Obama's Position on Education [Question]

[mr715]

Can someone give me an objective assessment please?

[sandnsea]

1. From The White House

Today, President Barack Obama highlighted steps his Administration will take to combat the dropout crisis and invest in strategies to ensure students graduate prepared for college and careers.

President Obama challenged states to identify high schools with graduation rates below 60% and discussed the Administration’s investments to help them turn those schools around. The Obama Administration has committed $3.5 billion to fund transformational changes in America’s persistently low-performing schools. Additionally, the President’s FY 2011 budget includes $900 million to support School Turnaround Grants. budget President Obama also emphasized the importance of investing in dropout prevention and recovery strategies to help make learning more engaging and relevant for students, and announced new efforts to invest $100 million in a College Pathways program to promote a college readiness culture in high schools, through programs that allow students to earn a high school diploma and college credit at the same time.

“This is a problem we can’t afford to accept or ignore,” President Obama said. “The stakes are too high – for our children, for our economy, for our country. It’s time for all of us to come together – parents and students, principals and teachers, business leaders and elected officials – to end America’s dropout crisis.”

President Obama spoke at the America’s Promise Alliance GradNation event hosted by Alliance Founding Chairman General Colin Powell and his wife and Alliance Chair Alma Powell. America’s Promise Alliance is the nation’s largest partnership organization dedicated to improving the lives of children and youth.

FACT SHEET BELOW:

Reducing the Dropout Rate and Helping All Students Graduate College and Career Ready

“It is time for all of us, no matter what our backgrounds, to come together and solve this epidemic. Stemming the tide of dropouts will require turning around our low-performing schools. Just 2,000 high schools in cities like Detroit, Los Angeles, and Philadelphia produce over 50% of America’s dropouts… Let us all make turning around our schools our collective responsibility as Americans.”

A national effort to help turn around America’s persistently low-performing schools.

It takes more time, stronger interventions, and a larger investment of funds to help turn around persistently low-performing schools. The Obama Administration has committed $3.5 billion to fund transformational changes in America’s persistently low-performing schools, including assisting states in identifying and prioritizing high schools with graduation rates below 60%. Under the leadership of Secretary Arne Duncan, the U.S. Department of Education’s School Turnaround Grants will support vigorous interventions for 5,000 of the nation’s lowest-performing schools over the next five years, designed to drive change, improve student achievement, and transform school culture. The President’s FY 2011 budget includes an additional $900 million to support School Turnaround Grants. To access school improvement funds, states and school districts will choose among four reform models to change their lowest-performing schools:


Turnaround Model: Among other actions, the school district must replace the principal and at least half of the school staff, adopt a new governance structure for the school, and implement a new or revised instructional program.
Restart Model: The school district must close and reopen the school under the management of a charter school operator, a charter management organization or an educational management organization selected through a rigorous review process. A restart school would be required to admit, within the grades it serves, any former student who wishes to attend.
School Closure: The school district must close the failing school and enroll the students who attended that school in other, higher-achieving schools in the district.
Transformational Model: The school must address four areas of reform, including (1) developing teacher and school leader effectiveness (and replacing the principal who led the school prior to commencement of the transformational model); (2) implementing comprehensive instructional reform strategies; (3) extending learning and teacher planning time and creating community-oriented schools; and (4) providing operating flexibility and sustained support.

Keeping students engaged and on-track to graduation.

One study found that when asked why they left school, about half of dropouts responded that they did not find school interesting, and over two-thirds reported that school did not motivate or inspire them. The Obama Administration is committed to investing in innovative dropout recovery and prevention strategies to better engage youth in their learning and to help them catch-up academically. The Obama Administration will support effective dropout prevention strategies – through $50 million committed to the Graduation Promise Fund and through reforms supported under the Student Aid and Fiscal Responsibility Act, which has passed the U.S. House of Representatives. These efforts include:

· Personalized and individualized instruction and support to keep students engaged in their learning and focused on success.

· Multiple pathways and credit recovery programs, such as high-quality alternative high schools, transfer schools, or career- and work-based experiences to help students catch-up and keep-up academically, and to get back on track toward a high school diploma.

