Just a reminder.While cartigating lobbyists again, Pres.Obama met with

[saracat]

Billy Tauzin, head of PhRMA, the drug industry lobby, every two weeks for months according to his own WH visitors log.Tauzin was featured in an obama campaign ad concerning people that the Obama pledged he would NOT do business with.To mention lobbyists and the WH log in a SOTU while pledging (again) to get rid of their influence is bothersome.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[akbacchus_BC]

2. Don't you have some other place to go to?

[emilyg]

10. Wish you would go.

[Bobbie Jo]

25. +1

...and stay.

[Lord Helmet]

27. +1

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NBachers]

4. "Bothersome"

and

"Disconcerting"

[akbacchus_BC]

5. Don't you know when to effing quit?

[uppityperson]

15. I wonder if this constitutes stalking?

[pecwae]

19. Clear case IMO

and easy to prove.

[inna]

26. Don't *you*?? WTF is wrong with you? Why are you attacking her??

:thumbsdown:

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. That's cartastrophic!

:evilgrin:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. John McCain and Sarah Palin used to make the same sort of argument.

That a president shouldn't diplomatically meet with the opposition. They were talking about other countries, but it applies elsewhere.

Don't worry.

They're bitter too.

[bread_and_roses]

23. So corporations are to be accorded the same status as nations?

And lobbyists the same courtesies as Ambassadors? Well, that sure spells out the status-quo clearly. But I didn't think that was the world view we elected Obama to promote. Not to mention it was not the stance he campaigned on - I seem to remember a few words about lobbyists that don't exactly fit that mold. But hey, "Oceania was not after all at war with Eurasia. Oceania was at war with Eastasia. Eurasia was an ally."

[boppers]

8. cartigating?

Obama wants everyone at the table.

That doesn't mean that PhRMA gets excluded, quite the opposite, actually.

[depakid]

11. "Obama wants everyone at the table." err... hate to break up the adulation

but Physicians for a National Health Care Plan were excluded both from the White House AND from Baucus' farcical hearings, where eight of them were arrested trying to be heard.

[boppers]

13. link please?

Without seeing the link, I'd *guess* this would be similar to Code Pink wanting to be at all Pentagon strategy meetings.... jumping up and down, and screaming at the table, is just as unequal as buying a seat.

[depakid]

14. Here ya go:

On the "Baucus 8:"

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/05/27-1

As to the White House, I was incorrect- after initially excluding all single payer advocates, the White House at the last minute allowed two of them in during one summit (after some controversy over the earlier exclusion).

Exclusion:

http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/in-the-news/2009/march/advocates-of-single-payer-health-system-say-white-house-left-them-out.html

Invitation after cancellation of planned White House protest:

http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2009/03/05/invited-to-health-summit-single-payer-advocates-cancel-protest/tab/article/

[Dr.Phool]

21. No, this was all over the place when it was happening.

Single--payer advocates were excluded from the Baucus hearings, and arrested when they objected.

Everyone, except single payer advocates were invited to the White House.

[Jakes Progress]

43. Why'd you go?

Any reply to post 14? Anything?

[saracat]

18. Castigating. (Typo)" You don't seat then all at the table. They eat all the food!"

Just a coinkydink for the WH to meet with Big Phrama multiple times and then ask that drug reimportation be pulled. Sen. Wyden was none to thrilled about that nor are millions who can't afford meds. The list of lobbyists meeting and negotiating with the WH when Obama pledged not to do so, and reiterated that pledge tonight is head spinning.And how's that public option doing?

[CreekDog]

49. and probably the reason "Harry and Louise" commercials weren't run against health care all summer

at least not by those industries.

i think the administration has been pretty upfront telling us how important that was to them.

[saracat]

61. Yeah and just look at the wonderful HCR we got!

:sarcasm: We acheive nothing by not standing up to these people. Nothing. like bipartisanship, it does not work.

[la la]

9. cartigating?

is that a sara palin word?

oooops

[emilyg]

12. Thanks.

[RoyGBiv]

16. Odd ...

I didn't order a Manhattan.

[xchrom]

17. Recommend

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[Dr.Phool]

22. Is your head up four wazoo?

It's been well documented for months and proven by White House visitors logs.

Unless you think Tauzin was there looking for Jeff Gannon. But, he's not there anymore.

[Spheric]

24. K&R but it doesn't matter. Can't fix the party if you can't face the truth.

But, then what's to fix? Lobbyists spend a lot of money to gain access, so they're entitled to it.

Reaganomics doesn't work for the average American, but it's very popular.

Rock on.

[tbyg52]

30. +1. The number of heads in the sand here is amazing and scary. nt

[unapatriciated]

28. K&R

[Romulox]

29. k/r. See also the following link from LBN:

After Obama rips lobbyists, K St. insiders get private briefings

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4247263&mesg_id=4247263

[CreekDog]

31. Were you listening to the speech? He said it should be disclosed

and you only know it because it was disclosed.

hold the guy to what he said --not what you say he said.

[CreekDog]

32. Are you lying to us?

Here's what he said:

"That's what I came to Washington to do. That's why, for the first time in history, my administration posts our White House visitors online. That's why we've excluded lobbyists from policy-making jobs or seats on federal boards and commissions.

But we can't stop there. It's time to require lobbyists to disclose each contact they make on behalf of a client with my administration or with Congress. It's time to put strict limits on the contributions that lobbyists give to candidates for federal office.

With all due deference to separation of powers, last week, the Supreme Court reversed a century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations, to spend without limit in our elections."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/01/27/sotu.transcript/index.html?eref=rss_latest&utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_latest+%28RSS%3A+Most+Recent%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

====================

You would have a point if you stated that you think he should never meet with them.

Where I think you are dishonest is in holding him to account for what he never said, but you make it appear that he said something he didn't.

What does that make you?

Stop lying to me! I have my problems with Obama...I've posted them many times in recent weeks. We could be talking about where he has failed --instead I'm talking about where you are deceitfully trying to mislead people on what he's actually said.

If he did that to you, what would you say about it? Oh and since you are doing it to him, what basis do you have to complain about it coming from him?

:rant:

[saracat]

36. Obama campaigned on the premise of lessening lobbyists influence in government. do you deny he even

made a commercial featuring Billy Tauzin as the type of negative influence he pledged to be rid of? And yet he disclosed meeting with Tauzin every 2 weeks for months?And yet big pharma got Drug re importation pulled at the request of the WH according to Sen. Wyden? And now, after the big speech, see post 29:

After Obama rips lobbyists, K St. insiders get private briefings

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


And add to that the many lobbyists the Admin hired by giving them exemptions! Remember Tom Daschle was considered for Health Sec and only withdrew due to tax problems.Sorry but I see no evidence that anything was done or will be done to eliminate lobbyists influence.

But yes ,it was a real barn burner of a speech.So what? Actions speak louder than words.

[CreekDog]

47. Are you willing to argue what you posted or do you prefer to change the subject?

you started out arguing that Obama made hypocritical statements last night, but in doing so, you didn't actually base that on what he said last night. i get stuck on that part when you want to move onto an argument you didn't make in the OP: the merits of actually meeting with lobbyists.

first, environmentalists and labor unions have lobbyists. good guys to be sure --but lobbyists nonetheless.

to say that someone who is lobbying for something can't meet with the White House means that none of us could propose anything or say anything in a meeting with the White House. that's crazy.

second, as Ezra Klein said(or Matt Yglesias, I forget which):

you meet and make deals with powerful interests because THEY CAN KILL your bill or your reform or whatever.

frustrating, and not a sexy explanation, but there's truth to it.

[saracat]

54. Keep deflecting and blame it me. You are advocating making deals with them? Really?

Cause everybody does it? Thats the nature of politics? right?:sarcasm: So what did we get for it? The public option? Drug reimportation? We got nada, but some Dem pols will benefit from big Pharma donations.Tjhje pres,met with Billy Tauzin but he couldn't meet with doctors and nurses.And guess what/ all reform was killed. You know perfectly well I was NOT referring to citizen lobbyists and that weas obvious when I started out with the mention of Tauzin, who I notice you cannot deny met with Obama every two weeks for months and it just so happens got Weydens Drug Reimportation Bill kILLED. Meanwhile the WH makes deals with these powerful scum and politicians collect donations, and Americans are dying. Your arguments disgust me. Same old arguments every time. Nothing changes but at least you aren't pretending it has by this last post.Instead you defend the status quo.At least that is honest.

[CreekDog]

55. You said I advocated making deals with them because everybody does it: You lied

i never said that nor implied it.

the reason i said people might make a deal with powerful interests is because if they turn on you, you get nothing.

[saracat]

57. They will give you nothing anyway. Just like the GOP. You do not give them a seat

at the table! Negotiating with them is admitting they have control of the nation and ceding that control to them because you admit they have the right to make demands.Only we can give them that power. I choose not to give it to them. If they shut down whatever they want, let them. JMHO. there is always another way.We we warned by many previous administrations including Eisenhauer about corporate power.It is time to step up and say No.It is not the time to be intimidated and make deals.And I did not "lie".I paraphrased what I felt you implied.

[CreekDog]

60. Again: you have moved on from accusing me of things I never said nor implied

I'm not moving on.

[saracat]

62. Do you not think making deals is a pragamtic approach?

You say they make deals because otherwise a bill could be killed.I say I do not respect that.

[CreekDog]

63. I could be pure or I could expand Medicaid and health care clinics

what if i can't do both?

i know which one i'll choose.

[CreekDog]

51. name one candidate in any party who says they would not *meet* with a lobbyist

you won't find one that any of us have heard of.

i don't even think you know what you are asking for.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[chollybocker]

34. Please stop carting asparagus.

[CreekDog]

35. Fail

she was cartigating asparagus.

completely different. :D

[chollybocker]

42. How about Cartigating Asparaguses?

WIN, cubed. :)

[Bobbie Jo]

52. ~snort~

:rofl:

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

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[dionysus]

38. for some.. it will NEVER be over...

:rofl:
cartigate me if you must...

[Imajika]

39. Try thinking about it this way...

Obama can be against the status quo and still understand that while it exists he has to work within the confines of it.

I mean, the same applies to most of us (perhaps even yourself) right here on DU doesn't it? Many or most of us oppose various laws or perhaps detest some part (or all) of the corporate system in place, but we really have little choice other than to operate by the current rules so long as they are in place.

I think the President is making a broad point that the current system and how lobbyists influence it needs fixing, and I believe most people understand what he means. But until things change, what choice does he have but to use the system to his advantage? Things just don't change over night, and the President has to deal with reality.

I'd bet you even most of the hard core ideologues on both left and right all agree actually. The current system is obviously broken. The problem is, neither side wants the system to change while they are on the outs and stand to lose the most. Same thing kinda holds true with the filibuster rules. At the moment, Democrats hate the filibuster and are furious about its abuse. Let's be real though, if the GOP ends up in 2012 with the kinds of majorities we have now (and the Presidency), there would be dozens of posts on DU daily paying tribute to the "Senate as a cooling saucer of Democracy". We all know it.

[brentspeak]

40. k & r

The cheerleaders don't want the truth to be repeated, but the public needs to hear it.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

41. Post #32 proves you're a liar.

Apparently, you read as well as you spell.

[Jakes Progress]

44. Post #36 proves you're not a good thinker.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

45. No, it proves you can't read.

The article in post #32 says Obama wants lobbyist contacts with the admin exposed and wants to ban them from policy-making jobs and commissions. Billy Tauzin fits none of those criteria, but the OP is trying to shoehorn his visits to the WH as some sort of hypocrisy.

[CreekDog]

46. Exactly so we end up arguing over what Obama said

instead of the merits of actually meeting with lobbyists, a conversation you would think the OP would prefer.

and it makes me think the OP doesn't think Obama is as bad as she says. Otherwise she wouldn't have to embellish the bad things she says he did.

:shrug:

[Jakes Progress]

53. Reading involves more than pronouncing the words.

Reading involves thought and comprehension. But in your interpretation of the lines, Obama is trying to sneak one past the audience, condemning the influence that lobbies have on legislation but carefully choosing words that will allow him to do just that.

I know that the UC has problems with a post when they start parsing sentences and making mountains out of commas. In real life words don't work that way. If this is too complicated, let's try this. You want to buy my car. You offer a thousand dollars and I say "You got a deal" and shake your hand. Ten minutes later a guy offers 12 hundred and I sell it to him. See. I didn't lie. I didn't break my word. Not if you go by the letter of the words. But you would know that I wasn't playing straight. You would know this about the lobby statement if you weren't the guy with the 12 hundred who got the car.

Try arguing this. Obama met regularly with Tauzin who is a slimy rep for big Pharma. After many of these meetings behind closed doors (never mind the campaign talkd of televise negotiations) Pharma gets this deal: The administration will not go after drug prices if Pharma doesn't campaign against HCR. Square that with your parsing.

[saracat]

59. I suggest you listen to what Pres.Obama himself said about this today.

He answered this question at the GOP retreat. I was not pleased with his answer but you decide foer yourself. He continues to appoint lobbyists if he feels their credntials merit it. So I guess only lobbyist, like Tom Daschle , who withdrew, (Thank God,) whom he really likes.

[CreekDog]

48. You meet with him because he can kill your bill if he decides to

I know here in America we believe in statements like "Make my day" and "Hasta la vista baby" as the preferred tough guy way to deal with people of dubious aims/character.

But the simple truth is that because people don't pay attention and because the Senate is not democratically composed, powerful interests can send whatever great idea you have right down the drain.

To think I have to remind a DUer that life isn't fair. :wtf:

[Joe the Revelator]

50. Still out of her mind...

...its like coming home.

[Peacetrain]

56. saracat, I belong to Bread for the World.. and we lobby big time through letters etc

lobbyists come in many stripes, colors and reasons for existence.

[saracat]

58. And there is a differentiation between citizen lobbyist and those representing interests like big

PHarma and Big oil. Weren't we all upset when Bushco was controlled by big oil? Are we to be less upset about big phrama because we have a Dem president?