OAS' Insulza rejects statements made by Venezuelan general

[ChangoLoa]

Jose Miguel Insulza, the Secretary General of the Organization of American States (OAS), labelled on Wednesday as "unacceptable" the statements made by General Henry Rangel Silva, head of the Strategic Operational Command National, who said that a hypothetical opposition government "would amount to selling away the country."

"I do not have a view about statements made by senior government officials, but in this case I make an exception," Insulza said in an interview with Andrés Oppenheimer, a Miami Herald columnist.

"The fact that an army commander threatens with an a priori insubordination is unacceptable. Venezuela's ruling civilian authority should correct that," Insulza said, as reported by Oppenheimer.


http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/11/11/en_pol_esp_oas-insulza-rejects_11A4717493.shtml

[bemildred]

1. LOL.

Another tempest in a teapot. Never give up.
:popcorn::popcorn:

[Judi Lynn]

2. "..... as reported by Oppenheimer." God, what WOULD the "exiles" do without their mouthpiece

at the Miami Herald?

http://www.venelogia.com.nyud.net:8090/uploads/andres_oppenheimer1.jpg http://3.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_ywSvQZuuiEw/St6rMmYMdOI/AAAAAAAAX_I/9GUDgyYdc30/s400/20091021elpepuint_2.jpg

Miami's own Andrés Oppenheimer, pompous voice of the right-wing radical reactionaries.

[social_critic]

3. The general made the statement, and Chavez congratulated him

I suppose you can't read the press in Spanish or watch Venezuelan TV. It's all over, there's no doubt about it: The man said an opposition government would not be acceptable to the military brass. Chavez went on and promoted him, praised him, and also insulted generals who didn't take the same position. It seems they are moving along the same path as all other communist regimes - a corrupt party oligarchy tied to the secret police and the military, able to impose its rule by force as needed.

[Judi Lynn]

4. Do you imagine they have death squads, like right wing puppets?

Like that filthy, stinking vicious idiot, the bloody Batista?

I seriously doubt that.

Miami is the armpit of this country, named "America's Terror Capital" by the F.B.I. due to its dirtball terrorists blowing up other Cubans with more moderate views, murdering people they couldn't stand politically, using their evil C-4 to intimidate everyone into total submission to their ignorant, self-centered, racist rule. It's absolutely no wonder at all Cuba and Latin America can't stand these right-wing scums, and wish to push them as far away as possible. They are human garbage.

[social_critic]

5. Nice atempt to change subject

We are discussing the signs that we may see the end of democracy in Venezuela. The general did say the military should ignore election results if Chavez loses in 2012 - his party already lost the majority in the last elections, and things are getting worse, so it would seem likely he's headed for defeat.

But this anti-democracy general was promoted afterwards, rather than being punished. And Isulza did critize the general's statement. This may be headed for a showdown in 2012, which may degenerate into a split of Latin American nations as the more democracy-minded ones are forced to use the Interamerican Charter. Venezuela may indeed become like Honduras, a pariah which splits the community. And this of course spells the end of Unasur. Kirchner must be spinning in his grave, his dream is being shattered.

[Judi Lynn]

6. Yeah, you bet. You're not going to win any converts among leftists

by trying to vilify and endorse clear crap being thrown around concerning another leftist President.

There's a #### story pitched every single day about Hugo Chavez. Anyone sensible enough to keep track of these things long enough to see the pattern, knew that long ago.

You can't keep shrieking, "This is surely the end of Hugo Chavez," when we've seen these whoppers rolling by every single day for years. They all only get replaced by the next whopper. There are so many of them they all blur together. What a colossal joke.

Haven't you ever taken the time to become informed on history in Latin America? They've already SEEN what the right-wing does to people. They aren't going to go back that way again. That was when they lived in hell, and dirty oligarchs ran the governments, working as the scum-sucking maggot puppets of US interests, at the total expense of their countrymen/women.

The right is NOT going to take control again, you'll have to get used to it.

[ChangoLoa]

7. This has nothing to do about the "right" gaining control

This is one of the Army top commanders saying the military wouldn't accept a non chavista government which could be left wing, green, red, centrist or right wing.

[naaman fletcher]

9. Not all leftists

Support heavy military spending, promoting generals that are not supportive of free civilian elections, supporting terrorists, and promoting citizens taking on debt to buy cheap Chinese junk. The democratic party does not even support that. It is the realm of a few people on the LA forum.

[Judi Lynn]

10. Heavy military spending. That's a hot one. We've heard that from visitors over and over,

and they all are simply howling in the wind when they try it.

Got some charts to examine:

6/5/10
Military Spending in Latin America, 2009

http://1.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_7Se7iswAanA/TAp7t_VJo6I/AAAAAAAALuQ/ughwwdPosrs/s400/mil1.gif

"overall spending in dollar terms per country"

"Brazil was, far and away, the biggest spending country in 2009 with over $27Bn as the total budget. Next was Colombia spending over U$10Bn on all things warrior. Then comes Chile and Mexico and then down in 5th place comes the country painted as the big regional military spender by Hillary&Co, Venezuela.

But size of country matters too, so in this next chart we see the biggest spending countries in terms of total bill as a percentage of GDP.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_7Se7iswAanA/TAp7uQ0OdyI/AAAAAAAALuY/jCoYG_1-0BI/s400/mil2.gif
So from this we see that Colombia spends the most on its military compared to the size of its economy. Then close behind comes Chile (its military is directly funded by state copper company Codelco) and then Ecuador (that has to look after its border with Colombia due to the FARC). Fourth place is Brazil (which suddenly looks pretty reasonable, but it'd be better if it were off the chart low as Mexico is) and then in fifth place again comes Venezuela, edging out that other obvious destabilizing threat to the world, the nasty belligerent bunch from.....errrr....Uruguay.

