How is it possible to take Obama seriously as a President when he's pi$$ing $57K/minute on wars?

[brentspeak]

Completely, absolutely, stupendously useless and pointless wars: http://www.costofwar.com/ (Thanks to DUers for the link).

[ShortnFiery]

1. It's difficult to impossible considering that the billions spent on death and destruction

are NOT making Americans safer at home or abroad. Just expanding our geopolitical influence in order to enrich the companies which comprise the Military Industrial Complex.

We need to find another RACKET besides WAR-MONGERING lest we, sooner rather than later, bring an end to our species. :(

[VMI Dem]

2. The Bush Doctrine is alive and thriving.

[elocs]

3. War... it's what we do. n/t

[Arctic Dave]

4. Couldn't agree more. Until he cuts the military budget he is no more then a clown.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

5. I know

Republicans are pushing him to spend money on war.

[golfguru]

14. And I thought we had the majority in congress!

who would have thunk the minority party has so much clout!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

21. When they get the majority they don't do anything

Maybe Cheney doesn't let them

[amborin]

6. and,as a mod points out, that's only partial Afghanistan costs!

[MannyGoldstein]

7. But He's Cutting Social Programs - What More Do You Want?

Sheesh!

[JVS]

10. If those poor and old people want money, let them join the military!

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. It isn't so I don't. nt

[JoePhilly]

9. Did you not listen him as a candidate??????????????

1) Said he'd get us out of Iraq in 16 months ... looks like it will be 19 months ... oh ... the horror!!!!

2) Said he would ADD troops to Afghanistan. He has. Said he'd increase focus there ... he has.

Did we sleep through this?????

[JVS]

11. Holding to those plans is impractical, as they were created when we thought we could afford wars.

We can't, and it is ideological idiocy to keep pursuing these expensive wars.

[JoePhilly]

19. Did he run on these positions .... yes, or no?

[JVS]

22. Should he change positions to reflect reality? Yes or no?

[JoePhilly]

31. What "reality" are you talking about?

He said out of Iraq in 16 months ... its going to be about 19 months. That's reality.

He said we needed to increase focus in Afghanistan ... I agreed with him as a candidate ... and I still agree with him now that he is doing EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID HE'D DO. That is reality.

[Bragi]

35. How many voted for Obama because of his escalate the war policy?

I'd say it was close to zero.

People voted for him DESPITE his unwise plan to escalate the Afghan war, not because of it.

[avaistheone1]

49. I did polling arounding this issue and you are correct.

Obama was voted into office to get the U.S. out of Iraq,

and not to get the U.S. into Afghanistan. U.S. involvement in Afghanistan was unpopular during the campaign as it is now.



And it remains to be seen if Obama will actually will be getting us out of Afghanistan in August, if all he does is replace military with contractors like Xe paid for by U.S. taxpayers. That is just bait and switch. Nothing will have changed.

[Bragi]

38. Hey Joe, go vote

So far my poll suggests no-one here voted for Obama because of his promise to escalate the Afghan war.

You could be the first!

Go to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x154723

[ShortnFiery]

12. Newsflash: We will not leave Iraq in 19 months. It's going to BLOW UP again.

Just as soon as we are unable to bribe the Sunnis, they will reignite their CIVIL WAR.

There will be Civil War, with or without the USA supporting the tin pot dictator side.

[golfguru]

15. Yemen is next n/t

[TheWraith]

18. We're leaving. Embrace reality and get used to it.

We are literally on the way out the door right now. Troops and equipment are leaving the country. That takes time, but it's not something we're waiting to do. It's happening RIGHT NOW. There was a news story the other day about the last Marines in country ending their active role and getting ready to leave.

[avaistheone1]

50. Not really.

Bet you this war will continue, only at that point being fought by contractors like Xe etc. The U.S. taxpayers will continue to hold the bag, and our economy will continue down the toilet as everything is spent on war,war,war,war,and more war. The hate for America will ramp up based on the presence and activities of our mercenary/contractors conducting war in our name.

[brentspeak]

20. So he bragged about escalating a pointless war?

You sure showed me!

[amandabeech]

52. I did not know that the Pentagon puts 100 Al Quaeda in Afghanistan.

My view of the Afghan war has pivoted nearly 180 degrees since that little factoid came out.

Unfortunately, Obama wants to waste lives and treasure fighting the Taliban, which is not universally supporting Al Q.

Biden was right--special forces can handle this now.

If we need to go back in, we will. The Afgans will still be there.

[Cali_Democrat]

13. Obama campaigned on continuing the war in AfPak

Somebody obviously wasn't paying attention.

[Skittles]

32. LOL

so, because Obama was wrong then, it must be supported now?

[Cali_Democrat]

44. Of course not

The war is a disaster. Where did I say that we should support the war?

[Skittles]

45. you're saying people cannot even bitch about the war

because we should have known he would not end it - yeah we know it sucked then and WE KNOW IT SUCKS NOW

[Cali_Democrat]

47. People can bitch all they want....it's they're right

I'm all for bitching. :hi:

The issue I have with the OP is saying that he can't take Obama seriously. When a President says he's going to continue the bloodshed in Afghanistan and he does, you better take him seriously next time.

[Bragi]

36. So what were antiwar people to do?

I think most people who voted for Obama DID NOT support his policy of escalating the war in Afghanistan.

