Economy sheds fewer jobs than expected (Unemployment rate remains unchanged at 9.7%)

[HughMoran]

Unemployment rate remains unchanged at 9.7 percent in February

WASHINGTON - U.S. employers cut a smaller than expected 36,000 jobs in February, leaving the unemployment rate steady at 9.7 percent, bolstering views the labor market was on the brink of creating jobs.

The Labor Department said on Friday it was unclear how severe weather, which slammed much of the country last month, had impacted payrolls. Jobs losses for December and January were revised to show 35,000 fewer jobs lost than previously reported.

Analysts polled by Reuters had expected non-farm payrolls to drop 50,000 last month and the unemployment rate to edge up to 9.8 percent. The median forecast from the 20 most accurate forecasters also saw payrolls falling by 50,000, while the 10 most accurate economists predicted a 70,000 decline.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35723202/ns/business-stocks_and_economy/

[lunatica]

1. I'm so glad they're putting a positive spin on the negative facts

makes me feel so much better about what's happening right now to some of my fellow DUers and fellow workers and friends. I'm sure it'll make them feel better too. :sarcasm:

edited to add the sarcasm gif because there's always one who doesn't get it

[jefferson_dem]

5. Right!

If only the jobs report was worse than expected!

...and they lived happily ever after.

[lunatica]

13. Tell that to your fellow DUers who are losing jobs daily

I'm sure they'll start feeling better right away.

[high density]

6. What positive spin?

Things were not as bad as expected. How, exactly, is that a bad thing? I don't see anybody out there saying our job problems are over, but are still headed in the proper direction.

[lunatica]

14. Have you been reading DU lately? People are losing jobs and homes

Tell them things are getting better.

[unblock]

16. these reports are all about a very, very large and diverse economy reduced to a few simple numbers

of course there are going to be variances by region, industry, and certainly by household.

that doesn't mean things aren't getting better for the country as a whole.



on the other hand, i would agree that many people will die waiting for things to finally get from "the economy is moving in the right direction" to "the economy is good".

[AllentownJake]

29. This is a telephone survey

Controlled by politicians.

Every President since IKE has played games with it, the data collection method and reporting of the final statistic.

I think you can get about an accurate picture from this report as by cutting open a pig and reading it's intestines.

[unblock]

45. from my perch in the credit market i can see gdp is clearly improving.

but i can also see that it's improving in a way that helps corporations but not workers.

american companies borrowing capital to buy or build overseas plants so they can sell to other overseas countries doesn't help actual americans much, aside from some of the shareholders.

most companies went into full panic mode and clamped down on everything, and they are now VERY slowly, VERY cautiously starting the process of returning to something resembling normalcy. that's improvement, in a relative sense, but they won't be seriously hiring until the path to reliable profits is quite certain. so it will be slow going for a long time.

[Hosnon]

19. It's not spin. Losing jobs at a slower rate is an improvement. nt.

[lunatica]

41. And people getting lesser jobs in exchange is not hallelujah time either

But if you want to see it all as a bed of roses feel free. The fact is the fix isn't fixing anything because very few people are getting jobs anywhere near what they had before. That's what downsizing and outsourcing does. It means people have to get work where they find it. You can be the best IT worker in the world but if all the IT jobs go overseas then all your training and years of college and hard work are worthless. You might get lucky and get a part time job managing a fast food place.

I don't see the improvement.

[Hosnon]

42. Bed of roses? Are you kidding? We haven't replaced a single job we lost.

Read the numbers for what they are: things are getting better, but they're not good yet.

[MadHound]

56. Actually, according to the numbers we lost only twenty thousand jobs in January,

While we lost 36,000 jobs in February, so apparently job loss is now accelerating again, not slowing down.

[guardian]

2. ooooh boy. I feel better already.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aYoZtT2hYnFk

The so-called underemployment rate -- which includes part- time workers who’d prefer a full-time position and people who want work but have given up looking -- rose to 16.8 percent from 16.5 percent.

[Yavin4]

48. My Math Tells Me...

Jan U6 rate: 16.5
Feb U6 rate: 16.8

Difference = .3

Feb U3 Rate = 9.7

Feb U3 Rate + (Jan U6 - Feb U6) = 9.7 + .3 = 10

Thus, the U3 rate was held down due to people abandoning their job search. (e.g. kids moving back in with parents, spouse living off of the other, etc.)

