Obama did great today. Took names and kicked ass...Just one small complaint

[Armstead]

He was great. He went into the lion's den, and ate the lions.

My only complaint was at one (or maybe two) points, the GOP mouthbreaters said things like "We want to do this without more government involvement."

I wish Obama had tossed back with a good liberal response like:

"We need more government involvement. Look at what's happened to the healthcare system without it. The private sector did not do the job, and that's why we need government."

Otherwise, he done real good.

[ClassWarrior]

1. Well said, Arm, and I couldn't agree more.

NGU, Obama, NGU...

[Armstead]

2. I hate to sound stupid but....

NGU?

Wazzat?

[jgraz]

3. NGU? Dude, it's obvious.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-gonococcal_urethritis

[ClassWarrior]

5. Yeah, that... or...

Never Give Up.

:headbang:

NGU.

[Armstead]

9. Ah...Okay, now I get it

Duh

[Armstead]

6. Hey I'm just a square I guess...or at least never had a case of that one

(knock on wood)

[ClassWarrior]

8. And no question is stupid.

Except, "Where do you keep your copies of 'Going Rogue?'"

NGU.

[Armstead]

10. Under the bed

I go for those wilderness types





....kidding!

[ClassWarrior]

28. LOL

NGU.

[jgraz]

4. You aren't going to hear that from Obama.

What he needs to do is have this same session with the House Progressive Caucus. *Then* we'll hear a debate about the proper role of government.

[Armstead]

7. That'd be interesting

[jgraz]

12. I called Barbara Lee's office today to suggest it

Obama needs to reach out to progressives, instead of sending out Rahm to call us "fucking retarded".

[avaistheone1]

33. Thank you for doing that.

I will help bring the point home. I will call my congress critter Pete Stark and let him know that I fully expect Obama to give the Progressives our due time and then some.

[ClassWarrior]

11. Awesome suggestion.

Let's call for it.

NGU.

[jgraz]

13. I already did. Call the White House and progressive House members.

Let's make it happen.

[dkf]

14. He is NOT going to tell everyone he wants big government.

That scares the bejeebers out of a segment of the population. He did it perfect.

[Armstead]

15. We need to start defending the role of government as a helpful ally

That's been the major problem since Reagan. The GOP has scared people about government, so the power has shifted to Big Corporations

[dkf]

16. I'm okay with sneaking it in til they realize the benefits.

Then we can say "told ya so".

[jgraz]

18. "Sneaking it" will only increase the anti-government paranoia

Just step up and lead. It's so simple.

[dkf]

20. The populace doesn't even get that medicare is the ultimate public option.

It's hilarious.

[jgraz]

25. So how would "sneaking" fix that problem?

The only path out of this mess is to be bold and to be up-front about what you're doing. *THEN* when you win, your "I told you so" has some teeth.

[boppers]

22. You know the people screaming "Keep government out of my Medicare!"

That's the problem.

They don't want the government involved in Medicare, or Social Security, because "the government might mess it up".

If your head is spinning right about now, that's the barrier that needs to be crossed.

[jgraz]

23. And how do you fix that?

You do it by stating the truth over and over again. You don't do it by running away from your principles.

[dkf]

27. What is the truth?

Mother Russia wasn't a great thing. There is definitely a point at which government becomes a problem instead of the solution. I think there is a happy medium out there. The trick is to find it. I definitely think that if covering all Americans is a priority the correct vehicle is a public option.

[jgraz]

36. We are miles to the right of the "happy medium". Incrementalism will not cut it.

As an example, the United States is the only developed country in the world where it isn't a crime to sell basic health insurance for profit. Why isn't that a talking point for Democrats? They don't have to propose outlawing health insurance, they just have to remind people where the *real* center is.

[dkf]

37. That would make a whole lot of normal people criminals

Like I said it won't translate well. And you know how the chest beaters think we are perfect and everyone else is a commie. They are not rational. It does you no good to try to change their worldview.

[Armstead]

42. Don;t worry about the worldview of the wingnuts...the challenge is to make liberalism seem safe

[boppers]

30. I'd do it by positioning the republicans (with their help) as "against government run health care".

*Then* I'd point out that it means that they're effectively against Medicare and Tri-Care.

I'd do it by giving the rethugs a *lot* of rope, and collecting soundbites, and then showing seniors and vets in ads, to emphasize the point that while government run healthcare may, indeed, suck, republican governance, on a platform *without* government healthcare, would be a national disaster.

Saying "no, really, we're good!" doesn't work as well as "hey, we're humble enough to admit that we suck at times, but what they want is magnitudes worse".

[jgraz]

17. It will continue to scare people until someone steps into the debate

What you saw today was someone who is more than capable of winning that debate and educating that segment of the population. If only he'd choose to do it...

[dkf]

19. Except some have a gag reflex.

They can't help it. Big government is big brother to some. You won't convince them overnight.

[jgraz]

21. Exactly my point. The 'Pukes worked 30 years to change public opinion

And they never once shied away from ideas that people might disagree with. They just repeated their nonsense over and over until it started to sound true.

Progressives have the advantage of being right. We should just say what we think and let the dumbasses scream about it.

[dkf]

24. Big brother wasn't invented by repubs.

The concept doesn't creep you out a bit?

[jgraz]

26. How is what I'm suggesting Big Brother?

The Repukes repeated lies for 30 years until everyone believed them. The Democrats ran away from the truth for 30 years until no one trusted them.