I think they voted for him DESPITE this unwise policy commitment.

And for the few who somehow decided to go with Obama because they were enthusiastic about escalating this pointless war, I suspect their support for more war may be diminished now that it is clear the US can no longer afford such wars.

[Cali_Democrat]

48. There's not much the antiwar people can do right now

Both major parties support the wars. Antiwar protests obviously don't work because the media ignores them and adores the teabaggers.

It sucks.

[zulchzulu]

16. Ah, if only life was like a video game...

Obama inherited two wars. Do you think wars just end by flicking the lights off?

I thought you were smarter than that.

:hi:

[TheWraith]

17. +1000. Some people here border on the delusional.

Even as the reports roll in of troops leaving Iraq, including the last of the Marines, they insist that Obama is somehow magically continuing the war.

[JVS]

23. You can call it over when they're all back. Until then it isn't over.

[zulchzulu]

24. Are you outraged troops are still in Kosovo?

They are still there. And (whispering) there will be troops in Iraq and Afghanistan 20 years from now. Shhh... don't tell anybody.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

26. Tell that to the combat troops stationed in Europe ever since WWII

Reality. What a fabulous concept.

[jonnyblitz]

25. yeah nothing going on in Afghanistan.

:sarcasm:

[Bragi]

40. Hey Wraith, go now to vote for more war!

So far my poll suggests no-one here voted for Obama because of his promise to escalate the Afghan war.

You could be the first!

Go to:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x154723

[tallahasseedem]

27. Thank you!

Rational thinking...come get you some!

[brentspeak]

28. So now wars are ended by escalating them and attaching no-deadline withdrawals?

And if a Commmander-in-Chief says, "Let's get out of there," are the troops going to refuse the order? That's how a useless war is ended: the order is given, then everyone leaves. It really is that simple.

[Skittles]

33. naw, we figured he'd end them by escalating them

[Writer]

29. How is it possible to take breatspeak seriously as a Democrat when he's pissing on Obama 57K times?

:shrug:

[Fire1]

55. BINGO, DAMMIT!! LOL! SLAM DUNK!! n/t

[asdjrocky]

30. Hey there now, take it easy!

He's going to make up for it spending cuts and freezing domestic programs.

New memo: Not all cuts are bad cuts.

[Tippy]

34. Iraq and Afghanistan are BUSH's Wars

Now President Obama has to clean up the mess bush left behind...It's not easy to stop a war...no spigot to turn it off...makes me mad when people act like they thought the President should just call our troops home...We live in the real world not some video game type world...We have a responsibility to the troops on the ground, to those waiting to be deployed and to every soldier who gave his life for Bush's war. I the violence had not escalated, through no fault of President Obama Withdrawal would have begun by now, or at least plans to do so would be on the table...

[ShortnFiery]

37. NO, it's easy to stop a war. STOP and withdraw the combat troops.

Afghanistan is a tribal area and will always have conflict if not Civil War.

It's not our place to prop up an illegitimate tin pot dictator who, in essence, only hold control over the concentrated population centers.

STOP! War is over ... if you want it. :thumbsup:

[harun]

39. +1

[phleshdef]

41. Naive and irresponsible.

For one, no you don't just stop and pull out. Trying to abruptly pull out of a war when you have a multitude of troops and equipment is actually dangerous to the troops. There isn't a credible military mind alive that would disagree with that. And whether you like it or not, its OUR responsibility to cleanly remove ourselves from any given country we are occupying and leave behind some sort of manageable security infrastructure. Its the least we could fucking do after just charging in and knocking the existing government out of commission.

[ShortnFiery]

42. You're not old enough to remember Vietnam?

We left after we we're KICKED-OUT. :shrug:

Occupations don't work.

[proteus_lives]

46. Kicked-out?

I re-writing history is popular.

[TheKentuckian]

43. It is nearly pure pissing money onto gravel and sand.

I can take him seriously as President reckon but it damn sure is business as usual but so silly that they barely bother to pretend the conflicts even have a real security purpose.

[andym]

51. For reference, single payer would cost 3.8 million dollars per minute

The CA nurses study estimate that HR676 would cost 2 trillion dollars a year. Divide by 365 days, the 24 hours and 60 minutes and one gets $3,805,175/minute. That's more than 50 fold the cost of wars.

Should the wars end ASAP? I believe so. Are there better uses for the money? Of course.

But spending by the govt is relative and it is useful to understand the scale.

[brentspeak]

54. Read the CA nurses study again: it said that the CURRENT system costs $2.1 trillion/year

http://www.calnurses.org/research/pdfs/ihsp_sp_economic_study_2009.pdf

In any case, a single-payer system would largely pay for itself, so a comparison with military spending is erroneous.

[andym]

56. And they say that the new program will cost 63 billion more than current costs

From the report:
"XII. Conclusion
This study demonstrates that a comprehensive Medicare based Single Payer system can make significant
contributions to access of quality care for all US residents and in the process generate a much needed
and very substantial economic stimulus in the form of jobs, enhanced business and public revenues and
increased wages for the population at large.

All this comes at a relatively modest increase in net costs of $63 billion. "

"Net" means add 63 billion to the 2.1 trillion current costs. The big savings come in changes to the indirect costs.

The purpose of this post is to put the costs in perspective.

[dionysus]

53. awwww, brent's being a bitter sod again...

:rofl: