Kucinich Becomes Target of Health Care Whip Campaign

[babylonsister]

Kucinich Becomes Target of Health Care Whip Campaign

by Sam Stein


With the real possibility that a handful of lawmakers -- or even a single vote -- in the House of Representatives could end up deciding the fate of health care reform, advocates are suddenly targeting the chamber's most progressive holdout.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio.) has firmly staked out his opposition to health care reform's passage, citing the timidity of the legislative language and, specifically, the unwillingness of lawmakers to seriously consider a single payer system.

For months, leadership had assumed his position was unalterable. But with an "all hands on deck" whip operation now in progress, Kucinich is getting a burst of attention.

In a meeting at the White House on Thursday, President Obama directly addressed the congressman's concerns by pointing out that the Senate bill does, in fact, include single-payer language. His reference (which Kucinich wrote down on paper) is a provision in the bill that Sen. Bernie Sander (I-VT) introduced, which would allow states to use federal money to set up a single payer system years down the road.

On Monday, Sanders told the Huffington Post that he had talked to Kucinich about the topic - albeit "a while back."

"He was coming from a slightly different angle on this," Sanders said. "But we did talk to Dennis and I've talked to {Rep.} Anthony Weiner and other" single-payer advocates.

Sanders said his provision is a significant step towards making the bill more to Kucinich's liking, but he didn't sound optimistic that either his personal lobbying or his legislative language would persuade Kucinich in the end. "Dennis looks at the world the way he looks at the world," Sanders said.

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/03/08-6

[Uzybone]

1. "Dennis looks at the world the way he looks at the world,"

How true.

[ProSense]

2. Leaning No: Will Kucinich Become The Ralph Nader Of Health Care Reform?

Leaning No: Will Kucinich Become The Ralph Nader Of Health Care Reform?

As the health care reform fight enters its final days, most eyes are on about two dozen pro-life and vulnerable Democrats in the House, where the greatest number of votes remain in play. But could the fate of reform actually rest in the hands of a long-serving progressive?

House Democrats are doing whatever they can to secure the 216 votes they'll likely need to pass the Senate bill, and it's shaping up to be a squeaker. Abortion foes are threatening to defect, as are some squeamish vulnerable Dems. Balancing them out, leadership hopes, are several members who voted "no" on the House health care bill in November, but are now back in the mix--these are, for the most part, retiring members, and freshmen from competitive districts.

But one of the House's leading progressives says he's unlikely to be swayed. Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) voted against the House health care bill. And his office confirmed to me today that he remains opposed to the Senate bill.

<...>

But there is some chance, however small, that Kucinich will cast the deciding vote. And for the time being, he's saying he'd rather be the Ralph Nader of reform, instead of its kingmaker.

Kucinich will vote no just as he did before.

[babylonsister]

3. That would really, really suck. nt

[IndianaGreen]

4. Why would Kucinich vote against the interests of the working class?

A man can't serve two masters. Democratic Party can serve the corporations or the workers, not both!

[AnOhioan]

6. Thank you Indiana Green, for stating it so succinctly. +1

[MadMaddie]

13. He is on KO now

[IndianaGreen]

17. I saw that!

Dennis speaks for me and for the working class.

[ProSense]

26. When he votes no, maybe the unions will give him the Blanche Lincoln treatment. Then again,

he'll just be casting a vote on the losing side of history.

[IndianaGreen]

29. Union rank-and-file are opposed to Senate HCR

and they are pretty pissed at Obama's broken promises to labour.

[ProSense]

32. In your dreams. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

33. Unlike you, I belong to a union

[BklnDem75]

71. Same here

Speak for you own local. My local don't share your views.

[spoony]

80. And same here.

That's why this propaganda campaign so weakly waged on DU is frustrating its operators: we know better and we aren't falling for it!

[SoxFan]

78. Bullshit

That's flat-out false.

[Bluenorthwest]

76. I'm a Union member, you are not

And I am laughing in your face. Unions love those who speak up and at least try for the best possible outcome. We are people who have gone on strike, kiddo.

[inna]

47. exactly. thank you.

[SoxFan]

77. To keep up his Holy Martyr schtick

The guy is an egomaniac who craves attention, and being the Purity Gadfly is how he achieves it.

[warm regards]

82. I suspect he knows something that we don't know.

After all, his aids have had time to actually read the bill and let him know exactly what is in it.

Or what is not in it.

[ShortnFiery]

72. Ralph Nader was right then (2004) and he's right now.

:thumbsup:

[karynnj]

75. I agree with you that Nader was right at least once in 2004 - when he praised John Kerry

what made less sense was his comment that he thought his being in the race helped Kerry as he (Nader) could attack Bush harder. At any rate, he was not a big issue in 2004 - because people had learned from 2000. Nader was a disaster in 2000 - and Gore and Bush are very different.

Faced with growing concerns about Ralph Nader's potential to siphon off Democratic votes, John Kerry began a forceful but delicate effort on Wednesday to win over the man whose candidacy caused so much trouble for the Democratic nominee four years ago.


Mr. Kerry did not ask him to abandon the race, and Mr. Nader showed no signs of bowing out. But Mr. Kerry's wooing did seem to be having the desired effect already. In an interview immediately after what participants called a very friendly one-hour meeting at Mr. Kerry's headquarters, Mr. Nader called Mr. Kerry ''very presidential,'' fondly recalled his antiwar leadership in the 1970's, praised his skills as a politician and quite favorably compared Mr. Kerry to Vice President Al Gore...

Mr. Nader had nothing but kind things to say about Mr. Kerry in a chuckle-filled telephone interview after the meeting. He said he and Mr. Kerry had done a little reminiscing. Mr. Nader recalled inviting Mr. Kerry over for a meeting in 1971 after Mr. Kerry gave his testimony against the Vietnam War to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. And Mr. Kerry recalled urging Mr. Nader to run for president in 1980.

''I've known him a long time,'' Mr. Nader said. ''It's hard not to like a 27-year-old guy who comes back from the war and helps lead the antiwar movement.''

(from a NYT article ( http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9506E0DD103FF933A15756C0A9629C8B63&scp=1&sq=nader+and+kerry&st=nyt ) quoted here"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/glenn-hurowitz/what-kerry-did-right-enga_b_88317.html

[Clio the Leo]

5. History won't record a "no because it wasn't good enough" vote...

... those who want to join the party of "No!" by offering to stand and vote with them will be viewed with them as enemies of progress.

[IndianaGreen]

7. 'Enemies of progress?' Kinda Orwellian on your part, don't you think?

War is Peace, such as Obama getting the Nobel Peace Prize just before he escalates the war.

Health Care Reform, when in reality is an insurance bailout in which you are forcing people to buy the moral equivalent of a Yugo at BMW prices.

[Clio the Leo]

11. I've had too much Easter candy today.

Plus I'm trying this whole "rhetorical hyperbole" thing that a lot of folks around here have made into a pastime.

It's kinda fun. :bounce:

[slipslidingaway]

34. And close to 18,000 posts in 18 months defending and promoting any action from

the administration.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Forgive my ignorance, but when is Easter?

Honest question.

[girl gone mad]

44. History will look very kindly on Kucinich.

Today's youth will most certainly owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

[NJmaverick]

8. GOOD! People's lives are more important than Dennis' ego

[HughMoran]

9. With Dems like this, who needs an enema?

I want to laugh cause thinking about pounding someone's face in is just not a productive use of my energy.

[Phx_Dem]

10. Good. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

12. Kucinich is on Olbermann right now!

Dennis RAAAWWWKKKSSS!

[jenmito]

16. And Sam Stein just said he "stands alone" so I doubt he'll be able to kill the bill. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

24. Kucinich was not able to kill the IWR vote, although he did point out

the case for invading Iraq was built on lies and that the people would suffer as funds would be diverted from domestic issues.

For almost a decade he introduced a bill to create jobs rebuilding our failing infrastructure and that was ignored as well.

He also said that the final bill would not include a public option in his "sausage making post" on Daily Kos and many here in GDP mocked that prediction.

:shrug:

[jenmito]

14. He was just on Countdown reaffirming his resolve to kill the bill if there's no PO

and he's the vote needed. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

15. No Public Option, no bill!

Dennis has been consistent, unlike Nancy Pelosi!

[jenmito]

18. Nancy Pelosi is probably the most successful Speaker in a looooong time!

She lives in reality with most of us, unlike Kucinich.

[IndianaGreen]

21. Like when she put impeachment off the table and agreed to Stupak amendment

Success is in the eye of the beholder.

[jenmito]

25. Could you imagine trying to impeach Bush/Cheney with everything else going on? And you

obviously don't understand strategy-Stupak's amendment is not going to be in the final bill and she knew that. Allowing it in at that time was the only way it would pass THAT stage.

[IndianaGreen]

27. What part of the Constitution are you willing to shred?

The rule of law demands the prosecution of the likes of John Yoo, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Bush and Cheney.

[jenmito]

31. None of it. There will be time, I hope, at a later time in Obama's presidency.

There's no time now.

