections are quick to claim that voters are compelled to vote for communist party members because they are afraid either to abstain or to cast their ballots against the official candidates. Cubans, in fact, consistently tend to elect members who have significant ranking within the regime. According to the Latin News, the election of Raúl Castro and other members of the regime to the National Assembly in the Jan. 20 elections carried with them no surprises because "there were 614 candidates for exactly the same number of seats in congress." However, despite the fact voters do not have to vote for the candidates listed on the ballot, and that the candidates need to obtain more than 50 percent of the votes to get elected, to say that voters are intimidated to vote for Communist Party members ignores the fact that many Cubans actually eagerly vote for them because they passionately believe that the party officials advocate for the progress of the Cuban society as a whole. It would be simplistic to conclude that Cubans are forced to vote for members of the regime. These blanket statements contribute to the prevailing, albeit relatively uninformed, United States analysis of Cuba's electoral process.

On the other hand, several Cuban-American anti-Castro groups, as well as dissident bodies within Cuba, together with human rights organizations in the United States, the European Union, the Organization of American States, and nongovernmental organizations (such as Human Rights Watch) claim that Cuba's elections lack legitimacy because nonofficial factions are either ignored or barred from participating in the electoral process.

---

[naaman fletcher]

5. from your info (thank you by the way)..

"These are formed by citizens known for their exemplary work within the community who also are regarded as loyal to Cuba's revolutionary ideals and its present leadership."

Who forms them? That wasn't clear to me. Also, basically what you are saying is that the people who nominate the candidates have to be loyal to the current government?

Does that sound like free elections to you? What if Cheney had tried to change the constitution so that only loyal republicans could nominate candidates to office?

[Mika]

6. Says right before your quote

"According to the respected worldwide, nonpartisan Inter-Parliamentary Union, candidates for the other half of the provincial seats and the National Assembly of People's Power "are otherwise proposed by … which comprised of representatives of workers, youth, women, students, and farmers as well as members of the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution."

Keep in mind that is about half of the slate selected in this manner. The other half is done by ordinary citizens in candidacy commission meetings. Like this one ....


Residents of the Nuevo Vedado neighboorhood attend a meeting during municipal
elections in Havana, Sept. 11, 2007. Cuba’s communist system is built in part on
these block-by-block gatherings, where anyone 16 and over can nominate neighbors
and vote on candidates for local government. (AP Photo/Prensa Latina)



Nonetheless, any candidate running to gain a seat - no matter how selected - must first be elected by a winning margin in an election, and then ratified in an additional election by at least 50% +1 of the voters in their respective district.

---

[naaman fletcher]

13. That's still not clear to me...

Who decides who are the representatives of the workers, youth, women, etc.

[Mika]

16. They are elected to head their respective unions.

All professions, trades, vocations are represented by a union in Cuba. The union leaders are elected to their position.


If you are really interested in learning about this, then you would do well by getting this book, which delves into the minute details of the process.

Democracy in Cuba and the 1997-98 Elections
Arnold August
1999
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0968508405/qid=1053879619/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/102-8821757-1670550?v=glance&s=books



I notice that its a little pricey right now on Amazon, but the price fluctuates a lot, based on demand. I bought several last year for $19 each.

---

[protocol rv]

7. I have a Cuban citizen next to me

Who left Cuba a few months ago. He says that unless things have been changed radically in the last 90 days, you are wrong.

[Judi Lynn]

8. Mika has Cuban relatives STILL living in Cuba, Mika has lived in Cuba,

worked in Cuba, taught in Cuba, married someone in Cuba.

Give your Cuban friend a big hug from D.U.

[protocol rv]

14. Mika is a good supporter of the Cuban regime

And that's all I have to say about that. I gave my Cuban friend a big hug. He went back to his medical module after we played some dominoes. As it turns out, Cubans use a much more complicated domino set than we use, they go up to nines. So he plays a different style.

I really can't discuss much about myself, it's dangerous given the circumstances. But I do have access to Cubans, and they don't agree with the comments Mika posts. He may have worked in Cuba, and taught in Cuba, and so on. They say they have seen communist believers come to Cuba from abroad, they are given nicer houses, are treated very well, and they are almost like converts to a religion. But the people who have to endure the life there, they don't seem very happy with it. They say it is very depressing, the more educated one becomes, the more one realizes the country is an anomaly, their lives are regimented as if they were children, and they have very little hope of seeing change. They say 1984 by George Orwell describes very well how they feel.

