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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:14 PM
Original message
We must be getting close to the finish line
on this HC legislation.

The screeching and caterwauling and concern trolling are vibrating everywhere.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. BINGO.
We have a winnah!
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Meaning what, exactly?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Saw some GOP loudmouth moran on TV this morning making a "statement"
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 01:48 PM by old mark
on the HCR bill. He raised 3 objections, all of which were lies, spoken in a voice suggesting he was terrified of the consequences-for the good of the PEOPLE, of course-if the bill passed.
The number of lies per minute has noticeably increased over the last weekend - they are scared it will pass and-worse for them-that some of it might WORK and voters will notice.

Starting to suck to be the GOP, but it will be worse in November when they lose.

mark
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. Yeah, the fucking regressives are out
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 01:52 PM by Cha
in full armour gear.
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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. You hit the nail on the head...
anti-obama underground is running at full speed.

:puke:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's the sound of the far left and the far right colliding.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. Oh yea. Teabaggers from both sides are terrified
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denimgirly Donating Member (929 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
10. Something tells me if there was a Public Option you'd have unified praise...
When you have no cost control, mandated insurance, and a happy wallstreet with record highs for a corrupt health industry i find it surprising that you are befuddled with the back and forth.
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dave29 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. not befuddled, nor surprised.
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 04:33 PM by dave29
That's what the OP is stating, and even with a public option there would be screaming about no Universal Healthcare.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Five cost controls in the Senate health-care bill
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 04:45 PM by FrenchieCat
....someone asked after the cost controls in the Senate bill,

Herewith, a partial list of the cost controls in the Senate bill:

1) Bundled payments: A lot of the focus has been on cost controls that work through the insurance system. But costs aren't rising because insurance is expensive. They're rising because health care is expensive. The experiments with bundled payments are an attempt to begin addressing those drivers directly. Right now, hospitals get paid for each procedure they conduct. If you come in with symptoms of a stroke, they get one check for the diagnostic, one check for the stroke medication, one check for the surgery, etc. And if you have to come back in two weeks, they get more money for that, too.

Under bundled payments, the hospital would receive one check for everything related to your stroke over a single period of time. That means they make more money from doing less, rather than more money from doing more. It also gives them an incentive to coordinate care when you're out of the hospital, as it's cheaper to get a nurse to call and make sure you're taking your medicine than it is to have you in for a follow-up procedure. For more on the bundled payments system, and Sen. Mark Warner's efforts to strengthen it, see this post, or this article.

2) Prudent purchasing: Howard Dean gave this prominent play in his op-ed this morning, and he was right to do so. The only problem is that he said it's not in the bill, and it is.

Prudent purchasing means that insurers can't enter, or stay, in the exchanges unless regulators are satisfied that they're doing a good job. That works both to ensure a good product, but also to hold costs down. If an insurer wants to hike premiums, for instance, they have to submit a justification to the exchanges and post that justification publicly on their Web site. If the exchange isn't convinced, that insurer can be dropped from the exchange, losing all customers and profits they were making.

Do this to one or two insurers, one or two times, and the message will be pretty strong. Moreover, it will go a ways towards countering the status quo bias that current infects insurance purchasing, wherein people don't change because, well, it's a pain to change insurers, and so insurers aren't forced to provide products as good as a competitive market would ordinarily demand. It also gives regulators a way to tamp down destructive marketing (an insurer can be dropped for using their marketing to try and cherrypick healthy customers -- say, by advertising exclusively in Runner's Monthly) and seed quality reforms.

3) The Medicare Commission: One reason there's so much packed into this iteration of health-care reform is because it's so hard to overcome the status quo outside of a massive reform effort. Common-sense delivery system reforms don't attract sufficient interest to muscle pass interest group opposition. The Medicare Commission streamlines the reform process, forcing a panel of independent experts to suggest a package of reforms in years when spending growth is too rapid and forcing Congress to vote on the package -- no amendments, and no filibuster.

The Medicare Commission enjoys a catalytic interaction with other elements of the bill, as it offers a process to take small programs and convert them into systemwide reforms. A pilot program that's working well, for instance, might be included in the next year's reform package, making it a policy that makes Medicare work better. This policy could be made a lot better if the Senate passes the Rockefeller-Lieberman-Whitehouse amendment.

4) The excise tax on high-value health insurance: This is, essentially, a tax on the unchecked growth in premiums. The key here is that the threshold at which premium dollars begin getting taxed at 40 percent doesn't rise as quickly as premiums costs generally rise. Now imagine two insurers: One holds costs down quite well, and one holds costs down quite poorly. Within a couple of years, the costlier insurer's plan is $3,000 over the threshold, while the cheaper insurer remains under it. The tax amplifies the difference between the two. The costlier insurer is suddenly $4,200 more than the cheaper insurer. In this way, plans with more successful cost-control mechanisms get an even larger market advantage. This makes the insurance market even more competitive in terms of price. For a longer explanation, read this post.

5) The individual mandate: In the last few days, an odd argument has arisen. The individual mandate, people say, must be sacrificed on the altar of cost control. The truth is quite the opposite. First, the individual mandate lowers average premium costs by bringing healthy people into the system. If the only people buying insurance are the people who expect to need to use it, the average cost will be prohibitively high. But second, the individual mandate is the political spur for future cost controls.

