We have plenty of jobs

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

We have plenty of jobs.

Our current employment crisis has driven percentage of employed adults down to levels that were considered employment booms in the 1960s and 1970s.

So why are Americans going bankrupt at what were former boom-levels of employment?

Sounds like low relative wages. A lot of two-income couples out there that need both incomes just to get by.



http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2010/03/employment-population-ratio-part-time.html

[NJmaverick]

1. There are far more two income homes

the two income homes drive a higher standard of living than the 60s and 70s. In the 60s and 70s TV was totally free, there were no such things as mobile phones, personal computers (other than as oddities) internet access and other goodies. To pay for all this great stuff almost every home needs two incomes. As a result a higher percentage of adults are employed now than in the 60s and 70s. Beyond what I discussed there was also an improvement in attitudes that allowed women to enter the work force in greater numbers.

[peace13]

2. 2 income families????

I know families where both husband and wife have 2 jobs so we need a 4 income category. These folks work like dogs for minimum wage and still have a tough time. Without Grandma the kids would be pretty lonely.

[JuniperLea]

3. What people paid for homes in the 60's...

Isn't even a down payment today. We pay a lot higher percentage of earnings on housing now too.

[4lbs]

4. Much of the massive home price increase from 1998 to 2008 was people buying 2nd and 3rd homes,

and then flipping them for a 20 to 25 percent profit in 6 months.

"All with little to no money down!" as that late-night infomercial says. In addition, the "Flip This House" TV show didn't help things.

Just like a ponzi scheme, eventually the size of the increases cause the whole thing to collapse, leaving only those that got in at the very beginning unscathed. The rest are holding massive debts.

There needs to be a way to limit this secondary and tertiary home flipping so that they don't artificially inflate home prices.

In addition, the weird way homes are valued from region to region. You can have two houses, built at virtually the same time, in the exact same manner, using the exact same blueprints, and be worth two widely different values. One could be in one middle class neighborhood and be estimated to be worth $250K, while the other that is almost the twin, could be in a richer neighborhood and be estimated to be worth $400K or $450K. However, there truly isn't $150K+ of actual difference in the construction of the homes.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

6. Location, location, location

When you buy a house you are buying land in a certain location.

The house sitting on the location is usually worth equal to or less than the land, hence the difference.

100K land - 200K house=300K

300K land - 200K house=500K

[4lbs]

8. That doesn't explain how existing homes saw values almost double in 8 to 10 years.

My parents' home saw it's value increase from $200K in 1997 to almost $350K in 2006 simply because other already existing homes around it (all of which were about 40 to 50 years old), sold for $300K+.

They hadn't increased the value any themselves, other than a $3000 re-roofing done in 1997. However, nothing that would warrant a 75% increase in home value in just a decade. Also, nothing to warrant a 1000% increase in home value from their original $35K purchase price in 1973, in 30 years.


Because of the massive increase in home prices, families had to work 2, 3, 4 jobs just to be able to afford the mortgage payments. Mortgage payments that should have been no more than 30% of their monthly net pay, became 50 or even 60 percent of their pay with multiple jobs. That's a recipe for disaster, housing market collapse, and massive foreclosure.

[NJmaverick]

7. Some of that increase is the result of increased divorce rates

with more families setting up in two separate homes you see an increase in the demand for housing. When demand rises the cost rises.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

5. Well stated. About female participation...

re: Female participation.

It's an interesting question. The increase in adult participation in the workforce is always explained in terms of increased female participation, but that's more a description than an explanation.

If the number of jobs stays the same a new qualified female is replacing a less-qualified male... it doesn't change the percentage of employed adults, just changes the gender mix.

But new jobs appeared to absorb greater female participation. The nature of the cause and effect relationships is puzzling and intriguing.

I would like to see a chart of wages/benefits as a percentage of GDP. Are we just dividing the same pie in smaller slices?

It's an interesting phenomenon.

But either way, during this crisis a lot of two-income families have become one income families and found that two-incomes is no longer optional.

[shraby]

10. In the 60s though, we had a black and white t.v.,

2 channels, many didn't have automatic washing machines and hung the clothes outside to dry (I hung them on a line in my upstairs in the winter) it kept the kids from catching cold with the extra moisture in the air. Most of us didn't have automatic dishwashers, we had one car unless a teenager bought a beater for him/herself.

We canned a good portion of our food, my mother would put 500 quarts up per year, I did about 200 or so. It was a whole different world until Lee Iococa got the bailout from the government and raised the price of cars to about triple what they were at the time. Then things exploded with women going to work.

The schools had just begun to consolidate into the behemoths they are now which took away the person rapport that teachers had with their students. I could go on, but I won't.

[NJmaverick]

13. Some of the increase in cars is the result of the technology in them

Cars of today burn cleaner, use less gas, are infinitely safer and need less maintenance. They have added things like anti-lock brakes, air bags, energy absorbing frames, direct fuel injection, variable valve timing, catalytic converters, GPS navigation, power everything standard, AC standard and other features. There is more computing power in the average car then was even possible in the 60s.

[shraby]

14. The cars didn't have that stuff when the price was jacked

out of sight.

[gkhouston]

9. You're assuming "employment" now equals "employment" in the 60's and 70's.

A lot of people now are working part-time or temporary minimum wage jobs with no security, no benefits, and no hope of advancement. I'm guessing that a good percentage of those 60's and 70's jobs were of the sort my dad had -- the kind where you basically worked for one company your entire career and there were decent benefits. Those sorts of jobs weren't universal, but they weren't uncommon, either.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. actaully, I am assuming the opposite

The point of the OP is that jobs are not as good as they were

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[swilton]

15. More Stuff + Less Fun = Consumerism

The technological revolution exponentially expanded the desire for consumer goods - more things we wanted that were manufactured goods as opposed to more stuff that are needed - Middle class consumerism not experienced by the lower class who buy what they need

As for better jobs - fewer jobs that are owned by small mom and pop businesses - again technology drives people to be highly trained and experienced - less able to transfer sills to different jobs.

This is just my theory as I was unable to connect to and read the cited article....But Marx astututely forecast that technology replacing workers and creating increased unemployment and with that alienation from one's work. I think that the large dissatisfaction in the workforce in the US is related to alienation - people today (blue collar to white collar) now work for corporate bosses and stockholders rather than working and earning and applying directly to some tangible good or outcome. I have long thought of the advantages of manual labor - better for health, the environment, and also unemployment figures.

[PassingFair]

16. You may have jobs where YOU are....but we have none HERE.

Manufacturing jobs have disappeared.

[kimmerspixelated]

17. I never noticed before how one of the great lakes

looks like a penis.

[PassingFair]

18. LOL...OK...I am NEVER giving you a Rorschach Test....

[kimmerspixelated]

19. HAHAHAHA

I can't think of what this is...at all!! An outline of a recently squashed bug???!!

[Zynx]

20. It's a very good point. The employment to population ratio has risen over time out of necessity.

[treestar]

21. What's getting by is the question

In the 80s you didn't absolutely have to have a computer.

Health care is more expensive because of the technology. Which helps, but in the end, it's more expensive.

In the 70s oil crisis people thought in terms of smaller cars. But we didn't stick to that overall and save the money.