How is standing up for what's right "Big Brother"?

[dkf]

29. Just saying that government can overreach so the key is moderation

[Armstead]

31. We are so far from government overreaching as far as the economy and safety net

[boppers]

32. In 1949...

The government could not get records of all of your phone calls within seconds.
The government could not get records of all of your international travel records within seconds.
The government could not get records of all of your tax returns within seconds.
The government could not get records of all of your debts within hours.
The government could not get records of all of your assets within hours.
The government could not get records of all of your purchases within hours.

Where Orwell got it wrong was that he focused on televisions (it was the highest tech he knew), and ever since then, people have been freaking out about cameras, and ignoring "the rest"... but "the rest" is much faster (and more efficient).

For example, two grocery cards are used to purchase, *weekly*:
a) 1 gal milk, 1 doz eggs, 1 loaf of bread, 1 bottle cranberry juice, 1 12-pack of beer, 2 melons, 1 lb. broccoli.
b) 1 gal milk, 1 doz eggs, 1 bottle of nail-polish remover, 1 bottle of first-aid hydrogen peroxide, 1 bottle of wine, 2 chicken fryers, 1 loaf of bread.

The latter could be flagged, with strong reason, the former, with slightly more tentative reason.

[Armstead]

43. So can corporations...

[JI7]

34. there are things like abortion rights where we want govt to stay out

[Armstead]

41. but not economic justice /nt

[Meldread]

35. I may be out of the mainstream of DU on this issue...

...but I have never understood the belief that more government equals good. Certainly, I believe there are necessary and clear roles that the government needs to fill. However, in my mind, even those "necessary" roles are undesirable. For example, we need the government to consider national defense. Ideally, in a perfect world, the government would not need or be required to hold that role - we'd have no threats against us. We'd be safe. When you allow the government to fill that role, bad things happen, and individual freedoms begin to be rolled back in the name of "national security." We end up with a military industrial complex. That's just one example.

We could also discuss education, and how public education is subject to politicization. In some cases - perhaps even in many cases - knowledge is denied or compromised in an attempt to please the public. We can see this playing out in things like sex education and evolution.

Finally, few here that believe government equals good seem to acknowledge the fact that they are effectively handing the reigns of power and government over to the Republicans just as much as the Democrats, and in truth neither party really has OUR (the individuals) best interests at heart. Just imagine having a health care system similar to the one in the UK where everything is run by the government. Since no one wants to raise taxes, everybody loves war, what are the things first to get cut when it comes to paying for stuff? Education and health care. Always.

For me personally, when it comes to a health care system I would like to see ours modeled more after France and Japan than after the UK or Canada. After all, if you're going to pick a health care system, why not pick one of the better rated ones in the world like France? (Their system is rated #1 by the WHO.) We could look at their system, look at our system, see what has worked for them, why it's worked for them, what didn't work for them, and what is applicable to us as we build our own system here in the United States.

In my mind, the government is never really desirable or good, but is an option of last resort. It exists to protect us from abuse or exploitation, from the Health Insurance Companies for example, or it appears to fill a much needed niche that doesn't otherwise exist or is required for a high functioning first world democracy, operating some form of public education as an example.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. I have one small complaint, too. There were many times when a Repuke used "DemoCRAT"

rather than "DemocraTIC" Party!! :puke::puke:

The president should have corrected them on that. It just grates my nerves because they know exactly what they are doing. Subtle digs that Democrats allow the Repukes to get away with. Tweety is the only one who corrects them every time...and I can't stand Tweety but I cheer when he does it.

[Armstead]

40. Yes. that too

[hileeopnyn8d]

44. Did you see his eyes narrow

and his lips thin when they said that? From the look on his face I expected him to say something.

These people are such assholes it's almost incomprehensible. I agree with you about Tweety, he does call them out every time, he's even asked them why they do it. Of course, they never answer.

[mikekohr]

39. He did NOT take names, he just kicked ass

nt

[Clio the Leo]

45. Except that would not have played well to the Republicans/Independents watching at home...

..... and he needs their vote/support as much as he needs ours.

[BeyondGeography]

46. Sorry, man, but that's called stepping on your own headline

"At GOP retreat, Obama calls for more government"

Bad.

They would have smelled blood with that one. Prez would have been rebuked non-stop and the MSM would have jumped all over it.

Look, I think it's pretty clear Obama knows how to play error-free baseball with the language in situations like yesterday. In fact, the only gaffe I can recall him making was when he thought he was off-line at that fundraiser in San Francisco.

The D's have an attractive master of the political game as President. Not that they appreciate it much.

To your larger point, I agree that the party has done an awful job selling its own ideology, and this is a decades-old problem. We are still playing in Reagan World, where government is the problem. No small part of that is a MSM that is corporate-dominated and fundamentally anti-public sector.

I think Obama's strategy is to restore some faith in government first, and then point to its benefits, rather than make bold philosophical statements. He has gotten quite far with that approach, yesterday being one more example.

[Armstead]

48. Well, I believe Obama should start dong a reverse Reagan

I'm not saying he should have made a big deal out of it.

But the plain facts of the matter is that the GOP will always whine about too much government, and we have to counteract that.

Reasonable people (moderates and liberals and intelligent conservatives) may disagree about the appropriate extent and size, but we have to stop feeding the Corporate CONservative meme that government is inherently bad, and that everything should be left to capitalist pirates.

[opihimoimoi]

47. Shoes??? Obama needs new ones...his old ones are in them Pubs Asses