I am about to make a few people mad.. so be it.. But being a woman in

[Peacetrain]

elections like Coakley just finished.. you have to work twice as hard as the men. It is NOT fair.. it is a reality.

A few weeks ago, Coakley was up by thirty points.. that is when it is the most dangerous for any canidate.

I am not blaming Coakley, but it is a lesson that we are not learning.

Hillary took a beating in Iowa, because she assumed Iowa was hers.. the polls told her that. There is nothing lazy about Hillary Clinton, and there is nothing lazy about Martha Coakley.

We have never elected a woman to the governorship of Iowa.. never..Massachusetts has never elected a woman senator. These are uphill fights for us as women.

So out of every storm, some silver lining can be found. I am hoping that out of this one we finally get it .. never assume you have won anything (trust me no one wanted Coakley to win more than me!).. and if there has never been a woman, gay person. person of color etc, in the office you are seeking.. you have to work 5 times harder than your opponent. Its not right, its not fair.. its reality

[nightrain]

yep, women and others have to work much harder. see link below

for Cenk's take on why she lost and for recommendations for the future...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTF2Xb6uvAw

[hlthe2b]

1. I agree...

unless you are an ignorant RW former beauty queen...that can appeal to Freeper male lust and insecurities

[Clio the Leo]

2. and you also have to ACTUALLY WORK....

.... LIKE Hillary did and UNLIKE Martha.

You dont have to blame Martha but *I* am.

[Peacetrain]

4. I hear you .. but

when they are telling you that you are 30 points ahead.. even the best of us are apt to sit on our laurels.. especially if the election is three weeks out.

That is the MOST dangerous thing to happen to you.. have that kind of a lead.. then you really do have to hit the bricks and pound on doors to let people know you are appreciative of their support.

She is not the first one to get caught up in that.. but lets hope she is the last

[Clio the Leo]

7. No!

Even the best of us DONT do that ..... the President didn't do that in 2008 and I suspect we could rattle off others who didn't do it either.

I'm not a politician, but I work in a profession where I have to meet sales goals. If I do REALLY well on Sunday, I dont kick back on Tuesday and Wednesday because I could TANK on Saturday. You always have to keep PUSHING until you're done.

I LOVE ya Peacey and the cookie recipe is YUMMY but PLEASE dont make excuses for this woman. She was a boil on our collective butts and I'm glad we're rid of her.

[Peacetrain]

13. Clio, I can't stay mad at anyone longer than 10 minutes..

Not even Coakley.

I can't stay depressed longer than 10 minutes..

I am ready to gear up and get going again.

She is gone, and I am having a little wake for her as it were.. say a few nice things..

And then move on.

That is just me.

[DURHAM D]

3. On the other hand - Hillary Clinton won the MA Presidential primary

by 15 percentage points over Obama.

[Peacetrain]

5. Yes she did.. and as an Obama supporter.. we ASSumed

way too much going into Mass. Its human nature I suspect. But that is really when a candidate is at their most precarious.

[DURHAM D]

9. It was reported on MSNBC last night that Coakley did not even do opposition research.

My chin hit my foot. I would really like to know if that is true.

If it is, that has to be the first time in history that a federal election was run without knowing how your opponent voted and every public comment ever made.

[Peacetrain]

15. That is not good..

[monmouth]

6. If Coakley had worked one-quarter as hard as Hillary did, she would

most likely have won. I often wondered if HC was on RedBull all day. She was tireless, always looked great and was always, always prepared. Martha should have taken a page out of HRC's book, she failed big time.

[DevonRex]

21. I think so too. I think the tradition of Democratic Senators has been such a long one

that Coakley felt she had it in the bag. Then came the nekkid man-child who knew baseball.

[karynnj]

48. True - but it is mostly TWO MEN, both unusually strong politicians

If you look at the Senators before JFK and EMK, it was at least as Republican as Democratic. When JFK (and then EMK) came in the other Senator was Republican, Saltinstall, who served from 1945 to 1967. He was replaced by Republican Ed Brooke who served from 1967 to 1979. Paul Tsongus followed from 1979 to 1985 and Kerry has been there since.

