I totally disagree with the Chris Matthews thread here. This man was in the Peace Corps

[secondwind]

in AFRICA, he goes back EVERY YEAR to visit his host family....it was not the greatest choice of words, but he is NOT a racist, and everyone here needs to chill, and look for something else to worry about.

nuff said.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Scott Baio's wife's best friend is black.

Therefore, Chris Matthews is not racist.

[secondwind]

2. sorry, I still disagree with you....I am here in the Dominican Republic, which is

probably at least 75-80% black, another 10-15 mulatto, and the rest white.

When I first came here 5 years ago, I felt like an alien among so many black, friendly faces. Today, I DON'T SEE THEIR COLOR. This is what Matthews meant. I understand exactly what he meant.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. Secondwind, please.

This post and your OP is just a rehash of the tired old "I'm not racist, I've got lots of black friends" fallacy.

It's an insult to the intelligence of anybody who knows anything about race relations.

[firedupdem]

58. +1 n/t

[Rhiannon12866]

10. He explained his remark when he was on Rachel Maddow's show...

What he said he meant was that race was an issue during the campaign, but it's ceased to be, that Obama has transcended the issue and nobody even thinks about it anymore. I was taken aback at his initial remark, but understood his explanation.

Thanks for the additional information on Matthews' background. He also worked for Jimmy Carter, who was completely color blind.

[butterfly77]

23. If he has transcended the issue...

why do the media and the repugs use it as a prism for every damn thing he does.

Did you see the republiCON response Blacks were featured prominently as though this was suppose to mean something like "See we like black people we even have them in our party,we don't have anything against the President."

[Rhiannon12866]

32. Nobody ever said that Tweety doesn't say dumb things all of the time.

It's one of his trademarks, LOL. While I did accept his explanation, I also got the feeling that somebody shoved him out there and told him that he'd better explain himself... ;)

And I did notice that. They always mange to have a diverse background for these things... (Remember the kid who fell asleep?! LOL.) I've often wondered how they get these folks to participate... :shrug:

[Bucky]

45. I have: I don't think Tweety says dumb things all the time.

Not unless he talks in his sleep.

[Rhiannon12866]

54. I just think that sometimes his mouth gets ahead of his brain...

:-)

[old mark]

93. Gosh - not like anyone we know here, huh? nt

[Rhiannon12866]

95. That's why we need moderators...

;) :hi:

[old mark]

104. But who are the moderators in real life?

[Rhiannon12866]

119. Well, I've been one...

So I think that they're pretty much just like you and me... :shrug: :hi:

[treestar]

87. Remember that photo of McCain surrounded by black people?

There was a caption thread on DU and it was hilarious.

[Rhiannon12866]

91. No, but I can picture it... ;)

However, the most telling remarks came from Bush*, after the same experience, during Katrina... x(

[AlinPA]

46. Why did he even have to say it?

[Rhiannon12866]

52. I think he had a point to make, but didn't succeed in making it...

So Rachel gave him a second chance. :shrug:

[xxqqqzme]

34. That's the way I heard it also

He was just being clumsy w/ his words.

[Rhiannon12866]

120. He often does that; his mouth gets ahead of his brain...

I don't think he's a bigot, worked for Jimmy Carter, and I think he was trying to compliment Obama's speech, but it just came out terribly wrong... x(

[Number23]

35. Oh dear God, NO!!! Not the "I'm the only white person around so now I don't see color!" rationale!

The "since I'm the only white person here, I must put aside my inate prejudices in order to survive!" line of thinking!

Where are my smelling salts??!

[secondwind]

53. chill.....I have a half brother who is like Obama......pls. don't go there

[Number23]

61. Does he know that you're posting this foolishness on the Internet?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. You're just digging yourself into a hole.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

74. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Raineyb]

75. Race police? Look, just because you're in a rush to ingratiate yourself with

a certain subset of people doesn't mean that the rest of us are inclined or even obligated not to call people out on their bullshit.

You may be content to be seen as less than until proven otherwise as opposed to assumed equal to until proved otherwise but a good number of us are not. And it would be appreciated if you didn't delude people into thinking that their sense of superiority was at all warranted.

[Number23]

77. Preach it, Rainey! Has that one outed himself blatantly enough or what??

He's been called out before by other black posters but I never paid him any attention until now.

I (barely) refrained from calling him a "Negro with issues" yesterday. Won't make the same mistake again. It's sad when folks are that far lost and gone that they don't even know where the hell they came from and have no idea where the path is to get back.

[woolldog]

79. which other black posters have called me out before?

:rofl: None. You're making that up.

I've been pro-Obama from the beginning. And I've actually sent Chris Matthews letters regarding some of his comments on race, where he was in the wrong. Not on this one.

btw, If you had bothered to read my Dan Quayle signature you'd realize it's a funny quote that points out his stupidity. But reading doesn't seem to be your strong suit....

[Number23]

80. Would you just shuffle your happy self along??

All of these people riding your ass and you keep coming after me! I'm happily married and sooo not into self-loathing "brothers" anyway, hon.

And since you obviously did read my post before it was deleted, you should know that it was ANOTHER black poster who commented on how stupid you and your Dan Quayle signature was, not me. Now run along now, errrr... woolldog. The more you type, the harder you just keep playing yourself.

Edit: Oh and including myself, that's at least 4 black posters so far that have called you out. That I know of... 3 of whom just since yesterday! You're on a roll! :rofl:

[woolldog]

82. All these people?

Who? You and Raineyb?

No one else has commented on my signature and I think most people get the Dan Quayle signature. I think it's funny as hell and that's all that matters.

You can call me every name in the book it doesn't change the fact that your response was kneejerk and not well thought out....oh, and wrong.

[firedupdem]

59. Amazing huh? Just when I think I've seen it all... n/t

[bbgrunt]

62. I know what he means too.....although it

sounded very awkward. Even if you are not a racist, in this society one of the first things you notice about people is their race. I think all windsocket matthews was saying is that he finally felt beyond that with the president. It tends to happen when you feel friendship or even a familiarity with someone. Of course, that does not mean he feels that way about everyone of color.

[Raineyb]

63. Today you don't see their color? Why? Have you gone blind over the last 5 years? n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

4. Weakest counter-argument ever...

:eyes:

Scott Baio and /or his wife have NO connection to Chris Matthews that's been noted in the public press. However, Chris Matthews WAS in the Peace Corps.

If that's your best...:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Would you prefer...

"Strom Thurmond fucked a black teenager?"

[Dennis Donovan]

11. Wow... even weaker...

:shrug:

[secondwind]

55. you will be hard pressed to find any racists in the Peace Corps in Africa...

[Raineyb]

64. Really? You think so? There are racists that have no problems having sex with black people

while considering them subhuman.

Strom Thurman comes to mind.

That is an unbelievably weak argument and very few people buy it.

[fishwax]

68. what makes you say that?

:shrug:

[Raineyb]

69. I have a theory. It's not a very nice one though. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

100. LOL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

101. Not really.

[TexasObserver]

5. Mark Fuhrman once wanted to date Vanity.

I think that proves Chris Matthews is not racist even more than Scott Baio's wife. We don't even know her race!

[NatBurner]

17. who didn't?

david duke would've held her hand at the mall

[TexasObserver]

25. Patty Duke might have. Bill Duke would have.

But David Duke?

I don't think so. He was more virulent than Fuhrman.

[roguevalley]

39. I remember sun down laws, segregation and Jim Crow. Tweety is

sincerely, sincerely ernest in his remarks. He sees the good and not the color divide and from someone of his generation, my generation, that is a good, good thing. Chris Matthews isn't a racist.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

43. I'm sure he's sincere and earnest.

And he's a fucking racist.

[dmr]

121. I don't like Tweety, but IMHO, he's not a racist. n/t

[hlthe2b]

3. He expalined his comments well later on Rachel Maddow (midnight or so)

I think that video may be up, but I can't search for it right now.... Perhaps secondwind, you could find and direct people that are thinking the worst to that video.

[Dennis Donovan]

6. Thank you. There's much to be said about Tweety...

...but racism isn't one of them.:thumbsup:

[Rhiannon12866]

33. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=158745&mesg_id=158776

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=428316&mesg_id=428316

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=428412&mesg_id=428412

[Dennis Donovan]

47. Exactly!

:thumbsup:

[Rhiannon12866]

51. Thanks.

I've been saying this since I saw both of Tweety's statements last night. The first one did shock me, but then I heard his explanation. I'm thinking that he didn't initially realize how his first comment came off... x(

And I included both of the videos, in case you hadn't seen them. :hi:

[Raineyb]

66. Piss poor explanation it was too. He showed his true colors (pardon the pun)

with his first comment.

