Why is it that Hating on Kucinich is so Good but Criticizing Obama is so Bad?

[last1standing]

I keep hearing that we need to support Democrats whether we agree with their policies or not, yet these same people trash a progressive like Kucinich with no sense of irony.

The chant "Let not the perfect be the enemy of the good" is blasted over the internet repeatedly yet the same people doing this seem to think a republican would be better than the Democratic congressman, Dennis Kucinich.

Those of us asking why Obama hasn't done anything to help the average person keep being told that he's "just the president" or "he needs more time" but these are the same ones who are currently plastering the net with the "Kucinich hasn't done anything" TPMs.

It's becoming apparent to even the least aware person that there is a concerted effort to disenfranchise any progressive from speaking up in favor of real Health Care Reform, supporting Unions, GLBT human rights, prosecuting torturers and other sensible, moderate ideas all in the name of expediency and practicality.

More than that, they are stifling real Democrats in the name of Obamacracy, a perversion of the Democratic party that once stood for the average guy, not he average CEO.

Hating on Kucinich is just the latest play from a disgusting and cynical book. Who will be next?

[Skittles]

1. it's what bots do

[CBR]

16. DKbots... you are absolutely correct. nt

[Moochy]

109. Advanced Emmanuel bots who have mastered the switcheroo technique

:hi:

[Skittles]

114. DKbots hate Kucinich?

WTF? Idiotic.

[KittyWampus]

118. No, idiotic is using "bots" like an eleven year old on the play ground.

[Skittles]

121. it fits

there ABSOLUTELY is a bot mentality going on and it is EXREMELY disturbing to see on a PROGRESSIVE board. If someone tolerates NO CRITICISM of someone they favor they are a BOT.

[suede1]

2. You'll be flamed, but you are right. It will take some time, but they will eventually come around.

Some are just quicker on the uptake.

[ShortnFiery]

29. Remember how many of us opposed the Iraq Invasion and the bail-out of the Banksters?

HRC is like that ... it's a horrid "Trojan Horse" that, once in place, will represent MANDATES without care to Americans. A more sweet transfer of wealth from the working classes to the ultra wealthy Insurance Cartel and Big Pharma.

We'll get to say "I told you so" because so many people are still so "in love" with everything this Administration does, they don't see through the CON JOB, i.e., the man behind the curtain is a corporatist. :(

[JI7]

3. how stupid, the ones who bash Obama get so easily offended by any criticism

just look at that stupid thread about how Gibbs or someone else said something and someone posted about how he was being so mean .

and i don't even think Gibbs was referring to them.

[last1standing]

4. Yeah, I remember when someone said something and someone else was like OMG!!!

Thanks for an incredibly helpful response. :eyes:

[JI7]

5. and what i said applies to this post also

[last1standing]

6. When you actually say something, I'll take it into consideration.

You don't seem to get the irony of attacking a Democrat in one post while screaming at those who criticize Obama in another. Instead you offer up some vague comment about Gibbs saying something to someone and someone thinking it was mean. Who the fuck can follow that?

[salguine]

50. Seems to me the ones that stick to Obama no matter how bad he fucks them over are the

ones that get offended by any criticism. You can't question anything Obama does without being branded a "troll", a "freeper", or god knows what else.

[FrenchieCat]

7. Last I checked Kucinich is more popular here at DU than is

President Barack Obama.

Just last week, Obama was being called a MoFo right here at DU.
I asked to have that post deleted......
But then, in fact, every day, Obama is called outside of his name....

http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4293749&mesg_id=4297393


Kucinich had his day in the sun today for a hot minute
as he has before....but that too shall pass (rather quickly, I might add).

I regard your op as Flamebait and nothing more.

[last1standing]

9. So you can insult Kucinich because he's popular but we can't criticize Obama because he's not?

Did you see logic in that before you posted it?

[Go2Peace]

10. actually, Democracy is kind of unwieldy. It is OK to criticize within the party, but....

there are some here who are here to messaging and see DU as "war". Once you see DU as this kind of a vehicle there really is no room left for honest debate or the normal party democracy dynamics. Everything has to go through a messaging filter where it either fits with the message or if not it is imperative to do what you can to annihilate the ideas. Sometimes that may even require that the poster be labeled a "commie"... oh oops, a "Freeper" or a "not real Democrat"

It is the nature of this conflict about what is the purpose of DU that causes a lot of this negativity. Certainly there would still be infighting. But messaging is completely at odds with discourse and ups the anti. Enforced messaging requires much more intolerance than would normally occur between two Democrats with varying opinion.

It is actually the "messaging" work that is making people line up into "camps". Someone bullies you and you get offended. Then pretty soon two camps are fighting just to fight each other. When in reality their positions are not nearly so far from each other.

[last1standing]

13. 100% Correct.

I don't mind people supporting Obama's policies. I just think they're generally taking us in the wrong direction. Sadly, that isn't good enough for those who need to stamp out any opposition at all costs.

[FrenchieCat]

11. The only thing I've said is that Kucinich is not a hero

for voting against a bill that would provide healthcare insurance
for my 7 year old nephew who cannot get any now.

Aside from that, I'm not big at bashing Democrats period,
if I can help it. That's not what I came to DU for originally,
and don't believe that doing this day in, day out, serves any
cause in terms of end results that would benefit progress in this country.

[last1standing]

12. I don't think he's a hero, either. On the other hand I support a little consistancy.

I'm seeing comments all over the internet spewing the same talking points personally attacking Kucinich from the very people who scream loudest when someone opposes a policy proposal from Obama. Either they are both fair game or neither is. Personally, I think we should feel free to criticize any public official without insulting individuals.

If you agree with that, then you should agree with my OP.

[FrenchieCat]

15. The people who decide that Obama's feet must be held to the fire.....

and that no one should tell them to STFU
are the same people who believe that Kucinich
is being insulted and that people should STFU about it.
It reminds me all of 3rd grade.

I support most of this President's policies,
even if they ain't exactly how I would go about doing things,
and Kucinich can vote how he wants to, even if in doing so
he denies my nephew and millions of others from gaining some possibility
of health care. In the end, he represents his consistuents and himself,
and that's about as much as I need to speak of Kucinich, period,
and you won't see me in another Kucinich thread,
cause that's not how I want to spend my time; hating on him
for exercising the right that his job offers him.

[last1standing]

18. LOL! Once again, either both can be criticized or neither.

It's hard to make a good argument that certain Obama supporters haven't been working very hard to diminish Kucinich personally in order to negate his views.

And you can talk about your nephew, who I'm sorry for, but Obama's plan does not provide many millions more with a health care option they can actually afford to use. You often talk about having resources so your nephew could get decent insurance. Unfortunately, millions of children don't have a financially stable aunt who could afford to help them out when their deductible is too high and the hospital won't cover them until they cough up the copay.

I support health care, not insurance care, for them.

[Go2Peace]

23. No, not if you see everything in terms of a "messaging" war on DU

at that point diverse opinion becomes a liability.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Well then, I guess that means that Kucinich can be criticized then.....

Cause Obama surely in the fuck gets criticized about everything all of the time.

I'm sure the media will use Kucinich tomorrow.....
because they don't give a shit about him or what he stands for....
just how he can be utilized to derail Obama's quest.

Same with Massa. The media will use him too.

Will those two allow themselves to be used as tools,
only to be discarded by the media when they've worn out the usefulness?
I'm sure if they were agreeing with Obama, the media would have no use for them,
and you wouldn't see hair or hide of either one of them till they'd be needed again.

We'll see.

[last1standing]

26. A lot of us who supported Obama understand what its like to be discarded.

So why should Kucinich feel differently?

As for criticizing him, I think his change from anti-choice to pro-choice just in time for the 2004 election was cynical beyond belief. I've never supported him because of that and other quick-step changes that showed me his lack of conviction.

Now can you offer up a substantial criticism of Obama or is he just too damned perfect?

[FrenchieCat]

27. I don't need to criticize Obama just because you offered Criticism of Kucinich......

I'm like back in the 5th grade,
and the big guy is blocking my way to the cafeteria or something? :wtf:

These days, I'm asked at least 2 or 3 times a day to criticize this President.
I'm not sure why I'm supposed to post according to these rules
y'all pulled out of your ass just because. :rofl:

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maryf]

32. I really do hope

You remember this if the bill passes and your 7 year old nephew is 10, or 14 before he sees any benefit from a bill that will fine folks who can't afford the premiums and taxes workers bennies...