The fact is that there were times where the country's move would have defeated a lesser politician - even in MA. Reagan won both times. Kerry won his first election, in spite of the Reagan landslide, in a hard fought campaign. Kerry also faced the most popular Republican in at least the last 40 years - Weld and won. Imagine someone less good at debating - Weld likely would have won. Unless he ran and won the Presidency in 2000, he clearly would have survived in 2002 and would have remained a Senator until at least 2008 - when he could have opted to run and either won or lost the Presidency.

Had this happened and Weld was, on paper, the more likely winner, MA could have had divided rule in the Senate for more than half of Kenendy's 47 years.

[Beacool]

42. Yep, she has more stamina than women half her age.

Believe me, I was there for some of it and I still can't believe that the woman can function with so little sleep. She would even show up in factories when it was still dark outside to shake hands with the people going to work the early shift (OH comes to mind). The Clintons always practiced retail politics and never forgot Tip's motto: all politics is local. Bill to this day will shake every hand proffered to him and has to be almost forcibly dragged away by his staff (that's one reason why he's perpetually late to everything). LOL!!

Coakley was a poor campaigner.

:shrug:

[spiritual_gunfighter]

55. +1

Coakley was a piss poor candidate she took her lead for granted, she couldn't be bothered with getting out among the people, she committed gaffes and according to on Dem leader on the ground "went on vacation". Hillary won Mass. she worked hard, Coakley did not.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

8. This same thing applies to blacks.

We can give Bush and the Repukes 8 years to royally fuck things up but we can't give Obama a full year to repair the damage that Bush and Repukes created?

This is also about being a Democrat. Would the media ever tolerate a Democratic woman behaving like Sarah Palin?

Would society ever tolerate a Democratic candidate who behaved like Bush and mangled the English language?

Would this society ever tolerate Mike Malloy, Rachel Maddow, Randi Rhodes or Keith Olbermann for the vile that comes out of Rush Limpballs mouth?

Would this society ever tolerate Democrats suggesting that Republicans wanted to "kill grandma," or that Republicans are "terrorists," don't care about the country and are immoral? It would never be tolerated if Dems behaved like Repukes.

So, yes, as a black woman, we have to work 5 times as hard as white men. But I also think that if we were Republicans, our behavior wouldn't matter. Look at how they tolerate Steele's buffoonery.

[treestar]

16. So true

So true. Maybe it is partly the internet age with 24/7 online commentary, but Bush was under that too. And none of his alleged supporters threw him under the bus within one year. I recall that commentary or cartoon saying something like "shittiest job in the universe given to black man." Why doesn't Obama get 8 years to do things? Who knows what he could have built on with the HCR bill.

[euphoria12leo]

43. Black man gets worst job in the world.

note: *he gets one year to fix it* if not he's out. Obama's supporters (so they say) want him out and we know how the Republicans feel.

[TheKentuckian]

10. True and unfortunately Martha apparently didn't even work half as hard

and whoever let her be at a pharma fundraiser on the "eve" of an election to be the 60th vote for health care reform is plainly stupid or insane.

I'm sorry but Coakley can only be seen in a few ways-stupid, lazy, incompetent, or beyond arrogant. How could anyone take off more or less for three weeks out of country in a race this short? She sat on her hands and allowed her opponent to define his self in a vacuum as well as to frame her and was hesitant about getting out and asking people for their votes.

Your point is a very important one but Martha Coakley is hardly solid evidence to it's validity because she sat on her lead and from most reports didn't work the electorate. Its difficult to make much of a case about having to overcome adversity when the subject in question actually did less than the normal and expected effort.

Man, woman, straight, gay, black, white, asian, or native you have to actually put in at least the average effort to claim you were held back. I'd say it is safe to say that Teddy worked harder as a white male five time incumbent than Martha did when trying to break through the glass ceiling.

[ShortnFiery]

11. Oh please, this is a new low. Don't go there ... respect yourself. eom

[Peacetrain]

14. See post 13.. and I respect myself just fine thank you very much..

:rofl:

[ShortnFiery]

22. During the late 70s, I was with groups of the first women officers integrated ...

into the Regular Army.

Sorry, IMO, you disrespect yourself as well as all independent career women when you decide to post these "Pity Party" threads.

Why? It accomplishes NOTHING and only serves to ostracize the "delicate" male of the species. :evilgrin:

But WTH, to each her/his own.

[Peacetrain]

33. Oh for the love of GOD..

You have a wild hair because I point out women, have to work harder to get into offices that have never been held by women before?

whew.. ooooookkkkkaaaayyyyy

You must have had a different reality that I had to live.

[ShortnFiery]

40. You really don't get dry and/or glib humor? Gee, I thought that I was the only one

to "go off" half-cocked.

Welcome to the "fiery" club SISTER! :hi:

[Peacetrain]

47. Who me.. go off half cocked..

Nah.. say it ain't so.. :rofl: that really is the problem with internet communications.. the inflections we put in our voices to give meaning to something is not there. SO SORRY.. :hi:

[ShortnFiery]

57. Not a problem.

We need to come together over a need to help "all wage-level Americans" realize a dignified standard of living.

If we can help accomplish the above, we can become a FUNCTIONAL party that stands for American Social Justice once more. :toast:


http://iheartdaily.typepad.com/.a/6a00e553a9bcad88330120a527f390970b-800wi

[harkadog]

12. Maybe you shouldn't go on vacation in the middle of a short campaign.

That might have more to do with it than being a woman. She is not lazy? Maybe someone should tell her if you are not lazy you don't complain about standing outside in the cold and shaking hands with the voters.

[seaglass]

17. Do you know how often a Senate seat opens up in MA?

How many women have run against Kennedy or Kerry, any idea?

[Peacetrain]

18. Not very damned often... 74 was it for Teddy.. I am not sure about John..

[seaglass]

19. JK was elected in '85 TK in '62. Not much opportunity for women senators,

we REALLY don't have a thing in MA against women.

[Peacetrain]

29. I did not say that Massachutes had anything against women.. I said it was hard.. Besides Swift

how many female governors have you had (she was a republican)? We have had zero in Iowa.. I think only Mississippi is the other state to have no female governors.. and Tsongas was elected in a special election to fill her husbands seat.

It is just tougher for women to get elected.. been my experience.

[hileeopnyn8d]

37. Correction: Tsongas was not elected

to fill her husband's seat, he had been dead for 10 years prior and hadn't held that seat since 1979.

[Peacetrain]

38. I thought it was a special election.. well time does wear and tear on the memory

[hileeopnyn8d]

44. It was a special election

after Meehan resigned. I can understand the confusion, there was a lot of hype after the election about it being the seat her husband held.

[Peacetrain]

50. Well there you have it.. I put one and one together and came up with three.. thanks for

clearing that up :hi:

[DevonRex]

20. Agreed. Sad but true. nt

[BeyondGeography]

23. True, which makes her performance even more appalling

Hard as that is to conceive.

[quantass]

24. Coakley took a vacation instead of campaigning -- Hilary would have been more serious....

I still think Coakley lost because she assumed she would win and took it for granted....I doubt Hilary would have been so smug. So i have no respect for Coakley in that regard. However, your premise that women (and gays, and people of color) do have to work harder to achieve the same level of success as it is a birthright for white men....that is the name of the game....when more people of non-white male pedigree become elected then the field will be leveled...until then start buying coffee bean farms cuz u're going to be up late a lot of nights.

[elocs]

25. But why is this thread in the Presidency forum? I don't get the connection.

:shrug:

[ShortnFiery]

26. I'm getting the impression that this has a remote connection to "The Glass Ceiling"

that has not been cracked. Mostly few Women CEOs in the Fortune 500, why not the Presidential CEO? :shrug:

[elocs]

28. Because General Discussion would be more fitting. That's what makes it "general"

so you don't have to try and guess the connection.

[ShortnFiery]

32. Sorry. I was trying to make a stab at being magnanimous ...

and, once again, I've failed miserably. :blush:

[Peacetrain]

34. If this is messing up your world.. go talk to the mods about it..

[elocs]

41. Well, you could have simply answered the question, but you're a little touchy about it, aren't you?

Why is that? :shrug:

[LanternWaste]

56. Could be for the same reason...

"but you're a little touchy about it, aren't you? Why is that?"