[Blue_In_AK]

8. I agree with you.

Chris puts his foot in his mouth fairly regularly, but I didn't see his comment as racist at all, just an acknowledgement of a reality of American life, that we DO tend to see people in terms of color and that Obama has transcended that. I thought he was paying the president a compliment.

I was having a similar thought about Morgan Freeman not too long ago.

[butterfly77]

27. Why are blacks singled out ..

then when they have been in this country longer than most who come here..

Morgan Freeman and other celebrities are suppose to be different but sometimes when people talk they fail to realize that these people are black too and their families are black.

When they make up things about blacks or put monkees in the newspapers supposedly representing our president many blacks even whites or other races who have black children see this as a strike at them too.

[Blue_In_AK]

31. I wonder if black people

ever say to themselves, "that guy's so cool, I never even consider that he's white." It may happen, you know.

[BunkerHill24]

12. Personally, as much as I dislike Mr. Tweety-dunderhead, I think he meant no harm

'Nuff said.

[Nite Owl]

13. Matthews may be a lot of things,

the list is long, but racist isn't one of them.

[AlinPA]

50. Start of list: jerk, slob, fool, loudmouth, ..

[rhett o rick]

14. He may not be a racist but is a french fry short of a happy meal. nt

[CreekDog]

15. I agree

When people thought Bill Clinton was racist in 2008, I disagreed. Did he act despicably? Yes. Did that make him a racist? Not necessarily. And since I wasn't sure, I had to look at the sum total of his record and his words and I just didn't see it.

In the case of Clinton, I do believe he thought little of Obama, I do believe he was infuriated that Obama came out of nowhere and was beating Hillary, but I think he would have said the same things about a young white candidate (although to different venues owing to the nature of the South Carolina campaign).

I believe we do a disservice to racial awareness when we don't do more to distinguish apparent racist remarks made from a place where they actively seek to do darm (Trent Lott...segregation...civil rights...etc) versus the clumsy remarks that are born of something completely different.

A lot of people who mean well, who don't think less of black folks and who support civil rights put their foot in their mouth from time to time when it comes to race. To lump them in with Strom Thurmond or David Duke does a disservice to calling out racism.

[Tumbulu]

24. excellent post- I agree with you (nt)

[noamnety]

38. I have to disagree with you about clinton

not because of his words in 2008 specifically, but because of his actions while he was president. Words can be clumsy, stupid, thoughtless, whatever. But I don't believe he ever would have enacted sanctions that killed a half million lily white children with the same apathetic shrug as he and his administration displayed about the iraqi children who were killed. That was as racist an act as any genocide ever is.

[DrToast]

60. Clinton wasn't a racist. He was exploiting racist fears.

I'll let others decide which is worse.

[CreekDog]

70. Well you are right

Not sure one is supposed to be better or worse.

[treestar]

88. I agree with your last paragraph

How it improves race relations to jump all over people as if they are KKK members for saying the wrong thing - and some of that you have to learn. Like that having a friend of a particular race does not count - or on the internets, will always be assumed to be a fake.

[gauguin57]

16. I knew exactly what Matthews was saying when he said it. I totally understood.

He's not a racist. He's just a blurt-out-the-first-thing-that-comes-into-your-head kind of guy.

[stray cat]

18. If you notice or comment on someone being a male or female are you sexist?

of just minimally observant. Maybe the racist or sexist are those who pretend neither racism or sexism exists making it an even bigger deal by actively ignoring it.

[roguevalley]

41. somehow and somewhere we have to talk about this no matter

how inelegant it might be at first. people with heart like tweety are stepping out without a net. I don't see the blame in that.

[lib_wit_it]

90. Yep. A concept Stephen Colbert gets a lot of comedic mileage out of.

[butterfly77]

19. I don't know if he is a racist...

but from what I can tell he and some of his buddies seem to think that they are superior as though only caucasians are the end all and be all. I have never seen them ask questions of a president the way they do this one,they want him to explain every little detail of what he is doing in his personal life.

Now we know there is a vetting process for President but some of things they asked of him were ridiculous. While they were harping on his church and his preacher,their little boy wonder (Edwards) was running around doing who knows what.

[sandnsea]

22. Yes, a white superiority mindset

Lots of white people don't monitor the thoughts that go through their minds so they never recognize that very subtle (to white people) form of racism.

[AspenRose]

49. White Privilege.

[DRoseDARs]

20. Tweety must be the most articulate inarticulate man on TV. I agree, he was just being his dim self.

[cry baby]

21. agree wit'cha secondwind nt

[TexasObserver]

26. He's not racist. He's clumsy and clueless.

[Hekate]

28. Thanks, because this got ridiculous here within 10 minutes of his having said it.

At Chris Matthews' age, there's no cure for foot-in-mouth disease. I was going, "Oh Tweety, just shut up," as he fumbled with the concept, even though I understood what he was trying to say.

I think a lot of us look at Barack Obama, we know very well he's a black man, but what we SEE is the President of the United States. Our President. The office fits him like a well-tailored suit.

Obama's blackness/ mixed-race heritage/ etc. isn't a "so-what"-- it's who he is, and he's given it considerable thought -- in public, in books written by himself -- which invites discourse rather than shutting it down.

But you know what Tweety's real "crime" was? (and is--because he'll do it again) Talking about an individual person's race like that is socially unacceptable. It's not a slur, it's not racism -- we are just not supposed to talk about it and we are supposed to pretend that we do not notice what is one of the most influential characteristics a person is born with, in terms of their past, present and future.

"Transcend"? "Post-racial"? Not hardly.

That's what candidate Obama's Jeremiah Wright speech was about. The things we (generic "we") say when we think only our friends are listening. The things we think inside our heads, but pretend we do not. The things that we really should discuss in a civil manner. In public.

Hekate

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Thank you. At his age he is less color blind than many of us, that is his "sin"

He still vivedly recalls all of the barriers that kept blscks down, and because he is a motor mouth with no impulse control, when a thought occurs to him he says it out loud. Mathews can't get over the way America is changing around race. It's not that he doesn't support those changes, he just never really expected to see them happen at this level so soon. His mind's eye sees Obama and he thinks "I can't beliee we really have an African American President." He watches the SOTU and he thinks, "This is amazing, it all seems so normal, his race is of no concern, wow."

What Mathews is doing at times like this is proving that we are not yet all post racial as a society, race is still a part of his conscious world, but it does not prove that he supports racism. To the contrary, I think likes the positive change immensely and he just can't stop commenting on it. He is somewhat fixated on the erosion of racism in America, and brings that perspective to non racial situations, but he personally opposes racism.

[boppers]

36. Interesting post, and perspective.

Kind of like hearing men in their 60's talking about how "they had female colleagues who were just as good as men"... not realizing that the verbiage they still use implies something different than what they intended. The verbiage itself is steeped in the attitudes and dialect of explicit discrimination.

[Fire1]

30. Good for you. Opinions are like assholes. n/t

[Number23]

37. I don't think I've ever unrec'd a thread faster than this one.

Please stop trying to rationalize what was an idiotic and racially offensive statement. Your comment that because Chris Matthews visits Africa every year that this makes him "not a racist" is so cringe-worthingly embarrasing and tone deaf it makes you sound as though you are 197 years old.

Matthews may not be a racist, and I don't think that very many people actually believe that he is a racist, but he has said some incredibly racist things. Yesterday was no exception. That is the reality.

[Romulox]

40. Have you seen his show? The man's a slobbering mental midget. nt

[SemiCharmedQuark]

42. Did you miss his racist love fest with Pat Buchanan last year?

How Irish only firehouses are a tradition?

[butterfly77]

57. Mike Barnicle,Matthews..

and some other talking heads were having a love fest during the 2008 Campaign especially when they thought Obama was going to win. They spent a lot of time telling everyone how the Irish wouldn't vote for a black man and how they see the world as though they were the whole country.

They seem to be doing their damndest to convince the voters of Pennsylvania not to vote for a black man. They talked about about how they went to little coffee shops and what the thinking was among old white males. They even tried to talk down the black vote..

[tallahasseedem]

44. I don't think he is either...

I completely knew what he was getting at.

[Phx_Dem]

48. I agree. He's more of a verbal baffoon than anything else.

It was a horrible choice of words and he should be deeply embarrassed, but I don't think it's anything more than that. He likes President Obama, even though he disagrees with him or rails against him from time to time.

[themaguffin]

56. I agree, his comment was stupid, but intent was meant to be positive

[Raineyb]

67. His intent doesn't change how offensive his comment is.

Let me repeat since people seem to be having trouble with the notion. Just because you say something and mean it to be a compliment doesn't mean it's 1. not offensive, 2. not based in a certain racist mindset and 3. not worthy of a proper apology.

Intention doesn't mean shit. If you've offended someone you've offended them and that comment was damn offensive.

[themaguffin]

72. and some people have trouble reading.

For example, I didn't say that the comment was not offensive. I am merely pointing out that Matthews was trying to say something very positive.

And that is being dismissed outright.

[Raineyb]

76. And apparently you have trouble reading. I'm saying that his intent doesn't mitigate the

offensiveness of his comment. You seem to be under the impression that as long as what he meant to say was positive we should give him a pass on the offensiveness; that it's a wash. What I'm saying is that doesn't matter at all. I am dismissing it because it doesn't matter in light of the fact that what he said was offensive. What part of that is too hard for you to understand?

Let's try this, if I were to come up to you and say "You're pretty clued in for a white person." Would you you consider that a complement?

[woolldog]

78. Wrong

"Let's try this, if I were to come up to you and say "You're pretty clued in for a white person." Would you you consider that a complement?"

Except Matthews said nothing even remotely resembling this. He didn't say, for example, "Obama is so smart, I forget he's black." That would be offensive because it suggests that being black and smart are somehow opposed.

He said essentially "Obama is post racial, despite all of this country's racial baggage, we seem to have been able to move beyond the old tribalisms etc, and move past "race" as something defining/limiting, something which would have been unthinkable 40 years ago.

Big difference.

That isn't offensive.

[Raineyb]

81. First of all we're not post racial. That's delusional bullshit that certain

people keep pushing so they don't have to actually do anything about the racial issues that still exist in this country. You can push the post racial line until the cows come home but it doesn't' make it true. Secondly, Tweety and his ilk NEVER forget that Obama is black when Obama does something that they don't like. It's only when he does things in a way they think a smart person will do it that they "forget" that he's black because in their thinking smart = white. And THAT is the reason why it's offensive as hell. If you do things just like certain white people think you should then they "forget" you're black and as soon as you do things in a way they don't think they should they remember real quick how black you are. Ask Tiger Woods if you don't believe me.

And it is in that context that makes that comment as offensive as hell.

Like I've said, you may be in a rush to ingratiate yourself with a certain subset of people by whitewashing (pardon the pun) certain nasty attitudes which arise from white privilege in this country but I am not.

And you are dead wrong.

[woolldog]

83. now we're getting somewhere.....

Look I agree with you that Matthews comments were stupid. I agree with you that he's wrong on the substance of what he said. I agree with you that this idea that Obama has taken us to a post-racial place in American politics/society is WRONG, because he has not. And Matthews comments themselves underline that. My point is very simply that there's a difference between what you're alleging he was saying (which I would find offensive), and his actual point, which is why the context is important here. It's not like I love Chris Matthews either. He's said some offensive stuff in the past.

Secondly if you've read a lot of my posts, you'd know I'm not here to ingratiate myself to anybody. I didn't hesitate to call out some of the latent racism here on DU and in the Clinton campaign. And was attacked and took plenty of grief for it. My posting style: most don't like it, some do, but I don't care. If I have a point to make I'm going to make it, and I don't care whose feathers it ruffles.

[themaguffin]

84. I had no trouble reading that. For you to suggest that what you are suggesting

means that you are not reading properly.

You are incredibly dense to not be able to comprehend the point that i was making.

[Raineyb]

85. Dense? Sweetie, if you want to see dense I'd suggest a mirror.

But I will try once more and I'll use smaller words so you can understand since the concept of inference and implication are foreign to you.

Here is why what Tweety said was offensive DESPITE his "positive" intentions.

When Tweety says that he forgot that Obama was black for an hour, he wasn't saying here's a man, the president of our country, who making a speech to the nation and I appreciated what he had to say and I appreciate him AS HE IS. What he's implying is "this man just did something in a way that I approve of and it shows him to be an intelligent, capable man, and none of these adjectives can describe a black man because by default black people aren't really as good as we white folk are." So he "forgot" that Obama was black. However, the second Obama does something Tweety doesn't like Tweety will remember very quickly just how black Obama is. (And as I've said before if you don't believe me ask Tiger Woods) It is NOT a compliment to be told that someone forgot you were black because when people say that what they mean is you're too pretty, smart, competent, well spoken to be black because none of those adjectives are really words to describe black people. What they are really trying to say is you're pretty (for a black girl) or you're smart (for a black person) you're competent (for a black person) and there is nothing complimentary about any of those sentences. So while I'm sure you believe that the point Tweety was trying to make was positive. And I'm sure Tweety thinks he was trying to pay Obama a compliment it was in fact NOT complimentary at all. So while he may have meant to be complimentary I'm not inclined to not take offense at such an offensive statement because it was meant to be a compliment. And I don't know why it is you think I or anyone else should pretend that the comment was less offensive than it was. Do YOU appreciate backhanded compliments when you receive them?

Oh right, being white in this country means never having to be told "you're fill in the compliment (for a white person)"

[themaguffin]

97. and you go back to repeating the same misguided statements

The offense of his statement is not being denied. My comments related to the extreme comments (inluding this thread) on Matthews' entire character in relation to these issues. Yes he can be an ass and has said more than his fair of assinine things.

He gets excited and in short, was (trying) say what a step forward President Obama giving a State of the Union was. I don't think he is naive enough to believe that the country is beyond racial issues and racism. Of course, sadly, it is not.

[Raineyb]

98. Then stop downplaying it! How the hell do you expect anyone to think that you're

not denying the offensiveness of his statement when you bend over backwards to make excuses for it.

And why exactly do you think he doesn't think he believes the country is beyond racial issues and racism. What exactly do you think people are saying when they say "post racial?" People say post racial because they don't want to hear any actual complaints about racism so they come up with this "post racial" mantra as though because we managed to elect one black man to the highest office in the country we've managed to eradicate racism from the country. Post racial was the phrase that preceded the "I forgot he was black" comment. Of course the "I forgot he was black" comment completely negates the post racial assertion to begin with but then since he "meant well" we're supposed to not apply logic to thing we hear apparently.

[themaguffin]

103. I am not making excuses. You are arguing another argument

This forum wants to hang someone in totality and that doesn't make sense. AGAIN BECAUSE YOU CAN"T READ my comments are about the DU response.

If you want to continue to argue about what Matthews said do it one of the 100 places here to do so, but don't respond with points for a different argument to me.

[Raineyb]

105. You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. Let's go to how this started shall we?

You said:

I agree, his comment was stupid, but intent was meant to be positive

That has NOTHING to do with the DU response. THAT is an excuse for the offensive comment that Matthews said. And I called you on it. My reply was "What does that have to do with the offensiveness of Matthew's comment"

To which you replied:

and some people have trouble reading.

For example, I didn't say that the comment was not offensive. I am merely pointing out that Matthews was trying to say something very positive.

And that is being dismissed outright.

Once again no mention of DU. To which I gladly admitted that I was dismissing his intent as his intent hadn't a damn thing to do with the offensiveness of the comment. In addition, I also pointed out that you were under the impression that if his intent was positive then we shouldn't make a big deal out of it. A notion I dismissed outright as one's intention doesn't mitigate one's offensiveness.

So you continue:

I had no trouble reading that. For you to suggest that what you are suggesting

means that you are not reading properly.

You are incredibly dense to not be able to comprehend the point that i was making.

Once again there is absolutely NO mention of DU in this continuing back and forth. So you accuse me of repeating the same points. Which admittedly I have to because your reading comprehension skills are rather lacking. Then you keep on with the excuse making:

and you go back to repeating the same misguided statements

The offense of his statement is not being denied. My comments related to the extreme comments (inluding this thread) on Matthews' entire character in relation to these issues. Yes he can be an ass and has said more than his fair of assinine things.

He gets excited and in short, was (trying) say what a step forward President Obama giving a State of the Union was. I don't think he is naive enough to believe that the country is beyond racial issues and racism. Of course, sadly, it is not.

This is the first mention of the rest of the thread which frankly hasn't a damn thing to do with any of the points I am making. You keep making arguments based on things that haven't a damn thing to do with what I actually said. To which I said "Then stop trying to downplay what he said! I also made several cogent points about making excuses to which your reply is that you're not making excuses. Immediately followed by an excuse. You've done NOTHING in this sub thread BUT make excuses while claiming not to be making any. Here's a hint if you say "well Matthews was just excited" That is an excuse. If you say, "He just said it badly he meant to say something positive" THAT is an excuse. If you say "Well he says asinine things but..." THAT is an excuse. Don't get pissed off and tell me I'm making a different argument than the one you're making when I'm responding to exactly what the hell you actually wrote. *I* am not having a problem reading what you wrote and comprehending. I am making my arguments based on what the hell you wrote. The person who is having problems reading in this sub thread is YOU and it's your own posts that you seem incapable of comprehending. You seem to be under the impression that you've written one thing when you've actually written something quite different then are getting mad at me for replying to what you've actually written.