· Better use of data and information to identify and respond to students at risk of failure, and assist with important transitions to high school and college.

Promoting a culture of college readiness.

Participation in a challenging high school curriculum has a greater impact on whether a student will earn a four-year college degree than his or her high school test scores, class rank, or grades. The President’s FY 2011 budget supports a new $100 million College Pathways Program to increase access to college-level, dual credit, and other accelerated courses in high-need high schools, and to support college-going strategies and models that will help students succeed. For example, early college high schools allow students to earn a high school degree and an Associate’s degree (or 2 years of college credit), simultaneously, and dual enrollment programs provide college-level courses and opportunities for students to earn post-secondary credit while still in high school. The Obama Administration will also launch new efforts to better support completion and submission of the FAFSA – or Free Application for Federal Student Aid – to increase the likelihood that students will enroll in college.

[mr715]

2. Thanks!

THank you

[kwassa]

3. Objective? It is all just magical thinking.

There is nothing wrong with trying to improve public schools, it is a noble task.

but these people, including Obama, have a belief that is supported by nothing more than belief. There is no proof, and a lot of anti-teacher prejudice involved, IMHO.

Arne Duncan has no track record of success. Who does have success, on a large scale? Arne has the President's ear, and thereby access to big bucks.

[ncteechur]

4. To the contrary..

Getting rid of bad teachers is not anti-teacher, it is pro-teacher. Inefficient teachers diminish the work that good teachers do.
They need to go if they cannot get students to grow.

[Catshrink]

5. Blaming teachers for the problems in education is simplistic.

The issues are huge. "They need to go if they cannot get students to grow." you say? You wouldn't last a day in a classroom with this naive thinking. There are many ways to define "grow." Is it in test scores? Is it in finding purpose? How do you measure it? Education is complex. Those in the field understand this, those who reduce the problems to one dimension are hopelessly without a clue.

[TomCADem]

10. Yet, Only 7 Percent of 11th-graders passed state math tests...Something needed to be done

I guess you could also fire the administrators too, and just clean house. I'd hate to simply accept the idea that kids in a poor neighborhood are going to fail.

[Catshrink]

12. And yet you advocate punishing the people who are actually

helping turn it around. Why do kids in poor neighborhoods fail? It's happening all over the country. If we were to use the Obama approach, we'd fire all the teachers in all the poor neighborhoods. Does that make sense? There's something more going on.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

39. If they're helping to turn it around, why have results kept going downwards? (nt)

[ncteechur]

16. I've lasted in education for 20+ years at every level. Teacher, assistant principal, principal

elementary school, high school, and now central office as a supervisor and director of instruction. I've worked on state councils for turnaround high schools.

I definitely know what I am talking about and am not naive.

What is your experience?

The issues are huge--but I don't frankly give a shit what the teachers want or don't want. It is supposed to be about the kids.

[kwassa]

32. you know what you are talking about?

Since the first thing attacked is seniority, what exactly does your 20+ mean? Nothing, in the current debate.

and what I really want to know is this: where are those schools that have been taken over by state governments that are now big successes?

Show me the numbers. Show me the success.

and where is the parental responsibility? What, there isn't any? Teachers are asked to do the job of parents, in many fewer hours per day, and counter the negative and/or non-existent support in the outside world?

I've been a public school teacher for eight years, after working in the business sector for 25 years in different industries. I've seen many different management situations in my years. There is zero proof that this mass firing will work. There is little motivation for any competent teacher anywhere deciding to work in Central Falls, Rhode Island.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

38. School takeover is a fairly recent development.

Although if you want, I can definitely point to the early returns on NYC's takeover, which have been very positive so far.

[Starry Messenger]

40. So you're not a "teecher"

you're a suit.

"I don't frankly give a shit what the teachers want or don't want."--yeah, I think the rest of that figured that out a few days ago, thanks for the confirmation though.

[mr715]

43. That is not fair and you know it.

Obama never practiced law, he was just a professor. That doesn't mean he doesn't understand it. You are replying to someone who not only PRACTICED education, but got promoted. By peers (school leadership teams help appoint school administrators). To executive positions.