In a world without a universal health-care structure and an individual mandate, premium increases are a shame, but not much of a political problem. In a world with an individual mandate, large premium increases are Congress' problem. It focuses the mind on cost control. Given a choice between passively letting people become uninsured and taking on providers and insurers, Congress will choose the path of inaction. But given a choice between voting to take people's insurance away and taking on providers and insurers? That's a harder decision. Right now, the pressure in the political system comes from organized interests. The mandate levels the playing field. More on that here.

And that's not all, of course. There's the interaction of comparative effectiveness review and health information technology. There's the hope that regulations on insurers force them to innovate on price and quality, rather than on denying coverage to sick people. There are the good points Jon Gruber makes in this interview.

Will it all work? Define work. Will it be enough? Almost certainly not. Is it more than we've ever done before? Absolutely. And does it do more for cost control than the continuation of the status quo? Again, absolutely.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/five_cost_controls_in_the_sena.html
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Truth "PWNES" cynicism...
As it should. Well done, Frenchie!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. #4. Shitty, shitty insurance for people 50-64 is really expensive
Voila! Pure crap is instantly transformed into a "Cadillac" plan. The health care "reform" abomination permanently designates old people not old enough for Medicare to the disposable human garbage pile.

A mandate without a public option available is nothing but fascism, plain and simple.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. Sorry, most people don't have a Cadillac Plan, period.......
even in that age group you cite!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Based on cost of premums many do. They just get shitty coverage
And premium inflation will push many more into that designation in a few years.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. knr
NT
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SanchoPanza Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Something tells me if people knew how insurance worked...
... those same people wouldn't give a shit about a public option.

It's a fundamentally meaningless proposition once risk pools, especially individual policy pools, become virtually immune to risk selection by for-profit insurers looking to take all the healthy and profitable people for themselves. Vermont doesn't have a public option, yet it has the same rating and issue regulations that are in the Senate and House legislation. And, surprise of surprises, its non-profit insurers have been doing rather well for nearly two decades. Meanwhile, in the state of Tennessee, where such regulations do not exist, the TennCare program has been teetering on the brink for years as more and more high risk individuals are added to the rolls and low risk individuals are taken by companies like UnitedHealth, resulting in enrollment caps (after a single year of operation, no less) and benefit cuts.

This back and forth exists because DU provides a nice echo chamber for people who have no clue how insurance systems work to pontificate ad nauseum about their political fetishes. Just find the threads that say the things you want to read, and increase its rec count. Hooray, I'm fighting The Man by letting my anonymous opinion be known. +1!

But people have to face facts. Unless you think the biggest cost control is whether or not the management of a non-profit insurer are all on the GS15 pay scale (and even that isn't clear in the proposals put forward), this is a political fetish. The difference between a Public Option and Single Payer is in financing. A Single Payer system is funded through general taxation. A Public Option is funded by premiums and out-of-pocket costs. Just like any other private insurer.
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WonderGrunion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. No the complaints would change to "It's not a real Public Option"
I don't think there is any pleasing the anti-HCR people on the left. I expect the right to be against expanding health coverage to 30 million Americans, but the left?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. My time on this board convinces me
the same people would still be screeching if there was a PO.

They would just find something else it does not have.

they are the addicted to outrage.
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mkultra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. whatever. The bitching about SP would be fully engaged.
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
29. Your concern is duly noted. (nt)
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. 91 posts in 6 days, 80 of which denigrate, attack of promote threads attacking Obama or healthcare
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 02:08 PM by HughMoran
Concern duly noted - you old pro :think:
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is the point in time when the voices of the cynics get louder and louder.
Because they have nothing else left. And neither extreme side care about people without healthcare, in reality. Their principles overides anything that people might benefit from. The Hatred of Insurance companies on the Left and the Hatred of Barack Obama on the Right is more important than anything that could be done to help people, because they don't really count in the equation.

The conclusions... "I'm Right so Do Nothing" (from the Right), or "I'm Right, so do Everything or Nothing" (from the Left) morphs together, and ends up giving us nothing but Republicans winning in 2010, and possibly Republicans winning 2012. So the end Results are the same. The Right's priority is quite predicted, but for those posing as progressives, it doesn't make a damn bit of sense, as they only help the Right and don't in any way help the people that they are supposed to be "concerned" about.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. As one who this bill would
really really really help, I'm saddened by the attacks from the left that would have it defeated.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 04:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Bully for you. It royally fucks people between 50 and 64 n/t
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. I am 60. I HAVE coverage.
I do not live in a vacuum. Those near and dear to me need rescue.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #27
37. Shitty coverage that you can't afford to use is not "rescue" n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. To personify ..it's the point where
a Kucinich and a Pence morphed into a one big regressive NO.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
21. Yep, getting very close to enacting Baucus-driven madate-based insurance-protecting neo-feudalism --
forgive me if I"m not overjoyed. :eyes:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. It's not the Baucus bill, and
there will be enough overjoyed people to make up for the disappointed.

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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Was "neo-feudalism" your vocab word of the day? (nt)
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. .
:spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray: :spray:
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
26. Yup
those who care more about punishing insurance companies than getting people access to health care are becoming agitated.
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick
:kick:
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
31. Good
The more pathetic the whining, the better the Dems are doing. The concern trolls have tried and failed to kill my family.
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Wardoc Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
34. "Concern trolling"? LOL. IOW, if you don't like the bill you are suppose to sit down and shut up..
Not me. I am very "concerned/pissed off" that this garbage bill is going to line the pockets of insurance industry execs in exchange for giving Obama a symbolic, rather than substantive, "victory".

The ones who pay are the people.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
36. Yup.
The fucks.
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