Then there's this chart, which is really quite bizarre. This shows the Year-over-Year (YoY) change in military spending, with the 2009 spending as a percentage to 2008 spending.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_7Se7iswAanA/TAp7u-uTZAI/AAAAAAAALug/AWGEUkmIB8M/s400/mil3.gif
Uruguay boosted its spending on the military the most in 2009 compared to the previous year, but as the sector is quite small in absolute terms we're not that worried. Then comes Ecuador, Brazil, Colombia (up another 11%...natch) Mexico and then Peru, which is a special case in itself as it was Peru in 2009 that went around asking the other Latam countries to reduce spending on arms during the Unasur conferences....like wow, who in the world would have thought Twobreakfasts was capable of hypocrisy, eh? But then we have three countries that actually did do something about defence expenditures and cut their spending in 2009, namely Chile, Argentina and ....wait...what's this? Venezuela dropped military spending by how much??? Wow, you'd never guess that Chávezlandia spent 25% less in 2009 from the biased shit you've been reading, would you?

Finally, some context. It's always good to have some context.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com.nyud.net:8090/_7Se7iswAanA/TAp7vLImGxI/AAAAAAAALuo/dgOJ7NwKrYM/s1600/mil4.gif

More:
http://incakolanews.blogspot.com/2010/06/military-spending-in-latin-america-2009.html

[naaman fletcher]

12. oh ok then

But I guess the rest is all true?

[Judi Lynn]

14. You know better than that. Get a hobby. We don't have time for stupid games. n/t

[naaman fletcher]

15. Stupid games like not addressing the subject at hand?

Stupid games like claiming to be interested in discussion and sharing information, when really one is interested in advocacy? Stupid games like ignoring the colombian reporter who shows up on the list, who could have provided a wealth of information on Colombia and on his reporting process and thoughts while claiming to know more than him because of your Kansas based internet skills?

[ChangoLoa]

16. Did you know the general who made the threat is in charge of the elections' Plan Republica?

Yesterday's marathon speech by Chavez was quite worrying.

After watching the military high commander threatening that the army would not accept an electoral victory for any other candidate than Chavez, Venezuelans saw their president ascending him to the highest possible rank in the armed forces and saying that if the opposition won in 2012, the new government would surely be overthrown very quickly.

Overthrown by "the people"

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_qWeDcyBle5A/S8SlUszGGdI/AAAAAAAApUo/Ff3muWE4B3w/s400/milicianos+chavistas.jpg

[naaman fletcher]

17. It's not worrying

to people who believe that Chavez has never ever made a single mistake, as Judi has stated previously.

[social_critic]

11. The end of Hugo Chavez?

I doubt it. When Fujimori went the autogolpe route he did quite well. Castro has been in power for over 50 years. The Kims have developed a hereditary dinasty. The Chinese have princelings who inherit high posts. I don't think Venezuela will be different. Chavez will stay. There will be brain drain. The economy will suffer, and it'll be deja vu all over again. I happen to think Raul Castro has some pretty decent ideas, Fidel is blocking him, but maybe Fidel will croak and then Raul can put some common sense in Hugo's head. I do know the current route spells disaster.

[naaman fletcher]

8. What does that have to do

With the subject at hand? You have previously stated that Chavez has not done a single thing that you have disagreed with. How about his decision to promote this general?

[social_critic]

13. Asteroid impact likely in the future

It has nothing to do, but the idea is to change the subject.

[bemildred]

18. OAS General Secretary Distorts Army Head’s Words on Venezuela’s 2012 Presidential Elections

Merida, November 12th, 2010 (Venezuelanalysis.com) – Comments by Major General Henry Rangel, head of strategic operations of the National Bolivarian Armed Forces (FANB), on possible reactions by the people and the army following the 2012 presidential elections have been “distorted” by the international and national media as well as by Organisation of American States (OAS) General Secretary Jose Insulza, president Hugo Chavez said on Thursday.

Rangel gave an interview to the national private newspaper Ultimas Noticias, which was published on 7 November. He said, “The National Armed Forces doesn’t have half loyalties, but complete ones towards the people... we’re married to the project of this country”.

Ultimas Noticias, paraphrasing Rangel’s words, said that he felt that under a hypothetical government of the opposition in 2012 that tried to, “dismantle the military sector, there would be a reaction by the army and the people, who would feel that something had been taken from them”.

“For many , there are some military leaders that aren’t convenient for them and that they have to be gotten rid of,” Rangel said in the interview.

http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/5781

[bemildred]

19. Chavez Promotes Venezuela General Criticized for Threat Against Opposition

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez promoted a general criticized for vowing not to cooperate with opposition leaders should they take power after 2012 elections, raising tensions in the run-up toward the vote.

Henry Rangel Silva will take over as General-in-Chief, Chavez said last night on state television. The military won’t tolerate an opposition government because it would try to “sell” the country, the general said in a Nov. 8 interview published in Ultimas Noticias.

“The imperialist oligarchs will never have an Armed Forces subordinated in the shadows to their gross interests,” Chavez said yesterday in announcing the appointment.

The promotion coincides with the opposition’s rising popularity amid soaring inflation, rising crime and a shrinking economy. Chavez lost his two-thirds majority in the National Assembly in September and will seek a third six-year term in 2012 that would allow him to rule until 2019.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-12/chavez-promotes-venezuela-general-criticized-for-threat-against-opposition.html