I AM a teacher, tenured, and a (fairly) successful department leader. And I respect the "suits" that help run schools.

I'd happily give up my tenure if it meant my profession would be more academic, prestigious, and had commensurate pay.

[Starry Messenger]

45. You haven't seen this person's performances in GD for the past few days

I was speaking to that. He's been ranting in capslock that the teachers in RI all deserved to be fired and punished. Over and over. If he is indeed some kind of administrator his behavior here on DU has been a disgrace.

[YvonneCa]

8. All that is true,but...

...they are using a sledgehammer when a scalpel would do.

[AngryAmish]

15. Why do you think Arne Duncan has the President's ear?

[Catshrink]

6. Destroy public education

put it in the hands of private corporations. Schools can and should be run like a business because students are "products." He put someone in charge who has never taught and has no clue about the craft. Arne Duncan's track record in Chicago is questionable, at best, yet this is what they are hellbent on doing. All this is done without input from teachers. Teachers, the first line in education, are shut out.

One term.

[TomCADem]

11. Over-reacting a bit? The true cop-out is accepting failure on public education

The surest way to ensure the death of public education is to accept that it is okay for 93 percent of 11th graders to fail. This simply emboldens the right wing who will demand vouchers. Yet, President Obama has opposed private school vouchers.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/11/martin.vouchers/index.html

[Catshrink]

13. Me overreacting? How about that superintendent?

Please read the information in this thread to find out what the improvements that were going on at that school:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7830386

These firings really had nothing to do with student performance and teachers. Obama favors privatization of education and running schools like businesses. If he's as smart as we've been led to believe, he should wake up and see that his pal Arne's track record of "turnaround schools" in Chicago is dismal: it didn't work. Yet, he wants to do this all over the country. What's the definition of stupidity? If he were smart, he'd look at the bigger problems of poverty but blaming the teachers, those who have the least amount of power in the school system, is just so much easier.

One term.

[TomCADem]

14. "Obama favors privatization of education"? Nonsense. Obama Has Taken Heat...

For opposing school vouchers, as noted in this article:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/03/11/martin.vouchers/index.html

(CNN) -- When President Obama signs the $410 billion omnibus spending bill, there will be shouts of joy from both sides as Republicans and Democrats get their cherished earmarks.

Yet tucked into that bill is an amendment pushed by the president's former colleague in the Senate, Illinois Democrat Dick Durbin, who used his influence to essentially kill the District of Columbia school vouchers program.

Oh sure, it will be portrayed that the Democrats aren't killing the program, but the initiative calls for no new students to be allowed entry, unless approved by Congress and the District of Columbia City Council.

And considering that the teachers union has such a death grip on both Democratic-controlled institutions, you can forget about that happening.

Yes, here is President killing a school voucher program, which is the epitome of privitizing education. Now, if you have a link to President Obama suddenly advocating a nationwide school voucher program, ala President Bush and the rest of the GOP, as a cure all for education then let me know.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

19. The person you're responding to wrongly believes charters to be private.

They're not. They're under all of the same rules and regulations as every other public school, and are funded publicly as well. This is where they're getting the asinine notion that Obama's privatizing schools.

[Catshrink]

21. No.

Private corporations are opening charter schools that are paid for with public funds. These corporations are for-profit.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

25. Only 4 states even allow that.

And they are not the states with the highest proportion of charter schools.

[YvonneCa]

26. Hey, Nick! Is California...

...one of them?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. Yes, in fact, it is.

They account for 7% of all California schools (746) and 4.5% of its enrollment (285,617)

[YvonneCa]

30. And are those charter schools BOTH public and...

...private?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

33. Those figures are for both, combined.

I don't have a breakdown of for-profit vs. non-profit. Either way, we're talking about a paltry amount.

[LWolf]

51. He can afford to kill vouchers, since

his robust union-busting and privatizing program is going to put so many privatized schools within the public sector to choose from.

Vouchers aren't the only way to privatize; charter schools were created as the alternative to vouchers.

As a matter of fact, when interviewed by FOX news during the primary, and asked what Republicans do better than Democrats, one of Obama's reply was "education."

OBAMA: Well, I think there are a whole host of areas where Republicans in some cases may have a better idea.

WALLACE: Such as?

OBAMA: Well, on issues of regulation. I think that back in the '60s and '70s a lot of the way we regulated industry was top-down command and control, we're going to tell businesses exactly how to do things.

And you know, I think that the Republican Party and people who thought about the markets came up with the notion that, "You know what? If you simply set some guidelines, some rules and incentives, for businesses — let them figure out how they're going to, for example, reduce pollution," and a cap and trade system, for example is a smarter way of doing it, controlling pollution, than dictating every single rule that a company has to abide by, which creates a lot of bureaucracy and red tape and oftentimes is less efficient.

I think that on issues of education, I've been very clear about the fact — and sometimes I've gotten in trouble with the teachers' union on this — that we should be experimenting with charter schools. We should be experimenting with different ways of compensating teachers that...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352785,00.html

[YvonneCa]

24. I never accepted that is is okay for even ONE student to fail...

...let alone 93% of students to fail in my 24 years of teaching. I STILL don't accept that. What I also don't accept is the assumption that...to 'turn around' a school...it is right to fire all the teachers, including the good ones. Can you accept that there might be even ONE good teacher at a low-performing school?

As to vouchers, I am glad President Obama opposes them...he should. He needs to FIGHT the right wing...not enable them. And he needs to fight WITH TEACHERS...not against them.

As a teacher, am I supposed to just say... to my teacher colleagues who worked with me in the trenches for years to reform schools in our district FOR OUR KIDS... "Thank goodness we'll never have to worry about the voucher issue anymore, now that we've elected President Obama...but sorry you were fired in the process" ?


My standards for the President are higher than that. I expect him to respect and support good teachers EVERYWHERE...even in low-performing districts...AND prevent vouchers at the same time. He CAN walk and chew gum at the same time...YES, he can. ;)

I(and my teacher colleagues) voted for our President. I(and my teacher colleagues) went door-to-door for him in far away places. I (and my teacher colleagues) support almost all his policies and think he is off to a good start in a VERY difficult Presidency at a very critical time. I still support him.

But I (and my teacher colleagues) need him to support US.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. There is not a single word you wrote that's true.

Reading is fundamental. Try it sometime.

[Catshrink]

20. Yet another charter shill emerges.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

22. Unabashedly so.

I'd ask you why you're not a supporter of charter schools, but I'll probably receive an antiquated NEA palaver that they themselves don't even use anymore because it's ridiculous.

[mr715]

31. Charter Schools

Nicholas -

Why do you like charter schools?

I've found that they are not as strong as they appear and that if the discipline and liberties given to teachers in charter schools were uniformly applied in ALL classrooms, education would be just fine in traditional classrooms.

As I understand them, a charter school is effectively a contract with parents and students that allows administrators to threaten suspension or removal.

There are several charter schools that my school recommends students to - I am not wowed by any of them. Perhaps the red tape around suspension and expulsion should be cut.

Tell me what you know about charter schools please? I am fuzzy on them.


MR

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

35. To some extent, you're right.

Honestly, charter schools are not the final solution in education. I don't think anyone that seriously promotes them thinks that they are. However, they represent an important choice for parents and students in education, especially in urban areas.

At their foundation, charter schools are difficult to define simply because the laws that govern them are different from state to state, and even from charter district to charter district. They do allow for a fair amount of flexibility in that they are not subject to governance directly by the local superintendent. Many charter schools focus on a particular aspects of education that they feel improve student performance. The KIPP schools, for example, emphasize student responsibility, character education, and extended learning time (all students go to school on Saturday). Some incorporate music in their education, others emphasize science. They are all subject to state and federal accountability in terms of NCLB (or ESEA, as it's now being called again). Their funding follows the student, meaning they get a portion of the same funds that would be spent on the child in a traditional school. They don't get it all because of various management filters in traditional education that still get portions of it. In that vein, they are typically underfunded and make up the difference either by finding favorable building leases or through private donations. Most charter schools do not get to pick their students, which is a commonly held myth of charters. Most have a lottery system for admissions, with preferences given to the student's location and economic background.

