How many people realize that ARRA and TARP are two entirely different bills?

[Zynx]

I have seen a lot of people confuse the two and I don't understand the confusion that occurs with supposedly informed people. TARP was passed in October of 2008 with $700 billion to recapitalize banks. It has been used for some other purposes but that is the main thrust of it.

ARRA was passed in February of 2009 and has nothing to do with banks. Rather it is predominantly a spending bill with about a third going to tax cuts including a broad based tax cut that was anything but supply-side. Most of the spending went to Medicaid, education, state fiscal stabilization, and infrastructure. The only institutions "bailed out" by ARRA were state governments (over $20 billion in general stabilization) and school districts (over $100 billion, though much of this was offset by state cuts). This was by any definition a stimulus bill that was left-of-center that mainly went to protect social spending and advance a progressive economic agenda through enhanced unemployment benefits, a more robust EITC, greater levels of Medicaid coverage, and investments in infrastructure and green energy.

I literally do not understand why people conflate the two. It is ill-informed at best and dishonest at worst.

[OhioBlue]

1. Thank you! I have been wondering the same thing

I scratch my head at some comments.

[Zynx]

2. The same people who yell and scream about "policy" seem to know precious little about it.

How anyone paying even 1% of the attention I have been paying could confuse the two is beyond me. That is like confusing Jupiter with Mars. It doesn't make sense.

[dkf]

3. Does this have to do with accusing Obama of bailing out the banks?

I'm lost.

[Zynx]

4. No. It has to do with the fact that people seem to think that the stimulus was the bank bailout.

They are not the same thing and in truth more of TARP has been used for stimulus than the other way around.

[dkf]

5. Hmm, haven't seen any of those lately.

Must not be pulling up those threads.

[Zynx]

7. It's against forum policy to name names, but they are out there.

Peruse the threads related to the economy and you will see it fairly often.

[dkf]

10. Found it.

And your post.

[Zynx]

12. If you look around some more, you will see quite a few more I assure you.

I have seen this literally probably 200 times in just the last couple months.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Indirectly.

In that a lot of people attacking the president over bailing out the banks have no fucking clue what they're talking about and don't know anything about the stimulus.

[kirby]

6. There are legitimate reasons to be upset though...

Over 1/3 of the ARRA was tax cuts which arguably did not stimulate the economy with jobs. I believe it was added to appease the Republicans--the same Republicans who voted against the ARRA (every single one of them).

[Zynx]

9. Three Republicans did vote for it (Snow, Collins, and Specter).

We needed them at the time because we only had 59 seats. Also, those tax cuts were not of the Republican variety. They were progressive with those with lower incomes getting a greater percentage benefit.

[rwheeler31]

8. I am sorry they tell you every day

we do not know but we believe. They have been doing this crap for years.

[Zynx]

11. Can you clarify what you said?

I did not understand this.

[rwheeler31]

13. How did they sell The Iraq war?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. Ask Bush.

He's the guy that didn't pass ARRA.

[HughMoran]

14. I haven't seen them conflated, but I don't doubt that they have been

TARP = bailout of financial

ARRA = stimulus - I benefited from Cobra subsidy

[doc03]

15. The source of the misinformation comes from what

the Republicans like to call the "Liberal Media"

[doc03]

16. Faux News and Republicans have managed to create the

Teabagger movement mostly in protest of the TARP Wall Street bailout which favored Republicans. Yet their anger has been directed to the Democrats that passed the ARRA that benefited the Teabaggers themselves, the Teabagges are mostly just middle class people out there with teabags on their hats not Wall Street bankers. I don't hear your average Teabagger for the most part bitching about unemployment extensions, the HCTC, the tax cuts or their $250 SS check. They don't bitch about the road that being paved, they bitch about the money being spent on signs labeling it a ARRA project, because they don't want people knowing who was responsible for the project. It is just mind boggling to me the power of the Faux news propaganda and the failure of the rest of the MSN to point out the hypocrisy.:banghead:

[SpartanDem]

20. It's just not the Fox News crowd

even those on our side of the political specturm make this mistake far too often

[blueworld]

17. Because the media doesn't understand the difference - there are TAA benefits as well

One of the "enhanced" unemployment benefits is for laid-off workers who lost their jobs because of foreign competition - for example 99% of the auto supplier/mfrs workers since China now has the work. TAA = "Trade Act Adjustment", an old program which Prez. Obama significantly enhanced this year.

If your company qualifies under the new TAA criteria, all the laid-off workers get benefits HOWEVER, those over 50 who are re-employed at a much lower salary can get up to $20K over 2 years in this wage subsidy. Here's a link for those who may not be aware:

http://www.doleta.gov/tradeact/

If you believe your company was affected by foreign competition, file a TAA petition & good luck to all.

[TwilightGardener]

18. Good clarification, thank you.

[stevenleser]

19. Not just here but in the national political cable show world.

... not that I have any specific instances or channels in mind...

;-)

[Zynx]

21. I know that such unimpeachable channels such as CNBC and Fox wouldn't dare.

It must be some non-news channel like Animal Planet.

[mkultra]

22. this and the $3 trillion dollar claim

are both attempts to create disruption.

[Zynx]

23. I literally don't know where that one comes from.

[mkultra]

24. that and the $11 trillion claim are rw talking points

[Zynx]

30. That one is the biggest lie of all.

The guarantees issued have barely been utilized at all. People count the guarantees like we spent that money. We had to spend very little of that portion.

[mkultra]

32. true, and the they send in their internet thug team

to spread these memes even here at DU

[Starbucks Anarchist]

25. I tried explaining that to an irrational poster once, but it fell on deaf ears:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6883524&mesg_id=6885466

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6883524&mesg_id=6885665

[Romulox]

26. What about the bailouts extended by the Fed? Odd to leave those out!

:shrug:

[Zynx]

29. Those have nothing to do with this conversation.

Those are not legislative actions and are beyond the control of Congress or the President. You are really trying to cloud the issue and I think I should ask why.

[Romulox]

31. LOL, of course they don't. They're completely and utterly irrelevant

(so long as one defines "irrelevant" as "inconvenient to my argument". :hi: )

Those are not legislative actions and are beyond the control of Congress or the President.

Gimme a break. This is a policy enacted by a man hand picked by President Obama to enact just these policies and who has been confirmed by the Senate. "Cloud the issue" indeed! :silly:

[Zynx]

33. My argument was simple. ARRA has no bailout money except for state governments.

That was the argument. The $787 billion stimulus has no financial institution bailouts in it at all. In fact, it is one of the most progressive economic actions in history. You decided to bastardize it for some strange reason.

[Romulox]

34. I thought the OP was about (inappropriate?) conflation of the various bailouts?

"ARRA has no bailout money except for state governments."

OK. But you know what does have bailout money? The multitrillion dollar banskter bailouts. (I know, I know: irrelevant!) :hi:

"You decided to bastardize it for some strange reason."

"Bastardize it"???

What in god's name does "bastardize it" mean in this context? What is "it" in the first place? :silly: :shrug:

[RepublicanElephant]

28. k&r nt