Chávez determined to conquer Venezuelan middle class

[ChangoLoa]

President Hugo Chávez is determined to conquer Venezuelan middle class, and "all those social strata that have no reason to be enemies of the revolution," he stated on Monday in the award presentation of the Liberator Award to Critical Thought, held at the Ríos Reina auditorium, Teresa Carreño Theater.

Chávez said that the next two years will be crucial to the maintenance and strengthening of his country model. "They are going to be tough (the next two years) because the Yankee empire, its international allies" and also its national allies will do everything they can to overthrow him, he said. "I'm not saying that a coup-d'état is impossible here, I'm just saying that our counterattack is foreseen. Blow against blow," he added.

Moreover, Chávez called to the unity of all "the patriotic, nationalist and conscious currents." And he asked his followers to go ahead and conquer the middle class. "We must go deeper with these popular sectors, to hear those who are disappointed and understand criticism and self-criticism," he recommended.


http://english.eluniversal.com/2010/11/16/en_pol_art_chavez-determined-to_16A4737811.shtml

[Mika]

1. Chavez said no such thing in the article you posted.

Check the quotation marks. Whoever wrote that garbage said it, not President Chavez.


Unbelievable as it might be, el universal is getting even sloppier.

---

[bemildred]

2. One sees little else.

Mis-quotation and mis-attribution are the norm. That is why I ignore most postings from El Urinal. Makes me feel not quite so bad about the mainstream English press here. And it is not sloppy, it is intentional.

[Bacchus39]

3. well, here is the Spanish version.

I agree Chavez didn't say it in English.


http://www.eluniversal.com/2010/11/15/pol_ava_chavez-se-propone-co_15A4734651.shtml

[ChangoLoa]

7. "Esa clase media tenemos que ir por ella, todos"

I've noticed that you speak Spanish, Bacchus. I have a question, maybe you can help me out.

If you wanted to paraphrase this sentence:
"Esa clase media tenemos que ir por ella, todos"

Would you write something like this:
"he asked his followers to go ahead and conquer the middle class"

Thanks.

[Bacchus39]

9. yes, absolutely.

it appears someone is confused by the meaning of conquistar.

"Esa clase media tenemos que ir por ella, todos"

perhaps a more precise translation would be "That middle class, we all have to win them over" or ".....we all have to go after them" this would be in the sense of "conquer their hearts (or minds)".


with that being said in English, "conquer" is more associated with defeating or vanquishing an opponent. That is obviously NOT what was being conveyed by Chavez or meant by the writers of the article. Perhaps our friend is confused by the different meanings of conquer, and in Spanish I assume it has different meanings as well. A man can "conquistar" a woman, meaning he won her over.

[Billy Burnett]

11. It appears to me that Mika is commenting on the english article posted in the OP.

Not the Spanish article you posted the link to.

Just sayin'. :shrug:


Cheers

[ChangoLoa]

14. So that was it.. "conquer"

In Spanish, conquistar and vencer/ derrotar are not synonyms. In a literal sense, it means to annex a territory or a geographical position. Nothing more. In a figurative sense, it's as you said.

Now, how can anyone understand that Chavez wants to build some consensus around him by "defeating" the middle class puzzles me but... eh... at least I understand the reason for the acid reaction.

Thanks again!

[ChangoLoa]

4. How do you know he didn't say it? Please share your sources with the rest of us.

Precisely, which quotes are you referring to?

[Mika]

5. I see that reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.

Here. I'll help you figure it out....

Go back to the article you posted. That is what I am referring to. Its the lack of quotes around the - And he asked his followers to go ahead and conquer the middle class. - part.
:dunce:

You ask me to prove a negative? About what someone didn't say?

Gawd, you gotta love the whole "some people say...." form of RW reporting.
Now you've moved your virtual-and-constantly-shifting goal posts to what some people didn't say? Where would one find such documentation? El Unsaid Universal?
No need for such a publication. That's what quotations help us delineate.