They are very popular in urban settings, as parents appreciate the ability to remove their kids from hostile environments without having to pay for private school. Their higher educational performance can in part be explained by the fact that the parents are obviously involved in the child's life - after all, they have to actively choose to send their kid to a charter school. Still, I've visited many charter schools, such as the KIPP school in Harlem, and it's something you have to see to truly understand. It's a different world. Perhaps not better or worse, but definitely different - which is the point. It's an option.

The true power of charter schools is the ability to revoke the charter. It admittedly doesn't happen often enough, but it represents a very high accountability standard for the school to ensure kids are getting the education they deserve. More or less, just having the power to cut directly through any red tape and get kids out of a bad situation is not to be underestimated, especially after watching what's going on in Rhode Island or Washington, DC.

[mr715]

41. My boss

really dislikes the KIPP schools.

I love the way they make kids earn things they normally take for granted (earning desks, pencils, books, etc.)

How successful are KIPP at preparing kids for college? And by college, I mean competitive 4 year colleges?


I went to an extremely selective HS (Bronx Sci) so I'm a bit biased against lottery based admissions. I have a very difficult time understanding what a charter school does so differently that vaasssst differences in educational history and performance can be bridged so quickly.

My middle school aims for the NCLB 2 years of growth per year, so we have kids make up 3 years of "missed education". That can bring a kid in at a 3rd grade level up to 6th by the time they leave middle school, but what happens next?

Do charter schools have tracked classes? It seems very antithetical to their general philosophy...

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

48. As for tracked classes...

I don't know of any that do, but it's really a case-by-case sort of thing with all charters on those kinds of details. KIPP doesn't, however, they will not pass someone on to the next level course until they pass to a higher standard than is required in traditional schools. So if in NY, the state requires a score of 2 or higher, the KIPP school would require a 3.

Personally, I think tracking is attractive in concept, but given all of what we know about the history of disadvantaged kids getting crammed to the bottom, I don't think it's right for the U.S.

As for prepping for college - I wish I had some time to dig into the data for you, but I do know they are very aggressive in pushing kids towards college. They typically have a banner in the hallway of the college each of their graduates attends. They even group kids by those college names (for things like homeroom) and they usually arrange for campus visits for the kids.

I truly love KIPP schools. I think people don't like it because it "doesn't let kids be kids", meaning they aren't running around screaming and having fun. It's a lot more disciplined a setting, but not in the beating kids over the head way. They train the teachers to treat kids with respect and expect nothing less in return. Let me be the first to tell you that it works.

[kwassa]

46. the mystery to me is that these are being touted as a solution

Education is a field full of fashions and trends ( the same is true of business management philosophies) and charter schools seem to be one of them. Is there any real proof that charter schools perform any better, as a group?

This US Department of Education report says no.

http://www2.ed.gov/rschstat/eval/choice/pcsp-final/finalreport.pdf

So why is the Obama administration throwing so much money in that direction?

This Stanford report says about 17% perform better, about 46% perform the same, and 37% perform worse. Hardly a rousing success. It really adds up to careless use of the taxpayers' money.

http://credo.stanford.edu/reports/MULTIPLE_CHOICE_CREDO.pdf

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

49. A large part of the problem is that not enough charter authorizers are willing to close bad ones.

That drags down the figures quite a bit and it defeats a large part of the purpose, in my opinion. But it's still a relatively new and developing concept that has shown quite a bit of potential in schools where we know it works.

[YvonneCa]

50. "We"? Who's "we"...

...???

[ShortnFiery]

34. +1000

:thumbsup:

[BeFree]

7. One point: Education spending in the whole US $Trillion

Education spending ...$972 billion Updated at 11:13 PM


From DUer Juche....link:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


http://www.nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d07/index.asp

Education Expenditures

Expenditures for public and private education, from prekindergarten through graduate school (excluding postsecondary schools not awarding associate's or higher degrees), are estimated at $972 billion for 2006–07 (table 25). Expenditures of elementary and secondary schools are expected to total $599 billion, while those of degree-granting postsecondary institutions are expected to total $373 billion. Total expenditures for education are expected to amount to 7.4 percent of the gross domestic product in 2006–07, about 0.5 percentage points higher than in 1996–97.

