I'm sorry and may get in trouble but Fu-k Howard Dean

[Top Cat]

He just told Rachel if George Bush was President the healthcare bill would be passed.

[JI7]

1. there was not even be a real debate on health care if Bush was President

we would be discussing attacking Iran over some fake made up connection with the underwear bomber and IRan.

[Top Cat]

I agree... Bush did not help us he is the reason we are in this mess now.

It's sad that so many of us have such a short memory...

[JI7]

15. people are stupid, this is what happened in California when idiots blamed Davis

when he was the ones who called out the corruption of the energy companies. and put in place that piece of shit Arnold. and now look at what a mess we are in.

[Armstead]

2. He's right --- The GOP is more effective at getting things done

They might be bad things, but they do get it done.

[FrenchieCat]

10. That's because they stick together and strategize

instead of dogging each other out endlessly.

[Armstead]

26. Well they have a core set of principles

Bad principles, but principles nonetheless.

And they believe in them, and they believe that America will buy their ideology.

We piss and moan and say "we can't do this because America will never accept liberal/progressive policies." And then we look for excuses.

[Ildem09]

53. aye

and they also only have like 2-3 faction. we have like 10 factions

[JVS]

63. And they don't shit all over their activists for having those principles

[Doremus]

3. You have an aversion to the truth? nt

[Top Cat]

11. Excuse me? What the HELL DOES THAT MEAN

[salguine]

72. It means Dean spoke the truth and you pitched a childish tantrum over it.

[jgraz]

You miss the point. Bush got a lot of what he wanted with razor-thin majorities.

He wasn't saying Bush would pass health care reform, but that Bush would pass what he wanted.

[Top Cat]

19. Fuck Bush, Dean and all the others this is BS...

As the old saying goes be careful what you ask for. I personally hope that Brown give the people of Mass his ass to kiss which he will.

[jgraz]

27. a.k.a. The truth.

We just lost Ted Kennedy's seat to a Teabagger. Time for progressives to wake up and take charge.

[treestar]

36. Those were different times

Besides, no one backs this statement up. Just what did get passed? And how close was it to 911?

[jgraz]

40. Yeah, it was a whole 3 or 4 years ago

:eyes:

In 2006 alone, they passed the Military Commissions Act, the PATRIOT Act reauthorization, Homeland Security funding and the border fence.

2005: Bankruptcy "reform", Class action "reform", liability shield for gun makers, CAFTA, Medicare cuts (passed through reconciliation), and the infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" transportation bill.


You might be able to use 9/11 as an excuse for some of it, but Obama had a huge mandate and the biggest majority in a generation (still does, even with this loss). What, exactly, is he doing with it?

[jazzwinders]

4. He's right

He's right because the republicans would have fallen in line and pushed the vote through with or without 60 votes.

[Mimosa]

60. Exactly. LOL. n/t

[bullwinkle428]

5. Bush got shit done. I mean, literally, SHIT. But he got things passed.

[FrenchieCat]

17. He got things passed because he had everyone in lockstep marching behind him...

we, on the otherhand, are busy burning our President's feet over a big bonfire.

[Top Cat]

21. Thanks Frenchie...

[angee_is_mad]

25. a lot of dems followed behind bush

the repubs aren't doing the same thing with Obama.

Dems are thin skin. We do not like to be called soft (on terror, immigration, etc) so to prove that we aren't, we will vote for a BULLSHIT policy.

[LaydeeBug]

75. Or, the President is too busy appeasing the repigs to intercede on key health care issues

Oh, wait, let's ask Olympia Snowe...

[Clio the Leo]

6. I would feel MUTCH better right now...

.... if the far left and the moderates could engage one another it a good old fashioned game of DODGE BALL.

Get the frustration out and get on to the next thing. ..... I mean I would be TOTALLY down with throwing a harmless rubber ball at Martha and Howard right now.

[Armstead]

28. Naw.....ROLLERBALL

}(

[ShortnFiery]

7. Nope, just an un-rec. eom

[senseandsensibility]

8. Get in trouble?

What is this, preschool? It would be a little less preschool like, however, if you gave some reason for your tantrum. Howard Dean sounded like an adult, and you have nothing of substance to say.

[Top Cat]

29. And I see to HELL WITH YOU TO... Howard Dean never should have said what he did on National TV..

He sounds like a sour man because he is not in the game. Instead he should have stayed away from that comment if he really had the interest of the party in mind.

[PassingFair]

44. God knows, no one should be telling the truth!

We can't have that.



I think he should have sounded the alarm EARLIER, don't you?

[valerief]

9. That's assuming Bush wanted it passed. If he wanted it passed, it would have been passed.

Dean was right.

[tblue]

12. Nope. He's right much more often than he's wrong.

I stand with Dean. We owe him, IMHO.

[Top Cat]

68. We don't owe Dean we only owe ourselves the American people...

[d_b]

13. the point is that the pubes get what they want

[BeyondGeography]

14. Fer chrissakes, Bush got stuff through that catered to the worst in mankind

Obama's trying to solve problems, not give shit away to rich people and start phony wars based on fear.

Another asinine statement from Dean.

[LeftyAndProud60]

16. The problem is that Obama doesn't have 51 dems in the senate that have the same values.

Republicans are crazy fuckers, but they all believe the same things. The Dems are too divided. It's much harder.

[jefferson_dem]

18. Respectfully, you misinterpret what he said.

The point was that Boosh governed with a take-no-prisoners resolve. He did what he fucking wanted. If he wanted health reform done, it would be done.

[democrat2thecore]

24. And that's true. Obama not leading the charge BLEW the 60 votes -nt

[karynnj]

20. What - are you sure you heard correctly

He would veto it. Why would he not, EVERY Republican, except one in the House is against it.

[firedupdem]

22. Bush didn't have dems that lockstepped and voted NO before

he even opened his mouth. This president is not dealing with the same situation bush had. Hell, even with a majority, Lieberman, Nelson etc. are still freakin republicans. I'm sick of all these bitter as arm chair quarterbacks...fuck em.

[truebrit71]

23. Howard Dean is 100% right. If Bush wanted something passed, it got passed.

With a large majority in the House and a "Super Majority" in the Senate, Obama can't pass gas, never mind real "change"...

Maybe this Coakley foul-up will wake him up to the reality that when the people are presented with a choice between a republican, and a pseudo republican, they will vote for the republican.

ENOUGH with the bi-partisanship. It isn't working.

Use the mandate you were given before the media and Diebold take it away from you...

[democrat2thecore]

30. "Use the mandate" - you said it perfectly.

Bush may have pushed crazy-assed policies, but he was effective when it came to leading his party in both houses. He wasn't wimpy when it came to playing the game of politics while governing.

[FrenchieCat]

33. His followers weren't whiny and wimpy either......

if they could get 1/2 a loaf, they took it.

[GreenArrow]

45. but they asked for a full loaf

and fought for it, rather than asking for a crust and settling for crumbs.

[FrenchieCat]

54. At the end, even crumbs can keep one from starving to death.

[Top Cat]

69. You are on point Frenchie...

[treestar]

38. Different circumstances

Bush was always able to evoke 911, and enough Democrats went along because they thought that was what the voters wanted.

Republicans vote no, regardless of what is good for the country, all they care about is themselves and their power.

[martymar64]

55. more excuses

:eyes:

[Blasphemer]

51. It sure did

Granted, there were no Democratic obstructionists - quite the opposite in fact. However, the GOP can't even be faulted for the past several months. They've made some noise but have been completely feckless. Democrats have done this to Democrats. They insisted from day one that they needed 60 votes to pass anything and their 60 vote majority was always a myth. Do what it takes to get 50+1 and work to get rid of the dissenting voters because they are not helping the Democratic cause anyway.

[NorthCarolina]

31. I think he was referring to the fact that Bush never required 60 votes in the Senate

to push through his agenda. The Democrats didn't need 60 either, but if they hadn't insisted on 60 votes, they would have quite possibly ended up with a much more Progressive piece of legislation than the DLC would have permitted. The conservative tactic of requiring 60 votes was to help insure that any legislation produced was in line with conservative politicalthink. Dean was not suggesting that Bush would have done Health Care Reform, but rather...hypothetically...if he had, he would have pushed it through with a simple majority.

[Top Cat]

39. I'm sorry but he should not have used Bush in the context that he did.

Again I will say to HELL with Dean....

[martymar64]

57. Go cry to Rahm

:cry:

[Autumn]

32. And that is

fucking true. Bush got whatever he wanted.

[freddie mertz]

34. Dean's point: Dems have to get tough.

I agree with him.

[treestar]

35. I agree with you

Is he a member of our party?

He seems to be trying his best to damage us.

Anyway, Bush would not have signed any such thing as this health care bill.

[mdmc]

37. I bet Bush could have sold the current Senate version

no doubt..

[Democrat_in_Houston]

41. Yes, he would have. Best gift the insurance companies ever got!

:mad:

[uponit7771]

42. Bush had Tom Delay Obama has "...I don't work for him Harry Reid..."

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fadedrose]

46. He was being modest..

If he were still head of the DNC, we wouldn't have lost New Jersey and Virginia, as well as Massachusetts. Of course the health bill would have been passed - maybe single payer.

That's my opinion, no matter who doesn't like it.

[themaguffin]

48. he also meant that W was able to get his team to pass things, but the OP can't understand that

[thatsrightimirish]

47. yes he would have

doesn't mean he was a great President, but he was able to get controversial legislation passed through congress. When republicans were in majority they believed (correctly) that people did not care about senate procedure, they cared about getting bills passed and actual production.
The democrats have a weak stance and they think people do care about senate procedure and that you must have 60 votes to pass anything. republicans are better at selling things and attacking people which is why no meaningful liberal legislation has been passed since the 60's.

[AzDar]

49. Bush got EVERYTHING he wanted, and then some. With less than we have now.

Howard Dean IS RIGHT.

[rateyes]

50. I think he's probably making the point that Republicans stick together.

Democrats don't.

[xultar]

52. Hating reality. Thta's a new one.

[themaguffin]

56. If ONE paid attention to what Dean said, they would not make such assinine comments

Seriously post your freeper comments over there.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

58. I remember when Social Security was privatized.

Liberals build up this mythical version of reality in which the Republicans passed everything they wanted to from 2001-2008 when in reality the only major domestic legislation after 2001 was the energy bill in 2005. Now that you have this false idea of what the Republicans accomplished you're bitterly disappointed when the Democrats aren't able to live up to this fantasy, but they've actually accomplished more in one year than the Republicans ever did in any year from 2002-8.

[Sebastian Doyle]

59. Is this the new talking point off of Rahm's desk?

Yeah, nothing like a good old fashioned DEAN BASH thread on a night when the DLC has once again proven what complete fucking failures they are. :eyes:

[scheming daemons]

61. The reason Bush got what he wanted is he didn't have a faction of his party attacking him constantly

Like the left does with Obama.


Republicans were in lockstep behind him, even if they secretly didn't agree with everything he did.




If Democrats would all unite to pass Obama's agenda without nitpicking every little piece that they disagree with, it would already be done.

[Puglover]

76. Yeah

It's been the progressives holding up this HCR. Seems to me it has been the progressives making all the compromises. Oh wait, are you talking about Lieberman and his pals? Those progressives? What fucking planet do you inhabit?

[JVS]

62. He's right. Far more congressional democrats cooperated with Bush than congressional republicans...

have ever or will ever cooperate with Obama. If you don't like it, tough. That's the damned truth.

[Jakes Progress]

64. Only a simpleton wouldn't understand

what he said, why he said it, and what he meant.

[Vidar]

65. Dean is right.

[depakid]

66. Just telling it like it is- and was

Bush and the Republicans got damn near everything that they wanted- time and time again. Without anywhere near 60 Republican votes.

AND they often did it while excluding Democrats from any input at all- indeed- they often insulted the very same folks (like Barney Frank) who are now saying "we must reach out to them.

Not very bright to reach out to those who've proven repeatedly that their sole objective is to cut your arm off.

Yet that seems to be the prevailing theme- despite how often the Dems are abused- and lose.

[DCBob]

67. Huh?? Bush failed on both social security and immigration reform.

Plus he was a liar, war criminal, started a war under false pretenses and abused the power of his office. Is that what Howard wants in the WH?

[ima_sinnic]

74. fail. missing the point completely. (nt)

[citizen snips]

70. Bush could not get social security reform passed.

So I doubt he could have passed health care reform.

[depakid]

77. That (like welfare and NAFTA) requires a Democrat

Bush would easily have gotten respnsible health care reform through. Hell- his administration even got Dems to go along with the Medicare Part D scam!

[salguine]

71. Oh, Christ, another one of those people who throws a tantrum whenever

someone speaks an unpleasant truth. "Fu-k that guy, he said a lot of Democrats are beholden to corporate interests! Fu-k him!"

[Phx_Dem]

73. rec

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. He's right.

Bush knew how to get legislation through. Obama has yet to prove he knows how to do that.