FACTS MATTER- President Obama has kept 90 promises and only broken 11

[NJmaverick]

I am tired of hearing the utterly untrue claim that Obama has broken all his promises.


http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/

[grytpype]

1. It's a lot easier to scream and cry than it is to govern.

[impik]

2. Facts don't matter. Stop with the nonsense...

[DevonRex]

3. And now we continue with the regularly scheduled grumbling.

:hi: NJM!

[dipsydoodle]

4. Weird statement of comparison for anyone.

Breaking a single promise is breach of trust.

[NJmaverick]

6. What actually wierd is that you thought that anyone is capable of keeping the 500+ promises

attributed to Obama. If you thought anyone that can't keep 500+ promises is untrustworthy, then the entire world is untrustworthy.:eyes:

[dipsydoodle]

11. The entire world

wasn't running for President of the USA.

Trust is trust which like the soul once departed never returns.

[NJmaverick]

13. Name just ONE politiician that has kept EVERY SINGLE PROMISE

[dipsydoodle]

20. The specific subject here is Obama

and not politicians in general.

[MUAD_DIB]

29. It is actually a fair question.

[katandmoon]

40. I don't think it is. It's simply a diversionary tactic.

[NJmaverick]

48. Wrong, it is a very good question that puts your and the other poster's

claims of Obama being a liar, into it's proper context. Something you don't want to be done.

[katandmoon]

57. Unlike you, I have no problem not just admitting, but screaming from the rooftops, that ALL

politicians are fucking liars to some degree or other, including every single one I've voted for as well, and that includes Obama. It is extremely liberating to be able to do so, because you no longer have to twist yourself into knots while unsuccessfully trying to change the subject away from their obvious lies. It's a huge relief to give them the exact amount of consideration they make it obvious that they've given you once they get your vote that launnches them into the financially-independent for all time stratosphere -- i.e. NONE.

[NJmaverick]

72. No question you are doing a lot a "screaming"

:eyes:

[Robb]

184. Your argument in this regard would carry more weight

...had you ever supported this president.

[goclark]

153. Fair question ~ I can't think of one

In fact, Obama has kept more than most considering the evil doers in this country

[ZombieHorde]

69. I think the question is fair because the question addresses the nature of the job.

Though the question would be even better if it only addressed the job of POTUS, as opposed to politicians in general.

[Orsino]

193. To whom were you compraing the president, then?

Since you've implicitly accepted the fact that most politicians are unable or unwilling to keep all their promises, let's tackle the question: how good is this president at keeping campaign promises?

[dipsydoodle]

195. You need to read what had gone before

The OP refered specically to Obama and he, not me ,then tried to change the subject.

[Orsino]

196. Is the subject not an evaluation of how well Obama has kept campaign promises?

Why should we not compare this president to every other one, or to every other American politician?

[dipsydoodle]

207. Because what you've written is also changing the subject

by attempting to draw comparisons. Comparisons were not the subject of the original OP. You wanna start a fresh OP then feel free. Otherwise go away.

[Orsino]

208. Hardly.

When the OP compares the number of kept vs. broken promises, the very next logical question is: how do these numbers compare with other presidents or politicians? Context is all.

We need to be able to face up to the answers, too, no matter how uncomfortable they make us.

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mkultra]

194. good point, reasonable expectations are important.

[stray cat]

7. Have you ever lied or not carried through on a promise or changed your mind?

Did you ever get that project completed a day later than it was due - or reschedule a date or event? If so does that single event or rescheduling make you an unreliable liar.

Actually I don't trust someone who carries through on a stupid idea even after he knows its stupid.

[NJmaverick]

14. Don't forget not being able to deliever on things out of one's control

[mrcheerful]

23. Well to be honest I never promise anyone anything as life is to unpredictable

that I find making promises a waste of time and makes one seem to be a lier. The SO learned a long time ago not to ask me if her pants make her butt look big, but joking aside I would rather leave a question unanswered then try to insert a lie to cover up what I mean or thought. I find keeping your lies straight a waste of time, hell I have enough trouble remembering if I put my pants on before walking out of the house, don't ask, long story and the neighbors are still talking about it.

[jgraz]

113. "I don't trust someone who carries through on a stupid idea even after he knows its stupid."

You mean like escalating Afghanistan? :shrug:

[Exultant Democracy]

5. If you put him on a curve with Bush then Obama is a D+ at best. Bush delivered

his base even more then they could have ever imagined. While Obama leaves his base cold.

[90-percent]

8. Post #5 NAILS IT!

Post #5 NAILS IT!

-jim

[NJmaverick]

12. How so exactly? How is a 9-1 margin a D+? Please

explain all that Bush delivered and failed to deliver. Don't forget the failure to drill ANWAR, ban abortion, privatize SS among his many failed deliverables.

[Milo_Bloom]

109. The "promises kept" aren't really what they appear to be.

For example, "create a credit card bill of rights"

So, let me get this straight.. we are supposed to count the horror of a credit card bill, which didn't even remotely address the PROBLEM as "keeping a promise"????????????

[NJmaverick]

9. Really? Was abortion banned? Did they drill in ANWAR? Did they privatize SS?

You need to do a better and more thorough analysis of the facts, in my opinion

[Texastornado]

31. Those are only three

One would have to compile a huge list of promises in order to reach an informed conclusion.

[Hansel]

36. Or just have been awake for the past 9 years.

[Texastornado]

37. No Being awake does not replace the gathering of facts n/t

[Hansel]

42. Gather away. nt

[NJmaverick]

50. That's 3 more than you have listed

[Hansel]

34. Was he a bipartisan compassionate conservative? Was he the education president?

Did he not torture? Did he not spy on law abiding Americans? Did he do everything he could to keep us safe from terrorism?