[Craftsman]

3. A work of fiction Stephen King would be proud of.

[HughMoran]

21. Fiction?

Can you be a little less cryptic?

[asdjrocky]

4. We lost fewer jobs! We lost fewer jobs!

Nope. Doesn't have a good ring to it.

[high density]

7. Heck yeah!!!

Let's go back to losing 750k a month. Times were so good back then!!!

[jefferson_dem]

8. Some people feel destined to be disappointed...and depressed...

n/t

[asdjrocky]

9. I'm not depressed.

And by the way, nt means no text. When you don't put it in the subject line, it kind of defeats the purpose, ya know?

As far as some people? Some peoples principals don't change based on who is in office.

[jefferson_dem]

10. "Principles"

:)

[asdjrocky]

17. Thanks!

That one and angel/angle is another one I always have problems with. Don't even get me started on effect/affect.

[Hosnon]

20. Before we can start healing we had to stop the massive bleeding.

And thankfully, it looks like we've just about stopped it.

[AllentownJake]

28. The body is dying

The only way the bleeding was stopped was massive intervention into the economy. The entire economy is sustained right now by massive government spending and borrowing.

The patient isn't even off the heart and lung machine. The immune system is so weak that a common cold will send it into cardiac arrest.

Oh and people don't want to lend the government that much more money to spend and keep things going...

[Hosnon]

33. The government intervention is (hopefully) bridging the gap/giving the real economy time to recover.

The artificial aid is necessary until the economy can repair itself.

[AllentownJake]

36. The economy can't repair itself

:rofl:

The entire reason we are here is because of bad banking. Until that mess is cleaned up no growth happens and the government is doing all in its power to not clean up that mess.

[Hosnon]

39. Yes it can and historically has. nt.

[AllentownJake]

40. This isn't an inventory recession

It is a deflationary depression caused by bad investing activities of the banking sector.

Spare me the GDP talking point, the other symptoms are all there outside of a cooked number that counts borrowed government money being spent as growth.

[JoePhilly]

12. Try this ...

Get some graph paper.

Plot the job lose numbers from Jan 2008 to Jan 2010. Draw a line after Feb 2009 because that was when the stimulus passed.

Compare the two sides of the graph and then answer this very simple question .. "which trend line is better".

Try this exercise with GDP, the unemployment rate, the markets, any of your other preferred metrics of economic activity. Almost across the board, the trend lines AFTER Feb 2009 are better than trend lines which precede that date.

Then ... look at the unemployment rate. It is now 9.7%. Examine the graph and you will find that the unemployment rate first hit 9.7% in July 2009. Now, try to find another point on the graph in which the unemployment rate is the same as it was 6 or 7 months prior. You can't find one. In fact, for most months, if you compare it to the month that is 6 months prior, the unemployment rate grew significantly.

Try to recognize, we are trying to turn an aircraft carrier, not a jet-ski.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[asdjrocky]

25. No, little one, I'm acting like a realist.

Just found out this morning I've lost yet another neighbor because Obama can't seem to get his shit together on saving peoples homes while he's saving the bankers.

You enjoy those rose colored glasses, they suit you.

[tranche]

26. I'm sorry, but I realize that Barack Obama isn't going to personally fix all my issues.

Those aren't rose colored glasses, that's the view of someone that doesn't have a daddy complex. Enough with the he loves bankers but he hates me bullshit. It's tiresome and pretty pathetic. I figured you'd come around to how Obama had somehow personally slighted you or someone you know, it's typical behavior of your type.

[AllentownJake]

30. What has he done?

I mean other than bailing out states and creditors in a deflationary debt cycle...what has he done?

Sure he didn't cause it, but really, have his policies been the best for most Americans? Has he prosecuted people who caused this mess? Has he even tried to pass reform before he gave the people who caused it money from not doing this again?

Hell I don't want him to get me a job, I want him to make it so my friend's kid can get a job when she is old enough.

[tranche]

44. He hasn't done a lot.

I don't know how this string devolved into an Obama tit for tat. The original beef I had with the poster was that the OP posted unemployment numbers, they weren't great, they weren't good, but it shows a glimmer of things getting better. The comment belittled the OP for even trying, reminding us again just how much of a lost cause everything really is. I'm sick of it. I'm tired of coming here and having to wade through smart-ass comments from 50+ year old posters who should know better.