[IndianaGreen]

35. Didn't Obama take an oath to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii#section1

There is no wiggle room for any President to pick and choose which laws he wants to enforce.

[jenmito]

38. Does that mean Obama has the responsibility to bring to justice every president before him that

deserves it? I'd like him to try to impeach Bush and Cheney, but I'm not sure his oath demands him to do so.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Bush made the public statement that he purposely violated FISA

and Cheney made the public statement that he is the one that pushed for torture.

Obama has a duty to prosecute them!

[jenmito]

41. You didn't answer my question. n/t

[IndianaGreen]

43. If we hung our war criminals, regardless of their past lofty positions

it would be a deterrent to future war crimes.

[mr715]

48. Oh bull.

You are coming out in favor of the death penalty?

And we would be the ones executing a U.S. President? Not the international court?

Who will enforce these international laws - the US? Shall we go around bombing every state that has been guilty of corruption and abuse of power? Shall we kill their leaders? Shall we abduct members of their parliaments?

Or shall we hope their people throw out those leaders, spit on their legacies, and move on?

Bush is gone. Bush is gone. Bush is gone. Bush is gone.

Impeachment would not pass.

Impeachment would not pass.

Impeachment would not pass.

Impeachment would not pass.

Kucinich knew that.

Kucinich knew that.

Kucinich knew that.

Why chase windmills when there is important business to be done?

[IndianaGreen]

51. Since the US doesn't recognize the ICC, we must try them in the US

The ICC has no death penalty, while the US does. A man responsible for the death and dislocation of millions, as it happened in Iraq, deserves the maximum penalty allowed by the law.

[mr715]

54. Well, there are legal issues there.

He was either the chief or VP, and so would be protected in legal proceedings.

If he is impeached, and removed, then the question becomes was there a 1-to-1, no possibility of doubt... well, then...

But for crimes overseas, wouldnt he need to be tried for those crimes in the country where they were committed?

AND I suppose we should hang all the soldiers involved as well.


Bush is gone. Try to keep him out by supporting the President's agenda.

[IndianaGreen]

57. The US punishes soldiers that were duped into following illegal orders

Did any of the CIA contractors involved in torture were ever prosecuted? Yet, a handful of low ranking soldiers had the book thrown at them for doing what they were ordered to do.

[mr715]

58. So shall we execute them all?

[IndianaGreen]

61. Not the soldiers that were lied to into a war, and duped into performing illegal acts

However, the decision makers are a different story altogether. They should be tried for crimes against humanity, and if convicted, they should face the ultimate penalty.

[mr715]

63. Does the US system of justice recognize

laws against humanity?

And what about middle management? Rumsfeld under secretary. Should s/he be killed?

[IndianaGreen]

65. We are talking about prosecutions, not cold blooded murder in here!

[slipslidingaway]

28. No impeachment for almost 5 million orphans! :(((( n/t

[ShortnFiery]

73. Yes, I really loved her when she stated "Impeachment is off of the table."

If Pelosi's behavior during the Bush Administration is any example of her character, I don't trust her.

[ProSense]

19. Kucinich is a clown n/t

[jenmito]

22. He's probably headed to Faux to be interviewed like the other killthebillers. n/t

[HughMoran]

20. He is a disgrace

Between Stupak and Kucinich, we've got some selfish assholes who could care less about the average Democrat. UGGH - I am so fucking angry at these fools.

[IndianaGreen]

23. The disgrace are those of you that have compromised every Democratic core value

on the altar of political pragmatism and expediency.

[slipslidingaway]

30. !!! n/t

[Robeson]

49. What makes you assume...

...they're Democrats?

[w4rma]

59. Will he definitely sign on with a public option? If so, then GOOD. (nt)

[subterranean]

37. Hey, it worked for Lieberman, Nelson and Stupak.

Lieberman didn't want the Medicare buy-in, and it was stripped out of the Senate bill posthaste. Nelson threatened to vote no unless he got special favors for his state. Obama said "Yes, sir." Stupak refused to vote for the House bill without abortion language that he approved. He got it. Why can't they just throw a public option into the reconciliation bill to appease Kucinich?

[jillan]

39. Kucinich voted against S-Chip too.

It's like he wants it his way or NO WAY. We ALL want a PO, Dennis, but are you really going to deny my kids healthcare because it's not in there?

[slipslidingaway]

60. After three posts to the same poster on Kucinich's S-Chip vote the poster

dropped the issue.

In the end Kucinich was finally able to achieve health care for children who had been dropped in the 1990's, too many people wanted the quick and not so comprehensive fix.