:rofl:

---

[ChangoLoa]

6. Not to prove a negative...

I understood from your post that you were saying that one of the quotes wasn't true. Sorry but, for me and my limitations, your post wasn't very clear.

But you're right about my "reading comprehension". I learned English in my school when I was a kid and I have never lived in an English-speaking country.

[Bacchus39]

8. yep, same thing here. there is no specification of what he considers untrue

don't worry about it though. He only believes things confirmed by the government are true. That's what the "some people say" arguement is.

[Bacchus39]

16. if it doesn't have quotes then the article is not attributing that to Chavez's statements

it seems pretty clear to me. Social Critic summarized the overall meaning which he correctly stated is the bottomline. to paraphrase, Chavez is looking to get the support of the middle class.

El Universal's English section provides a valuable service to those who do not speak Spanish. I have noticed that their translations are likely program based translations with some possible editing from their translator. they are obviously not written in English originally, or they are a word for word translation that loses some overall context and precision when translated from Spanish to English. still, it should be appreciated even for those who don't speak Spanish who cannot accurately interpret the original Spanish version and therefore cannot understand the context and more precise original.

nonetheless, saying Chavez didn't say something NOT in quotes is at best simply stating the obvious.

[Bacchus39]

10. gotta love it. its the part NOT in quotes he is talking about

although in his first response he says to check the quotes.

[Billy Burnett]

12. Right. Check the quotes is 100% accurate.

The OP title, and the sentence in question, is not what Chavez said.

How can you tell that from reading the OP article? By checking the language within the quotes.


Maybe some of the snarkiness around here is actually language interpretation based misunderstanding?
:shrug:



Cheers

[ChangoLoa]

15. Language interpretation based misunderstanding + intense prejudice

With a zest of rancid scorn...

A terrible mix!

Cheers

[Mika]

17. Speak for yourself and your minions.

No other comment on your puerile post. :thumbsdown:

---

[ChangoLoa]

18. Myself and my minions??

:spray:
Come on...
I haven't treated you with scorn, Mika. Why would I?


Actually, you insult me while I haven't said anything wrong to you and then you get upset and insult me again.
How particular.


Cada cabeza es un mundo!

[spanza]

19. So all in all, you got it all wrong in the first place.

And then you went to entrench yourself into sarcasm and insult. But the funniest part is that after all that, you dare say the word "puerile".

:+

[Mika]

20. Actually, no.

Seems like you have a similar problem w/reading.

There is no such quote of Chavez in the OP article. That was my point in my reply.

Even Bacchus 39 agrees with me on this obvious point, in this very thread.

Another Spanish language article was posted later, but that is not the article in the OP that I was commenting on.

Sorry that it is too hard for you to follow.

---

[spanza]

21. Actually, it's obvious

that Bacchus was gently making fun of you.

Don't be ridiculous

[Mika]

22. So, you're saying that the quote IS in the OP article?

OK. :eyes:

Even Bacchus can read and agree that it isn't in the OP article that I was replying to.


Bye bye

---

[social_critic]

13. Bottom Line Analysis

The words tell us he's worried about his lack of popularity with the middle class. Thus the emphasis on gaining their hearts and minds. This is going to be difficult unless the government does something serious about corruption, crime, inflation, and other problems which they have neglected or glossed over. But these problems are incredibly serious, and they impact the lower middle class and the poor as well, so this has to be something that goes beyond words and solves the problems for the majority - and this includes the poor and the lower middle class.

I know many contributors here try to change the subject or argue semantics, but the bottom line is things aren't working out in Venezuela, the government knows it, and they realize they need to do something about it. The problem as I see it is the sheer number of corrupt officials and criminals prowling Venezuelan society.

The best solution for Venezuela would be for Chavez to get his act together, fire a bunch of people, get rid of the corruption and crime, stop screwing with the economy to drive inflation at 30 %, and win the darned elections. But I don't see this happening. And all of you who sit on the sidelines and try to change the subject, and help cover up the problems, aren't doing anybody any favors.