Might be for the approximately same reason that individuals keep pushing the banality of a post's placement.... :shrug:

[zulchzulu]

27. I agree...

Based on some of the Boston talk radio I listened to prior to the election, there were a fair number of male callers who identified themselves as "democrats who are in unions" who would pretty much admit they couldn't vote for a woman. I'm sure that was a large lot in the voting sector that agreed.

It doesn't help that Coakley was such a bad candidate nor that Hillary Clinton's advisors were telling her it was all but inevitable for her to get the nomination.

A woman running for office has to be "tougher" in many respects perceptually to get credibility. I feel that the first woman President will have had to have had a military background to get "macho" cred.

[JoDog]

30. And you know darn well

That if any woman candidate had posed nude in a men's magazine in her past, she would have no political future.

[Peacetrain]

35. Can you imagine.. we would have had to put a sedative in the water of the right

wing.. it would have been never ending.. "they are wrecking the morals of our youth"..

[ProgressOnTheMove]

31. Yes, I don't get the feeling Caokley did anything wrong or anything any of us would of done.

THis was Kennedy's seat every single one of u here had we run for the seat would of though "slam dunk." I do not blame her she had the credentials and recognition Brown did not. On that basis she had every reason to fell a little confident.

[Better Today]

36. I hate to say it because a lot of what he said last night was crap, but

Chris Matthews hit part of it on the head. Professional women are expected to have a much more "professional" presentation to rise in the professional arenas. But as a politician, she has to come off like a warm mother/grandmother type. It's not an easy leap. That's just regarding the personality aspect, where I can see the argument that women have a harder line to toe.

Otherwise I would say for Coakley, and the circumstances of her campaign; sorry, but if she had even met the "normal" standards of campaigning, she would've done just fine. She didn't come close.

[Beacool]

39. Hillary NEVER assumed that IA was hers.

Furthermore, she was encouraged not to even bother with IA. It was not going to be an easy state for her, but she chose to give it her all anyway.

;-)

[Peacetrain]

49. Iowa is a tough nut Bea.. we have NEVER elected a govenor or congressperson

house or senate who is a woman. I think the only other state that has that sad sad record is Mississippi. Over 50% of the population is women and we cannot get one congressperson.

It sometimes gives me a great big headache.

I will take your word on it, that Hillary did not assume Iowa was a cake walk. But the staff did. They just did not get it, that this is a tough state for women to get elected from.. Beyond tough..

We give glass ceiling a new meaning.

This is a beautiful state.. loving people (with the exception of Steve King and some other republicans)

We are as blue as the deep blue sea, but getting women elected, is like pulling teeth

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

45. Is that why she worked twice as hard taking a vacation yesterday?

[pansypoo53219]

46. um, she seemed a pretty lame candidate to me.

and she lost to a pretty boy. mass seems to love bad democrat candidates(kerry, dukakis). was there a primary? of course brown is a stealth turd. but same thing happened in WI. good long seat heat by a gret democrat taken by a turd. shit happens.

[Sebastian Doyle]

51. I'm not exactly Hillary's biggest fan

But there's no question she campaigned to the finish line, and fought dirty. A little too dirty at times, perhaps, with all that Mark Penn bullshit and surrogates like Ferraro going off the rails with the racist crap. Point being, she was in like a goddamn pit bull until the end.

I wasn't impressed with Coakley either, but she didn't put up a fight at all. While the memory of Ted Kennedy and the people of Massachusetts deserved better, I can't honestly say she deserved to win.

[Cha]

53. Ironic, bc brown supposedly "worked hard"

to win the election but will he work hard for the People of Mass?

[Sebastian Doyle]

58. Well, he'll probably work hard for SOME of the "people" of Mass.

BAIN Capital, for example. :puke:

[NYC_SKP]

52. I fully agree.

A woman couldn't have gotten away with the centerfold thing or get props for posing by a pick-up truck.

While there are other factors, it's never a level playing field for a woman running against a man.

:patriot:

[krabigirl]

54. And Mass doesn't have a great record of electing women...or people who aren't into sports.