This GOP Governor is doing from the right what Obama should have done from the left

[Armstead]

He is spelling out in no uncertain terms the conservative position on both philosophical and specific terms.

The conservative position is wrong. But at least the GOP is not afraid to own that philosophy and spell it out and put issues in a clear idelogical context and explain why.

Until the Democrats stop waffling and avoid being LIBERALS in equally clear terms, we will continue to bumble along and ultimately cede ground.

Both parties offer Apple Pie, Motherhood and Cute Puppies. But the difference is how they propose to support those generally agreed-upon virtues. A difference in philosophy is the crucial difference, and what has to be sold. We don't do that. They do.

You may now open fire if you wish...I'm going out for a pack of butts.

[Jackeens]

1. Was there anything at all in the SOTU address that encouraged you?

Just wondering.

[Armstead]

10. I thought Obama's last few minutes was great and inspiring

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Armstead]

17. I compliment Obama and that makes me more toxic?

Not that it matters, but I try to be objective about this stuff.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

32. The GOP don't have any policies, only no to everything

The GOP is a hopeless party which ahs no interest in the people

[Armstead]

37. They do have policies -- They are bad but they are policies

[Jackeens]

12. Okay, that's good.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

2. LOL...ok.

[Thrill]

3. Yeah ask your neighbor for help.

[ProSense]

4. Stupid. n/t

[Armstead]

11. Coming from you that's a compliment

[ProSense]

18. Beyond stupid. n/t

[TankLV]

23. Your posts always are...

[ProSense]

24. They're back

Bitter people.

[TankLV]

22. Boy that's for sure!! x10!!!

[laureloak]

5. Bull. Obama did a fine job. The Republican is blather, blather,

baloney I've heard a million times. Same old tired politics. He's trying to align himself with Scott Brown. He sounds like a baby. Awful.

[Armstead]

14. There is a context -- We have none

GOP Conservatives -- Small government, cut taxes, no regulation.

It's bullshit, but it is a framework.

Democrats? Well these days it seems like it's small government, cut taxes, very little regulation.

We have to counter the conservative vision with a clear context of government as an important solution, taxes as a means of supporting public services and regulatiuon to protect the weak and the average against the powerful.

[laureloak]

38. We need to remake government first. Make it of the people,

by the people, and for the people once again.

[BeyondGeography]

6. Um, that WAS a liberal SOTU

Not one of your better posts.

PS: Lose the butts.

[Armstead]

15. Probably not one of my better posts -- But not a rousing liberal speech either

I'm trying to lose the butts. But my willpower fails me.

[Gman]

It's their same old lame shit

like a broken record. NOthing new. Obama was wise to not even consider doing this.

[Armstead]

19. We have to be a broken record about liberalism

That is the only way there willo ever be a clear counterpoint.

As I said elsewhere -- Both parties and ideologies claim to be in favorn of apple pie and motherhood. The difference is in what we believe is necessary to advance those virtues.

[kstewart33]

7. I have absolutely no idea about what you are saying.

Tell us all - how did Obama waffle and cede ground?

For not being a 100% far lefter?

If he is, exactly what will he accomplish as president working with this Congress?

[Bobbie Jo]

8. What are you watching?

Or smoking, for that matter?

[RepublicanElephant]

9. obama was trying to keep america awake. nt

[DJ13]

13. Liberals are afraid of defining their objectives

Its easier to deal with the voters if they can claim they never promised something.

[Armstead]

16. Wde have to define liberal objectives or CONservatives will always have the upper hand

[DJ13]

21. I whole heartedly agree

We need to offset the conservatives with a choice for voters from the other side of the political spectrum.

But Im sure the DLC'ers would scream bloody murder.

[countmyvote4real]

20. Good point. I have to agree.

A comment on the GOP rebuttal:

When the governor was praising Americans for their support of Haiti earthquake relief, I seriously kept waiting for a "but... it's no place for government."

[depakid]

25. Doing so- establishing the overriding narrative is a lot more effective than laundry lists

of disparate policies.

This is a general audience of people who are worried, sometimes angry and resentful- 30% meet the federal definition of poverty, and perhaps another 15% feels like they're a paycheck or an illness or injury away from losing what they have.

It ain't a grad school bunch he's talking to.

And you don't win any points by gratuitously saying you "don't want to punish the banks" -when probably 85% of the country believes they deserve it- or at the very least, wants them held accountable for their behavior at a time when they've been handing out huge bonuses."

That's beyond tone deaf.

[Armstead]

26. Break up the bemoth banks -- That's what he should be fighting for

It'd be a lot better for the nation, the economy and probably politically.

The notion that we have allowed a few mega banks to be so biog and powerful that they can wreck the economy in a week is obscene.

[depakid]

30. Nary a word about "too big to fail"

There was the perfect villain and foil- yet what we got was the same deal as last summer with the jawboning of health insurers- along with the gratuitous note that "they're not bad people."

Just makes you shake your head, considering how abusive these people really are- and have proved to be to 100's of millions of patients over the years.

[Mass]

27. The following was the best part of the speech.

After all these whinings of these last week or so, this was good to hear. Even if I do not agree with every proposal he announced.

To Democrats, I would remind you that we still have the largest majority in decades, and the people expect us to solve some problems, not run for the hills. And if the Republican leadership is going to insist that 60 votes in the Senate are required to do any business at all in this town, then the responsibility to govern is now yours as well. Just saying no to everything may be good short-term politics, but it's not leadership.

BTW, he also said that if somebody knew a proposal that would work better than his, let him know: "time to call for single payer. It will work better".

Globally, I liked this speech. It was a good speech for his goal, that is, I think it was clear these last few days, not to get the left on board, but to get the independents on board. We may feel uneasy about the ideas, but the feisty tone was there, and at least, it did not sound like a speech where they were laying on the floor and waiting to die.

[Armstead]

28. Obama's style was fine -- But we have to state what we are fighting FOR

I don;t believe the issue should be getting "the left" on board. What he ought to be doing (in my opinion, of course) is to create a context in which people in the "middle" can be encouraged to see that it is safe to see liberalism/progressive populism as a solution.

[Mass]

29. I dont disagree, but I was not expecting this in this speech.

I was just hoping he would not sell the house, just like other Democrats have done this last week. So, I guess he exceeded my expectations.

Democrats have been afraid to be seen as progressive for more more than 20 years now. It will take a change of mentality to get leaders to do so.

[Armstead]

33. There are many Democratic leaders who are clear liberals and progressives.....

People like Jan Schiakovski, Marcy Kaptur, Barbara Lee, Tom Harkin, Sherrod Brown and many others who also tend to get re-elected...I would just like to see Obama aligning himself (and the party) and expressing their message more and less with the DLC and conservadem types like Bayah, Nelson, Rahm, etc.

That's what I find most disappointing. Tthe problem is not a lack of progressive leaders who are Democrats -- it's this stubborn stranglehold the so-called centrists have on the WH and Congressional inside leadership.

[many a good man]

31. Obama spoke like a statesman

Like someone who is there to GOVERN, not just make political hay.

It was a speech that reached across the aisle. He included several ideas that were meant to show compromise with centrist and conservative ideas. It hearkens back to the days when politics was called the "art of compromise." Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears. It shows he is still trying. Americans want a return when things could actually get done despite the all the political posturing.

[FrenchieCat]

34. Vote for the Republican then...since he panders so well!

Good luck with that!

[Armstead]

35. That should not be the only choice

[depakid]

36. Many people will- and if you haven't learned that by now- you never will

[phleshdef]

39. The GOP Governor was a yawning failure last night, Obama is being hailed as a refreshing success.

So no, there is no insight to be gained from watching what the GOP governor did. There is nothing different Obama should have done that the GOP governor did. Your observation needs some serious rethinking.