So you see, because I have heard so much from these Cuban people I know, and it is first hand, there is very little Dr Mika can post here to convince me otherwise, since he doesn't provide much other than his own words. His zealous pro-Cuba postings, which seem so quaint at times, tell me he is indeed a strong believer in communism. And when people fall in the trap of believing in something so much, then they are blinded to the potential flaws or deffects. This I believe was said by Dutch Liberal to be "cognitive dissonance", and it is very common.

I have also seen it when I debate strong Zionists, and American "conservatives". To tell you the truth, the most uncomfortable instance I have had recently was when I was attending a fairly high-brow dinner and I said I felt President Bush was the worst president the US ever had, and an American guest, evidently a "tea party member", almost hit me and then left the dinner, extremely upset. Why would anybody be so upset unless they were so blinded they could not see that indeed Bush is an animal wearing a suit, a war criminal, and an idiot on top? And I didn't use these words, I just said he was the worst president ever.

[Mika]

15. Wrong. I am a supporter of the Cuban people in Cuba, and their good works and deeds.

So, if the Cuban people in Cuba support their system of government (and they have good reason to do so, imo), then I support their decision to do so.

Just because most Cubans in Cuba revere their revolutionary heroes doesn't mean that I do. I respect their choice to do so, just as I respect the Cuban domestic (as in: non US funded) opposition to oppose.

It is the Cubaphobes here who have painted the Cuba debate as a black-or-white debate, in that one either hates Castro/Cuba with vehemence or you are a Castro lover. This is a false choice. Cuba is a constantly evolving revolution - mainly a large grey area of economic, social, political structures that are all created and occupied by the Cuban people.

... there is very little Dr Mika can post here to convince me otherwise, since he doesn't provide much other than his own words.

I guess that I'm wasting my time with you when I'm posting the many hundreds of links to information about Cuba.


Viva Cuba! (Not Castro.)

---

[protocol rv]

28. But most of the information you post is false

According to the people I talk to. I also wonder, where do you get the idea they support the regime? They don't have freedom of expression.

[Judi Lynn]

29. You need to post some substantive links. "The people I know say you're wrong" is worthless.

I'm claiming the people I know say what the people you know say about what Mika says is insane!

We're not here to haggle.

Either bring in some information or drop it.

Mika has his own life experiences.

If you truly are Venezsuelan you are free to go to Cuba any time you want, and check for yourself. You should do that.

[protocol rv]

37. Why go to Cuba?

We have Cubans crawling all over the place over here. And you would be surprised to see how much they talk when they are free to do so. I have also posted numerous times the criticism of the Cuban regime by Human Rights Watch and other NGO's. Also the European Parliament's complaint against the Cuban regime, and others. Do you want me to do it again?

[boppers]

17. "There is free access to the internet for Cubans at many libraries"

How many Cubans are on DU?

How many have home access to the internet?

[Mika]

18. Don't know. How many?

Please, do tell.

---

[boppers]

21. Here's a few sources:

http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/internet-access-in-cuba-maybe-in-2010/
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-cuba-internet-cutoff-050709,0,4376220.story
http://www.cubaverdad.net/internet_access_2.htm
http://laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=353831&CategoryId=14510

Those are mostly from the right, but it looks like there's some pipe being laid from Venezuela:
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Cuba_to_receive_high_speed_internet_connection_from_Venezuela

Overall, it looks bleak, but with some good intentions. In a few years, they may have as much freedom (and censorship) as the Chinese have.

[Billy Burnett]

22. Hi boppers.

Sorry to butt-in to your conversation. You do know that Cuba has limited bandwidth due to the lack of connection to the embargoed main Caribbean trunk fiber optic cables, (they are US owned or leased so Cuba trade is off limits to them). As you note, it looks like Venezuela is helping solve that problem. Up until that time the Cuban government has determined that the little and expensive bandwidth they do have be prioritized by need first and foremost rather than by afford-ability (monetary rationing - those who can afford what the market will bear will get it, those that can't won't). Prioritized WWW bandwidth is reserved for their health care system, and their education system, and some of their government operations.