As for Obama, he's doing about as well as I figured he'd do. I mean, he garnered the support of the Democatic party leadership for God's sake, what the hell did people think they were getting? a Kucinich in a cool package? He's Clinton, and that's about what the country was looking to elect at the time.

[asdjrocky]

57. My type?

What type is that? Pleas enlighten me.

[Clio the Leo]

11. And retail hiring went UP......

.... I've been in retail long enough to know that MOST retail is another form of temporary help. (Because you'll take a job in retail while you wait for the one you want.) As we all know, temp hiring is a forefunner to full-time.

This was significant because Feb. is usually a month when retail SHEDS jobs.

And what I heard all week from everyone was gloom and doom .....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=433&topic_id=207140#207171

... holding steady is VERY good news.

[lunatica]

15. The service industry is growing

But the manufacturing jobs are declining.

[ipaint]

23. The number of unemployed people not counted in the U3 is up.

Minor detail except if your one of the 2.5 million and rising not counted.

[AllentownJake]

27. Income and Sales Tax revenue down

Must be a lot of people cheating on their taxes right now with that recovery money.

:sarcasm:

[HughMoran]

31. les miserables

I heard that a person dies every 13 seconds in the US. 4 people died in the time it took me to type this message!

:evilgrin:

[AllentownJake]

32. You are missing the point

The number is meaningless, and has no correlation to reality.

For instance if I hand out no interest loans to people to buy my product and fail to check their credit before hand, I'm going to have some incredible sales for about 3 months and be bankrupt in a year.

[HughMoran]

34. ...as are you

In your usual block-headed style, you go around trying to poison the water and ensure that everybody is so cynical that they can have no idea of how things are going other than being a statistician who knows how to dig into the numbers. Basically, listen to Jake - you fool!

[AllentownJake]

35. Let me see

Failed banking system that has not been reformed and bailed out. Check

Offsheet debts on said banking system that make Enron look morally like a non-profit cancer association. Check.

Bribed public officials. Check

Over leveraged everything, where the debt hasn't been cleaned up through default or payment. Check

Large Trade deficit, declining tax revenues, and giant deficit spending. check.

Europe about ready to default. Check

Bankrupt public pension plans. Check.

Large scale wage deflation on debtors. Check.

Please tell me where I'm missing the "hope"

[HughMoran]

37. Once again, les miserables

You're either deliberately seeking the most negative viewpoint or making shit up that hasn't happened yet. You are one miserable bastard.

[AllentownJake]

38. Now you sound like my ex. who kept trying to get me to read The Alchemist

Everything I cited on there, has happened and is happening.

When I start talking about how low the military and cops are paid, and how miserably they are treated, than you should be saying Les Miserable.

[Yavin4]

47. Wow

For instance if I hand out no interest loans to people to buy my product and fail to check their credit before hand, I'm going to have some incredible sales for about 3 months and be bankrupt in a year.

I used that exact same argument during the housing bubble years, and people would dismiss me.

[AllentownJake]

49. Yes and now I'm talking about the Federal Reserve and US government nt.

[Dappleganger]

43. K&R for good news. nt

[Yavin4]

46. The UE Data Is Like The Detroit Lions

In 2008, it was 0-16.

In 2009, it was 2-14. That's a 200% improvement over 2008, but the team still stinks. And, it's miles away from being a champion.

[HughMoran]

50. Miami

went 1-15 in 2007 & was 11-5 in 2008. :P

[Yavin4]

52. We Aint Miami

We are Detroit.

[HughMoran]

55. ...and therein lies the difference between you and me

It's a matter of opinion - thanks for making that crystal clear.

[Cha]

51. It could be a lot worse..

Sorry, for those who haven't found jobs yet and glad for those who have.

[AllentownJake]

53. You know

That is the first reasonable thing I've seen said.

[depakid]

54. Could also have been better had the output gap been further narrowed

and aid to struggling states had been increased, rather than slashed (which caused both detracted from the federal stimulus effect through layoffs, fee increases and tax hikes AND created an unfavorable political climate for the Dems on the state and local level in a redistricting election).