Kucinich held out for all children who had been denied.

And this poster never replied to one of my posts, but at least they dropped that talking point which was used to smear Kucinich.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5938303&mesg_id=5943354

First of all Bush had already threatened to veto the SCHIP bill... then when language was removed from the bill which would cover legal immigrant children and pregnant women, Kucinich voted NO.

Many had been waiting since 1996, see links below, Congress finally included (2009) those who had been excluded.

Kucinich was on the right side of history, it just others awhile to catch up.

[SoxFan]

42. Kucinich is a self-centered diva

He puts his quasi-celebrity role as cult-hero for the far left ahead of actual progress on a crucial issue. He can go pound sand.

[ShortnFiery]

74. Kucinich lives by the courage of his moral convictions. He will receive his reward in Heaven ...

because unlike 90% of the other legislators, Kucinich is not in it "for the money."

I greatly admire Dennis Kucinich. :patriot:

[Phx_Dem]

81. Conservative Dems like Stupak could say the same thing.

[inna]

45. Will probably get Massa'd/Van Jones'd next.

[AnOhioan]

46. Ah..I love to watch the haters come out every time Dennis....

is mentioned. What's the matter folks??

Oh, wait, I know...he reminds you what it is like to be a Democrat with actual Democratic values.

Must really suck to be a Democrat that holds values only when it's convenient.

[mr715]

50. No, it reminds you of how cults of personality hurt political discourse.

Kucinich speaks and it is true.

Yay, for He is the Power and the Glory.

He voted against S-CHIP for god's sake!

But thats cool too.

[AnOhioan]

52. Your words, not mine

No Kucinich supporter thinks he is right all the time...but in this case...without a doubt...he is.

[jefferson_dem]

55. Saint Dennis...

His Holiness...so pure.

If, heaven fobid, this bill falls through, I encourage every person who is denied coverage because of pre-existing, every person who is dropped because they have exhausted their benefits and fall into a "high risk" poll, write the little shit a FU note, and work to get him kicked to the curb where he will belong.

[niceypoo]

66. Most of the Democrats in congress are eunuchs.

How dare someone stand on principle! All hail the neutered sheep!!

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

69. LMAO

No, he reminds me what happens when you prefer to grandstand over actually doing something that might help our nation. Principles are completely fucking meaningless if you never actually act on them, and Kucinich never has. Not once in his life.

[SnoopDog]

53. If more Congressmen were as principled and for Americans as Kucinich is...

We would have Medicare for all....

We would be out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

We would have ended NAFTA and got our jobs back.

We would audit the Federal Reserve.

We would have more consumer protection.

We would have more bank regulation.

You know... things that need to be done to take back our country...

[mr715]

56. How?

They would all want THEIR version of the bill.

They wouldn't care one BIT for their constituents. Its about them.

Do you have any evidence these would pass?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

70. This assumes a lot of falsehoods.

Such as A) that the only principles that matter are those that you agree with and B) that there is only one vision of America that is valid. You are entirely incorrect on both counts. It also assumes that he is principled rather than trying to boost his own ego, which I'd also count as false, but that's more of an opinion than a fact.

[Jennicut]

62. Why bother targeting someone who lives with pie in the sky ideas and not with reality?

I don't hate DK as some here do, he just exasperates me. He means well....but accomplishes nothing. "If only all Dems were like him"....yes, but they are not.

[Arkana]

64. Don't know why they're bothering.

Kucinich isn't interested in progress.

[frazzled]

67. Yo, that's what Democratic whips are supposed to do: get Democrats to vote for...

Democratic bills. That's not "targeting": that's their job.

Jeebus H. Pifco, everyone here is always complaining that the Democrats can't whip everyone in the party to vote for our agenda, like the Republicans manage to do. Then when they actually try to do that, wild cards like Dennis Kucinich say no thanks. It's every bit as bad as any Blue Dog who votes no on this bill because of electoral reasons back home, pro-life agenda, or anything else. Come to think about it, is DK really one of the Stupak gang? He was rabidly anti-abortion for many years, until he ran for president. Maybe now that that's over, he's back to voting against choice.

[JoeyT]

68. I don't really see what the problem is.

Give him a public option and he'll shut up and vote for it. Seems pretty simple to me.
We were perfectly willing to give Stupak and Lieberman(Who isn't a Democrat) exactly what they wanted.
Why should Kucinich be any different?

If he gets what he wants and votes against it anyway, then we can all scream for his head.

[BklnDem75]

79. Didn't he vote NO on the House bill that had a PO?

Anything less than everything Dennis wants isn't good enough for him.