Fuck Republicans......

[Splinter Cell]

.....and those who vote for them. 'Nuff said.

[treestar]

1. And the progressives for deserting us because we can't get them 100% of

what they want right away.

Republicans don't have that problem.

[DrDan]

4. and what percent are we up to after a year?

100% was not the issue.

Something measurable is.

[treestar]

8. Whatever, it wasn't good enough for the progressives

So they can just try to get Brown to vote for single payer or whatever is good enough for them.

Let them stay home and cry about it.

[DrDan]

9. blame it on the liberals./progressives Carry that thought into the next election.

Tell me how it works out for you.

[treestar]

10. The Republicans are winning again already!

Because nothing the Democrats can get is good enough for the progressives (or so they say).

Of course we can't win, with a "base" that abandons us after one year. The Republicans don't have that problem. Of course they will win.

Let the progressives choke on it then. And stay home and stamp their feet.

They can whine and cry their way through another Republican administration.

100% of what they want or they are staying home and letting the Republicans win! That's what they've been telling us. Now let them enjoy the consequences.

[DrDan]

11. the R's/teabaggers succeed because they campaig on certain key RW issues

tax cuts, more war, America-Number-One elitism, religiious activism. When elected they deliver.

The problem with the the D's is not with their campaigning for key liberal/progressive issues. It is that when elected, they deliver the opposite. More corporate croneyism, protection for the wealthy, more war. Then the party apologists place the blame in the wrong place - with those that brought the election home. "Don't listen to our campaign message - just keep voting for us - you know in your heart we are better than the other guys".

[treestar]

13. I could not disagree more

They tried to get a health care bill, it just was not good enough for the "progressives."

The Republicans have it easier since they want government out of everything. They don't have to get anything through.

911 also gave them a big opportunity. Their voters gave them six fucking years and STILL support them even though they failed, in Republican terms. they never stay home and never publicly trash elected Republicans.

That is why progressives will never ever get what they want. They can't hang around long enough and keep at it long enough. They stay home and nurse their "disappointment."

[DrDan]

15. the health care bill was not good enough for 2/3 of the voters

there is nothing progressive nor liberal about that bill (well - except for more coverage). Just a corporate gift.

The R'd don't have to get anything through? Guess you missed the last Presidential election. It was a HUGE D victory because of where the R's took us - economically, scocially and around the world.

[PassingFair]

16. That botched bill is not good enough for ANYONE.

Progressives VOTE. Don't doubt it.

And we would NEVER vote for a Republican.

What progressives WON'T do happily, is send money
or phonebank for a shitty candidate who
doesn't promote progressive values.

You can be sure that the phone bankers
for Coakley were progressives that had
no choice but to muscle into the office
and dial at the last minute.

If you're so into lock-step support for
your "team", perhaps you would be more
comfortable with the crowd that doesn't
ask questions.

[euphoria12leo]

18. No blame

But what do progressives have to offer? I'm interested in knowing how do you plan to win elections? Do you think you can knock off some Blue Dogs? I know most of you don't want this president. So what's next? Oh, since we don't stick together I guess next we'll have a Republican president. That will certainly work out, hmmm.

[DrDan]

19. so let me see if I understand your post - you want progressives to

vote for the D's and expect nothing in return? A crappy health reform bill, more war, corporate croneyism. This is suppose to invigorate the progressives to vote?

oh yeah - I forgot to add the threat of "not sticking together." . . . In not doing so, we could end up with a Republican in the WH leading to no healthcare reform, more war and corporate croneyism.

At least when the evangelical Christians were being courted by the R's, they were rewarded with some SCOTUS judges that will provide some rulings in their favor.

hmmmm - did I capture the essence of your post?

[euphoria12leo]

20. I said what plan do progressives have?

I don't want you to vote for a damn thing. So no you didn't capture the essence of my post. Do what you do best. And now there is no health care bill at all. I thought helping some people was better than nothing. I guess you know best.

[DrDan]

24. thought it was pretty obvious

deliver some change to the current way of doing things in Washington.
get us out of the debacles in the ME.
get us moving toward some "real" healthcare reform.
begin to correct some of the faults in our infrastructure.
improve the economy - for the citizens.
put some curbs on out-of-control lobbyists.

Wasn't that what we voted for a year ago or so?

Had some of this been delivered, then perhaps we would have had a basis for a campaign.

What do we get. Any of the above . . . well no - but if all "stick together", we can begin our program of compromise and bipartisanship and move forward for the good of all . . .

[euphoria12leo]

25. Well then Progressives can get candidates to get the job done.

Because the President isn't getting the job done fast enough. It's so easy he should have gotten it done sooner. Just pull out of the war in the ME now. Skull fracture some of those Blue Dogs to get good hc reform. Well it doesn't look like health care reform is going to happen. As far as everything else you mentioned I'm sure progressives can get it done. So I guess you'll give me an answer about the winning strategy. I didn't ask what needs to be done. I know what needs to happen. The :sarcasm: you add about Democrats sticking together which is what I suggested. Then don't, I don't give a shit if that's the attitude of others fine with me. But this country will never be progressive, period.

[DrDan]

27. it is certainly not going to become progressive if there is not progress

after the voters turn out.

Speeches will not do it.
Promises will not do it.

Results.

[euphoria12leo]

32. You're right it sure will not be progressive. n/t

[leftynyc]

28. If President Obama had shown

there was something, ANYTHING, he would fight for, people would respect that. Instead, he's made deals with the insurance/pharma companies and given up every progressive ideal without a whimper in the vain hope that the pukes would cooperate. Why fight for him when there is no indication he's fighting for us.

[leftynyc]

26. I think you're wrong

The problem with HCR is not that the progressives are unsatisfied (although they are), it's because everyone saw the giveaways to the ins/pharma companies and getting nothing in exchange - it's a problem of populism during a recession. It is perceived that the stimulus/TARP money ONLY went to save the bankers (nothing for those in foreclosure or near it), the HCR bill is perceived as a givewaway to the rich insurance companies. The progressives and moderates are getting NOTHING. Combine this with a President who doesn't seem to have any fight in him and you get what happened in MA.

[euphoria12leo]

31. According to some this President hasn't done anything to help

the American people. So save it no matter what happens you're not satisfied. I've heard it all before about the stimulus/tarp, bank give aways, etc., You know what has occurred to me I've been fighting along with everyone else for hc reform. I don't like the way the bill turned out but if it will help some people I wanted it to happen. Then I thought about it. Hell I have health care. Most of my family are in or have been in the military. What the heck am I fighting for if others don't see that the bill might help some people? I should give up. It has become too stressful.

I guess I was fighting because I care about others. Like I said before if you don't want to support the President fine with me. If Democrats want to run a candidate against him that's ok too. If you think the President doesn't have any fight in him, ok. However, I thought we were going to help him fight not fight against him. But, carry on we'll be just fine.

[leftynyc]

33. You're fighting, I'm fighting

You know who is not fighting? President Obama and the Dem leadership. Instead of kicking ass, they're giving Joe Lieberman a chairmanship while he shits all over the Dems, they're kissing up to Olympia Snowe and getting slapped in the face in return. I'm in the same boat as you. I have health care and if I lost my job tomorrow, I'd still be able to afford health care - I'm also fighting because it's the right thing to do. Could you tell me ONE progressive ideal this President has fought for?

[euphoria12leo]

34. We can have this argument all day

and it won't do any good. I liked the idea of single payer, myself. But it was out from the beginning. My senator is a Blue Dog she was for the public option and then against it. I have no use for Joe Lieberman and I thought Reid said he was the least of his worries. Not true. But if you're going to blame the President then blame the leadership. We can agree on that much. Nelson started the wave and the President said we'll go around you, he didn't. He should have but the rest of the Blue Dogs started barking too. Hell maybe Obama should have written the bill himself. I thought handing it to the House and Senate was the right thing to do. The President has not fought for progressive ideals and that's that. IMO it just will not work. Like I said some of us don't agree with Progressives and the all or nothing scenario. But since we're so divided I'm done. My family, friends and people I met along the way have tried to help and I guess they're done too. We organized house meetings, job, some did church and all.

Well that's it. Unless I rethink this.

[Soylent Brice]

14. because republicans are stupid fucking sheep and only want

what they are told they need, and blindly believe anything their leadership force feeds them.

they back every stupid piece of shit legislation, legislation by the way - that damn near destroyed the entire country.

you want lockstepping sheep voters, then GO BE A FUCKING REPUBLICAN.

who the FUCK are you to be blaming this on PROGRESSIVES!?!?!?!

the most ASININE post i have read all morning.

[TankLV]

21. Oh you fucking asshole -

Keep attacking us - and expect us to support you...

[donheld]

36. +1

[BR_Parkway]

30. Interesting, because it seems like the progressives were the ones sounding

the alarms early on (actually, it was mostly us gay folks) and they(we) got told to sit down and shut up, there hadn't been enough time, all we wanted was our sparkly ponies.


“If the Democrats run for cover, if we become pale carbon copies of the opposition, we will lose — and deserve to lose. The last thing this country needs is two Republican parties.” Ted Kennedy

The Democratic base didn't get mobilized for more of the same, the younger folks didn't sign on for more of the same, we didn't turn historically red states blue for more of the same

NJ, VA, now MA (which should have been next to impossible to lose) - what's it going to take for DC to understand that they don't work for the lobbyists, they work for the ones who sent them there. There was nothing that Congress or the Administration has done that they could rally either their base or the independents around.

And yet, both inside and out of DU, there's that streak of "well, it's the progressives fault and the solution is to compromise even more with the Republicans (ala Barney Frank already this morning) - they still haven't gotten it - if we wanted Republicans up in DC, we'd send them there. Or sit home. But the worst thing is to send Dems up there only for them to act like Republicans.

[elocs]

2. So, that makes you feel better but how does that help win elections?

:shrug:

[Splinter Cell]

5. Well...

It doesn't seem any worse then what everybody else around here is doing as far as winning elections.

[elocs]

6. So, you know what "everybody" else around here is doing as far as winning elections? n/t

[Splinter Cell]

7. Bitching mostly.

For about 2/3 of DU that's all they do.

[ShortnFiery]

3. and the Corporate Democrats who kiss their asses in the name of "bipartisanship." eom

[depakid]

12. Too bad we haven't been able to get the administration and Democratic leaders on boards with that

We wouldn't be having this conversation.

[zbdent]

17. Not with Rush Limbaugh's

Dominican Republic boy-boinking d*ck and a box of Viagra ...

[Xenotime]

22. Agreed.

[HillGal]

23. Stop it! you're looking for a scapegoat

I have no doubt that progressives turned out to vote, when it's broken down you'll see young people didn't turnout as they did in 2008, and a minority community who was excited to vote in 2008 but not so much this election, add to that moderate independents who bolted.

[slackmaster]

29. Party membership is one of my lowest priorities when I choose a candidate

It's way down, almost as low as gender, race, and sexual orientation.

Voting party line is the lazy way.

K&U

:kick:

[Splinter Cell]

37. ?

Which is why you have the democratic donkey in your sig?

[slackmaster]

41. Let me help you out here...

The donkey is an animated smiley. That one is often used when someone is "kicking" a thread back to the top of the stack by posting a reply.

:kick:

My sig is the text below that.

[Splinter Cell]

42. Feel better?

Now that you've posted a smug reply, you could actually answer the original point I made.

For somebody that doesn't support a party, it's funny that you throw around the democratic mascot.

[slackmaster]

44. I feel that voting party line is a lazy way to pick candidates

I vote on issues, experience, and character. Most of the time, that ends up being the Democratic candidate.

I've been a registered Democrat since 1976, when I turned 18. The party platform has never at any given time been in complete agreement with my position on every conceivable issue.

If the better of two candidates for a particular position happens to be a Republican, that has never stopped me from voting for him or her.

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

I don't trust the party bosses to work in my best interests. Nor do I blindly trust any candidate sporting a "D" after his or her name.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Please read my actual .sig, below. It explains my politics pretty well.

[Splinter Cell]

45. I understand your point.....

The party platform isn't always 100% in sync with my views either, but the GOP is always 100% in sync with what's wrong with the country imo.

[slackmaster]

46. I have on occasion been given a choice between a moderate GOPer and a Democrat known to be a crook

That choice is easy for me. I don't vote for crooks, and I am leery of incumbents and heirs apparent.

[Cha]

35. Good call! They got a fucker in who believes in torture..

stupid fucks.

[FrenchieCat]

38. Sounds about right.

[Xipe Totec]

39. Not even drunk

I'd rather fuck a pissed off hedgehog.

Why give them any pleasure?

[Splinter Cell]

40. lol

:rofl:

[LatteLibertine]

43. I'm not happy

with Democrats who are corporatists or lobbyist flunkies either. At least most of them are not; racists, homophobes and sexists like the Republicans.

So while I certainly agree with "Fvck Republicans." I have no love for Democrats who are sellouts either. Fvck them too.

[ieoeja]

47. Machivellian Progressives defeated Compromising Chess Masters

The progressives have now bet everything on the House being intelligent enough to understand what happened and kill the Senate bill.

They bet everything on the intelligence of House Democrats?!?


Since Senate Republicans will filibuster ANYTHING remotely progressive put forward by the Democrats, we should just recess the House and Senate and go on the campaign trail for the remainder of the year.