As for private availability for personal uses, cost is the main reason that few Cubans have personal access to the WWW other than at the libraries. Their ISP access to the WWW is via sat dishes or phone lines. Both relatively slow and prohibitively expensive per MB of delivery.

As I see it, Cuba has (Cubans have, via their choices in representation) made the choice to prioritize the infrastructural needs for all of the people rather than engratiate the market system and corporate profits.

I participated in the installation of some Cuban inter hospital fiber optic infranet systems in the 90's when I worked for a Canadian communication systems company. At that time Cuba was using microwave data transmission systems for this (like a fixed cell system), but it was problematic and slow.

Cheers.

[boppers]

24. "Limited bandwidth" is the same argument the Chinese use.

I come from the 2600bps generation, there's no technical reason to deny port 80 any less, or more, than port 25.... the reasons are political. You don't need a fiber drop to be on the web, you need connectivity, which can be as simple as a phone line. If you have copper, you can have ATM, if you have ATM, you can set up massive in-country links, even if your off-shore links are slow.

[Mika]

26. Is China under US extra territorial sanctions (including hi speed connectivity)? No.

FYI, Cubans can connect via slo modem & phone lines. Problem is - its expensive.

We've been discussing this for a while now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2729086&mesg_id=2729584

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/tech/main592416.shtml

E-net is the largest of a handful of Internet providers in Cuba

-

E-net customers who do not have the dollar phone service can keep accessing the Internet with the ordinary phone service with special cards sold at Etecsa offices, the letter says.

[boppers]

27. Expensive and illegal, unless authorized by the government.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2009/12/13/1379458/american-subcontractors-arrest.html

I'm sure there have been threads about this incident, as well.

[Mika]

23. "How many Cubans are on DU?"

I just love the regularity of that RW/anti Cuba talking point.

If we're using the DU post yardstick I guess that Cuban-Americans are restricted from freely using the internet discussion boards too. They must be very fearful of some kind of repression seeing as how their internet is so much more affordable than it is to Cubans in Cuba, but yet they are not furiously posting to DU.


All kidding aside, I know DU used to have a Cuban (in Cuba) poster here, but that person gave up (or was banned) after some serious hostility and relentless flame wars in the Cuba threads.

DU also had a Cuban-American posting here a long while ago (calling some of us out a "Castro lovers" and other such inanities). He now is running a website critical of US police brutality and media restriction he encountered in Miami. (E Ferrari posted a thread recently celebrating the newfound fame of that poster.)

[boppers]

25. "furiously posting"? No. Posting at *all*. Having a basic human right of communication with others.

The "talking point", as you put it, illustrates a greater topic, that there is limited communications freedom in Cuba. DU simply happens to be a shared medium for both parties of the talking point.

If you'd like a more nuanced point, for a different media:
"Can you give me some email addresses of Cubans whose online activities aren't registered, and monitored, by the Cuban government?"

[Billy Burnett]

9. Checking in.

I've been there a bunch of times. Some for work. Some for play.

:hi:

[Mika]

11. Hi Billy.

:hi:

Didn't you go there once to install or design some aspect of Cuba's fiberoptic infranet?

---

[flamingdem]

10. I've been there many times, enough to have a balanced idea

and I think the main focus needs to be the end of the US Embargo against Cuba. The USA has been so wrong with Cuba, for so long and has allowed a disaster of diplomacy when other outcomes were available.

In terms of conflict resolution, the right wing has zero interest in the the real position of Cuba right now, they just want to dominate (see Health Care), take, aggress, and offer no solutions. (And get paid to do this with US taxpayer dollars).

Cuba is far from perfect. That's not the point. The point is that if one were to put oneself in their shoes, their actions make sense. The gross inability for the US politicians to do that, EVEN A LITTLE, is shameful. Obama has drunk the Kool Aid, mostly because Cuba is relatively unimportant, the voters in Florida are too critical.

Sadly, I feel very little leadership has emerged in the USA on the Cuba issue, and I am also sad that the Cuban government has dealt so roughly with some of its younger leaders. The leadership is shackled by ideology on one side and economic mismanagement-embargo woes on another. Interestingly, over time some of Fidel's ideas seem even more prescient but he still expresses himself in attack mode, in my opinion. The problem is that due to the extreme pressure from El Norte we have never been able to see how Cuba might be given the chance to work through it's focus on survival against a massive enemy. Thus, one can project anything on that screen, as many do, but it's distorted due to extreme historical events.

I sense that Obama will play a role in easing tensions once he gets the republicans under control.

Otherwise, the passing of time will decide.

[Mika]

12. Hi flamingdem.

:hi:

Cuban independence is only 50 yrs old. Considering that it took "the greatest nation in the world" 188 years to become fully democratic (meaning: all citizens fully enfranchised with a right to vote), Cuba isn't doing too badly in the larger scheme of things.

---

[flamingdem]

19. Hi Mika

I think it is important to acknowledge the problems in Cuba, because they themselves acknowledge them and take steps to address things and make improvements. They don't need excuses made for them, they need to address huge problems. The mismanagement has been discussed openly and examined by Cuban economists.

The firing and subsequent marginalization of Perez Roque and Carlos Lage was something they will not discuss very openly.

[Mika]

20. Its been a hard row to hoe for them. Always under duress.

The Breckenridge Memorandum
http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/bmemo.htm

J.C. Breckenridge, U.S. Undersecretary of War in 1897,
sent the following memo to the Commander of the U.S. Army,
Lieutenant General Nelson A. Miles.

The island of Cuba, a larger territory, has a greater population density than Puerto Rico, although it is unevenly distributed. This population is made up of whites, blacks, Asians and people who are a mixture of these races. The inhabitants are generally indolent and apathetic. As for their learning, they range from the most refined to the most vulgar and abject. Its people are indifferent to religion, and the majority are therefore immoral and simultaneously they have strong passions and are very sensual. Since they only possess a vague notion of what is right and wrong, the people tend to seek pleasure not through work, but through violence. As a logical consequence of this lack of morality, there is a great disregard for life.

It is obvious that the immediate annexation of these disturbing elements into our own federation in such large numbers would be sheer madness, so before we do that we must clean up the country, even if this means using the methods Divine Providence used on the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah.

We must destroy everything within our cannons’ range of fire. We must impose a harsh blockade so that hunger and its constant companion, disease, undermine the peaceful population and decimate the Cuban army. The allied army must be constantly engaged in reconnaissance and vanguard actions so that the Cuban army is irreparably caught between two fronts and is forced to undertake dangerous and desperate measures.

Considering how far Cubans have come in the short period since they've cast off the shackles of imperialism, about 50 years, and under constant duress the entire time, Cuba has done well in creating fair and complete social safety nets and infrastructure. Compared to much of the Caribbean & Latin American nations, Cuba is a leader in enfranchising the will of the people.

---

[rabs]

30. Booting

:kick:


Was in Key West a few years ago. Stared at the ocean and Cuba was only 90 miles away, but it might as well have been on the dark side of the moon because of the travel ban.

Maybe, just maybe this year. Have a Cuban friend, a professor in La Habana, who sends us emails urging us to go visit him and his family.

[protocol rv]

31. Don't be chicken

Go to Canada, and fly to Cuba from Toronto. You'll probably like the adventure, and they don't have much crime. Just make sure you pack light. My Cuban friends say the latest trick the government uses is to tax them for everything they take in. And don't forget to take medicines - sometimes they're really hard to find.

[Mika]

33. ROFL

Gawd, you're a funny one.
You title your post "Don't be chicken", and you follow with your own chickenshit list of phobias re: Cuba. :scared: :scared:
:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: 'Be afraid of Cuba. Cuz I am'. :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared:

:rofl:

---

[Judi Lynn]

34. There was a schism in the logic in that sage advise, considering the context.

http://ibexinc.files.wordpress.com.nyud.net:8090/2009/11/shocked-face.jpg
Thanks for pointing it out! It could hurt people's heads!

[protocol rv]

35. Please enlighten us

I've heard from several visitors it's hard to find medicine in Cuba. So now please tell us your version of the current situation.

This is from wikitravel

"Finding medication is however often difficult. It is highly recommended to stock up on off-the-shelf medication before heading to Cuba, as pharmacies lack many medications that westerners might expect to find, such as aspirin, immodium and diarrhoea relief medication. Havana also features a clinic (and emergency room) for foreigners, which offers extremely prompt service. Toiletries such as shampoo, conditioner, razors, tampons and condoms are also hard to come across and expensive so stock up before you leave."

"Cuban milk is usually unpasteurised, and can make visitors sick. Additionally, tourists should be wary of vegetables washed in tap water. Despite the warnings, most Cuban food is safe to eat and you do not need to be paranoid."

http://wikitravel.org/en/Cuba

[Judi Lynn]

32. That would be wonderful. I remember years ago, you mentioned to some of your friends

at another meeting place online, after _{George W. Bush} had banned ALL exchange with national Cubans here, that your friend had been formally engaged by an East Coast university to make a speech, and during mid-flight he was notified his invitation had been terminated because the government had stepped in and cancelled it.

He landed, then spent the day with you and your wife before taking the flight back.

A visit with him under happier circumstances would probably be wonderful.

Be sure to tell us, after you get back, if you don't mind, if you decide to do it.

Cuban citizens can always use a pleasant encounter with more examples of DECENT people from the U.S., you know!

[Mika]

36. Three. That's it? Three?

So much for the anti Cuba "experts" and their personal experience base on the subject of Cuba.
AIHRWRSF Cubanet is just about all they've got on Cuba. IOW - nothing.

101st kybd brigade



Viva Cuba!

Cubans. At work, helping the world. Not posting on DU. lol
http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/news/gallery/2007/jul/17/internationalnews/[e-mail]

medicc.org/ns/assets/images/haiti/HAITI2445N0%20(Small).JPG

---

[roody]

38. I've gone twice with Pastors for Peace.

Now I am planning to go on my own. We watched one of those eye surgeries on the big screen from an auditorium. I highly recommend this trip. www.ifconews.org

[protocol rv]

39. How nice

This time try to see if you can talk to people about their jails. But I doubt they'll talk to you, if you are seen as a government sympathizer.

[Mika]

41. Here's an observation from a friend who did exactly what you suggest.

Not the gulag that was expected. Nothing better than personal experience, rather than relying on mewling Castrophobes.

LESSONS FROM OUR NEIGHBORS TO THE SOUTH:
THE CUBAN PRISON SYSTEM - REFLECTIVE OBSERVATIONS 2000
http://afrocubaweb.com/elijah.htm

by Prof. Soffiyah Elijah
Clinical Instructor
Criminal Justice Institute
Harvard Law School

Since the island nation of Cuba experienced its successful revolution in 1959 its prison system has been evolving. Despite accusations of harsh human rights abuses from its neighbors to the North, Cuba today maintains a prison system that is in many respects far more humane than Western propaganda would have the uninformed public believe.

My study of the Cuban prison system began in 1987 when I first visited the country to attend a conference co-sponsored by the American Association of Jurists and the Cuban Association of Jurists. I was pleasantly surprised during the trip when the opportunity arose to visit a men's prison. A group of conference attendees traveled by bus to the prison and when we arrived we were not searched and our belongings were not checked. We did not sign in or out. Nobody asked to check our identification. Having visited numerous prisons in the U.S. I have never entered any of them without a thorough search of my person and my belongings. Government issued photo identification is always required.

Although we were given a tour of the prison we were free to wander off and talk with the prisoners unmonitored. We walked all around the facility and were allowed to go into cells, work areas, the cafeteria, hospital, classrooms, recreation area and any other space we chose. This we were allowed to do unaccompanied. The prisoners wore street clothing.

Although one might think that this must have been a minimum or medium security prison, there are no such institutional classifications. Prison institutions are not characterized by security level. Rather prisoners of varying security levels are all housed in the same facility. The four levels of security classification for prisoners are maximum, high, moderate and minimum. The distinction in their security classification is borne out in the frequency with which they are allowed family and conjugal visits, mail, phone privileges and furlough availability. All prisoners, regardless of security level, are afforded at least four family and conjugal visits a year. Prisoners with the lowest security classifications are afforded more frequent family and conjugal visits than higher security classified prisoners.

Needless to say I was a bit taken aback at this very different approach. For the next thirteen years I built on this experience and conducted further research on the Cuban prison system.

In 1988 I returned to Cuba to attend the International Women¹s Conference hosted by the Federation of Cuban Women (FMC). Another opportunity arose to visit a prison, this time it was a women’s facility. My impressions were very similar to those I had when I visited the men’s facility. In a nutshell, the Cuban system still impressed me as being more humane than what I had observed in the United States.