[StarfarerBill]

43. Two unilateral wars and trillions of dollars in tax cuts and contractor profits.

A pretty good haul, I'd say.

Bush's real base was the corporate Mob, and to them he delivered in spades.

Obama's non-corporate base originally was a wide range, from progressives on the left to Democratic conservatives on the right. Thus far, only the right end of that spectrum has been delivered to.

In your opinion, will the left side of Obama's base ever see anything substantive given for their support and needs?

[jgraz]

112. Bush never promised to do any of those things.

If he had, he would have lost both elections. Oh wait... he DID lose both elections.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

189. How about prayer in public schools?

What about pulling out of the United Nations?
What about enacting "loser pays" tort reform?
How about enacting a "flat tax?"
How about making English the Official Language of the United States?
What about abolishing the Department of Education?
What about abolishing the Department of Energy?
What about abolishing the Environmental Protection Agency?
How about repealing auto emissions and mileage standards?
How about repealing the Clean Air Act?
How about repealing the Clean Water Act?
How about replealing the Engandered Species Act?

...and those are some of the less-looney ideas they've had in recent years.

[stray cat]

10. That may just show Bush's base is smarter than the progressive base

and willing to wait for the right opportunity. They voted GOP for a long time before they got W - they know how to wait and plan unlike progressives.

[NJmaverick]

15. I think it's a matter of discipline that helps the righties

[JamesA1102]

30. Exactly right! nt

[Kaleva]

21. SS didn't go private. Still can't drill in ANWR.

Republicans lost control of Congress in 2006.

[Exultant Democracy]

39. Are you pretending that for the vast majority of his tenure (even after he last 2006) that Bush

wasn't the rights wet dream? Are you kidding me he started a HOLY WAR he got off a jet pale with a cod piece! He allowed doctors moral wavers over abortion, and put through a his insane tax cut. At all times he looks like a Leader and even without a super majority in congress he was able to bend them to his will over and over again like the Military Commissions act of 2006.


In short; Bush= rights wet dream, Obama= left's left cold

[Kaleva]

52. Bush's approval amongst conservatives in early'06 was 54%.

That's pretty darn low considering he was supposed to be their wet dream.

"May 26, 2006

Among all conservatives -- regardless of party affiliation -- Bush's approval rating is currently 54%."

http://seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Politics/6-05-26-SeniorCitizenApproval.htm

Obama's current approval among all liberals--regardless of party affiliation----is about 79%. It's 89% amongst liberal Democrats.

[katandmoon]

16. Funny how many of those promises were actually "kept" by Congress passing bills. So to recap:

If Congress passes a bill that lets Obama keep one of his many promises, then Obama gets the credit for it.

BUT.

If Congress fails to pass a bill that lets Obama keep one of his many promises, then it's Congress's fault.

[NJmaverick]

17. Did you think the President made the laws all by himself?

:shrug:

[katandmoon]

25. This is not the issue here.

[spoony]

133. Did you? You routinely give him credit for things he didn't do

which the Hill did.

[Robb]

185. This is routine on both sides, actually.

Obama is criticized for "not showing leadership" when Congress does not pass bills. DADT being one DU example.

[BklnDem75]

22. I was thinking the exact same thing.

It really is funny when Congress either fails or waters down a bill, it's all Obama's fault. When they pass a good bill, it's all Congress. Obama had nothing to do with it. Weird huh?

[katandmoon]

24. But this is about OBAMA keeping promises, not about congress keeping promises.

[BklnDem75]

44. This isn't a relationship

Campaign promises aren't followed to the letter. Politics is the art of compromise, which means you're aiming to get most of what you want. You're either gonna succeed or fail to get what you're aiming for. 79 out of 90 campaign promises is pretty damn impressive. Calling the failures lies makes you more of a 'glass is not quite full' kind of person.

[katandmoon]

144. Once again -- my point IS, that Obama himself had little to do with the fulfillment of many of these

[AndyA]

18. Oh, well then that makes it OK to lie.

Because most of the time, he doesn't. Right? :shrug:

Bullshit. I guess it depends on which side of those lies you are. A broken promise is a lie. If the President of the United States lies, he is not trustworthy.

You should have gotten that message loud and clear with Bush.

[NJmaverick]

19. So unless he keep over 500+ promises he is a liar in your book

Well that is certainly an unreasonable position to stake out.


Name ONE (just one) politician that ever kept every single promise he or she made?


Oh and your bush comparison sort of betrays your anti-Obama biases that make your comments less than credible.

[donheld]

26. He told a bald faced lie when he said he didn't campaign on the public option

No way around it he lied!

[NJmaverick]

45. Actually your claim has been proven false

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/dec/23/barack-obama/public-option-obama-platform/

[freddie mertz]

62. Do you even read your own Links? They rate him "Barely True"...

From YOUR LINK:


Obama's new claim is, "I didn't campaign on a public option." We will stipulate that it was not a particularly prominent part of his overall platform for health care. But we find that the public option was part of Obama's campaign materials, and that counts. So we rate his statement Barely True.

[jgraz]

99. "Barely True". Do we need any more evidence that Politi"fact" is giving Obama a pass?

Here's another word for "barely true": LIE.

[donheld]

160. He lied! No way around it.

Excuse it all you like he still lied.

[BklnDem75]

47. He didn't campaign on the public option

He campaigned on a health care plan that included a public option as one of the benefits. Nobody campaigns on the benefit of something broader. If you think mentioning it a few times is actually campaigning on it, you just lied to yourself.

[freddie mertz]

51. Have you seen Lawrence O'Donnell's refutation of this claim?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96U-7lILbXc

Not that it matters.

He promised a PO after the election, then actively worked to kill it.

[BklnDem75]

54. The link doesn't dispute what I said

It was mentioned, but he didn't campaign on the public option. Pointing out what he said after he became president has nothing to do with his statement.

[freddie mertz]

56. It was on his campaign website and he talked about it during the campaign.

It's all there in the clip.

And AFTER that, as prez, he spoke about it OFTEN, in terms of "must."

THEN he dialed it back, and that is when he got into the bind that apparently led him into the stupid "denial" statement.

He screwed up on that. I think we can agree.

[donheld]

161. He lied, and your excusing it.

[BklnDem75]

168. Get over yourself. nt

[AndyA]

135. How rich.

Defending Obama by stating it's UNREASONABLE to expect a politician to keep their promises. Your attitude shows how much you are part of the problem.

If you set the bar low enough, almost anyone can meet the standard.

I worked hard to get Obama elected based on those promises. Because of the efforts I and lots of others made, he's in office now. I did my part. It's time for him to keep his end of the deal. I'm still waiting on a lot of those promises to be kept. What is the limit to broken promises? 11? 100? 1,000?

Look in the mirror: you are the problem. Politicians must be held to a higher standard or this crap will just keep happening, and it will continue to take them decades to do anything that's actually helpful to the American people. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

27. People didn't vote for Obama on account of 90 promises, but on account of a handful critical ones

It is on the handful of critical promises that he has come up short way of the mark. Candidate Obama spoke of public option and against mandates. Candidate Obama spoke of restoring civil liberties. Candidate Obama spoke of jobs, jobs, jobs. Candidate Obama spoke of repealing DADT and DOMA. Candidate Obama spoke in support of Employee Free Choice Act, including card check.

Needless to say, not all issues and promises carry the same weight.

[jgraz]

100. Are you kidding? We were all counting on him to expand Senior Corps.

Yes, :sarcasm:

[donheld]

180. +100

[bread_and_roses]

214. Thank you, Indiana

exactly. Not to mention that the entire campaign was crafted to pose Obama as an agent of transformation from the disaster of the past eight years of Neo-Con/Lib, Free-Marketeer, Privitizing, Shock-and-Awe Imperialism. Look how that's working out for us. The utterly sickening thing is that he had the wind at his back at the inauguration, and could have taken such a different path with the people behind him.

[donheld]

28. Omitted from the 11 broken promises is ending DADT

What else is omitted?

[Texastornado]

33. In fairness to Obama, his presidency lasts 4 years

It's possible that he is committed to ending DADT in 2010 or 2011.

[donheld]

38. Yea he's committed to doing it someday

meanwhile men and women suffer for his stalling. Yes it's stalling. He could have issued
a order to stop the expulsions on Jan 20 2009 if he'd wanted to. Still we wait.

[NJmaverick]

46. Congress is planning on working on that issue in 2010

so it would seem you are more guilty of a false claim than the President

[freddie mertz]

64. I'm sure we should all hold our breath...

I hope I am wrong, but cowardice generally rules in election years.

[IndianaGreen]

65. Yep, with Joe Lieberman leading the charge!

Or have you forgotten that little debate of a couple months ago!

[donco6]

177. Unless that's part of next year's 11.

Ya never know.

[seeinfweggos]

147. so when did he break that promise? dadt

are you actually taking the position that any campaign promise he hasn't fulfuilled yet is broken? really? that is fucking amazing. what was he supposed to do the next three years if everything was wrapped up by now. dadt will bite the dust this year or next.

[jenmito]

32. K&R. What a shame that pointing out how many promises were kept vs. broken has only 2 net recs. n/t

[Texastornado]

35. Not mentioned: 29 promises are rated as "compromise"

Including those 29 gives you a better picture of the whole. Not saying a compromise is good or bad, but some people might find compromise to be unacceptable in certain cases.

[IndianaGreen]

41. Obama's mortgage foreclosure plan has been a dismal failure

yet this website has it as a success:

No. 15 Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/subjects/politifacts-top-promises/

I think a closer scrutiny of politifact is required.

If you look at what politifact rates as the 25 "top promises," according to their own criteria:

3 were kept
18 in the works
2 were compromised
1 is stalled
1 is broken

[NJmaverick]

87. That program is slow to get off the ground, it does not meet

any reasoned definition of a "dismal failure"

[IndianaGreen]

89. It certainly cannot be called a success, as politifact has done

I am sure that a closer inspection on other "successes" will lead to some caveats added to them.

[NJmaverick]

94. The program is in place and will happen, that puts it in the promises kept

catagory

[NJmaverick]

49. I noticed that you didn't mention the 240 in the works

[jgraz]

114. I noticed that you didn't mention the 66 that are "stalled" due to Obama's inaction.

We all have our little biases...

[Enrique]

136. an dozens are rated as "stalled"

including importing prescription drugs, which is clearly a broken promise.

It's a fabulous site, but you have to read the content, just looking at the numbers is absolutely meaningless.

[Hello_Kitty]

53. He only breaks his promises 12% of the time! eom

[NJmaverick]

75. Thow in the 240 promises in the works and your number is much too high

[jgraz]

81. Or throw in the 66 that are stalled (mostly through Obama's own inaction) and the number is too low.

And some, like http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/promise/71/allow-imported-prescription-drugs/">"Allow imported prescription drugs", just give him a free pass. The guy organized a filibuster in the Senate to prevent a member of his own party from introducing a drug re-importation amendment, and they mark it as "stalled".

Politi"fact", my ass.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ima_sinnic]

103. oh, so those of us who consider him at best a weasel worder are simply racists?

whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Simple thoughts for simple people.

[flyarm]

58. TYT: Tim Geithner Tried to Cover Up Money Going to Top Banks

TYT: Tim Geithner Tried to Cover Up Money Going to Top Banks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHODjoSb2ao&feature=player_embedded

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x421627

[cliffordu]

197. yawn.

[flyarm]

59. NYT: Obama Takes New Route to Opposing Parts of Laws

NYT: Obama Takes New Route to Opposing Parts of Laws

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7433794

[flyarm]

60. Geithner-led Federal Reserve Bank pressed AIG to Withhold Swap Info from Public

Geithner-led Federal Reserve Bank pressed AIG to Withhold Swap Info from Public

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBshsF-a-T4&feature=player_embedded


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x421404

[cliffordu]

198. *Cough* spam *cough*

Is he not keeping the President's promises???

[flyarm]

61. FACTS MATTER: Candidate Obama DID promise a Public Option (O'Donnell). Watch it for yourself:

FACTS MATTER: Candidate Obama DID promise a Public Option (O'Donnell). Watch it for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96U-7lILbXc

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x118680

[cliffordu]

So fucking what?

Shit happens, things change.

I wanted to play in the NFL, too but didn't have the speed.

Fucking purity cops need a hobby.

[cliffordu]

199. So fucking what?

Shit happens, things change.

I wanted to play in the NFL, too but didn't have the speed.

Fucking purity cops need a hobby.

[flyarm]

63. "No discrimination against pre-existing conditions" in health care bill could be out the window

"No discrimination against pre-existing conditions" in health care bill could be out the window http://www.correntewire.com/no_discrimination_against_p...

From the Nation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7434172

[flyarm]

66. Frank Rich: America MUST BE TOLD The Full Story-"The Other Plot To Wreck America"

Frank Rich: America MUST BE TOLD The Full Story-"The Other Plot To Wreck America"


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7431893

[cliffordu]

200. Obama didn't keep a couple of his promises..Is that the gist of the article??

[flyarm]

67. Scott Ritter: "There is no “war on terror” for America to fight"

Scott Ritter: "There is no “war on terror” for America to fight"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7431293

[flyarm]

68. White House Believes 'Liberal Angst' Over Healthcare Will Go Away

White House Believes 'Liberal Angst' Over Healthcare Will Go Away

Published on Sunday, January 10, 2010 by CommonDreams.org

White House Believes 'Liberal Angst' Over Healthcare Will Go Away

by Donna Smith

In an NPR story this week, White House aides and Communications Director Dan Pfeiffer summed it up: (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12... )

White House aides believe a lot of the liberal angst about health care will go away once the president actually signs a bill. And to the extent that the Democrats have a problem motivating their core voters, they've got time to fix it.

"We're not overly concerned about these things, first and foremost because there isn't an election tomorrow, not an election the next day," says Dan Pfeiffer, White House communications director.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x118397



i have one thing to say about this..think again..I as a union member ..will hold all these people accountable...forever...100%

[cliffordu]

201. Good luck with that.

[Ter]

70. Only 11 in a year?

He shouldn't be breaking any.

[Cheap_Trick]

71. Don't come in here and try to confuse us with facts, little man.

We don't cotton to that around here.

[jgraz]

73. Oh good. Cuz it's been 3 minutes since someone last posted a link to politifact.

:eyes:

Here's a hint, Junior: just because a site has the word "fact" in its name, that doesn't mean it contains nothing but facts. Learn how to think.

[NJmaverick]

74. LOL! Damn those pesky facts!

:evilgrin:

[jgraz]

78. Here's some facts for ya: start watching at the 4:55 mark

One month before the election:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM

And we are tired of watching as, year after year, candidates offer up detailed health care plans with great fanfare and promise, only to see them crushed under the weight of Washington politics and drug and insurance lobbying once the campaign is over.

That is not who we are. That is not who we have to be. Enough is enough! It is TIME FOR US TO CHANGE!

The first time I showed you this link, you ignored it. Care to man up and address it this time?

[KakistocracyHater]

215. the hardcore followers don't let facts influence them, they support Obama-.

Nothing will sway them. In a certaian sense, I guess it's good; but they show a lack of comprehending what operating on the leadership-level truly entails.

[freddie mertz]

79. If you actually read your link, you'd know that it doesn't always support your claims.

[NJmaverick]

83. Actually it does and any DUer can read it for themselves to confirm it

[freddie mertz]

85. I did. "Barely True" indeed. Very funny!

:yourock: :banghead:

[NJmaverick]

97. So how do you call a man a liar over a barely true statement????

[freddie mertz]

104. That is their very generous interpretation.

I call the statement that the prez made "untrue."

[greenbird]

139. Why do you think that being nasty to people

is necessary to have a political discussion? Can't your ideas stand alone, without the snark and demeaning tone?

[jgraz]

149. Welcome to Teh Internets. We use snark here.

Yes, my ideas can stand alone, but what fun would that be?

[hulka38]

76. HCR is huge not only for tens of millions of Americans but of the health of our economy

as well. To bring this enormous issue down to the level of one of 500+ issues is a disingenuous argument.

[frylock]

77. claimining that obama has broke all his promises is a false argument..

set up by his most ardent supporters.

[NJmaverick]

84. FALSE! I have seen that claim posted AT LEAST half a dozen different times

FACTS MATTER!

[jgraz]

86. Then you should have no problem posting a link to at least one.

FACTS MATTER! :eyes:

[NJmaverick]

88. Nice try, you know that action is against DU rules

All any DUer has to do is DU Google broken promises and Obama to see my facts are correct.

[jgraz]

98. It's not against DU rules to back up your claims

Though I'm sure you wish it were.

[freddie mertz]

105. I certainly do not make the claim, nor have I read it anywhere.

He has broken or not acted on a number of key promises.

That is not the same thing as saying he broke ALL of them, is it?

[NJmaverick]

122. You know the claim has been maded many times

you are being disingenuous to claim otherwise.

[freddie mertz]

124. Actually, I don't. It's hyperbolic either way.

[jgraz]

108. So I checked your claim, googling "broken promises" and "Obama". And guess what I found?

NO ONE claims that Obama has broken all his campaign promises. But I did hit a more than a few posts from you claiming that people are claiming that Obama has broken all his campaign promises.

I'd post the links, but someone said that was against DU rules. :evilgrin:

[NJmaverick]

123. Now that is simply untrue. Then again, I have seen you don't let facts get in your way.

[freddie mertz]

125. Maybe you should post them then. You made the claim.

Heck, you might even find one.

I'm too busy to bother right now.

[NJmaverick]

127. You are not going to bait me into breaking the rules or getting this thread locked

I know you like to hide the truth, but you are going to fail this time

[freddie mertz]

134. Then find something on another blog, maybe?

[jgraz]

126. Feel free to prove your claims. FACTS MATTER!

[NJmaverick]

129. Feel free to post you own thread proving your claims. You are not going to be hide these facts

by getting me to get this thread locked

[spoony]

131. I found the exact same thing.

NO ONE has said he's "broken all his promises"--the OP is entirely unfounded.

[Puglover]

141. Trust me it isn't against DU rules to post a link to back up a

claim. But it sounds good when you have spun yourself into a corner. :P

[jgraz]

148. We all know that.

NJ just has to preserve his own illusion that he has a shred of credibility left.

[OnyxCollie]

209. Rationalization.

Deference to power.

Attacks against others who question power.

Conventionalism.

Inequality. (The health bill reduces NJMaverick's costs, and that's all that matters. It's all about HIM. To hell with everybody else.)

Just a few of the common traits the Sycophant All-Stars share with conservatives.

[NJmaverick]

155. I tend to take what you say with a grain of salt

[jgraz]

163. Feel free to post a link to the rule against posting links

Or would that also be against the rules? :silly:

[Puglover]

188. I take that as a badge of honor.

Post a link and back up your post.

[silverweb]

82. Thank you.

:kick:

[Cha]

90. Hey, Thanks!

[dkf]

91. Nah he only breaks the promises everyone knows about!

He keeps the ones we don't care to take note of much less remember.

[NJmaverick]

95. Millions upon millions of people have been helped by the promises he has kept

I guess since you are not aware of any that don't directly benefit yourself you simply don't care about the 90 promises kept.

[SunsetDreams]

92. I'm rather unsure as to the reason for the Unrec's on this one, Can someone enlighten me?

[Balbus]

93. because breaking 11 promises in the first year is a shitty thing to be bragging about.

[SunsetDreams]

178. Balbus did you not see the positive of keeping 90 promises?

I don't think the OP was bragging about 11 broken promises.

I still fail to see a reason to unrec this thread.

[NJmaverick]

96. There are many DUers that have an agenda that is in conflict with the facts

so the truth is not all that popular.

[jgraz]

111. Politi"fact" has been debunked many times, but people keep posting it as if it means something.

Hint: it doesn't.

[NJmaverick]

117. That would be a false claim

but I am sure you find facts offered by PolitiFact to be quite annoying

[spoony]

151. Because it's based on a lie

The lie that people are saying Obama has broken all his promises. It's just clothes stuffed with straw.

[seeinfweggos]

101. probably why he is so popular with liberal democrats

and so frustrating for repubs and naderites

[NJmaverick]

102. yes it is

:hi:

[undeterred]

106. Very useful link.

Thank you.

[ima_sinnic]

107. he's a con artist, then--it's not quantity, but quality

I don't consider promises to "create a prison-to-work incentive program" or "open new consulates 'in the tough and hopeless corners of the world'" to be as critically important or worth fighting for as a "public option" in healthcare.

The fact that he gave lip service to such a vitally important and necessary component of "health care reform," said reform being a centerpiece of his entire campaign and supposed "efforts" at "change," and then disowned ever "campaigning" on it, just shows he's a weasel worder.

He can say things deftly without ever actually "promising" them.

That makes him a con artist, then, not a "liar."

He can exploit people hopes and dreams and then deny ever "promising" anything.
If that is satisfactory behavior in a slick politician to you, that's your problem.
Me, not so much. I simply won't believe his slick speeches anymore--words are cheap, action matters, and I've come to see he'll say anything people want to hear but cleverly couch it in ways he can disown later.

Oh, and please don't remind me again how poor powerless Obama "can't do anything" with Congress obstructing him. HE.DID.NOT.FIGHT.IN.THE.LEAST.WAY.FOR.A.PUBLIC.OPTION--therefore he is a goddam liar--he pretended to be for one, and he did say in clearly recorded words for the world to see and hear that he would not sign a bill without one. Was that not a "promise," or do you have some other "parsing" that allows you to write that off as some kind of "misunderstanding" or something?

[NJmaverick]

116. what you are trying to sell

has more of the earmarks of a "con"

[ima_sinnic]

120. please explain--I really do not follow your, um, "thinking"

what am I trying to "sell," and how does that negate anything in my post?

[NJmaverick]

121. There are many important promises amoung those 90, that have helped millions of people

just because none of them DIRECTLY benefited you, doesn't give you carte blanch to claim they were all meaningless.

[ima_sinnic]

130. oh, but one of the most pivotal ones in his efforts to gain our votes

and then our support after he was elected should be excused away?

where did I say ANY of his promises were "meaningless"? some important changes have been made, but suckering in the voters by giving the impression that he "wanted" a public option (and including the idea on his own website) in a matter of vital importance to the entire nation, then blatantly saying he would refuse to sign a bill without one, rank as first-class whoppers to me. They will not be forgiven, by me--and by how many other voters? only time will tell.

If he had not been able to deliver on consulates in forgotten corners of the world, I might scratch my head about it, but figure, no harm, no foul, maybe we'll get that the next time around. But I don't recall him using that a pivotal part of his campaign. Did people vote for him because they wanted more consulates?

[last1standing]

110. And think about all the women Jack the Ripper DIDN'T murder!

What an idiotic OP.

[NJmaverick]

115. Yes your comparison of Obama to Jack the Ripper is idiotic

one would be safe to say it's even beyond idiotic

[last1standing]

118. Any more beyond and it might become accurate.

Poor you and your sensitive eyes having to read mean things about the most powerful man in the world. How will you ever recover?

[NJmaverick]

119. and here I thought your first post couldn't be topped

:rofl:

[last1standing]

128. You must lack imagination.

There's no end to the criticism your hero deserves.

[SunsetDreams]

179. ah yes imagination is the key here.

[spoony]

132. It's a comparison of claims, not of people. nt

[freddie mertz]

138. NJ knows that. It's a tactic. We know what the goal is.

"You compared the president to Jack the Ripper!"

[NJmaverick]

142. I am waiting for the Hilter comparrisons, as it's only a matter of time

[freddie mertz]

154. I'm sure you'd be delighted.

[last1standing]

166. You just made it. Why do you hate Obama so much?

n/t

[Vattel]

162. Whoosh!

[Enrique]

137. and one of the promises kept is getting the puppy for his girls

and there are hundreds of promises called "compromises" or "stalled" which are worse to some people than the ones called "broken".

*edit: dozens, not hundreds.

[freddie mertz]

140. What if they had asked for a pony?

Then they would have REALLY been in for it!

[NJmaverick]

143. Yeah I guess puppies and ponies are on par with expanding SCHIP

:eyes:

[ima_sinnic]

146. that's exactly the point--promising a puppy is not a factor in an election

but that promise is included in the 90 as if it should be given equal weight as the "promise" of a public option.

somebody needs to analyze the list in terms of critical issues for voters. some promises were quite obscure and maybe mentioned in one or two speeches to certain interest groups. The ones used to gain votes in nationwide campaigning are the ones people will remember in 2012.

[freddie mertz]

156. Right! It amazes me that some folks can link to a source a 100 times...

But not take the time to actually READ the damned thing!

That's a very silly thing to do.

[NJmaverick]

157. I read all of it, as I need to have command of a great many facts

when having to debunk so much bad info.

[jgraz]

164. And when, exactly, do you plan on getting that?

We're waiting...

[HopeOverFear]

145. Gee, did I stumble onto Free Republic?

*checks URL*

nope.

[theothersnippywshrub]

150. What can you do about ignorant republicans? You can't have this thread without them. n/t

[spoony]

152. As wrong as the OP is, calling them a freeper isn't helpful.

lol.

[mstinamotorcity]

158. Keeping Promises

First this is not a bunch of eight year olds waiting for that shiny new bike on friday only to find out that dad's pay was short and the light bill was due. That is called disappointment.When any politician runs for office we vote with the intention that they are going to honor their campaign platform. The agenda this President has is a lot for some people to get used to. Capitol Hill is a place that has had corruption running in it deep as those caverns they stored that nuclear waste in.Our President has only been in office a little over eleven months and they want him to weed out the corruption that has been in the political game since the United States got its first settlers.I wish he could keep every single one that has come out of his mouth,but,reality tells me that he can't because of all the obstacles that are working against him. He will be in good standing with me every time the Senate and the House pass a bill that he can sign. Because despite contrary belief.when the Senate and House pass a bill and he can sign it then it is a promised fulfilled.Where our President can help us i know he will.But it is up to us to make sure that we have the right people in place to get a progressive agenda put forth.There are still some that many have assumed would not stand in our way because of the Democratic majority.You now see that is not so.We still have some major work to do on our own party on Capitol Hill,in order for the majority of our Presidents campaign promises can be met.If we could live with Reagan/Bush for twelve years,then live with Bush/Cheney eight years,I am willing to give this President a little more time to clean house.I don't expect change over night,but I do believe in change through legislation and knowledge.

[Arkana]

159. Presidents will break promises. It's a fact of life.

They're not going to get to do everything they say they'll do during the campaign--it's a casualty of trying to govern. Democratic majorities in the House and Senate mean jack shit when a bunch of Blue Dog pricks can jam up any legislation they want.

[rebel with a cause]

167. How can you keep all your promises

when members of your own party cannot agree what they want? Republicans followed W in step and did whatever his administration wanted and he still had to break the law and put things through with signing statements. The Democratic party don't do that. The Blue Dogs want it their way, the Moderates want it their way, the Liberals want it their way, and the progressive want it their way. By the time Obama deals with the Democrats he still has to deal with the repubs who say no to everything he proposes. Heavens sake, Obama would have to be a Messiah to keep his promises. :banghead:

[Land Shark]

171. Making a promise one can't keep unless a "messiah" as you say is another Big Lie. n/t

[rebel with a cause]

172. Sorry to whoever posted a reply to me

because you are invisible to me.

[Land Shark]

176. You must have lots of folks on ignore, and if that includes me, you're the only one ignoring me

that I know of. I have no idea what caused you to do that, if you did. Seeing as how you have to guess who it might be that's invisible, it clearly appears you have at least several people whose words you are avoiding. In my case, we've never had a "fight"

[Land Shark]

173. It's not where stymied that's concern but abandoning fight, denying promising, doing opposite...

in the interest of an honest debate, I'd say you're correct that where Blue dogs and repubs stymie an effort, that's not blameworthy, but as I read hundreds of threads here it is the giving up without a fight, the inaction, the denial of having made promises when he did (health care public option), and doing the opposite of what was promised that is the real issue or issues. (The merits or lack thereof of each of these is enough for several other threads, and thus not repeated here, and not meant to say that all of these categories are "proved" in my mind...)

[Vattel]

165. Wow,hgh praise indeed. lol

Nice straw man by the way. If anyone really is crazy enough to believe that Obama has broken all of his promises, I can sleep better tonight knowing that your post has set them straight?

[2 Much Tribulation]

169. And Tiger Woods only broke his promise about 11 times as well. Let's SAVE THE MARRIAGE!!! n/t

[2 Much Tribulation]

170. Promise to "Create a public option health plan for new National Health Ins Exchange" = STALLED? wtf?

When promises like a public option are listed only as "stalled" instead of broken or abandoned or denied, who can believe this site's overall numbers and ratings?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

182. it might have something to do with the public option

being in the House bill ne?

And as such until its in or out of the conference bill then its stalled(tho i guess it fits in the section thats its being worked on as well). Can't call it broken or fulfilled until the bill is actually done

[cliffordu]

174. BUT HE'S A CORPORATION!!!! SERIES!!!! ELEVENNS!!!!

[donco6]

175. I'm not sure that's something to crow about.

A promise is a promise. No?

[TheKentuckian]

181. Benedict Arnold was one of the greatest heroes of the Revolution too.

Arguably, we wouldn't be here without his exploits. It's not a tit for tat thing. Some checks mean a hell of a lot more than some X's and vice versa

Make the wrong move at the wrong time and it casts a shadow over everything you've done sometimes (see LBJ). Do the the right thing at a crucial time and it overcomes some of the nastiest muck (see Lincoln and FDR).

[rasputin1952]

183. Good link, thank you...

One of the most difficult things to do in the political arena is to get through the clash and clatter of those who believe that because their specific notions were not immediately addressed and and "won", there is inherent failure in everything beyond that point. Since we all have varied "interests" in what gets passed and what doesn't, the din becomes almost unbearable at times.

There are many facets to politics, very rarely, is anything cut and dried/black and white. As I've stated innumerable times in the past, most things in politics are incremental at best...and that is really a good thing. Societies in general do not change overnight, and in the few times they do, chaos ensues. Fear of change seems to be a constant in societies, this can never be taken lightly. Before societal changes take place, it is imperative to ensure fear of change is taken out of the equation.

Many years ago, there was an fear in this country that if slaves were educated, they would rise up and demand freedom and equality. In some instances, this was backed by a very few instances of violence that were blown out of proportion as to appear to be a full fledged insurrection...(think Cinque and john Brown); this increased the level of fear of the interests that thought slavery was somehow a "good thing". It increased the abuse of slaves, (which seems incredible considering slavery is so inhumane by it's very nature), and set back efforts to remove slavery from slate of change. This fear eventually brought this nation to a point where Civil War ensued at a tremendous cost, and although slavery was abolished by writ of law, it continued in various guises for a century longer. (It should be noted that the "what if" scenario of Lincoln not being assassinated, transition would have been far more fluid and most likely would have avoided a century of spastic efforts to bestow Equal Rights to a large segment of the nation's population).

Which brings me to the point of this post...The president is not a king, he cannot "mandate" laws, we have a three branched government to ensure that executive power does not reach levels where that power is focused to the point where one man/woman can become a dictatorial power him/herself, (or any other branch acquire such power). This system has been challenged by developments over our entire history. From George Washington on, there have been concessions made to move the nation forward, (and occasionally backward), in a manner that has served us relatively well over the 200+ years we've been a Democratic Republic. With each step forward, and the occasional bound forward, we have made this nation a better place, ("we" being the citizens of this nation since it's inception). The president has a 9-1 "promise kept" ratio at this point, that is pretty darn good, considering that many of those "keeps" have torn down some of the atrocities bush/cheney put into action.

Not bad for a first year in a four year presidency, one that any president could, and should, be proud of. Over the next three years, more progress will be made. The more "contentious" the issue, the more press it gets...that is a double edged sword; but with time, I believe we see changes that benefit this nation as a whole as we move forward. Whether that movement be inch by inch, or foot by foot...as long as we are moving forward, we will all benefit. It is not about "miracles", it is about hard work to make changes, we all need to work on the changes that benefit this nation, we all hold in our hands, the tools to make changes, it is question of whether we will use them.

[NJmaverick]

186. Very well said Rasputin. I think we also had the founding fathers

building in a certain amount of inertia into our system, that prevent change from being too radical and too fast. As you pointed out if change happens too quickly chaos often ensues.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

190. That was the original purpose of the Senate

The Founders feared that transient passions would create bad legislation. So the Senate was created as a check on popular will. The whole purpose of the Senate is to act as a legislative break pedal.

[rasputin1952]

192. The best avenue for change has always been the rational route...

We cannot comprehend what the Founders knew as fact of the time, they had just lived under a system that had "bloodlines" ruling the nation. They lived through the abuses of "Royal Decree", and were profoundly aware of how such things destroy individuals and societies. To be sure, there were failures in the initial work, slavery and the complete lack of women's rights initially. I still find it profoundly absurd that women were not accorded Equal Rights from the beginning. As for slavery, that, unfortunately, was a concession that was "necessary" to get the fledgling nation off to a start. The Founders would have been well advised to follow the British in abolishing the practice, probably the single thing they should have taken from the British Parliament and used. I know why it was left in the Constitution, by for the life of me, I cannot, in good conscience, accept it. I find the very idea of one human being owning another as an atrocity in itself.

One thing I've found in advancing Human Rights to the GLBT community, is that as recently as five years ago, the thought that some 45% of the population polled would be in favor of Gay Rights, would have been lauded as "impossible". But with education and the tearing down of old walls of bigotry, the move toward full Equality is moving forward. I'd say, within the next 5 years, 60-70% will see the need to tear down what's left of this form of discrimination. It's all about education and dispelling the fear of the "gay agenda"...the only agenda is that for full Rights and Privileges for a segment of society that has been oppressed since time immemorial. Slowly, people are seeing there is no "threat", and gays will be afforded the same Rights and Privileges other citizens benefit from.

If we work together with the tools we were entrusted with, we will see change. If, however, we remain divided on so many fronts, we seal our own fate, and progress will will be stalled for a very long time. It took women until 1920, to gain suffrage...far to late in this Republic, but finally, it was accomplished, simply by using the tools we had at our disposal. Too bad, those tools remained in the shed for far too long.

[LWolf]

187. Of course, most of his promises

were bad to begin with.

Promising to yoke us with bad policy, and keeping those promises, is hardly a good thing.

[Vinca]

191. Unfortunately, no matter how many promises are kept, if you are a person

who is desperate for decent health care - like gaspe's mother who is uninsured and diagnosed with colon cancer - it really doesn't matter if money for green jobs is doubled or not. Obama should not have abandoned us on a public option. I still support the POTUS over what might have been, but we might also have been discussing our new national health care program as opposed to how badly the insurance companies are going to continue to screw us and that's a huge disappointment. I can get over the ommission of prison work programs.

[graywarrior]

202. NJmaverick, I know you try but you cannot reason with hysteria

The thinking in GD & GDP is an irrational and overly emotional cesspool. I come here to laugh now.

[Hekate]

203. Amazing, isn't it?

And kind of scary.

Hekate

[graywarrior]

204. It's teabaggery

[Hekate]

206. Yes, that would be the scary part

:-(

[freddie mertz]

216. "Hysteria"=those who not agree with you.

Very...revealing.

[Forkboy]

219. NJ is pro war and anti labor. I'd rather be hysterical.

[OnyxCollie]

205. Sometimes qualitative analysis is better than quantitative analysis.

Do all lies carry the same weight? Is failing to deliver a puppy when Obama promised the same as failing to push for a public option when he promised to do so?

According to Iraq on the Record, the bush administration told 237 false and misleading statements about Iraq. If say, giving only 11 false statements were enough to get the US to invade Iraq, would that be enough to want bush to be prosecuted for war crimes?

[SunsetDreams]

210. kick

[pokercat999]

211. Not all promises are the same.

I promise to meet you for golf by 9:00 am Saturday I get there at 8:55 AM....promise kept.
I promise to pick you up at the airport, although your plane is an hour late I wait for you....promise kept.
I promise to help you build a new deck on your house, it takes us three weeks but I'm there every day...promise kept.
I promise to mow your yard while you take a vacation, you come home to compliments from your neighbors on your new gardner.....promise kept.
I promise to eat my veggies and get more exercise...I eat 5 servings a day and walk at least two miles everyday...promise kept.
I promise to vote a straight Democratic ticket and do so every election for the last several years....promise kept.
I promise to be your best man at your 3rd wedding, I reluctantly do so, even though I have a massive hangover....promise kept.
I promise to take you fishing, we catch a whole stringer full of fish and I show you my secret spots...promise kept.
I promise to go to the ball game with you, we have a great time and I buy all the beers.....promise kept.
I borrow $100K from you and promise to pay you back with interest in three months.....it's been a year and you haven't seen or heard from me......90% of promises kept...quit your complaining.

[SunsetDreams]

212. Not everything is relevant either

as per exampled in your post.

[pokercat999]

213. Exactly my point.

[ddeclue]

217. DISHONEST OP - It's NOT "how many" it's WHICH!

He has totally screwed us on HCR and has failed us on economic recovery while bailing out the banksters.

[ShortnFiery]

218. Let us not forget the continuing Occupations and Summary Executions of ...

al Quaeda "suspects." Wow! What if our police could send a killer drone to KILL all "suspects?"

No charges, no trial ... the Pentagon plays Judge, Jury and Executioner of SUSPECTS.

Bravo President Obama, you've sent more KILLER DRONES than Bush, and thus, you piss all over International Law.

The rest of the World both fears and loathes the USA. Even our allies are taken aback ... but know better than to speak up for Human Rights. Well maybe Germany has had about enough? We'll see.