-------------------
Plus federal spending of $46.7 billion – Department of Education
Which adds up to over a trillion dollars a year. Wow.

[VMI Dem]

9. Fierce advocate.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. He is very reasoned and balanced.

He understands the needs of unions, but also sees a compelling need to improve our system greatly. He's definitely using some creative methods for getting the job done, by incenting states and schools to take on his proposals - not punishing those that don't. He sees the need for accountability while also seeing the many flaws in the current system. He's approaching the situation from all angles.

[YvonneCa]

29. I agree with all of that. I also appreciated that, at the NGA...

...he discussed three types of public schools:

1. schools doing well that needed impediments removed

2. schools in the middle that were on the way, but needed support to improve

3. low-performing or failing schools that need a different set of solutions. For this group, he set out four choices...transform, turnaround, charter or close.


My differences with the President are in regard to these low-performing/failing schools. My 24 year education career was in such a school and district. If schools are closed in the turnaround process...good teachers get unfairly targeted. President Obama should not allow this. Not only is it wrong for those teachers and bad for public education, but the President will lose educator support that I want him to keep. JMHO :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

36. Closing bad schools isn't about the teachers.

And given the need for good teachers, it's not like they aren't picked up again in a heartbeat. They always, always are.

As far as educator support goes - you and I have talked about the role of the unions. The AFT has recently stepped up very encouraging rhetoric, even appointing a very respected special master to work on teacher issues. If their walk meets their talk, I don't think Obama will have a problem with them. But they need to follow through because their previous plans have been utterly unacceptable.

[olegramps]

37. I have a serious problem with firing all or half of the teachers.

I take no satisfaction in the supposed fact that they will be rehired. Where is the study that supports this claim? This not only appears to be grossly unfair, it is unfair. Period.

How many of the kids that are disruptive, abusive and dangerous apply to charter schools? I would think that those applying to charters are those who are fleeing a dangerous non-productive environment. I would put the onus on the students and their parents to demonstrate that they are there to learn. Kick out the trouble makers who are not interested in getting an education and the teachers will be able to perform.

You also appear to conveniently ignore the crushing aspects of poverty that is the main contributing factor. Its not just a teacher problem, its primarily a social problem. It doesn't take any great knowledge to see that schools in upper class neighborhoods excel and those in poverty pockets are struggling.

[mr715]

42. I have to disagree on a major point.

You are saying that poverty is a major force in shaping the effectiveness of education, and that kids can be disruptive. I agree on these two points.

However you also say that we should consider removing "disruptive, abusive and dangerous" kids. These are the kids that are being influenced by poverty.

There are a lot of nice incentives for teachers to work in high need schools, not the least of which is the FACT that TFA and Teaching Fellows and other alt. cert. programs force teachers into those schools. These are the so-called best and brightest teachers, even if they are not senior.

Heres the thing... as a teacher, i feel uncomfortable with saying "This kid cannot learn" and throwing him out just because he is disruptive (yes I have a kid in mind) - and I am not a particularly warm, feel-good teacher. When I have a kid that is disruptive, I put in the hours to help them meet our goals.

Poverty is a social problem, but it does not absolve teachers who are unwilling to go the extra mile without hiding being an aegis of seniority.



I'm sorry to disagree.

MR

[Fruittree]

44. Thank you!

I appreciate the discussion that was in this thread. It was filled with facts, points and counterpoints and it was respectful! I actually learned some things about how charter schools work. Some of the posts where people are more intent on attacking Obama than exchanging ideas get really depressing.

[YvonneCa]

47. Nick, you're talking about the goal...

...of closing schools and how it 'should' work in a perfect world. I understand it is done for students' benefit...and (at least in CA, for the $$$). But there are flaws in the implementation. I know several of them personally. ;)

[CBR]

23. He wants to rip the hearts out of teachers and feed them

to wall street bankers on live tv.

[yurbud]

28. shhh....!

he wants to do it nice and quietly.