WJC on Obama "A few years ago, this guy would have been getting us coffee”

[denem]

(Politco) More from the hatchet job that is "Game Change". The source given is Edward Kennedy, who of course is unable to refute it.

I'm posting this now, before the flamebait explosion, to ask a simple question: If Bill had said something as incendiary and out of character as this to Ted, why would he repeat it? Only a neophyte would ignore the potential damage that could do to the Democratic Party.

The same article says relations between Obama and Biden became so strained the two barely talked. That's nothing like the campaign I remember, but sounds a lot like the GOP effort.

I don't think "Game Change" is gossip. It seems more like spinning GOP gossip on the Democratic campaign, into something like English: Scoops from the inside of a skunkworks.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0110/31302.html

[pnwmom]

1. I have no reason to believe it. n/t

[denem]

3. In 2004 Obama was already blazingly bright.

Bill talked about 'serving coffee'? I don't think so. It's lies.

[depakid]

25. In 2004, Obama was a state senator with an unsuccessful congressional bid

who gave pretty good speeches.

Metaphorically, the "quote" was correct.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

26. Please explain how the supposed quote was correct? Since when do state senators fetch coffee?

[depakid]

28. You really aren't that thick, are you?

[SemiCharmedQuark]

31. Yay for personal attacks.

Still, I don't have a magical view into your mind. I don't understand your point, hence why I asked you to clarify.

[depakid]

34. Just an observation- and a question as to whether you recognize abstract concepts

like analogy and metaphor.

[karynnj]

32. Depends when in 2004 - in the beginning of the year, I agree with you

but, after John Kerry chose him to be the key note speaker - no. After he gave the speech - NO WAY.

The comment, if true, was unfortunate. Imagine if any of the Senators supporting Obama had said to Kennedy when HRC was inevitable that a few years ago "she would have been serving us coffee" what the justifiable anger would have been here. (In fact, if Clinton did say that about Obama mentioning that to Bill Clinton would likely have been the best thing Kennedy could have done to show Clinton how wrong it was.)

Now, this comment is hearsay - Kennedy supposedly repeated it to an unnamed friend. I suspect that if true, we would have heard about it. This "Kennedy friend" apparently told one of the two authors - if he was willing to do that, I would imagine that he would have told others and it would have been out there.

[depakid]

35. After that, he was still an unproven junior Senator

albeit an "anointed" one.

One thing for sure though- the 2004 speech was considerable more moving (and pleasant to listen to) than the long winded morass that Clinton gave in 1988. (Understatement).

Americans hadn't really seen competence in the art of rhetoric like that since Mario Coumo brought the house down 20 years earlier.

[karynnj]

40. He was extremely junior to be considered for President,

but I would assume that this took place in 2006. (I did not see a time frame in the excerpts). The first bill that passed the Senate in 2006 was the ethics bill. Obama was involved with some of the amendments that added some teeth with regards to lobbyists. He was able to get agreement on this OVER Chuck Schumer's adamant objections. This is really a pretty amazing thing for a freshman Senator to have done - and the fact that it was a high road effort appealing to Senators better angels, not their campaign financing accounts is remarkable.

I would assume that that in conjunction with the fact that the speech made him a star fast track Senator were reasons he was considered. It might also have been the fact that they had decided that they did not want Hillary. Given the Hillary machine, they needed a candidate, who had enough teflon to deflect the attacks that would come fast and furious once the candidate was seen as a threat and who might, while building support, almost be under the radar. We all looked at the possibilities in 2005 and 2006 here. Many of us, who did not want Hillary could not find a candidate they could get excited about.

Dodd, Richardson and Biden, all men with excellent resumes did not engender any real enthusiasm. Clark was pretty much a small internet favorite, who had imploded very quickly in 2004. The Senators knew how Edwards was in the general election in 2004 and likely were not amused by his polemics against the Congress in 2005. That leaves Gore and Kerry, both incredibly accomplished men with proven integrity and character.

Gore actually won 2000 and he had returned to warn the country of the wrong path they had taken. Gore, who was 100% right, was smeared. He had been Clinton's VP and a race between him and Clinton would likely have been incredibly nasty and might have damaged the party. It also would have been nasty from the minute he showed interest to the election. From various comments, there was no way Gore wanted to put his family through that again.

Kerry, nearly won in 2004, acted as if he wanted to run again and he had by 2006 positioned himself perfectly on the issues. As a someone who thinks Kerry could have been our best leader, he could not either gain support under the radar (as he did in 2004) and he was not one of the Teflon people and there was no one the media was less friendly to. Even if Kerry did Clinton, he would bear the scars of the Rove campaign against him in 2004 AND everything the Clintons would hit him with. Although his family supported him running if he wanted to, it would have been very hard for them to endure what likely would have been another one and a half to two years as bad as the worst of the swiftboating in 2004. (Note that HRC's stab in the back comment on the "joke" took the Republican line ignoring Kerry's more than 3 decades of helping vets and soldiers.)

If what Reid and others were looking for was someone who was a new face, who had leadership skills, integrity, personality and charisma, there really was not a long list of people available.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

27. Me neither.

I don't believe anything from Halperin's book that isn't sourced elsewhere.

[secondwind]

2. I don't believe that either, although Clinton DID get pretty feisty during the campaign....

[denem]

4. Obama and Biden weren't on speaking terms?

WTF

[mucifer]

5. It's possible he said it. But, then people who write books lie. Politicians lie.

I hope he didn't say it.

[denem]

6. State Senators, US Senators, don't serve coffee.

I can't see Bill throwing something so outrageous at Ted Kennedy. I can't hear him saying it period.