Prisoners in Cuba are incarcerated in the province in which they live. A province is the geographic equivalent to a county as we know it in the United States. This is done to facilitate regular contact between prisoners and their families. This contact is seen as an integral part of the prisoner¹s rehabilitation. Families are incorporated through joint counseling into the rehabilitation process. Each prison is staffed with professionals who are trained to assist the family and the prisoner plan for his or her re-entry into the community. The focus is on rehabilitation as opposed to retribution and punishment.

Prisoners or their families may request conditional liberty passes. These are similar to furloughs and are granted to allow the prisoner to tend to his or a family member’s health. The furlough time is counted as part of the sentence.

Prisoners are not obligated to work. Work is considered a right of the prisoner so that he can earn an income. Prisoners are allowed to work in the same sort of employment as they held prior to their incarceration if it is available at the facility where they are being held. They are compensated for their labor at the same wage that free workers are compensated. They are not charged room and board no matter how much they earn. Similarly, they do not have to pay for their education, medical, dental or hospital care or any other activities they experience. Social security benefits and pensions are available to all prison laborers. In the event of a prisoner’s death, his family will receive his pension. A portion of the prisoner’s earnings is sent to his family. Even if a prisoner does not work, his family will be cared for by the State.

Once a prisoner has served at least half of his sentence he can request a conditional release if he is a first offender. A positive conduct record is the primary factor considered in granting the request for relief. The request for conditional release is made to the sentencing tribunal. The district attorney is given an opportunity to be heard with respect to the request. All prisoners are released after serving two thirds of their sentences.

In 1997 the availability of alternatives to incarceration was expanded to cover all defendants sentenced to up to five years incarceration. Previously these alternatives were only available to defendants sentenced to up to three years. The expansion of the availability of alternatives to incarceration to all defendants facing up to five years’ incarceration covered almost 95% of Cuba¹s prisoners. The recidivism rate for those prisoners released pursuant to the use of alternatives to incarceration is less than 15%. These alternatives include a form of probation, conditional release (similar to parole) and suspended sentences.

The conditional release program is very interesting. The defendant lives for twelve days in a residence located near a farm or industrial center. He works at the farm or industrial center during these twelve days. Then he has three days off where he can leave the residence and go home to his family. On the fourth day, the defendant returns to the work site and the residence. The defendant works side by side with non-incarcerated workers who are not informed of his status. He is paid the same wage as his co-workers and is afforded the same benefits and privileges. He works the same shifts and wears civilian clothing. Work alternatives can be revoked if the defendant fails to adhere to the rules and conditions of the program. The sentencing tribunal is informed if the defendant fails to meet the conditions and it can decide to return the defendant to prison.

The goal of the Cuban prison system is to return people to the community as productive contributors as soon as possible. Therefore the focus is not on punishment, but rather on rehabilitation and re-education. Perhaps this goal would be a useful addition to the prison system that has evolved in the United States.

[protocol rv]

42. unfortunately, he wasn't shown all the prisons

There are other prisons where conditions are terrible. Evidently he was taken to show case prisons, not the real deal. My Cuban friends say the prisons where they keep the political prisoners are pretty bad.

[Mika]

43. Gawd, you are a hoot.

:rofl: + :crazy:

---

[Judi Lynn]

44. Yeah, like the one where that loon who claimed he was paralyzed stayed,

and some idiots believed his yarns, until Cuba produced video of him doing vigorous excercises in his cell.

[Judi Lynn]

40. Pastors for Peace have been grudgingly respected by the U.S. government

for years and years. It seems when they've consficated their materials at the border they usually got them back, if I'm remembering correctly.

What makes their work so additionally notable is the fact they REFUSE to bow to the immoral controls of the embargo on Cuba.

Let us know if you go on your own, roody. It would be great to hear how it went.

We remember your trip a year or two ago to the Peace Community in Colombia. Very dangerous going somewhere where the people are self-declared pacifists, as we all know. As far as Uribe's military and paras are concerned it's open season on them if they decide to go after them, regardless of their "protected" status in international law.

[roody]

45. with Witness for Peace --- another great group

[Mika]

46. A big....

:kick: