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Analysis of the MA Senate race (and why we'd still likely get HCR even if Coakley lost)

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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:01 AM
Original message
Analysis of the MA Senate race (and why we'd still likely get HCR even if Coakley lost)
"
...
One recent poll put Coakley ahead by 15 points, but another poll put Brown ahead by 1 point. That is a 16-point spread on two polls taken close together, each with a margin of error of about 4%. What gives? The problem is that special elections have a notoriously low turnout. Finding out what the general public in the state thinks is easy, but figuring out who will vote and who will not is extremely difficult. Different pollsters have different screens (if any) and that leads to these wildly different results.

During the past week, the DSCC has begun to panic and is running negative ads on Boston TV saying that if Brown wins, it will kill health-insurance reform. Brown has proudly acknowledged as much saying essentially: "If you want to kill this awful bill, vote for me." As the race becomes nationalized though, that helps Coakley since Democrats outnumber Republicans by a wide margin in Massachusetts and a close race might motivate many of them to vote on Tuesday.

If Brown wins, what happens to the health-insurance bill? Does it just die? Well, it is complicated. First, Coakley might call Al Franken and say: "Tell me what you know about long fights about election results." No doubt Franken still vaguely remembers his half-year-long battle with Norm Coleman and would advise her to contest the election and demand a recount. A recount and a bit of legal action could take months to resolve, during which time Paul Kirk remains a senator and can vote. He only loses his job when the new senator is sworn in.

Even if Coakley concedes, the certificate of election must be signed by both the Secretary of the Commonwealth, William Galvin (D) and Gov. Deval Patrick (D). Neither might be in a big hurry to sign. There is no law forcing them to sign the day after the election. The Republicans could go to court to try to force them to sign, but the court case could take weeks. And the Republicans couldn't argue that Massachusetts was not fully represented in the Senate because Sen. Kirk would still be there.

Finally, even if Brown won and was sworn in quickly, that would not necessarily mean the end of the health-insurance bill. The Senate did pass a bill on Christmas Eve. If the House were to vote on and pass exactly the same bill--word for word with zero changes--then there would be a bill that both houses of Congress passed and could go to the President to sign. Of course, House members wouldn't like having the Senate bill shoved down their throats, but if it were the Senate bill or nothing, it would get 218 votes.

The (secret) negotiations between Senate and House Democrats are still going on. It is assumed that the House has given up all hope of getting a public option in the bill, but there are many other contentious topics to be ironed out. These include which taxes to raise to pay for it, who is poor enough to qualify for Medicaid, language about abortion, whether the insurance industry's antitrust exemption will be eliminated, who may use the plan federal employees get, whether the new insurance exchanges are national or state-based, and more. While there are various leaks floating around, no real news is available on what has been decided. If it were easy, it would all be done before next Tuesday's election, but that won't happen. In order to try to break the stalement, President Obama is actively talking to the leaders of both chambers."
...

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2010/Senate/Maps/Jan14-s.html#1
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nobody wants to hear sensible analysis here. Only doom sells on DU lately. NT
Edited on Fri Jan-15-10 10:03 AM by dmallind
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yes. Should I apologize for the lack of doom?
:rofl:
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Realistic appraisal may well make this all moot...
Doom or is it putting the very real fear of loss into those who might become motivated to act?
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. How does a realistic appraisal spell doom?
Most polls have Coakley up. It's a wild swinging race where turnout matters. Yes it's harder than a MA seat should be and Coakley is not exactly Bill Clinton level as a campaigner, but where is the near-certainty of a loss so many here spout coming from?
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I fear that you may not be up to date...
Edited on Fri Jan-15-10 11:15 AM by hlthe2b
Credible analysts including Nate Silver to Stu Rothenberg have looked at the latest poll showing Brown up one point and interpreted the current situation as a dead heat. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/01/ok-its-toss-up.html

Brown has the momentum right now and DEMS have to go all out to motivate our own to vote. Bad turn out will doom us. Vicky Kennedy just did an ad which will help. But, to suggest we are NOT at risk of losing this seat and that it is all MSM hype (which is what I originally thought) would be foolish, IMO (as well as many others).

Not a doomsday appraisal.. just a realistic one. We are at risk of losing.




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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
4. What do I care about HCR passing? I. Want. 60. Votes. In. The. Senate.
Edited on Fri Jan-15-10 10:10 AM by dkf
Period. If we lose one it should be Lieberman.
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Imajika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
5. If Brown wins Kennedy's seat in Mass..
..and the Democrats push this HCR bill through anyway, the party will literally be destroyed in November.

My guess is a Brown win gives enough pause to many conservadems and DINO's in both the House and Senate that the bill will stall and wither on the vine.

And no, I do not think the House can get 218 votes for the Senate bill as is, nor do I think they would try.

The message a Brown win, running AGAINST the HCR bill, would send is so strong it would kill HCR. Period.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. The certification of the election result will not take place until February 20..
according to most sources. Health reform will be moot by then.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yep.
I always thought her saying she would support reform was a moot point as I always assumed she'd never vote on it anyway. Same a[pplied to that teabagger Brown - he's played no part in this and will not get to vote on it even if he were to somehow pull off the massive upset.
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RussWorld Donating Member (10 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
10. Zero chance of 218 yea's
For a vote on an intact Senate bill.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-15-10 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
11. Erroneous analysis. If she loses, other Dems will chicken out for sake of their reelection chances.
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