Change, hard or easy?

[ProSense]

Poll question: Change, hard or easy?

[IndianaGreen]

1. If you want real change, we must do what the French and the Russians did

and topple the oligarchs.

[treestar]

4. Overdramatic much?

Heck, I criticize this country, but it's nowhere near that miserable.

[Name removed]

2. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[treestar]

3. It is hard and Obama told us he needed us to support it

He did not say quit after one year.

[timeforpeace]

5. Other Presidents have managed it. He might also.

[ProSense]

6. I think the list of things Obama is tackling is a lot longer than most Presidents in recent history

(snipped for copyright purposes-proud patriot Moderator Democratic Underground)


much longer. This is just the ACLU's list:

THE ACLU'S DAY-ONE RECOMMENDATIONS
Original individual recommendations Evaluation Result
TORTURE AND GUANTANAMO
Torture and Abuse
1. The president should issue an executive order, on the first day in office, that orders all agencies to take immediate steps to ensure that torture and abuse is prohibited by the federal government – On January 22, 2009, his second full day in office, President Obama issued an executive order that fulfilled some but not all of our requests (see lettered items below).
The EO ordered the CIA to shut down its detention facilities "as expeditiously as possible," and forbade the CIA from operating any such facilities in the future.
Notwithstanding the executive order, however, reports of abuse continue. It is unclear what steps the President or the agencies have taken to ensure effective oversight of the new rules on interrogation.
edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/ pdf/ E9-1885.pdf
www.aclu.org/ national-security/ president-obama-orders-guantanamo-closed-and-end-torture
a. that no agency may use any practice not authorized by the Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogations, Yes
b. that no president or any other person may order or authorize torture or abuse, Yes
c. that all violations of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions are prohibited, Yes
d. that all persons being held overseas must be registered with the International Committee of the Red Cross in conformity with Defense Department practices, and The administration has ordered that detainees be registered with the Red Cross within 14 days, according to multiple sources. However, no written policy has been made public, and there have been reports that the policy is not being followed consistently in the field. www.nytimes.com/2009/11/29/world/ asia/ 29bagram.html Yes*
e. that all intelligence interrogations must be video recorded. President Obama did not order interrogators to videotape interrogations; however, Congress passed, and the President signed into law, legislation requiring the videotaping of most intelligence interrogations.
See section 1080: http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/ cgi-bin/ getdoc.cgi?dbname=111_cong_bills& docid=f:h2647enr.txt.pdf Yes*
2. The president should order all agencies to comply with requests from Members of Congress for unredacted copies of documents related to the development and implementation of U.S. interrogation policies. No such order has been issued. Based on meetings with key congressional offices, it appears that the Obama administration has provided more documents, and with fewer redactions, to Congress. However, important documents continue to be withheld from the public. No
3. The attorney general should appoint an outside special counsel to investigate and, if warranted, prosecute any violations of federal criminal laws prohibiting torture and abuse – focusing not just on crimes committed in the field, but also on crimes committed by civilians, of any position, in authorizing or ordering torture or abuse. Attorney General Holder appointed a career prosecutor, John Durham, to conduct a "preliminary" review of a select number of detainee-abuse cases. Mr. Durham has not been allowed, however, to conduct a full investigation of all violations of laws prohibiting torture and abuse; nor has the Attorney General indicated any intention to investigate those who authorized and ordered the use of abusive interrogation techniques. www.aclu.org/ human-rights_national-security/ attorney-general-holder-appoint-prosecutor-investigate-torture
Statement of Attorney General Eric Holder Regarding a Preliminary Review into the Interrogation of Certain Detainees www.justice.gov/ag/speeches/ 2009/ ag-speech-0908241.html No*
4. The president should order the immediate closure of all secret prisons, and prohibit the CIA and its contractors from detaining anyone. On January 22, 2009, President Obama issued an executive order requiring the CIA to shut down its detention facilities "as expeditiously as possible" and forbidding the CIA from operating any such facilities in the future. Exec. Order No. 13,491, 74 Fed. Reg. 4,893 (Jan. 22, 2009). edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/ pdf/ E9-1885.pdf
ACLU Statement: www.aclu.org/ national-security/ president-obama-orders-guantanamo-closed-and-end-torture Yes
5. The president should rescind any conflicting previous orders – none of which have been made public and remain secret to this day. On January 22, 2009, President Obama issued an executive order rescinding interrogation advice given by the Department of Justice between September 11, 2001 and January 20, 2009. edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/ pdf/ E9-1885.pdf Yes
Guantanamo

[timeforpeace]

11. Won't resonate with voters. You ask for the job, they expect you to get it done, no whining.

[cbayer]

13. ProSense

Please be aware that our rules require that you limit the reposting of copyrighted material to four paragraphs or less with a link.

Thanks,

cbayer
DU Moderator

[ProSense]

14. Oops, sorry.

I considered it an organization's press release.

[TheKentuckian]

7. Other: It's really hard and that's why one must be relentless to bring it

It also takes some sort of plan aside from capitulating and hoping for the good in folks to come out.

[ProSense]

8. "aside from capitulating " Guess what

every group thinks the President is capitulating to some other group.

It's friggin ridiculous. This country has been screwed up for decades, he can't fix it in a friggin year.

[TheKentuckian]

12. There are only two "groups" the haves and have nots

which side are you on?

Are you for the corporations or the people?

Which side are you on?

[Bluenorthwest]

9. the difficulty matters not, Change is a constant

The only thing permanent is change. It happens constantly, without so much as a moment's respite. What our current problem is is that we are allowing the direction of the change to remain unaltered for many long years now. Change, you see, it is like a river, it is going to happen, going to flow, and we can not end that flow, but we are able to direct it and control it, at times even reverse it.
Hard, easy, those are questions for pikers, not for those who would direct the course of rivers or events. "I was going to live, but it was too hard." That is not my way of things. It is yours, the excuse making path. Camino del Whiners.

[YvonneCa]

10. Problem is, the 'change' and the necessity to do so...

...have not been clearly defined. Everyone has a different idea of what the 'change' is that Obama promised. Republicans want their own version of change...and tack it on to Obama's promise and chastise him for not delivering. Progressives do the same, as do DLCers and every other political group.

I do not blame President Obama for this lack of clarity. Heaven knows, the spinners have been working overtime to muddy things up. But I DO think it is time for Obama to SPELL IT OUT,including the 'whys'. I am pretty sure 'Change we can believe in' is NOT the Republican definition. :) But...on the Democratic side...it's less clear.

As to the poll, I voted that I knew it would be hard and I KNOW he is trying. :patriot: