Chris Matthews, you are not a joke anymore. You are a racist.

[Cleita]

He said, "I forgot he was black for an hour." Then he carried on. I was shocked. :wow:

Matthews might as well have said, "I forgot he wasn't a superior human being (Aryan) for an hour."

I can't even call him Tweety anymore.

[KaryninMiami]

1. I heard that too- what the hell was that all about?

I was in shock--- could not believe my ears.

[goclark]

I was in shock ~ I just stood there shaking my head

but he just kept at it ~ saying something about White People.

By that time my body went into shock ` it was so out of the Blue- he could not stop talking.

[Cleita]

45. They cut to Keith and Rachel while he was ranting?

They were grinning but in total shock. I could tell they didn't believe what he was saying either.

[JaneQPublic]

80. I thought it was out of the blue, too, until I realized...

...that directly before Tweety's rant, Keith had mentioned "Rachel," (as in Maddow) and immediately afterwards, Tweety began yammering about "racial," as if he was responding to a question on that topic.

At least that's me trying to make sense out of one of the most bizarre moments in TV punditry.

[Hello_Kitty]

2. Seriously. WTF. eom

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. WHAT!

And to think that some writer in Florida called Chris Matthews a liberal the other day.

[Jackeens]

4. Seriously, did he say "I forgot he was black for an hour"????

Please, please tell me he didn't??

[Cleita]

8. Seriously, he did.

:-(

[Jackeens]

15. Jesus ****ing Christ.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[DeschutesRiver]

67. Ditto. I am fucking speechless.

[jenmito]

Yup. He's subconsciously racist. He thought he was saying a GOOD thing, when he was

really showing his prejudice.

[Cleita]

29. He was comparing an African American man to a white man.

He was saying this African American man is doing what a white man would. I can't think of it as anything otherwise.

[jenmito]

58. It's like he was saying, "I forgot that he wasn't 'one of us'."

He often talks about Obama not connecting with the "common" guy.

[kstewart33]

38. My, are you his therapist? You must be his therapist. Tell us more!!! nt

[jenmito]

60. Read above.

;)

[goclark]

27. Yes he did say it ~ I think he thought was a compliment to Obama

He must be on some Meds.

[Cleita]

36. He did.

He basically said, "Hey boy. You're just like us."

[treestar]

40. A lot of whites don't realize what they're saying when they say that

They think they mean they are overlooking race or have gotten past it and no longer notice the difference and that means blacks are equal now. But it never gets taken that way and it is a thing you aren't supposed to say. Which the likes of Tweety should know. But Tweety's mouth is in charge of his head.

[goclark]

154. Mouth in charge of his head ~ that's a good one

: )

[wordpix]

100. yes, it was quite jarring & out of place

[Parker CA]

5. He really dug in deep on that one and chose to keep on digging. I was pretty shocked at the

display. Pretty off-putting moment for sure.

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Sounds like Matthews had a Jimmy the Greek moment.

[Thrill]

6. So he's been just seeing the black guy?

[Cha]

50. And, then he forgot he was Black for an hour.

sounds bigoted to me. I didn't see it so I don't know if he meant it that way?

[laureloak]

7. Matthews is a huge, HUGE Obama fan. I'll withhold judgement

for that reason.

[Cleita]

10. Apparently because he's whiter than......?n/t

[laureloak]

22. I don't have a problem with "whiteness", do you?

[Cleita]

39. I happen to be rather white myself, because I'm of

mixed parentage. I have been more accepted by you guys than the other half of me because they are suspicious of me until I speak their language and...then they realize I really am one of them. But believe me I know prejudice and racism when it's smacked in my face.

[elizm]

41. Only depending on the weather...

Chris Matthews is an Obama fan when it works to help his ratings. You obviously don't watch regularly.

[Raineyb]

188. And that Matthews is a "fan" makes his comment less offensive how? n/t

[EmeraldCityGrl]

221. I'm not a fan of Matthews, BUT understand what he was TRYING to say.

Matthews was emotionally moved by Obama's speech and spoke from the heart.

I'm giving him a pass on this one.

[Iris]

9. wtf?

did he really say "Aryan"? or did you add that?

either way, this is outrageous. If the teabaggers got a Mark Fiore cartoon removed from NPR's website, then decent citizens of this country ought to get this guy removed from his tv show.

[Cleita]

12. I added the Aryan.

I put what he actually said in quotes.

[vaberella]

13. Hahahaha!! Heh...when keepin' it REAL goes wrong!! Love it. That goddamned Tweety.

Bless his stupid heart.

[redwitch]

14. I don't think he's racist.

Just odd. And prone to speaking out loud every single thought that his brain is trying to process. Sometimes his filter malfunctions.

[Cleita]

19. I'm sorry. This isn't the filter you need.

It states what he really feels about the rest of President Obama's ethnicity.

[NoSheep]

26. WRONG.

[Raineyb]

190. Cleita is right. YOU are the one who is wrong.

Forgot he was black? Why because he doesn't think a black man can do a good job? Spare me the excuse making.

[laureloak]

32. Agreed.

[Dinger]

16. That Was Stupid As Hell. He Should Be Suspended Or Fired

What a fucking asshole.

[kstewart33]

42. What, for saying what many of us were thinking? OMG....I must be a racist!!! nt

[Dinger]

49. Matthews Could Have Definitely Used A Better Choice Of Words, Don't You think?

?

[kstewart33]

53. Yes, he could have.

But I understand his point and sentiment, as clumsily as it was worded.

It is a difficult sentiment to explain and very few people could do it well spontaneously, as Matthews tried.

[boppers]

82. I forgot she was female?

I forgot he was from the south?

In what way could the sentiment *not* be racism?

[kstewart33]

157. Check out the video posted at 2:42 am by tom2thumbs.

Matthews explains his comment, and Rachel Maddow has no problems with it.

[Raineyb]

192. I don't give a damn how he explains his comment. I saw it and it doesn't do a damn thing

for ME. What he said was racist as hell and he ought to apologize. This half assed explanation doesn't begin to mitigate what he said.

[wordpix]

85. My q is: why bring up race when SOTU was about problems, decisions, solutions we all share?

Is there a difference between a white guy with pre-existing conditions who can't get health insurance or an African-American or Asian-American person in the same boat? Was there anything about race in that speech? I don't recall that.

[Number23]

70. "What, for saying what many of us were thinking?"

Who is "us" and can you explain exactly what it is was that you were thinking?

[spoony]

77. I'd like to hear that as well.

Because I can't imagine anything good, or excusable, it could be.

[JTFrog]

140. Those that said Obama would have to "earn" his nomination

and that the "defeat would be good for him". The ones that claimed Hillary had it wrapped up in January '08. The ones that said we could do worse than McCain as prez....

Being as how said poster has made these remarks here at DU, I can only imagine what "many of us" were thinking. :shrug:

[Number23]

184. Interesting. Thanks for the heads up, JT. Not that I'm all that surprised

And the fact that the poster has deliberately chosen not to respond to the many people who asked him/her to clarify her comments speaks volumes...

[fishwax]

92. What many of us were thinking? Huh? What *were* you thinking

:shrug:

[Matariki]

95. You were thinking that too? That you 'forgot' Obama was black?

what does that even mean?

First of all - he *is* black so why would you 'forget' it.

What it really means is that the speaker finds themselves surprised that they've momentarily forgotten their own prejudices and filters. I guess you should work on extending that for longer periods until it becomes natural. :shrug:

[AspenRose]

166. Well said.

"What it really means is that the speaker finds themselves surprised that they've momentarily forgotten their own prejudices and filters. I guess you should work on extending that for longer periods until it becomes natural."

EXCELLENT.

[JTFrog]

139. That's what you were thinking? That you forgot for an hour he was black.

If that's true, yeah, you need to get a grip on your inner racist.

Period.

[secondwind]

158. I agree...probably a poor choice of words, perhaps Tweety should have said..

I now know what it feels like to NOT see color, or something like that. We are here in the Dominican Republic for the winter....I'd say that over 80% here are black, another 10-15% mixed, and the balance white. When I first came here in 2005, I felt like an alien, surrounded by so many dark faces (they are really nice people!)....but now, I don't "see" color anymore. It is a wonderful feeling.

[Raineyb]

191. You said it. And I'd agree.

You are a racist.

[gateley]

17. I think his comment was that we were all looking at this man who is POTUS --

as opposed to the African American Man who is POTUS -- That he transcended the barrier. And if you don't think that there's still rampant racism in the US, that many people probably were hesitant (because of their age, upbringing, whatever) to have a Black president, I don't think that's being realistic. I think Matthews was saying that Obama has achieved what we all hoped for when it came to race in this country -- color blindness. It was praise.

[DRoseDARs]

31. Indeed. This was just Tweety being the dim man we all know and love/hate.

[Number23]

73. "Color blindness" is neither achievable or noble.

I am a black woman. My blackness and the HISTORY of my blackness are important to me. When someone says to me "your color is not important," they are basically saying "a major way in which you identify yourself is unimportant to me and thus it should be to you as well." It would be far more truthful and helpful if the expression was not "I don't see color" but "I see your blackness and I acknowledge it. But I also see you as an individual and will not lump all of the successes/failures of people who look like you WITH you."

What Chris Matthews said is ridiculous and offensive. It is not admirable and it is not something that people in this country should strive to "achieve" to.

[Kweli4Real]

81. True ...

I suppose the "colorblind" apologists would be equally understanding if PRESIDENT OBAMA had said, "I forgot he/she was gay" or white orwhatever flavor they happen to be.

[Matariki]

97. +1

great post.

[AspenRose]

167. I think that's why Stephen Colbert uses that phrase in his satire role-playing

....the "I don't see color" bit.

Just because MLK said he didn't want his kids to be *judged* based on their color, didn't mean he wanted people to IGNORE their color. Big difference.

"I see your blackness and I acknowledge it. But I also see you as an individual and will not lump all of the successes/failures of people who look like you WITH you."

Well said :-)

[kstewart33]

18. Geez, I was thinking the same thing.....OMG - I'm a racist!!! nt

[NoSheep]

28. Thank you for adding a bit of reason to this thread.

[Raineyb]

193. That's what the fuck you were thinking?

Well you got one thing right. You ARE a racist.

[kstewart33]

209. Well, thank you for pointing that out to me.

Now...oh wait....OMG, now I REALLY know I'm a racist.

How profound of you. Have we met?

[Raineyb]

212. Your words speak for you don't they? Or am I not supposed to judge what I read? n/t

[kstewart33]

214. I know we've met. Where was it?

It must have been at the last KKK meeting in Birmingham. My robe was crimson. What color was yours?

[Name removed]

216. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

230. I don't think so. I don't hang out with Klansman like you do.

I think you know where you can stick your robes.

[jgraz]

20. Ridiculous. Obama's been black for much longer than an hour.

:hide:

[iamjoy]

51. LOL (eom)

[Kind of Blue]

21. That was Beyond Belief!!! n/t

[tularetom]

23. If we're gonna have a shit fit over Harry Reid using the word "negro"

This fucking asshole should be drawn and quartered for such a racist statement.

I realize the stupid shit probably doesn't know any better, but that is no longer an excuse for the network to keep his ugly face on a network where people can see him and listen to his idiotic spittle laden rants any longer.

[treestar]

37. His face doesn't bug me so much as him damn voice!

yadda yadda yadda yack yack yack. He makes my blood pressure go up!

[NoSheep]

24. I would hate to have to have you around my house while we speak the obvious.

That is absolutely not what he meant and if you think that's true you need to get out more. And I won't argue with you about it either. Get a clue. Obama would have laughed his ass off at that. I'm not a huge Tweety fan but I've been around long enough to understand the spirit in which that was stated. I think he was pointing out what every single person should realize who may indeed be a racist. There's no point in it. You're really showing a lack of knowledge about discourse with this post. I think what Tweety did is called STATING THE OBVIOUS. Sorry if that was a bit over your head.

[Cleita]

34. Honestly, if you are so blind not to see how racial this is, we

have a big problem in this country still. I listened to crap like this when I was growing up because I was of mixed parentage, but I looked white enough to be accepted by white people. It's really awful to listen to stuff like this. "We like you because you are different than the rest of your people."

[kstewart33]

47. But you know, I was thinking the same thing and so was my husband.OMG,that must mean we're racists!!

[Number23]

76. You keep admitting "I thought the same thing!!" as if it's something to be proud of!

Why in the world do you find COMFORT in thinking and agreeing with something that is so offensive?

[Name removed]

155. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NoSheep]

59. He was being wry. We live in a country where people are still divided by race.

Right? I think he was saying as a white man, he did not perceive race. He was telling the truth. Isn't that a good thing? I sincerely feel you have read this wrong. Believe me, I sit here tonight typing this as a 46 yr old woman who grew up with racism and essentially divorced my own family because of it. I have lost many people, and I'm glad of it, because I called them on their racist bullshit, but in this case, I just didn't see it. I just thought he was telling the truth. There is SO MUCH to be hurt about that is REAL. I can only assume you have never heard anyone say such a thing while at the same time being completely guileless. But I have. Because I speak openly and truthfully with those I keep company with. If irony abounds, so be it.

Good luck to you. I am sincerely sorry your feelings were hurt. I don't think in this case they had to be. That is my opinion. And I don't much care how "white" or "black" you are.

And finally, I'd like to add, my initial response was because there are so many right wing trolls on this board these days, I honestly assumed you were one. That was how far off the mark I thought your statements were. I thought you were being disingenuous. Now I think I know you are real and you took it the way you did because you may not be familiar with that kind of honesty, but I really do think it was just that and I think it is important that we all learn to hear that.

It is really your OWN interpretation of what he said that suggests he meant "black" was inferior. Pity. Obama is clearly not inferior to anyone. How could you possibly draw that interpretation?

[win_in_06]

146. "Mixed parentage".

Do you mind elaborating? I know plenty of white folks who have a trace of Native American blood in their history, and they claim to be a victimized minority even though they are for all practical purposes, white.

They even go as far to claim minority status on college applications and the like in the hopes of reaping benefits intended for bona fide minorities who are disadvantaged.

I'm not saying this applies to you, but I am curious based on your comments.

[laureloak]

46. Good idea. Let's speak OPENLY about our racial thoughts.

We don't have to mistreat or fully understand each other, but for God's sake let's stop this "walking on eggshells" crap that doesn't solve anything. We've seen this all before - goes like this:

A Mispeak
Accusation of racism
Attempt to Explain
Explaination rebuffed
Admonishment
Apology
Career ruin

[win_in_06]

144. ...and not necessarily in that order

Career ruin is often a done deal right off the bat

[goclark]

56. I'm African American and it was not over my head

The clue is that it was a remark that did not need to be said, it had no importance to the subject.

Did Matthews intend to be mean spirited?
I don't think so but it was not necessary, at all, to the discussion.

If this had been said around the dinner table that is one thing. He was not talking to a group of friends, he was talking to millions of people that he did not know personally.

For a seasoned reporter (and I like Chris) to make a slip like that regarding the Race of the President of the United States was odd.

He needs to take a brush up class on Race Relations.

He also may need to take a vacation .

[OneGrassRoot]

57. +1 n/t

[KaryninMiami]

68. Exactly and very well put; Thank you. eom

[woolldog]

83. am I weird goclark?

His comment just didn't offend me. He was simply making a point about Obama being post-racial and how in that moment the country seemed to have gotten past so much racial baggage and history. When he looks at Obama he doesn't see a "black man", just as when people look at Bush they didn't see a "white man" and that that was a sign of the tremendous progress the country has made.

Is that an offensive sentiment/observation?

Now if you're saying that race didn't need to be brought up by Matthews at all in a state of the union analysis (and that by bringing it up at all he was underming the very point he was making!), then I agree with that. But as for the substance of his comments, I don't find them offensive. Could he have articulated his point better? Probably.

[Cleita]

89. He said nothing about Obama being post racial. He said he forgot

that Obama was black. It's no different than if Hillary had been elected and he forgot she was a woman. I am a woman and if you don't understand the sexism and the total bigotry, then I think you have no self esteem.

[woolldog]

102. He did say Obama was post-racial

for chrissakes I linked the video where he said it.

You seem to be inferring that when Matthews says "I forgot he was black" that he is using "black" as some kind of negative, like he's saying "I forgot he was ugly". But in fact, I see nothing from the context of Matthews comments that suggest that he was using "black" as something negative or pejorative. He was simply admitting to the audience that normally he sees race, but while watching Obama he didn't.

I think the fact that you read what you read into Matthews comments says much more about your self-esteem (and the chip on your shoulder) than it does about mine.

Now I think that celebration of colorblindness is a little naive. But I don't believe it's bigoted to suggest that we can look at an individual outside of the context of race or gender and simply in the context of their job. Whites in this country are looked at outside of the context of their race all of the time. ( I gave the example of people looking at Bush and not seeing him as "white." ) And blacks in majority black regions like Africa or the Caribbean are as well because they are in the majority. If you get a chance to go to some of these regions, I'd highly recommend it. It is enlightening.

[Cleita]

104. Let's just go back to the "I forgot he was black" remark.

He would have been so much better off saying that he forgot Obama wasn't a Klingon. Sorry, it was very negative from a person who reports on Washington.

[woolldog]

106. No, not really

it really wasn't negative at all. As I pointed out in my post above you're projecting.

[goclark]

151. Offend me?

As an African American Senior I have lived through far worse than the remarks made last night.

So perhaps I am not the right person to ask was it a racist statement.

IMO,the decision to believe it to be a "racist remark" would be in the ears of each listener.

Did I think it was the right time and the right choice of words for a seasoned reporter on a major network to make, that likes Obama. -- No, IMO, it was the wrong time and the wrong setting.

Based on the other comments made in this thread, a lot of others thought it would have been better left not said. I am not alone in that sentiment.

I heard him later, in another segment, address the issue. I was not able to digest it because I was shocked that he would come back and "try to clean it up" so soon.

I am not angry at Chris Matthews, I'm sure there were many sitting in the Chamber that were using truly racist words to describe our President. It must have been extremely difficult for them to keep their lips together and still manage to tell their neighbor what they thought last night.

The President was speaking Truth to Power and he was the most Powerful man on the planet last night. That is a very hard pill for many in that room, and many listeners, to swallow.

"I still have a Dream ~~~~ we shall overcome someday!"

:patriot:

[woolldog]

181. I agree with that goclark

There was no need for Chris Matthews to go there.

[Bucky]

205. Thank you.

You've got a touch of the poet in you. I loved your essay on the day you met Dr. King.

I'm glad you're a DUer.

[samplegirl]

25. I always hated Tweety

someone should be questioning him on that comment!~~~ Total ASSHOLE!!!

[Arrowhead2k1]

30. Just leave it to tweety to say something fucked up right after Obama gives a speech.

I'm not even surprised. It's tweety, who cares?

[obxhead]

33. I've personally been sick of his show for some time now

not for his comments, but for his style. He asks a great or serious question, then he will continue speaking interrupting the answer for a solid minute or more, eating up the very short time he will have a guest. It drives me insane. I find myself screaming at the TV, STFU, I wanna hear this weasel try to wiggle out of this trap you just put him/her in!

btw, I agree the comment was really stupid and ignorant, he'll catch hell for it tomorrow I'm sure.

[onehandle]

35. I don't think so. He was just being verbally clumsy.

As usual.

[elizm]

44. As always. Why does he have a show? nt

[iamjoy]

43. What's The Big Deal

Sometimes I forget Chris Matthews is an idiot, then he says something like this and reminds me. :evilgrin:

Aren't we supposed to see past race? Maybe the problem is that Chris Matthews forgot for an hour. Does that mean that the rest of the time he defines Barack Obama as "black"?

I try not to define President Obama by his race, but by who he is and what he's accomplished. Shouldn't that be the goal? Or, considering the hurdles Barack Obama had to overcome because of his complexion, are we minimizing his accomplishments when we don't acknowledge his background? :shrug:

Seriously now, I don't think Matthews meant anything hostile by it. I think it's part of that unconscious stereotyping and prejudice so prevalent in our society. It is pernicious because it is so hidden that even the speaker is not aware they harbor such attitudes. "Light skinned with no Negro dialect" and "clean, articulate" anyone?

[mzmolly]

48. I think what he meant was he forgot the historic nature of having

a black President?

[Skip Intro]

52. I think you're probably right. But kneejerk outrage is so much more fun than thoughtful reasoning.

nt

[gateley]

55. Yes -- but it's tiresome, too. This political correctness. Makes my ass tired. nt

[NoSheep]

63. Isn't it though?

[Cleita]

74. Knee jerk from slavery to President and we still have to mention it.

Think about it.

[Jamastiene]

54. The guy is a fucking asshole.

I cannot stand Tweety. I don't know why anyone watches him.

[Cleita]

62. I usually don't watch him but he was on with Keith and Rachel covering

the the State of the Union address by the President and he dropped that bomb. Mama Mia!

[Irish_shark]

61. Can you provide more context?

What did Matthews say right before and right after he made that comment?

[Cleita]

65. No I can't because he said nothing before KO was saying something,

then he dropped this bomb, which he elaborated on while I was trying to write down what he first said and he just padded out what his first remark was. Keith and Rachel would have had their mouths open but they decided to grin rather wide eyed while they were on camera. I don't know if a transcript will survive with his whole soliloquy.

[FrenchieCat]

64. He fucking did this throughout the primaries and the GE.....

In fact, Tweety made sure that everyone remembered that this was a Black Man
throughout, and he ain't done yet.

If folks forgot, that would be a good thing....
certainly don't need the asshole to remind anyone,
which in essence is exactly what he did; spoke of race
when it wasn't required whatsoever. Fuck him!

[Cleita]

99. I don't watch him if I can avoid it,

but tonight I had to. I didn't like him for being Washington brown noser to begin with, but now I really don't like him.

[AlinPA]

164. Matthews is a racist. It's bullshit say otherwise. He is a slimy fool.

[Beacool]

66. The guy is an idiot

and a sexist creep to boot.

Why bother listening to him?

:shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. Is this his Imus moment?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

71. Tweety has been making racist comments for years. It did it last year throughout the entire campaign

Nothing new. He's a 100%, complete asshole!!!!

[Cleita]

78. I haven't watched him in a decade and a half.

I used to like his OpEds way back then before he got on TV. He was very liberal back then. But I really got pissed off with him when he went after Clinton. It wasn't that Clinton didn't deserve some of it, but not all of it. I stopped watching him and the only reason I watch him on MSNBC is when he's part of the mix on political occasions with Keith and Rachel. He was actually very well behaved tonight. At first Keith gave his opinion. Matthew tried to interrupt him a few times but stopped. When Keith was done, it was Matthew's turn to talk and this is what he had to say? So much for good behavior.

[Common Sense Party]

72. Until the next time he says something good about out President.

Then we'll love and fawn over him again. Just like old times.

[BlueStater]

75. Oh, c'mon.

He put his foot in his mouth but that doesn't make him a racist. Geez.

I'm no fan of the guy but calling someone a racist is an extremely serious accusation that's tossed around all too lightly these days.

[woolldog]

79. In context,

I didn't find his comments offensive in the least. And I'm black.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/michaelcalderone/0110/Matthews_I_forgot_he_was_black_tonight_for_an_hour.html

[Cleita]

86. So you are black and you don't mind being told that you are pretty

good at what you do, just like all the white guys who did the job before you? As a matter-of-fact that for a whole hour, they didn't even think of you as being black. Oh, well. I have no words for this.

[woolldog]

88. based on the small clip I saw

that's not what he said or implied.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=156681&mesg_id=157353

[vaberella]

145. I reade the excerpt and I understand his state of mind--actually.

Tweety can be dumb but I see his point.

[woolldog]

182. that youtube clip in your signature is hilarious

what a bunch of losers :rofl:

[Number23]

87. From your link, Matthews' comments in their entirety:

"I was trying to think about who he was tonight. It's interesting: he is post-racial, by all appearances. I forgot he was black tonight for an hour. You know, he's gone a long way to become a leader of this country, and past so much history, in just a year or two. I mean, it's something we don't even think about. I was watching, I said, wait a minute, he's an African American guy in front of a bunch of other white people. And here he is president of the United States and we've completely forgotten that tonight — completely forgotten it. I think it was in the scope of his discussion. It was so broad-ranging, so in tune with so many problems, of aspects, and aspects of American life that you don't think in terms of the old tribalism, the old ethnicity. It was astounding in that regard. A very subtle fact. It's so hard to talk about. Maybe I shouldn't talk about it, but I am. I thought it was profound that way."

The context does provide a slightly more flattering light of what the idiot said, but the idea that Obama is post-racial is so laughably stupid it's ridiculous. How the hell can Matthews call the man "post-racial" and then in the next breath say "I forgot he was black for an hour."

And Obama's race is something that a whoooooooole lot of Americans spend a GREAT DEAL of time thinking about. They haven't forgotten it in the least, regardless of how hard Matthews tries to pretend otherwise. Matthews actually seemed to dig the whole he was in a bit deeper with his comments. Oh, and I'm black too. :) These little dog whistles don't fly over my head.

[woolldog]

90. Exactly what I stated above in my response to goclark

by even bringing up race at all in a State of the Union analysis, he undermined the point he was trying to make.

But that doesn't offend me.

Matthews is a 60+ year old white guy, from the east coast (Philly). When he tries to talk about race, no matter how well intentioned, he's going to put his foot in his mouth eventually. It's just a matter of time. :rofl:

[Cleita]

93. Sure let's give him a pass on it.

Actually, this is less offensive to me than all the Republican liars he's had on his show way back when I did watch him and how he never made them honest with honest questions.

[Cleita]

91. I FORGOT HE WAS BLACK.

:wtf: Doesn't anyone understand this?

I FORGOT HE WAS A WOMAN.

I FORGOT HE WAS A MEXICAN/AMERICAN

I FORGOT HE WAS A FIRST NATION PERSON

I FORGOT HE WAS A MEMBER OF THE LITTLE PEOPLE

Everyone has to be a white guy to be compared to. Really, look at your prejudices.

[wordpix]

94. I forgot he was old, I forgot he was young, I forgot he was short

we could go on and on but your point is well taken

[Bucky]

204. Prejudices aren't racism.

These are two entirely different things you're comingling here. You want racism, look at a bank's lending practices, look at a company's hiring record. Racism is a course of action, an application of power to exclude by design or default. Racism is not some bumbletongue--one who genuinely admires and supports the president, by the way--saying something that betrays his pre-judgment.

I had a friend tell me the difference between bigotry and racism once. She said the difference between bigotry and racism is the difference between a sneer and a noose. With Chris Matthews, we don't even get up to sneer. He's a man of many flaws--many many flaws. But he's not a man of hate.

[boppers]

116. "he is post-racial, by all appearances"...

:wtf: face+palm

"I was watching, I said, wait a minute, he's an African American guy in front of a bunch of other white people."

The Congressional Black Caucus and a Supreme Court Justice don't count?
:wtf: face+palm

"you don't think in terms of the old tribalism, the old ethnicity"

:wtf: double+face+palm

It's like watching Larry King play the dozens, each moment more awkward and wrong than the last one, each comment compounding upon the obliviousness of the prior one.

[Number23]

121. Yep, but as usual, that obliviousness is downplayed and even thought "cute" or funny by many

What Matthews said is basically, "this dude was so smart, so savvy and so on his game that I FORGOT HE WAS BLACK." As if the very idea of being "black" is to be sub-par, not as good, "less than."

Many of the people saying "I don't think what he said was racist, just clumsy" are fooling themselves. It was racially clueless and offensive and as you stated, the words of someone who is absolutely oblivious. There is nothing cute, clever or funny about what he said.

Should he be tarred and feathered for what he said? Probably not but he damn sure shouldn't be given a pat on the back and excused for it either.

[Cleita]

122. You said it really as it is.

:thumbsup:

[boppers]

124. Amen. Preach it.

Growing up, I had no idea how racist I was being raised, especially when "I wasn't a racist", therefore, I wasn't.

[woolldog]

125. One minor problem though

Is that that's not "basically" what he said. He didn't say anything even close to that.

It's a complete misreading of his point to read that into his comments.

[Number23]

126. If you disagree with me, that is your prerogative. But I won't be told that I'm

"misreading" what Matthews said by someone who says that they are black but wasn't offended by them. Please go somewhere else with that mess.

I referenced and quoted the entire context of his comments. I have no doubt that my interpretation is the one that many people, particularly those of us with melanin, will walk away with as well.

[woolldog]

128. Your interpretation of his comment is flawed

and ignores the context of his comments --which were all about how Obama is post racial and how
he is an example of how the country has progressed past it's miserable racial past, not really about Obama's
performance

His point about not seeing Obama as black had absolutely nothing to do with how well Obama performed as
your original comment suggests. That's your gloss that isn't supported by what he said leading up to and after
his "don't see him as black comment"

As for the % of people who agree/disagree with your or my intepretstion, I couldn't care less. Appeal to the majority has
always been a weak form of argument.

[Number23]

129. Look, stop telling me that the way I've interpreted the comments

was wrong, and I'll try not to refer to you as a Negro with issues.

I know what I read and what the fuck I saw. Go find some other black person to agree with you. I'm sure that someone you know is equally as confused as you are. And you certainly won't have to worry about "appealing to the majority" with this weak crap you're spouting. Please find someone else to both bore and annoy simultaneously because I'm certainly done discussing this issue with you.

[woolldog]

130. lol. I love it

because Im not offended by Chris Matthews I'm a "Negro with issues"? In the future I'll be sure to clear my opinions with you so I can be a good Negro and feel outraged when I'm supposed to. How convenient it must be to write off differing opinions in that way, instead of actually thinking.

Anyone who bothers to reads the transcript can see that your interpretation is wrong for reasons already mentioned. Do I agree with Matthews? No. But I'm not offended by what he said either.

[Number23]

132. Your difference of opinion is the ONE issue I DON'T have with you

Your idiotic and repeatedly made assertion that I have "misinterpreted" what Matthews has said is what has made this conversation take such an unfortunate turn. Not only do you lack basic interpretation skills -- including when someone has insulted a community in which you claim to belong -- but your conversation skills seem damn near as tragic too.

This conversation is past productive and has never been enjoyable so I'm ending it. See the other comments to you in this thread for further discussion as more than one person apparently sees in you what I do. Bye!

[woolldog]

180. that's great

If I don't believe he insulted the AA community (i.e., if I don't agree with you), I must lack basic interpretation skills! I've made several posts interpreting his remarks, and the context of his statements and shown why your interpretation is off the mark, but you've responded with personal attacks and insults, and questioning my "negritude" etc instead of dealing with the substance of my posts. Your "interpretive skills" consist in making wild assertions about what Matthews "basically" said which are unspported by the context of his statements.

I'm not interested (and never was) in having a "conversation" with you. I'm interested in challenging your ideas. If you can't handle having your ideas and assumptions challenged civilly that's your problem, not mine.

Once again, when he says "I look at Obama and don't see race" that's an admission on his part that he looks at people through the prism of race most of the time. He prefaced that comment with an explanation of how this president is so post-racial and how remarkable it is, given the history of this country, that we now have a black President and no one is talking about race. That would have been unthinkable 40 years ago. That is hardly an insult to the black community or an assertion that he doesn't see Obama as black because he did a great job with the State of the Union address. You read that into his statements and it's just not there and the context doesn't bear out that interpretation. What a leap that is to read that into his statement!

[AspenRose]

170. The most frustrating part of all of this, is that I can remember

when he was on The Colbert Report once promoting his book, and he called Stephen out on a derogatory Irish slur (I think Stephen knew what he was saying and did it on purpose to see what Matthews would do).

He has radar for that, because he can recognize the 'Irish' dogwhistles, being Irish.

I don't expect him to catch all the 'black' dogwhistles, but good grief, man! If he's even remotely as politically savvy and connected as he thinks he is, he should know better, or at least make a more sincere attempt at being less "racially clueless." He caught 'macaca' with no problem and was relentless in pursuing it when it happened.

(He has a history of doing these sorts of things toward women as well.)

Oh, and for those of you who are "tired" of having to be so "politically correct" all the time; relax...it's still a free country and you can still say whatever the hell you want in the privacy of your own home or among your friends. You can even feed your rebellious oats and be insensitive (read: non-politically correct) among your co-workers and others if you like, not give a damn if you are offending anyone, and probably be lauded as a hero for it. No one's censoring your right to not be politically correct (just be willing to deal with the consequences of your actions). But Mr. Matthews is a TV pundit, and for him the standards are a little bit higher. For the record I don't think he's racist, but I do think he's clueless with regards to issues of race and gender, because he's old-school.

[Number23]

186. Yep. We all see what we want to see. I'm just amazed at the number of people

who CHOOSE to see what Matthews said as "not that bad" or even "understandable." Everyone is colored (sorry for the choice of words) by their own life experiences so it makes perfect sense for people to see things differently. But as I noted, I read what Matthews said, I QUOTED what he said and I saw the clip of his comments. And for someone to keep INSISTING that I "misinterpreted" what the man said simply because I found them idiotic and offensive is too much. Particularly, when it's obvious that much of the rest of the world also found them offensive judging by the fact that Matthews is getting his ass handed to him left and right for what he said.

And you are so right about the people whining about "political correctness" in this thread. It's almost laughable to think that even in 2010, people truly don't get just how TERRIBLY much they say about themselves when they whine about "pc," particularly as they always seem to be the main ones AGREEING with whatever was said that was racist or racially offensive. Funny that, huh???

[Spazito]

175. Well said!

"What Matthews said is basically, "this dude was so smart, so savvy and so on his game that I FORGOT HE WAS BLACK." As if the very idea of being "black" is to be sub-par, not as good, "less than." "

That is exactly what I took from it as well. I thought it was appalling on his part and revealed how oblivious he is to his own beliefs in the "less than" racial belief that far too many still hold, imo.

[vaberella]

147. I believe that's the whole point of Tweety's comments.

We know that we're in a racialized world. White people when looking at the President---rarely see the President for who he is...but a Black man. It's like this. When many peopole talk about Obama in another country or to other people---he's the First Black President. There is this thing that he's Black and then President. It's continuously pushed around. However, on this night Tweety, for himself at least---saw President and dropped anything related to the color of the man's skin. We are not living in a post-racial society and I think for Tweety that night he realized that he wasn't living in it because that was the one moment he was able to escape this social construction.

At first I was offended but in light of the context it redefines everything.

[wordpix]

84. Comment was bizarre to me mainly b/c it had nothing to do with SOTU speech

and was totally off topic, but did it show racism? :shrug: I don't think so

[Cleita]

96. You compare an African American/white American President, by saying that

you forgot he was a little dark? I would say that is prejudice.

[Obamacare]

127. I don't get it

What was so bad about stating the truth? Obama transcends race.

[JTFrog]

142. You don't even get that your username is offensive.

I'm not surprised you don't get this.

[NOLALady]

168. How many past Presidents

and/or elected officials "transcends race"?

[Raineyb]

194. Why exactly do you say that Obama "transcends race"

And why is it that only black and brown people have to "transcend race" The only way this phrase makes any sense is if you consider being anything other than white as something so intrinsically wrong, so broken, so sub par that to not be seen as what you are but to be in essence an "honorary" white person is so offensive that it's ridiculous that this even needs to be explained.

Either someone is acceptable as they are or they're not. If you have to remove a persons identity and see them like you are in order for that person to be acceptable that's a pretty bloody good hint that you're a racist.

As a black woman there is nothing more infuriating than someone who thinks that not seeing me as black is some kind of compliment. Yes I am intelligent, yes I am competent, yes I am talented and yes I am black, and no this shouldn't be a surprise. If you can't see all my talents and attributes without removing the black in order to make it work in your mind then you are the one with a problem; one that I don't have the time nor the inclination to help you correct.

[wordpix]

98. AAAACCCKKKK---he's at it again now LIVE~~!!!! (Tweety editing himself)

"it was an epiphany - he's taken us beyond black and white, wonderfully so" :eyes:

[Cleita]

101. Oh, my! n/t

[jillan]

103. I am NO fan of Tweety's - at all - But I really think in his own weird way he meant that as a

compliment. I think he was saying that he feels people can look at Obama and see past the color of his skin.
Sometimes you gotta look at where the comments come from.

[Cleita]

107. I always look at where those comments come from.

As a person of mixed heritage myself, who looks white, I always have had to listen to crap like this. No I don't look to be favored, but I am when I go for jobs, renting apartments, etc., etc.. I have heard of people who are ethnically different than most white people being accepted into various white groups because they know how not to be offensive to the ethnic European/Americans who control things. I don't mean me hanging with a crowd, because I don't, but at work or in my apartment building people have whispered to me about the new hire or the new tenant who is different from us, but whom looks like they might really fit in. I am fed up. Sorry.

[AspenRose]

174. That is always the standard for the majority

In order for the minority member to be unconditionally accepted, they have to make sure they don't make the majority uncomfortable in ANY way.

That goes for male/female as well, depending on who's in the majority at the time.

[NOLALady]

176. I don't see it as a compliment

when someone says they can see past the color of my skin. WTF is wrong with the color of my skin that someone thinks it's a compliment to see past it?

I've heard that "compliment" from the clueless.

[zulchzulu]

105. I could see his point, but he stepped in it pretty badly

I think he was attempting to say he admired Obama for his speech and forcefulness, but he crafted an obviously stupid way to project that by saying that Obama didn't even "feel" black to him in the speech.

I think that perhaps he could have said it a lot better, such as it was a historic speech by the first African American president and (blah, blah, blah)...

I don't think he's a racist. He's just clumsy at his words. If you saw the whole statement, you'd see he was admiring Obama... if only in a Reid-like way.

[Cleita]

109. Yes, they admire, but they can't get past the fact that he is

ethnically half African and half whatever his mother was, which I believe was Irish/American. Her ethnicity is much harder to figure out than his father's. It shouldn't make a feather's difference. No one should talk about anything about him except his accomplishments or lack of them.

[WeekendWarrior]

108. I'm not a Matthews fan, but couldn't he have simply been saying that his color and all the b.s. that

goes along with it was irrelevant?

[Cleita]

111. If he was, it was not a good way to say it.

As I have said further up on this thread, I am of mixed parentage myself, but I emerged rather whiter than darker. I really got tired of listening about whom was a satisfactory person to the white elite among the not so white. This came across to me the same.

[Monk06]

113. That is exactly what he was saying but to some purists on this site the mere mention of race

makes you racist. Saying you are a white man and
Obama has made you think beyond race, in a racist
society, makes you a racist.

Well in a neo Maoist, 1980's, Adrian Piper sort of
way, I guess the CM haters are right, I'm white and
must bear the sins of my forefathers forever.

Makes the condemnation of Moses look like a light
sentence.

[Cleita]

115. You really need to work on your prejudices. n/t

[Monk06]

117. You need to work on your political orthodoxy. I am a lot further left than you are.

I don't worship the ground that middle class
african american liberal intellectuals walk on.

Adrian Piper is a classic example. She is no more
black than I am and made a career out of painting
all whites, even her liberal white friends as racists
By birth apparently. How racist is that

[Cleita]

118. I just do common work for a living.

I am obviously not in your stratosphere.

[Monk06]

119. I've never worked for more than $10 per hour in my life. I work on call day by day.

You can look up Adrian Piper on Google if you
don't understand my references. She's quite
well known for her view that whites are racist
in virtue of the fact that they were born white
in a racist society. It doesn't get more Maoist
than that in terms of moralistic, political orthodoxy.

Her art is nothing but feable political diatribe shouted
from a balcony overlooking Central Park with her back facing
Harlem.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

110. I'm not sure he's saying he's a racist. I think more an admission..

the menacing spell of racism is lifting, maybe not ever vanishing but it's fading. I more take it as him saying I may have issues, but Pres. Obama helps him overcome them. To even give him full benefit of the doubt he saw only the content of his character and the content of the speech. I say this as a mixed race guy, I like to give people a chance before assigning any labels.

[Cleita]

112. He really didn't need to mention it all all especially in the first sentence

he spoke after the SOTU. Why couldn't he have just said that it was a speech he liked?

[Cleita]

114. I'M NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS OFFENDED BY THIS. LOOK AT THE NYT!

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/msnbcs-matthews-i-forgot-he-was-black/

[goclark]

165. Thanks for the video

As I stated before some thoughts, especially on sensative issues or impressions, are better left unsaid.

He was speaking from his heart and I believe his heart was in the right placce but it just IMO didn't work well in a fast paced sound bite.

[JVS]

120. What the hell went on in his mind after the hour?

Was he like "Oh no! The darkness is returning to him!"?

[Cleita]

123. Really. If he had said the same thing about Bush, like he forgot for an

hour that Bush was a fake Texan or something like that.

[woolldog]

131. When I watched Bush's SOTU address

I forgot he was a Yalie for an hour :rofl:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

133. Chris Matthews is not a racist.

Scott Baio's wife's best friend is black, therefore Chris Matthews is not a racist.

[tomm2thumbs]

134. that made me laugh out loud

Six degrees of non-racist. It's the new rule to live by.

[democracy1st]

135. BS you guys know Chris isn't a racist!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

178. LOL. Did you see him with Pat Buchanan last year during Sotomayor's confirmation?

I'm guessing by your post you did not.

[nod factor]

136. I would defend

a skinhead borne in to a family and community not knowing any better before I defend this clown.
He is the worst type of educated racist and unfortunately just laid his soul all out on camera for all to see.
Does he think we are some kind of inferior collective?
Where when one of us tingles his leg enough his preconceived notions of the collective suffers momentary lapse?
Man that guy was so good he just can't be black?
WTF?

[moondust]

137. delete

[cleveramerican]

138. you are wrong

its too easy to hurl the charge and too hard to defend oneself against it.

you think he's racist... okay, I get that.

I think somebody who thinks that is too fragile for their own good.

[JTFrog]

141. Maybe it shouldn't be framed as he's racist, but he SAID A RACIST THING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0Ti-gkJiXc">How To Tell People They Sound Racist

It's too easy to let someone off the hook with the "what you are" argument. Stick to the "what you did" argument.