[HughMoran]

64. Nonsense.

You have no idea what you're talking about. This bill helps everybody in my family as it allows me to afford insurance - oh, unless you're going to pay my $36,000/year premium? Go back to your socialist site and work on your manifesto :eyes:

[maryf]

136. It won't be in effect for years

and you know it...and do as the cake told Alice...

[suzie]

14. +1

[pecwae]

37. And the same OP with the presidents

name used in place of DK I'm sure you'd feel differently about. It'd be oh so justifiable and wise, deserving to be at the top of the Greatest and not at all flamebait.:rofl:

[HughMoran]

62. Hypocritical flame-bait, that is

OMG, talk about a 5 lb IRONy upside the head - holy crap does the victim mentality blind a person!

[Number23]

115. The idiot who posted that got exactly what he deserved.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=183295

This place is turning into a circus for lunatics with rabies.

[Go2Peace]

8. Because this forum is for coordinated talking points, not logic

It's pretty simple in GD Presidential.You would think a "forum" would be meant to "discussion", but you would be wrong in this case. The purpose is not honest discourse. The first purpose in this forum is message control. You are about as likely to get a true answer here as you are to win a lottery.

[CBR]

17. Please reverse this OP to ask the opposite question of DK supporters.

Thanks.

[last1standing]

19. I see far more of it coming from Obama supporters.

Far, far more.

However, I'm not against criticizing Kucinich, I'm not a supporter of his. I'm against the lack of irony with many of the people who have no problem spewing out whatever talking point the Obama administration gives them each day, regardless of what they said the day before.

[spoony]

71. And a lot of it is really over the top, personal slurs

About his marriage, his looks, his height, things that would--rightly--get locked in a split second if said about Obama.

[JoeyT]

20. Part of this is framing, part of it is confirmation bias.

I'm all in favor of people criticizing any politician they disagree with about anything. I don't have any particular heroes, but the closest I do have is probably Franken, and I'm sure I've either criticized him or will in the future.
Sacred cows that must not be criticized is a large part of what's wrong with politics.

[SimonPhoenix]

21. Probably because Kucinich looks like a LotR character, while

Obama is more normal-looking.

Couldn't have anything to do with Dennis's kooky policy positions. Nope.

[Go2Peace]

22. my preciouuuuuusssss, where is my preciuosssssss

I find a lot to agree with Kucinich, but you have to admit he does kind of strike a resemblance. But then, the hobbits were the good guys were they not? Thanks for the laugh though, I mean that in a good way. I got a kick out of the comparison.

[SimonPhoenix]

25. I've always hated Kucinich

I don't even try to hide it on here. He was anti-choice for his entire career until he decided to run for president. Abortion is a non-negotiable issue for me, even as a male voter. You're either down with choice or you're not. The kooky Department of Peace Kucinich wasn't down with it for quite some time. Then he just flip-flopped over a la Mitt Romney.

[ShortnFiery]

31. Good for you.

Your ire adds to my confidence that my respect for this brave man is well placed.

You go be with the "popular kids" because our American POLITICAL discord, as is, IMO, resembles not much more maturity than cliques found in Junior High Schools. ;)

[suzie]

34. For some reason, it's okay to criticize Stupak for being anti-choice, but not Kucinich.

[SimonPhoenix]

43. Stupak may be a fetus worshipper as well,

but I respect him for at least being upfront about it. He sticks with his convictions, unlike little Kucinich who flip-flops for political gain. I'll never forget his vote in favor of the flag burning ban or his support of the Republicans' investigation of President Clinton during Monicategate:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/1998/roll498.xml

Nope.

[spoony]

72. Well, only one is currently trying to stuff it into the law...

And I know this is a hard lesson for you because I've seen it explained to you a half dozen times now, but there's this concept called "time." Like, yesterday and today, it generally isn't accurate to talk about them like they're the same. And during the passing of this "time," people can do something we might call "change"...

