"if somebody's father says his son is an extremist, the son should be immediately on a list"...

[zulchzulu]

F&cking Joe Lieberman on George StayOnTopOfThis's show said that chilling statement, which is right out of Orwell's book "1984".

I fully expect him to offer legislation where you can get a reward if you turn your neighbor in. Turn in a family and get a pony.

Obviously, when Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's dad alerted US authorities in Nigeria about his nutty son, a case should be made and investigation should continue to see if it pans out.

But to just give accusations such power is certainly a slippery slope. I fear a trend that will make McCarthyism look like a puppy show is coming even if we aren't actually attacked, as Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's failed attempt was an attempt, not a successful strike.

[hlthe2b]

1. He is as detestable and self-serving a man as was ever born

The one thing that makes him worse than Limbaugh and Beck and that whole ilck is that Lieberman portrays himself as a pious religious man. Limbaugh and the rest may pander to the fundies, but I don't know that they personally claim to be so pious. That bumbs Lieberman's depravity up a notch, IMO.

[JohnnyLib2]

2. This old family counselor has probably turned pale while reading that statement.

I'll follow up on the context but WOW, what a slippery slope that one is, as you stated.





:scared: :kick:

[Ohiodemoc]

3. The man told his father "this is the last contact we will ever had"

Troubling. It would raise a big red flag if I were in charge of evaluating this man's danger, given the countries he had visited.

[donco6]

4. Where is all of this going to end up, really?

Are we heading for a Stasi-controlled state? Are we already there?

[ret5hd]

20. Measured in bytes, what do you figure the Stasi's data per person average was?

Today, with Carnivore, HSA, TIA, FBI, and other sundry efforts, what do you figure our comparable "data load" is.

I don't know either.

[boppers]

34. Oh, I can answer that (based on knowledge), actually.

With the US, and current technology, depending on the individual, it's a rotated load of 50-100Mb for the average nobody, with Gb and TB loads for high value targets and locations. Most of it gets thrown out, as nobody cares about the phone calls or groceries or loan payments or emails you had 10 years ago. On the more extreme ends, there are >20 Gb/s monitoring abilities in things like nuclear weapons facilities, which can be a huge footprint.

The Stasi had *much* more limited technology, keeping them down to 1-3 MB per person (depending on how you count it, paper scans are horribly inefficient to store, emails are tiny in comparison).

Put another way, however:
How many documents about you did the Stasi have before google?
After google?

For my name I found 40,400 documents in google.
For a nickname I found 7,950 more documents.
For another (more generic) nickname I found 702,000 documents.

[CK_John]

5. What if the father was the radical or just a nut who is pissed the son hadn't called often enough?

[goclark]

12. That's my question - what if a jealous wife

called in to say that her husband was going should not be trusted on a plane.


I believe the brave father. He did his best to keep us safe but the buck stops at our Airplane Security System.

[ret5hd]

18. oops, wrong place

[JaneQPublic]

30. "Hello, Homeland Security? I'd like to report my son... Glenn Beck." (nt)

[stray cat]

6. How badly injured are you if your name is on a list requiring a security check?

and what if the son had sent a note telling his family not to contact him he had gone to Yeman.

[TheBigotBasher]

7. How about if you are wrongly put on a no fly list?

Like Yousuf Islam (Cat Stevens)or the Marine reservist Staff Sgt. Daniel Brown.

It is a stupid and arbitrary list that lacks decent intelligence.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/6/152311/510

[polmaven]

11. Or Ted Kennedy!

Back in late 2001 (or maybe in early 2002) Ted actually had to be cleared by Federal officials because his name was on a no-fly list.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

24. Really? Gee, I wonder how THAT happened?

:eyes:

[PSzymeczek]

26. Or Edward Moore Kennedy.

He was on a no-fly list , as well.

[eShirl]

8. Someone remind me again why we used to be told the Soviet Union was bad?

[dkf]

9. Well who else do we expect will notice when someone is crossing these lines?

All these killers leave clues as to their instability. Family is best positioned to pick it up.

[Oregone]

10. What if someone says their ex-wife in an extremist?

Hey, this terrorist list could become a lot of fun

[DrToast]

13. Or their Senator!

[treestar]

14. Actually that should require a higher level before letting it mean something

Especially from fathers in very patriarchal cultures, like Nigeria.

They could just be trying to control their son's life.

[LovinLife]

15. Ummmmmmmm, I agree w/ this. I'm shocked u don't. Its acqusations from his father. Not some random

person. He should go on the no fly list until things are sorted out. Some kind of investigation should take place to see how long he should stay on the list and if he's a serious threat. This guy's father went to an embassy and told them about his son, he should've went on the no fly list after that.

[zulchzulu]

22. An accusation that's uninvestigated should put a person on a No-Fly list?

Can I buy you a copy of Orwell's book "1984"? It's on me.

:crazy:

[LovinLife]

32. U put him on the list and then u investigate it. If he's clean, take him off the list. This seems

rational to me. Even Jon Stewart was perplexed that the guys father raising a red flag didn't attract more attention from different intel agencies.

[Parker CA]

16. So the enemy retaliates by calling in hundreds of thousands of names of "extremist sons" and ruins

any ability for the US to track anything. Brilliant, Joe, just brilliant. Next, we'll have to go back to looking for people not on the list, since the list will be compiled of completely bogus information.

[AwakeAtLast]

17. I heard the exact same thing on Face the Nation this morning

Can't remember who said it though...

[high density]

19. Let's report Joe Lieberman, Collins, and that ass George Will

I think they are all extremists.

[sakabatou]

21. Why doesn't he just go Republican

that way people know his true colors.

[jenmito]

23. Because then he'll just be one of THEM. He won't get the attention he gets now

because he won't have any leverage.

[Odin2005]

25. I thought I herd the sound of thugs in jackboots marching when I read that.

:puke:

[zulchzulu]

28. Exactly n/t

[jberryhill]

27. Oh there are people here at DU who think it should work that way /nt

[vaberella]

31. Yes there are. Some believe in torture too. Wow. n/t

[JaneQPublic]

29. So, if you're a pissed-off neighbor, ex-spouse, or disgruntled employee...

...you can call in a name and get back at the person you have a grudge against?

[LovinLife]

33. If that person wants to face jail for lying, then by all means. But this isn't a bad thing IMO.

Maybe you all have a problem w/ the person that said it. I think Lieberman is scum too, but this makes sense.