[vaberella]

150. He didn't say something racist. Far from it, in actuality. n/t

[Raineyb]

195. Why so he can get a pass for the racist thinking behind his remark? n/t

[JTFrog]

198. I take it you haven't watched the video. n/t

[Raineyb]

199. I did watch the video.

And while Tweety may think that not seeing that someone is black is a complement I do not. In addition, the whole "post-racial" thing is bullshit to begin with so the premise of his "complement" has no basis in reality in the first place.

[Jennicut]

143. He actually said that? Wow.

[vaberella]

149. Read post # 79, it might change your thinking. n/t

[Jennicut]

163. I don't think Tweety means to be racist but he is loose with his mouth

and does not think before he speaks.

[vaberella]

148. Before I heard or read the whole thing I was offended. I am not offended now. It makes sense. n/t

[Inuca]

152. Is Biden racist?

He said some poorly worded things about Obama as well. Matthews is not a racist and he obviously likes Obama a lot. But sometimes his mouth works much faster than his brain. But you do not judge and categorize a man just because of this. No, I am sure Matthews is not a racist.

[Sherman A1]

153. Chris Who?

I quit watching him a long time ago. Chris is all about Chris, he invites guests on and simply talks over them, time & again. His program is simply a waste of time.

[secondwind]

156. Tweety's like that.....but he was in the Peace Corps in Africa, so he's not a racist.

[JoePhilly]

159. I propose that we play the new game: Racist or Douche bag?

I think Chris was trying to say something positive ... perhaps even "post-racial" ... but once again, Chris's inner douche-bag took control of his mouth.

Kind of like when, after Bush lands on the aircraft carrier he said "We are all neo-cons now".

Or when he said he could almost smell the "Aqua-velva" on Fred Thompson.

Or when he got a "tingle" up his leg during an Obama speech.

I gotta go with Douche bag.

[pundaint]

160. You make a good point, but the positive thing he was saying was that he stopped

thinking about Obama's race for an hour, so that does make him a racist. Let's compromise - he's a racist douche bag. OK now on to Pat Buchanann

[freddie mertz]

161. He is a clueless blockhead. His thinking is out of date. He can't control his mouth.

Matthews is not a racist in the malicious sense.

But he clearly still holds a stubborn, perhaps only semi-conscious view of black folks, women, and others as "different" than the "Normal white males he identifies with.

He is not necessarily bigoted. He is happy that we have a "black" president.

But he can't help framing his analysis is embarrassing, hopelessly out of touch language.

"Political Tourettes."

[AlinPA]

162. Matthews is a loudmouthed, racist slobbering fool. nt

[CreekDog]

169. No, that's not racist

In a country with a history of noticing race, for someone of that generation to say that he just stopped noticing it is actually some sort of progress.

It's not racist to say that you notice or don't notice that someone is black or not.

C'mon.

Furthermore, Matthews actually has a point here. We've gotten so used to Obama as president.

[uponit7771]

183. Racist have use that VERY phrase to minimize differences to themselves,it was at least insensitive

[CreekDog]

185. It was insensitive yes

Matthews, insensitive? :wtf:

however, if the point I think he was making was said more carefully, it would have been insightful:

"I wonder if the people watching even notice his race the way they did 2 years ago. Now we are focused on political concerns, none of them about Obama's race. If most of us have gotten to the place where the first thing we think of when we see Obama is "health care, deficit, banks, foreign policy" rather than his race then we really have achieved something. That is to say, it's a mark of progress if he can be judged for what he's doing rather than how he looks".

If he had said that it would have been a decent comment, and I have a feeling that's more like what he was thinking.

Yes, I like to give people the benefit of the doubt until I get burned a few times doing it.

[nini]

171. When Obama was elected Matthews was pretty much in tears that the race barrier had been broken

he was overwhelmed that this country had gotten to the point that a black man was elected president. My take of his comments when taken in entirety AND seeing him on Rachel's show last night indicate more of the same emotion.

Perhaps he should have chosen better words the first time - but the emotion behind those words weren't rooted in racism but pride in Obama himself and this country to continue to rise above the race BS in general.

Let me add - Matthews loves Obama. He is one of the few pundits who admit to really liking him and the job he's trying to do.

[NOLALady]

179. Of course he loves Obama.

Thomas Jefferson also loved Sally Hemmings.

[Raineyb]

196. And that makes the comment less offensive...How? n/t

[dgibby]

172. This may help explain some things.

MSNBC’s King Day lineup on Monday includes “Obama’s America: 2010 and Beyond,” moderated by “Hardball’s” Chris Matthews and featuring radio host Tom Joyner live from Texas Southern University in Houston.

Airing from 10 p.m.-12 a.m. ET on Jan. 18, the special “will explore some of the most pressing and provocative issues connected to race and race relations in the U.S.,” a press release states.

Issues on the table range from whether there is such a thing as generational colorblindness, to the “burdens of the first,” and whether there are a unique set of expectations and challenges attached to being the first to break a racial barrier.


I didn't watch the special because I can't stand Matthews, but this may have been what he was trying to reference with his totally off the wall remarks last night.

My own take as a white woman growing up in the segregated South: if you have to say you forgot the man was black, then you didn't forget the man is black. Personally, I was appalled at his ignorance.

[wisteria]

173. I don't believe he meant anything racist in his remarks. It was just a stupid thing to say. n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

177. He has a problem with race. If you need any confirmation, see his hate fest with Pat Buchanan

during the Sotomayor nomination.

[Raineyb]

197. And that makes his comment less offensive... How?

I would REALLY like someone to answer this question. Intent is not what makes a comment offensive, it's the comment that's offensive. The intention means shit.

[xxqqqzme]

187. He started his entire

observation w/ (paraphrasing here) 'a year ago we were all marveling that an African American had just been sworn in as President. That our country had taken a giant step forward. Every one was saying it.' I think his awkward & clumsy observation last night was no one was saying anything about the President as African-American. Just responding to the SOTU w/ no color being thrown into the mix.

I think he was trying to say something nice but it was very awkward and not worded well.

I cannot believe I'm defending tweety cuz I really do not like him. He irritates my last nerve. I usually only catch the last minute or two before Countdown begins

[Uzybone]

189. Another example of why its better to see for yourself

After watching the comments in question, I don't believe they were made with a racist context in mind. Tweety is a buffoon, a sexist and IMO has demonstrated typical white man unconscious racism for many years. But this was not an example. IMO Tweety is as much a racist as most white folks out there, including many posters on DU and many liberals.

[Bucky]

200. He's an idiot. He's certainly prejudiced. But racist? a bigot? Not even in the ball park.

Not buying it. There's a difference between being outright hatred and the quaint anachronisms of senior citizens.

[Raineyb]

202. Why because the "quaint anachronisms" of senior citizens couldn't possibly

be based on racist thinking?

:eyes:

[Bucky]

203. Do me a favor. Well, do yourself a favor, too. Watch this clip at MSNBC

It's Chris Matthews re-explaining his horribly expressed point. It's the one called "Will Obama have to do it without Republicans?" (the fifth one down). Watch it and tell me if this a man with hate in his heart.

