The crappy hcr bill will sink us.

[dkf]

The fact that we could lose Teddy Kennedys seat over this bill is a huge indicator of how unpopular it is. We are in danger of losing true blue Massachusetts and a bunch of you think this bill is worth it? Is it worth losing the Senate?

We are giving the Repukes such a freebie. After all that hard work electing democrats they threw it away. I am disgusted.

[VMI Dem]

1. A Democratic loss of that seat will not happen.

Period.

[Craftsman]

5. The fact that they are even close is a bad sign

THE HCR bill is poison.

[dkf]

10. What makes me upset is that it is obvious the bill is an electoral loser.

But it sounds like the party wasn't really prepared for it or they wouldn't be doing all this last minute ramping up.

Makes me scared they are clueless

[timeforpeace]

38. Your OP is dead on. To lose his seat, in Mass, over HCR...an incomparable disaster.

[dflprincess]

43. It's not HCR and we have to stop calling it that

this is just a scam to protect the health insurance companies and their profits. It has nothing to do with improving Americans' access to health care.

[golfguru]

47. You are exactly right.....eom

[last1standing]

6. And if it does?

Wishing doesn't make things happen, just like arguing that Obama's policies are good for the Democratic party and the nation doesn't just make it so. The people of MA are obviously angry about something and its highly unlikely that they feel that the Democratic party has pulled us too far to the left. So either they really don't like Cokely, which doesn't sound likely based on her past success, they really like Brown, or they're upset about what the Democratic majority has done since taking over the house, senate and white house.

Its time that the Democrats looked to their base.

[last1standing]

2. The republicrats don't want to accept it, but you are correct.

K&R

[vi5]

3. No silly...it's progressives fault

for not towing the party line and acting like Republicans did under Bush and just demanding that everyone clap louder.

[DrDan]

9. hmmmmmm

is it "towing the party line" - as in pulling the D-efforts along

or "toeing the party line" -as in stepping up to the D-issues


I wish you hadn't done that - now I am confused.


******************************************** on edit

guess it is "toe the line"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_the_line

http://grammartips.homestead.com/toetheline.html

[niceypoo]

27. D-efforts and D-issues have been thrown under the bus

We swallowed the bitter pill of the Baucus bill because it was going to be, 'fixed in the Senate.' The Senate bill was handed over to Lieberman and wrecked. Now the Baucus bill is seen as the more progressive of the two.

The rank and file of the Democratic party were thrown under the bus in the name of non existent, 'bipartisanship,' and the whole process was handed to Democrats (blue-dogs) who were against universal healthcare from the start.

Happy, happy, joy, joy.

[DrDan]

29. I was simply perplexed as to whether it was

"toe the line" or "tow the line". Both seemed to make some sense.

Not that I disagree with your comments . . .

[midnight]

4. Obama said he was going to be a one termer..... I think this is working rather

well for all the deciders....

[natrat]

7. of course -rahm and the dlc type thugs want the congress moved to the right

don't count me in with the "we" -the white house is a cesspool of corrupt bastards owned by the corporate junta

[monmouth]

8. She doesn't strike me as much of a candidate. She thought she had

it in the bag and slacked off of campaigning. Not impressed with her at all..(D) behind her name or not.

[dkf]

12. They should have run a Kennedy.

And what they did to Caroline in NY is shameful.

[DonkeyHoTay]

52. Eggs......actly! n/t

[tnlefty]

53. I wanted to hear what she had to say today, but MSNBC had

her sound down during the rally, went to commercials (I left the room), and I never had a chance to hear her. I know that the President was the big draw, but I wanted to hear the candidate, too.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Or maybe Martha Coakely sucks

[Craftsman]

13. Coakley is a subpare candidate to be sure

but this is MA, most dems just have to ba able to fog a mirror to win in that state.

[BeyondGeography]

16. Even if it's MA, this isn't the year to mail it in anywhere

From what I've heard, she has run a very safe, uninspiring campaign and went totally dark over the holidays. Our party has suffered from these unimaginative types before. Pisses me off.

[dkf]

15. Or maybe she is bad at defending the HCR bill.

[CoffeeCat]

14. You are exactly right....

This bill is a train wreck. Republicans loathe it and half of the Democratic party does too.

It is a giveaway for the insurance companies--who basically wrote the entire bill!

We asked for healthcare reform. There is no reform. Instead, we are being FORCED THROUGH
MANDATES to participate in a broken system. There are NO cost controls. So, if you
are able to afford the premiums--it is entirely possible that they will stick us on
co-pays and deductibles. This bill has NO oversight on costs, which has been a central
problem with healthcare.

I don't get how, in this economy, people are going to come up with $4,000, $6,000 or even
$2,000 for the premiums. Obama scoffed at unfunded mandates during the campaign, when
Hillary's plan contained them. Now, they're a cornerstone of his plan.

Plus, the taxes begin on this plan almost immediately, but services don't kick in for
a few years. Yeah. That's going to go over REAL well.

This bill is a pile of dung. It's a shame. We'll lose big time in 2010. Maybe
that's their plan.

[area51]

22. +1 (n/t)

[HughMoran]

17. Coming from you,

...it's just more negativity that I've come to expect from you.

When you're always negative, there's no point to considering your opinion. Your opinion has no value any more.

[dkf]

19. I'm negative because I saw this coming. I just didn't realize it would be this soon.

I feel like Al Gore. You guys are the climate change deniers here.

[timeforpeace]

39. Cheer up then. Maybe you'll be as successful as he has been and Coakley will win.

[dkf]

40. I felt this doom in the 2000 presidential election.

I used to stay up at nights unable to sleep. I'd go over and over in my mind what we could do to win while feeling frustrated at what was going on.

[Blue Meany]

18. Yeah, and the argument that the Repubs would have done

worse isn't something to really rally around. If the Dems took a truly progressive stand on things and then framed it from a populist perspective (e.g. working people are being screwed by the current health care system, because they have to compete with foreign workers whose companies don't have ths cost) they could probably expand the ranks of the party with a lot of people from the Republican working-class base.

[Faryn Balyncd]

20. K&R - - Which is worse: Losing Massachusetts or Democrats passing a corportist mandate?

Whatever happens in Massachusetts, it's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

21. I'm sure you're cheering for that. (nt)

[dkf]

24. I'm A Cassandra.

And im not a head in the sand type of person.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

31. No, your head is somewhere else. (nt)

[niceypoo]

25. Wow

Such a well thought out, reasoned response.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. It didn't deserve thought and I'm tired of giving reason where it isn't welcomed. (nt)

[bvar22]

23. Less than 35% of ALL Americans...

...support Mandates w/o a Public Option.

THIS is going to be a Hard Sell for the Democratic Party.
ALL projection show Premiums INCREASING over the next few years.
America WILL blame the Democrats....and rightly so.

The unfortunate results will be MORE Republicans in power.
But the Corporate Democrats would rather see a Republican in a seat of power than a REAL "Democrat" since they both work for the same people anyway.


No wonder "they" has to kill Wellstone.
"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[whistler162]

26. well at least you lose weight by all the panic

running around.

[nightrain]

28. be disgusted with corporate-sponsored government instead.

[dkf]

35. I am

The health care bill is exactly that.

[Puglover]

30. This is all such bullshit.

And I don't mean your OP as much as the whole media crapfest about this. DRAMA. Mass will not elect a Republican. But gnash and wail if it makes you feel good.

[Ganja Ninja]

33. It's not the bill per say, it's the process that has people pissed.

The GOP didn't craft this bill. They hardly participated at all. People hardly know what's in the bill but they know it's not what they wanted. This bill is the product of the Democratic party and the process has been very revealing about the exact makeup of the party. Funny thing, the Democratic party turns out not to be all that liberal or progressive. In fact it's full of corrupt self serving corporate toadies that would be right at home in the GOP. That's why their going to get their asses handed to them in 2010.

[Aramchek]

34. you're not very intelligent if you think Brown is going to win.

[dkf]

36. I'm not sure he will win but I think he has a good chance and I find that unforgivable.

[Aramchek]

42. his chances have nothing to do with HCR, and everything to do with his opponent.

but she'll still win.

[FrenchieCat]

37. I'm disgusted with your disgust, and have been so for a long time.

You put out a self fulfilling prophecy,
and then you almost wish it to happen.

You are part of the problem,
and not part of the solution.

The more you whine, the worse it gets.

You should go and hang out with Chris Matthews....
because he likes the way you think.

[dkf]

41. The solution is to turn the boat around. We are on the wrong track.

Why get mad at me for being right? This shouldn't be close at all.

[Cali_Democrat]

44. The media is playing you like a fiddle

They throw one Massachusetts poll out there and it has you absolutely panicked.

It's crazy how effective the mediawhores can be.

[Narraback]

45. As I said in a GD thread. I worked two night this week on phones

for Martha, and what I heard was this: Dem's are coming home. They are voting for the Democrat - who is Martha. They will vote, and if they do we win - this is the key to the election. If we get turn out for Martha then the Democratic Party wins! Period end of story.

The few supported of the other guy that I spoke to never mentioned Health Care. Also, some were just plan nuts! I mean screaming obscenities in to the phone.

So, I my opinion, Health Care had nothing to do with the voters I spoke too. If we get the turn out we win.

I will phone bank more tomorrow and work election day. Please join me and help win an election.

Thank you, Narraback

[dkf]

46. How are the independents? Are they going to vote?

I hear there are more Indys then dems in MA

[Kltpzyxm]

48. it's pretty simple

we know no matter WHAT was proposed the Republicants would be against it.

So,then, you should come up with something that liberals can passionately advocate for.

This ain't it.

[smalll]

49. Don't let the shitty be the enemy of the craptastic --

(not my own line, saw it on DU a while ago, perfect.)

[PolNewf]

50. Some of you don't seem to realize

that you are 20% of the population and you want Obama to force your preference on the other 80%. Look at the polls on healthcare. ~45% are against it because it is too liberal, ~10% are against it because it isn't liberal enough.

Passing this bill doesn't prevent you adding a public option down the road. Not passing this bill definitely will.

[AzDar]

51. K & R

[mplo]

54. You may be interested to know that, although he's not in Massachusetts,

Congressman Dennis Kucinich was one of the few Democrats who had the courage and the decency to vote against this bill, because he knew that it would be a disaster.

[wisteria]

55. It is not the HCB in Mass. that is the problem.

And, tje HCB is not that unpopular- it just needs to be explained better by the Democrats.