[vaberella]

30. What are you talking about? Your post is ridiculous.

When someone criticizes Obama there are people there to support him. and the same thing is seen with Kucinich. Don't sit there and start a divisive thread when both sides are fairly out there saying what they believe. You're being intentionally obtuse with this post.

[Jennicut]

33. Look, this is a discussion board. No one is being stopped from criticizing anyone.

No one is being oppressed. That is a fallacy.

[RBInMaine]

35. No one "hates" Kucinich. That he is so purist is the problem. Be like that, & nothing can get done.

Dennnis and all Dems and progressives need to work together and compromise. That is called governing and getting things done. It's called REALITY.

[spoony]

75. Uh, right above you, number 25. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

120. See post #25

He actually admits it. (And probably did in all of his previous incarnations as well)

And when you have the Message Discipline LLC team launching literally dozens of DK bashing threads on one day, I think it's safe to assume they aren't doing so out of love.

As for your idea of "compromise", talk to me about that when the right wing is willing to compromise. And I'm not talking about Boner and McChinless. I'm talking about Lieberman, Baucus, Nelson, and Stupak.

[elocs]

36. You have those who view criticism of Kucinich as hating him,

exactly the same as there are those who view criticism of Obama as hating him. Isn't it sad that they cannot tell the difference? Although criticizing Kuninich at DU is akin to being in any way critical of anything about pot. My guess would be that criticizing Obama is much more welcomed and applauded here than saying anything negative about DK.

[DCBob]

38. A Republican would clearly not be better than Dennis.

But Dennis does do alot of harm to the Dem party with his over-the-top antics.

[bvar22]

126. A lot of harm?

Somebody need to speak the truth.

*Single Payer Universal HealthCare is not only possible, but cheaper.

*that "For Profit" HealthCare is obscene

*that Mandatory Health Insurance is NOT REALLY Universal HealthCare

*that the Democratic Party and American taxpayers should NOT be forced to subsidize some of the richest CEOs in history by subsidizing the HealthCare Insurance Corps and HMOs.

*that the USA SHOULD give the Imperial Palace (Green Zone) back to the Iraqis, close the permanent bases, expel all Corporate Consultants, withdraw ALL US Troops, and begin paying reparations NOW.

*that redeploying some troops at some future date is a PRO-WAR position.

*that the "Oil Law Benchmark" supported by the Democratic Party is a War Crime

*That we can have election accountability with "Paper Ballots publicly hand counted at the precinct".

*that we CAN cut $Billions$ from the Defense Budget

*that the RICHEST Corporations in history do NOT need $Billions$ in welfare subsidies

*that NAFTA (Free Trade) has not been a good thing for Americans who have to work for a living

*that Prosecution of War Criminals is not optional, our reps are SWORN to protect The Constitution

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in banning Land Mines

*that the USA should join the rest of the civilized World in the International Criminal Court.

The TRUTH never harms.
The truth is, DK is one of the very few reasons I still vote Democratic.
Go ahead and kill the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party and see how much good THAT does,
or have you forgotten 2000 already?

It is Physics.
Vacuums will be filled.

[DCBob]

128. Dennis needs to learn how to compromise...

that how things get done in Washington.

[Tailormyst]

39. You could also say the reverse.

There is a divide that is not going to be healed any time soon.

[niceypoo]

40. The thin skin of apologists

PomPoms for brains.

[NorthCarolina]

41. Simple, because honest populist legislators like Kucinich represent the single biggest threat

to conservatism. They will pull out all the stops to attempt to discredit and marginalize him. Visiting Dem blog sites, and posing as a tried-and-true Democrat who cannot stand DK because after all, "what has he done?", is not only effective in influencing the feeble minds of the thinking impaired that cannot see through their comically obvious efforts, it is also cheap and easy.

[Peacetrain]

42. Kuch is an a@@hat.. how is that!

[brentspeak]

44. You're among the winners in the Unofficial DU Contest for Self-Contradictory Phony "Liberal" Names

Up there with the DLC mouthpieces who post under RFK and Noam Chomsky avatars.

[Sebastian Doyle]

122. Well, not really........

When you look closely at the cartoon, it's clear that the intent is to derail any attempts at peace.

So I'd say it fits perfect. ;)

[bvar22]

129. Nailed It.

THAT train ain't going nowhere!