[Captain Hilts]

8. Exactly. nt

[CreekDog]

17. Actually Ted Kennedy describes being troubled by things leading up to his endorsement of Obama

Everyone thinks that is solely confined to the campaign immediately preceding the primary as being racially tinged...but I kind of doubt he made up his mind that quickly. I think he might have had some discomfort that was confirmed by what happened in the campaign.

[karynnj]

33. One thing the NYT reported at one point was that Kennedy

was disturbed that the Clinton team and some of their MA people really went after Kerry, his family and close supporters after he endorsed. I doubt that would impress Kennedy. Not to mention all the SC comments - made on TV.

[Captain Hilts]

7. Clinton's track record gives us no reason to believe this. nt

[denem]

9. Clinton's political acumen gives us no reason to believe

he would say anything like this to Ted Kennedy of all people. It's an obvious lie that says more than enough about this book.

[Captain Hilts]

11. No way he would have said that to Ted. nt

[grasswire]

10. It's lies.

What a chickenshit thing to do: attribute a quote like that to a dead man's memory.

I don't believe Clinton said it. It's just not his way.

[Captain Hilts]

12. If it were true, it calls into question why Bubba would have felt comfortable saying it to Ted. It

demeans both.

[monmouth]

13. Bill was looking for Ted's endorsement for Hillary. If this was prior

to Kennedy endorsing Obama, I don't doubt it for a moment. He was pretty outrageous during that time and said a lot of stupid thngs. As much as you don't want to believe it, Will Jeff has a dark side, the old Arkansian bigotry might have blown through

[denem]

14. He's hardly stupid enough to think it would go over well with Ted.

I mean really?

[monmouth]

15. Who knows?.....n/t

[Captain Hilts]

16. By appealing to Ted Kennedy's inner racist? This story makes no sense on any level. nt

[karynnj]

41. I think the comment might have been appealing to a Kennedy sense

that it was "not his turn" yet. To Clinton, it might have been 100% clear that this was Hillary's turn. In that case, the comment simply meant that Obama was raising too fast - and he likely would have said the same if it was O'bama, a charming Irish American, who was a junior Senator, who had given a wonderful speech at the 2004 convention.

[CreekDog]

19. He said lots of stupid things --smart as he is, his mouth was Hillary's best opponent

I was a big Bill Clinton fan and defender up until then.

Then I saw a side of Bill that is encapsulated by that alleged comment:

That Obama doesn't deserve to be even in the same league as Hillary.

It was completely dismissive of Obama and mocking of people that came to support Obama.

I know for a fact that Bill and Hillary's approach to that campaign changed my vote from Clinton to Obama in the days before.

I wanted to vote for Obama, but Hillary seemed more sensible (tried and tested), but then in South Carolina they started just letting it fly and it was maddening. I finally said, "screw it, I like him, I think he's more liberal, I'm voting for him and if he can't win because he's black, so be it."

That was a new position for me and I came to it quickly out of anger at the Clintons (which subsided greatly).

[dsc]

20. try to imagine for a second that a gay poster complaining about

Obama's positions on gays or say even a similiar quote allegedly said to say Colin Powell, said well that old black bigotry against gays. He would be branded a racist. Just what should you be branded?

[Blasphemer]

18. I agree that this isn't very believable... nt

[Jennicut]

21. I wouldn't put it past Clinton to say it but remember gossip like this is hard to

prove and Teddy is not around anymore to deny it or confirm it. Be wary.

[butterfly77]

22. Politico is the rightwing of their party...

they have been posting here a lot lately. Expect,to hear Cheney's newest release this week from Politico.

[Jack Rabbit]

23. There is no context for the remark

Let's see, we have, who can't say anything, quoting Clinton, who if he intended to incendiary would have pitched it to somebody more likely to be receptive to the idea than Teddy Kennedy.

In any case, no context is provided. Perhaps it was something like: It's really remarkable how attitudes have changed. A few years ago this guy would have been getting us coffee, and now he's running for president and just might make it.

One could also say: Two hundred years ago, Obama would have been chopping our wood and his wages would be payable to his owner. That may be incendiary, too, but it's also a fact.

Speaking of chopping wood, this sounds like a hatchet job.

[ecstatic]

24. Agreed. And, if it is an exact quote, then "a few years ago" would have been around 2005

While racism was still rampant in 2005 (and still rampant now), it was nothing like the 50s. He didn't say a "few decades ago" or 50 years ago. So that leads me to believe Clinton (if this story is even true) was moreso referring to age and experience. Don't get me wrong, Clinton did act like an asshole on the trail and even said many questionable (racist?) things, but my observations of him over the past 10+ years doesn't allow me to interpret his comments in the worst light (especially without more context/information).

[BlueMTexpat]

29. I'm with you both; I can believe that such words could possibly have

been said off the cuff, although if he did say them to Ted K, I could believe that the context might even have been admiration or acknowledgment that some (still too little, IMO) social progress had been made because I can't think how he would be doing Hillary's cause any good with Ted otherwise.
Ted isn't here to rebut and so only Bill knows the truth. But what amazes me (and it really shouldn't, I guess) is such words incense Republicans, whose track records in many instances either show evidence of clearly racist behavior or at the least failure to acknowledge how their own policies have implicitly or explicitly worsened the situation, at any time since Abraham Lincoln when they have held political power.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. This is all the right wing have to talk about because they have no policies

[depakid]

36. +1

unfortunately though- concrete policies aren't the be all and end all in the American political system. If they were, Democrats would be much more progressive- and Republicans would be relegated to the fringe where they belong.

Instead- the major influences- what really drives elections are the narratives, the frames, the subtexts- and the emotional appeals.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

39. the 'spin doctors'

[themaguffin]

37. Let's not confuse the authors' claimed paraphrase with actual quotes

[Avalux]

38. Actual quotes of what? n/t