If you still think so, we'll have a parting of views on this question. Until I see evidence to the contrary, I still think he's just an bumbletongue with a good heart and, because of his age, a less tolerant upbringing than me. Racism, after all, isn't just an opinion--it's a course of action.

[Raineyb]

207. Why do you assume I didn't watch it. I've watched it. It doesn't really mitigate

the underlying reason why it was offensive in the first place. When people say that they forget you're black they're not saying they appreciate you for who you are and what you can do. They're saying "You're smart, you're talented you aren't REALLY black." which is saying that you can't be talented and smart AND black because black by default isn't any of those things. And his explanation doesn't do anything to change that interpretation. In fact his "bumbletongue" as you put it merely put a fine point to that in language which is more plain that they usually use on TV.

[kstewart33]

211. Could it be.....yes, I think I see it now....could it be

that your interpretation........is wrong?

[Raineyb]

215. Could it be that you're making excuses because you agree with Tweety

and don't like being called out. That's a hell of a lot more likely than my being wrong in this case is.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

219. Please Help Me Out.. I Want To Find Common Ground

If Matthews was saying that a white man is articulate and intelligent and since President Obama is articulate and intelligent he fogot he was black that is messed up.

I thought what Matthews was saying, clumsily and inarftfully, was that he just saw a person up there.

Think of your dear friends and acquaintances. Race is one of the the first things you notice about a person. It's a defining feature like height, weight, hair color et cetera, but after you know them for awhile you don't know them by their features but only know them as friends. I think that's ultimately where we all want society to be. I think that was what Matthews was getting at, albeit inartfully.

[Raineyb]

220. So he's saying he didn't have to work to see a person when Bush was standing up there?

Or was Bush a person by default? The problem is that it's only those of us who aren't white who seem to have to earn the right to be seen as a person. I don't want people to not notice I'm black. How could they if they aren't blind? What I want is to be respected for who I am and not to be seen as a representative of the whole black community especially when in this country that usually means fielding rather ignorant questions when someone has been arrested or something equally negative.

[Bucky]

223. I assumed you didn't watch because I didn't want to believe you were that cold & judgmental

As stated above, if you still think he's a racist, we have our parting of views on this question. I wish you well.

[Raineyb]

228. Excuse you? Look, I've spent my whole fucking life trying to protect myself

from racist assholes and they're a lot more subtle than they were before the civil rights movement. Don't for a moment think that the children born in the 70's have been spared any racist bullshit because it wasn't enforced by law. And I've lived in some lily white areas of the country. I've seen the subtle digs, the ostracization, the "compliments." I've been called arrogant, cocky, hostile because I stand my ground and call people out on their bullshit. And Tweety's "compliment" is exactly one of those so-called well meaning statements that are steeped in white supremacy because they can't possibly imagine that all these positive qualities they want to ascribe to the person in front of them could possibly be properly ascribed to a black person. Do you think that as a native speaker of English I should consider "you speak so well" a compliment a well?

And you think I'm cold and judgmental because I won't give this clown a fucking pass? Are you for fucking real? Why the hell should ANYONE give him a pass on that! I am not obligated to make you, or any other person feel comfortable with their delusions of superiority especially when it comes AT MY EXPENSE! So screw you for daring to think that I should put consider Tweety's and the feelings of those who dare defend his foolishness before I consider MINE and those like me!

[kstewart33]

213. And why haven't you been flamed?

Your point's too rational to survive on this thread. Actually, your post has three thoughts, none of which is 'You disagree with me - you're a RACIST' which make them quite unique.

Flamers get to work, don't fail me now!

[Raineyb]

217. Probably because he didn't come across as an asshole. n/t

[madmax]

201. WTF? sheeesh

[DeadEyeDyck]

206. He trips over his tongue n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

208. Here's My Take

And I want to be uber-careful. Our race, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation, et cetera is an indelible part of who we are but at the end of the day we want to be seen as just human beings who are defined by our character.

I think what Chris Matthews was trying to get at was that he just saw a person up there; nothing more, nothing less.

I think Chris Matthews who we used to call "Goofball" in our home as in "Goofball" is on television is a lot of things but I don't think a racist is one of them. I don't think he was saying white is the ideal and that President Obama was living up to the ideal.

What he said was inartful and inelegant and "sounded bad" but I don't think he's a racist.

[kstewart33]

210. Why haven't you been flamed? Your post is far too rational, far too common sensical

to not be flamed on this thread.

Flamers, get to work!

[Honeycombe8]

222. Well, I don't know about that. I wasn't aware, before O was elected, at just how

prevalent the racism thing is among middle aged white men. I knew it was there, but it was usu. with southern, conservative, older non-black men. Now I've seen it far too often in run of the mill slightly liberal white men.

I think they don't see it as racism. They are just speaking their minds and noting the truth...that because someone said something interesting, Tweety forgot that the person was black. That is, on the face of it, admitting that race matters to him, usually more than what the person is saying. Doesn't mean he hates the person, wouldn't hire him, thinks he's a lesser person. But it DOES mean he thinks of that person as something different than himself.

I'm a white woman. I'm aware of Obama's racial background. But I can honestly say that when I look at O or hear him speak, his racial background is not what I think about. It's part of my knowledge of him, and in that respect, forms part of my thought process about him. Like his height, his hair, his manner of dress, etc. Nothing more. Then at times I DO think about his racial background, when something national happens that involves race, or when O says something that hits on that area, or when the Rev. was in the news. And of course, I am still amazed at times that someone with his racial background was elected President, because it's the first time it has ever happened.

Tweety is also a bit sexist. He doesn't think he is, I'm sure. But his thought process is such that it is part of him. He doesn't mean to be that way, probably. It's just part of his way of thinking. He doesn't openly t hink others are lesser persons than he is. He just thinks of others as DIFFERENT from himself. Women are so very DIFFERENT, and are women in his mind before they are human beings. Black men are so very DIFFERENT, and are black in his mind before they are considered other human beings like himself.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[lib_wit_it]

218. Bullshit. Define Racist.

[JTFrog]

224. The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and/or

that a particular race is superior to others.

How in the fuck does "I forgot he was black for an hour" not try to point out some difference in character or ability based on race?

Chris Matthews said a racist thing.

As to "what Chris Matthews is"... well that's a slippery slope too easy to wiggle out of in his case. He doesn't have a clear history of being racist like, oh let's say...Pat Buchanan.

So let's just hold him accountable for what he said. I hope his apology yesterday was sincere. I missed it.

[victoryparty]

225. Matthews needs to interrupt his thought process more often, not his guests

Matthews needs to interrupt his thought process more often, not his guests.

[RBInMaine]

226. Unfair to call him "racist." He was talking about how Obama has transcended the racial divide.

Maybe not expressed perfectly, but how does one discuss the point without some risk of over-sensitive reactions and misunderstandings? A comment about race in such a context by no means indicates the person is "racist." That is a very harsh charge, and one that should not be chucked out so quickly.

[LynneSin]

227. And to think DUers wanted Matthews to run for senate in PA as a DEMOCRAT

:eyes:

[Captain Hilts]

229. He's been a flagrant sexist for years, but folks here are okay with that. nt

[slutticus]

231. Context?

As much as I love being flipped into hysteria by a three line post....can you provide some context?