Speaking before the anti-U.S. Chamber of Commerce, Obama expressed his support of union-busting

[brentspeak]

http://wbztv.com/local/central.falls.high.2.1528415.html

Obama Agrees With Firings At RI's Central Falls HS

President Barack Obama says a Rhode Island school that recently http://cbslocalblogs.prospero.com/n/blogs/blog.aspx?nav=main&webtag=wbz_declare&entry=982">fired its principal and all its teachers is an example of how there needs to be accountability.

He made the http://wbztv.com/national/Obama.school.dropout.2.1528117.html">comments Monday in Washington at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. He called for "accountability" if a school continually fails its students without improvement. "If a school continues to fail its students year after year after year, if it doesn't show signs of improvement, then there's got to be a sense of accountability."

Obama said that's exactly what happened at Central Falls High School in Rhode Island. He called the school "chronically troubled" – pointing out that just 7 percent of 11th graders passed state math tests. "When a school board wasn't able to deliver change by other means, they voted to lay off faculty and staff. As my Education Secretary Arne Duncan says, our kids get only one chance at an education and we need to do it right."

The same Obama who http://metavid.org/wiki/Stream:Senate_proceeding_10-01-08_00/2:38:38/2:53:07">spoke with evangelical fervor in front of the Senate in Oct. 2008 in favor of giving unaccountable banks hundreds of billions of our tax dollars?

[xchrom]

1. Recommend

[Inuca]

2. The pleasure to be the first

unrecommend. Really. From your link:

The board is planning on hiring teachers that will take part in professional development which would meet federal standards for the coming school years. This is a school with a 50 percent drop out rate.

If the union defends this kind of performance, yes, the union should be busted.

[joeybee12]

4. Nice I was here to cancel you out...

...ridiculous...the school is troubled, but where they gonna get qualified teachers...who should be held accountable, just the teachers, what about the school board and elected officials. Honestly, Obama could shoot you and you'd say you got in front of his bullet and apologize.

[Inuca]

6. You are welcome

we'll see how this develops...

[brentspeak]

5. You apparently need to return to the classroom for critical thinking skills

if you actually believe that the faculty is at fault for the kids dropping out.

[Inuca]

8. Not the only ones at fault

but to some extent, yes. By the way, I have been working in education (college level) for more than 20 years.

[brentspeak]

9. College level...a million miles away from the situation involving the H.S. in question

[Inuca]

10. On this, we agree n/t

[donco6]

7. The dropout rate is due to teachers? Really?

How does that work, exactly?

[boppers]

16. Should the students be replaced, instead?

Just keep firing students until the teachers get students that have good test scores and stay in school?

After all, why should teachers be expected to teach?

[donco6]

17. Uh, dropouts choose not to be taught.

How do you propose to keep them in school? Change the dropout age? Cages and locks? Jail time? Parent fines?

No - let's FIRE THE TEACHERS.

[boppers]

20. 93% failure rate.

You're convinced that 93% of the students are the problem?

[donco6]

33. We already talked about that in another thread.

The kids arrive as freshmen woefully behind in math. The entire state of RI has an average HS math proficiency of 22%. And this school has one of the highest povery, highest minority pops in the state. So, yeah, by 11th grade they still suck. Surprise!

But we were talking about dropout rate, which you evaded. What is the solution to solving the dropout rate? Fire the teachers? How does that help, exactly?

[boppers]

37. So, most of those working in education in the entire *STATE* seem to have a problem.

As far as why bad teachers cause dropouts, I suggest asking somebody who dropped out to go to college instead, where the teachers weren't mere sonorous desk warmers, and a person could actually get an education... I happen to be one of those, and know several more who decided they were fed up with wasting their time on "teachers" who seemed more interested in passing time between their paychecks then their students. We used to visit (and still do!) the good teachers, because they helped change our lives for the better.

Oh, and BTW, three of my friends who took the same path wound up becoming teachers, one of them is now part of running one of the top ranked charter high schools in the country. They were so disgusted they went back in to try and fix it, so the kids could have at least a few teachers in their schools that actually cared about their kids.

Short and sweet: Dropout rates have nothing to do with whether or not the teachers are in a union. It has everything to do with the quality of the teachers.

[donco6]

45. Your assertion really has no basis in fact.

But as for the union thing - sure, I'd believe that was true. I'm not a big union fan. But thinking you're going to lower the dropout rate by firing all the teachers - well, that's just assinine.

[boppers]

51. Have you ever had a teacher who was so irritating, annoying, and dis-involved that you would ditch?

(And by ditch, I mean not attend class).

Imagine schools filled with nothing but them. Students can tolerate a few, but if the staff is mostly "teachers and administrators I have no respect for", the students will drop out.

[jefferson_dem]

23. +1.

Being an educator is hard work. Believe me, I know.

We must stop excusing substandard efforts and start rewarding positive progress.

[joeybee12]

3. KNR...union busting and bashing at its finest...

..and hey, Obama, these guys will never vote for you, no matter what...you're kissing the wrong butts.

[Romulox]

11. Has everybody forgotten Obama's breaking of the UAW retiree contracts already?

:shrug: K/R anyhow, but... :wtf:

[QC]

12. If Obama does it, it's OK.

Get with the program, dude!

[jefferson_dem]

19. Wrong.

You mean if Obama does it, it sucks.

If Obama doesn't do it, it doesn't suck.

Yay!

[QC]

34. Is there anything he could do that might cause you to feel even the mildest disapproval?

I'm inclined to think not, but I'm willing to listen.

[jefferson_dem]

36. Sure.

There's plenty he could do that I would express disapproval for.

And plenty I have. For example:

His weak record on equality for the GLBT community.

...

His not picking Hillary to be VP.

...

[QC]

38. Fair enough. n/t

[cali]

13. ugh.

and what does he even know about this high school? ugh. ugh. ugh.

[depakid]

14. Some of the things this president does are just surreal

Let's see- speaking before a group dedicated to destroying your presidency and taking a gratuitous swipe at one of your most important constituencies.

I suppose if one wanted to cement their legacy as "the Great Conciliator" that would be a wise move- but I doubt history will be so kind if the Democrats end up losing the majority and Obama ends up a one term president through his persistent pandering to groups like these.

What's next? Obama addressing a teabag rally and criticizing moveon.org for their support of the public option?

[PM Martin]

15. That just may happen.

[freddie mertz]

26. At this point, nothing will surprise me.

It's like a fun-house mirror in Hell.

And real, working people and their families are the victims, of course.

As usual with a GOP administration.

[boppers]

18. Making $70,000 a year and not doing your job... hm, what industries is that acceptable in?

93% is not an acceptable failure rate.

[jefferson_dem]

21. Defending the shitty status quo of the American public education system...

How nauseating.

I don't give a fuck if the teachers are unionized. Accountability is nothing to be feared.

[brentspeak]

24. Obama apparently didn't fear giving the bankers who wreaked everyone's lives a trillion dollars

You were vomiting something about http://metavid.org/wiki/Stream:Senate_proceeding_10-01-08_00/2:38:38/2:53:07">"accountability"?

[jefferson_dem]

25. Did you excuse the bankers, as you do teachers who underperform?

Always the demagogue. :boring:

[freddie mertz]

29. They fired ALL the teachers. Seems a little extreme.

The school was not doing well, but I tend to doubt it was all the teachers' fault.

It is NEVER that simple.

The demagoguery was in the mass, indiscriminate act of the firing.

[boppers]

39. That's the required plan. They can re-hire up to 50% of them.

And it wasn't just the teachers, that's BS/spin:
http://www.projo.com/news/content/central_falls_trustees_vote_02-24-10_EOHI83C_v59.3c21342.html

Here were the options:
1) school closure;
2) takeover by a charter or school-management organization;
3) transformation which requires a longer school day, among other changes;
4) and “turnaround” which requires the entire teaching staff be fired and no more than 50 percent rehired in the fall.

The district argued for number 3, the teachers refused to do it without huge pay increases, so number 4 was the option left that kept a public school open.

[freddie mertz]

43. So, Arne Duncan has set these rules, right?

They seem very much slanted to a Republican-style approach to school "reform."

It is a set of no-win set of choices for the teachers, and explicitly hostile to the union.

The teachers should stage a strike across the entire state.

[boppers]

50. The teachers could win by working for 7 hours a day on their salary.

...Like the rest of us.

They refused, or rather, their union did.

[freddie mertz]

52. Oh, so you are one of those people who thinks teachers' work ends at the close of the school day.

Guess what? It doesn't.

Good teachers take a long time to prepare their classes, writing up notes, preparing handouts and presentations, writing uo and grading papers and exams, etc.

Teachers bring their work home with them every night.

Have you ever actually met a teacher?

[ipaint]

30. After 30 years of conservative neglect based on a lie in the reagan administration,

8 years of underfunded and draconian NCLB mandates, increasing homeless and poverty levels among students and the added fact that these teachers work in a community where 90% live in poverty. All this and you think tearing apart the one democratic thing in that community that those poor people have together, the public school, busting the union and firing teachers that work with these peoples kids day in and day out is a GOOD thing.

Republicans think slash and burn is effective social policy. Democrats are supposed to know better.

Obama is finishing up what reagan started. This is beyond shameful, especially for someone who touts himself as a community organizer.

[SoxFan]

32. +1000

[warm regards]

22. What's wrong with calling for "accountability?"

[Catshrink]

27. I'm so over him.

It was one thing with Arne Duncan spewed crap but now Obama himself? He's shown his true colors. Call me naive, but I never thought a Democrat would be so hellbent on destroying public education. I expected this from Bush, not from Obama. I am so disappointed.

And for all you teacher bashers: The performance at Central High is seen all across the country. Do you really think that all teachers in high poverty areas are incompetent or might you think there is something else going on? What we're seeing in classrooms are symptoms of society's problems. Blaming one group for this is hopelessly naive. When the results come in, and little, if any change, is seen, will those teachers get their jobs back? Will Obama eat his words? Arne's results in Chicago have proven iffy at best and in this, he's no better than Bush's efforts when he was governor of Texas.

Does Obama really expect the teachers' unions to back up after this? Or does he care?

[freddie mertz]

28. The "accountability" knife can cut both ways.

Let's fire the anti-union Democrats and replace them with the real thing.

2012.

[Catshrink]

31. +1

starting at the top.

[last_texas_dem]

35. Pandering to an anti-union, right-wing interest group using

slick Bush-esque talking points? I'm not going to give that shit a pass just 'cause it's coming from a Democratic president. In fact, it's far more insulting coming from a supposed ally. :puke:

[vaberella]

40. Okay I have a question? If the school is fucking it's students, what are we supposed to do?

I mean really. Do we just let it continue? something is therefore wrong with the school.

[depakid]

41. One thing you don't do:

1. Enable and legitimize a dishonest and corrupt Wall Street front group that works tirelessly against traditional Democratic values and your own policies, when progressive groups- and even members of the business community have been mounting an effort to discredit it; and

2. Use the opportunity to take a gratuitous swipe at one of your own key constituencies, holding the current situation up as an example.

Words that come to mind on that are: impudent and feckless.

Needlessly counterproductive, to say the least.

[vaberella]

44. Dude, I don't what the hell you're on about. That has nothing to do with my post. n/t

[donco6]

46. Schools aren't factories.

We're so quick to blame the factory for not putting out better bicycles. The fact of the matter is there's something very wrong with Central Falls as a community.

Kids don't drop out just because of school. They do it because of a dozen things in their lives which put pressure on them and actually support their decision to drop out. And it's not teachers doing that. Parents, friends, gangs, drugs, money, siblings, family situations and some school stuff, too.

To fix a dropout rate you have to fix the community as a whole. Firing the teachers will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

[PVnRT]

47. I guess your solution would be to fire everyone who isn't management

The administrators, of course, are entirely blameless and should continue doing the same shitty jobs they've always done.

Of course, when a factory lays off all its workers because it isn't profitable enough, everyone here is outraged. It's OK to do that to scumsucking teachers, though, since they're just another special interest group. And they get their summers off, too!

[jeanpalmer]

42. They ought to try to determine

why the kids are failing. Just to blame it on the teachers is a knee-jerk reaction. Lack of results can also be caused by the kids' limitations. I've seen that many times. I know kids who no matter how hard you try to teach them, their innate limitations prevent them from meeting general standards. And I can see how that could happen on a large scale. It's not right to simply blame teachers, without making a comprehensive effort to find out why kids are failing. What the school district did here looks like a political decision.

It's not fair to kids either not to acknowledge their limitations. Unrealistic expectation can really damage kids. You want to have high expectations but not unrealistic ones. Be fair and objective, to kids and to teachers.

Does Obama know what caused the failure? Doubt it. Looks like he's trying to score political points with the right wing.

[KoKo]

48. K&R... This is a good example of why so many of us are upset with Obama...

this wasn't the "Change we Could Believe In" ...unless he meant Change for the Republicans to Take Power Again!

[branders seine]

49. no surprise. Obama is a self-proclaimed "free market"

capitalist.

That is, he is on the side of the thieves.

[dkf]

53. The teachers refused to do what was necessary to improve the school.

When you make a conscious choice to not provide what students need for a minimal education you should be fired.