Tweety has quite a history of saying things that are downright offensive, he also has a history of allowing his guests to get away with saying things that are downright offensive (Pat Buchanan) so I'm not at all inclined to tell anyone who wants to rip Tweety a new one that they're being too hard on him. Frankly I don't think they are. And while I'm on the subject, I'm not too thrilled with the number of people looking to make up reasons as to why what he said wasn't as bad as people think it is. This seems to happen any time someone that enough people on DU like says something offensive. Especially when it comes down to something racist, we've always got plenty of white people telling black people why they should not feel as though something someone said was offensive, which in and of itself is offensive. Of course it is entirely your prerogative to say these things but don't be surprised when someone calls you on it and then get all huffy because they refuse to let you dance around it unchallenged. And don't pretend that the argument you were making was different than the one you've actually made. And don't accuse me of not reading when the person who isn't reading is you.

[themaguffin]

106. I don't care to go in circles. My comment is in reference to the response on Matthews not

to dispute the offensiveness of Matthews comments. Jesus, this place is getting to be very irrationale.

[Raineyb]

107. Then you did a piss poor job in the post I had originally responded to.

Because as I quoted, you made no mention of the thread WHATSOEVER until a couple of responses in. Irrational? I used straight logic and your own words to refute what you've claimed. Just because you can't keep up doesn't mean that this place is getting irrational. Get your argument together next time or find someone who can't read to have the argument with.

It seems like what you're saying is you don't care to continue because you can't win the argument. That would be irrationality on your part. Please refrain from projecting your own weaknesses onto others.

[themaguffin]

109. No, you are fighting with someone else because your comments are not relevant to my point

[Raineyb]

110. No YOUR comments were not relevant to MY point. Yet you insist on continuing

with comments that have nothing to do with the points I'm making while pretending that you're actually making an argument. If you don't like my points then you shouldn't have bothered to even reply to the first one. But if you're going to reply you damn well ought to make sure it's actually has something to do with what I said otherwise you're getting called out as either being disingenuous or an imbecile. (Although there's no reason to pick one.)

[themaguffin]

111. No you jumped into my response with an irrelevant discussion, period.

And I called you on it. If you choose to ignore the point I was making fine, then ignore, but don't bring your desire to argue another point with me. I made a point about something and your ranting about something else.

[Raineyb]

112. I responded to the point you made. You seem to be under the impression that you need not bother

respond to mine. And to date you STILL haven't done so. I know exactly what point I intended to argue and chose the response I replied to appropriately. Your inability to make your argument doesn't make my response a rant nor does it make it irrelevant.

[themaguffin]

114. I did respond that your point is irrelevant to mine, it's as if you responded to wrong comment and

won't let it go. Your inability to understand that and actually discuss your point with whomever you attempted to disagree with is what makes your points irrelevant.

[Raineyb]

115. That's not a response. And for your information YOU are not the arbiter of what is relevant

Just because you don't want to answer a question or respond to a point (which WAS relevant. Perhaps you should check a dictionary you seem to be having a bit of trouble with the definition) doesn't mean it wasn't relevant.

I actually MADE my points. Your inability or unwillingness to respond to what I said rather than what the imbecile voices in your head said I said does not change that.

You have a fucking nerve deciding that because you don't want to address something that it's not relevant. Anyone who reads this sub thread can easily see that YOU are the one who refused to address the point. Your declarations doesn't hide the fact that you're not at all bright and you can't make your argument.

Perhaps you should continue this conversation with the voices in your head since you can't actually make a cogent point.

[themaguffin]

116. Yes it was irrelevant and yes I know what is relevant to my point

You can continue to go in circles and waste time, but after about 2 responses I stopped reading the same crap over again. You can reply again and restate irrelevant points if you want.

I'll just refer you to see above because, again I am not (and have not) bothered to read recyled points of argument that you seem to want to have with me about something that I don't disagree with you about. It's truly odd.

This is the last post that I will even waste this much time. You can reply again and I will simply refer you to my previous response.

[Raineyb]

117. No it wasn't and frankly it would be a hell of a lot more honest if you'd just admit you weren't

interested in answering the point in the first place. Which you've STILL not addressed.

And I'm not surprised you'd try to refer me to your same specious response. What else would I expect from a piss poor excuse for a debater?

[themaguffin]

118. keep trying

I wasn't debating you. I addressed the OP about a point and you reply to me, on a different aspect of which I don't disagree

[Lyric]

99. I'd like to take your words and frame them.

They apply to all oppressed minorities. There are some here who think that just because someone didn't "intend" it to be offensive, that people who WERE offended should STFU. I think that there's some cognitive disconnect going on in which some of us have a hard time accepting the fact that even people who are not usually bigots CAN make bigoted statements--and should apologize for them. Not every person who says something offensive is a "racist" or a "homophobe" overall--but that doesn't mean that someone who's ordinarily open-minded and tolerant should be able to get away with making bigoted statements, either.

He should apologize profusely, period.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

102. It may have been positive towards Obama.

But insulting to black people.

It was the equivalent of saying "you're one of the good ones."

[Clio the Leo]

73. Tweety is AWESOME .....

.... and anyone who disagrees can suck it.

~ end of story ~

[treestar]

86. Lou Dobbs is married to a Mexican woman

These things do not apparently "cure" one of racism.

It would be interesting to hear what the host family has to say. Or Mrs. Dobbs.

[SimonPhoenix]

108. Do you think that everyone who is opposed to illegal immigration is racist?

Just asking.

[Raineyb]

113. The point is Lou Dobbs is despite his marriage to a Mexican woman. n/t

[zulchzulu]

89. I want to know who actually saw the clip when it was broadcast...

Yes, (as usual) Matthews was reaching for some commentary without fully understanding that his actual admiration for Obama was going to be taken out of context and regurgitated as "racist", much like the Teabaggers throw around the work "Marxist" and "Nazi" when talking about Obama.

A bad choice of words under the gun to come out with some clever banter... but it's a hobby for some to just make asses out of themselves bloviating that Matthews is a "racist"...

[RBInMaine]

92. He was talking about how Obama has transcended the racial divide. Maybe not expressed perfectly,

but he's not racist. That is very unfair. It is never easy to discuss race in such a way without some risk of misunderstanding.

[Raineyb]

96. Oh please! Spare me the transcendent bullshit. Why is it that white politicians NEVER

have to transcend the racial divide? What does that imply?

When we start talking about white politicians "transcending race" then maybe we can have a serious conversation. As long as the terms of the discussion are steeped in the white supremacist notion that black people have to get beyond their race in order to get up to the white man's level this conversation will not go well. Because a large number of people will correctly point out the insult in certain "compliments" like Tweety's "forgetting" Obama's blackness while others will insist on making excuses and refusing to understand the implications in the statement even when it's clearly pointed out to them.

You know, like in this thread.

[RBInMaine]

122. Your thought process is obviously very limited. If you are in some way insulted by my very reason-

able comment, it only showcases your own sad self-imposed limitations. Obama is widely viewed as a transformational figure who has indeed bridged a certain racial divide that remains in the nation despite our considerable progress over the decades. This is complementary and good for the country. How could you possibly be offended by such a self-evident observation? Your over-sensitivity to the larger issue clouds and skews your thought process. My advice is lighten up, step outside your bias, and be more careful to consider an entire context before hurling out the "racism" card. That is what thoughtful people do. (Yes, Matthews may have been a bit clumsy in word choice, and he should clarify it, but he was simply making that point. No need or call to brand him a "racist." That is very unfair and over the top. C'mon.)

[quaker bill]

94. For a guy who makes

the sort of money Matthews makes, doing what Matthews does for a living, he is occasionally stunningly inarticulate. While this particular line is memorable for its pure hamfistedness, there were several more moments where the other hosts and pundits struggled to sidestep one of his now famous verbal train wrecks.

He would do better to speak a bit less, listen more to his guests, and curtail his often curious metaphors and analogies. He often asks pretty good questions and is fairly good at driving for a direct answer. He should stick to that, and do it perhaps a little more politely.

I think what he was trying to convey is that with the passage of time one is tempted to underappreciate the simple observation that this was the first time a black man has ever given the SOTU address, something many thought they would not see in their lifetimes. After a year this is now pretty much taken for granted as it should be. The fact that it is now taken for granted is comment worthy. Unfortunately, he did it rather poorly.