Thanks for the laugh.
:patriot:

[dionysus]

46. watch out, he'll take off his toupe and slap you with it....

[Phx_Dem]

56. +1000000000000000

[Cha]

105. Oh, but we're hatin' on him and they're "criticizing Pres Obama"

..bc they're so much better at being victims.:nopity:

Poor little dennis..will he be able to stand all the attention?:silly:

[spoony]

123. This is fascinating...you reply to a poster calling him an asshat

And with no sense of irony whatever proceed to complain that people are saying posters are "hatin' on him." Really? Calling someone an asshat is legitimate criticism in your world? So what problem could you possibly have with what's said about Obama, because he's very, very rarely called anything close to that in an unlocked/deleted post. Lol, this thread is turning into a sociology experiment.

[dionysus]

45. need a hanky?

[Lord Helmet]

68. +1

[Moochy]

130. Now i remember

you need to be ignored.

[Uzybone]

47. Kuch is a good guy with good views, but in the real world

where real people need real problems solved, he is useless.

I'd vote for him with pride (now that he is firmly prochoice).

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Arkana]

49. I would say it's the exact opposite.

GD and GDP are brimming with threads bashing the President, but Kucinich got one night of just desserts and suddenly his devotees couldn't take it.

[Cha]

51. Of course that's the way it is but

they have to be the victims.

I don't really give shit if they bash Pres Obama..I consider the source and it's a badge of honor for the President.

[dionysus]

52. they sure can dish it out eh?

[HughMoran]

60. Criticize Obama - it's our duty. Criticize Kuch - apoplectic reaction

The hypocrisy on this issue is stunning. How can people not realize how wildly hypocritical they look? I have to question the mental/emotional stability of anybody who could be so utterly oblivious.

[spoony]

73. How do you feel about people who focus their insults on DK's looks? nt

[HughMoran]

77. Everybody gets hit with silly insults from time-to-time

That sort of name-calling (in the heat of an argument) is not to be taken seriously IMO.

[dionysus]

89. come on, his toupe isn't THAT bad!

:P

[DevonRex]

95. Meh. His pointy little ears always poke out of it. Other than that it's fine.

:P

[DevonRex]

92. I prefer to laugh at Kooch. Or puke over his love for Ron Paul.

There's not enough meat there to actually criticize, though. It's always the same. "No." "No." "No." "No." "No."

Say, he'd be a great addition to the party of No wouldn't he?

[Tailormyst]

103. I would say its both

And what side you agree with taints how you see things. Each side thinks the other is bad while their side is good.

[phleshdef]

53. Because Obama has accomplished more in his 13 month Presidency than Kucinich has in 13 years.

[WI_DEM]

54. Hating=Kucinich and Criticizing=Obama?

[dionysus]

55. you guys shit on obama daily, then cry like little babies when DK gets the same treatment for 1 day.

hypocritical much?

[Moochy]

113. So you admit its coordinated? 1 day?

[Orsino]

57. Can't you see how much shorter Kucinich is? n/t

[thelordofhell]

58. They are all just jealous of his hot wife.

:spank:

[HughMoran]

59. HA! HA! HA! The laugh in one's face hypocrisy here has me in stitches

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Oh. My. God.

You don't even realize what you just said and how ridiculously hypocritical it is, do you?

[dionysus]

63. my guess is NO.

:spray:

[HughMoran]

65. My eyes rolled so far, they're doing somersaults in my head

:evilgrin:

[dionysus]

66. shit, we're USED to them taking a steaming dump on obama, i guess they just don't know how to deal

when the shoe is on the other foot.
:hi:

[HughMoran]

67. My skin is so thick now, I wouldn't even feel a full swing from a machette

What do these people think happens to Obama & others in the Administration on a nearly daily basis?

Are they that fucking oblivious?

As used to hypocrisy and stunning obliviousness many have to the feelings of their fellow DUers, I have to admit that this latest episode really has me verklempt.

[spoony]

74. If having to constantly complain about it is what you call having a thick skin...

[DevonRex]

79. It's hysterical, isn't it? They can dish it out but can't take it.

:rofl:

[spoony]

81. So that's what it's really about, isn't it?

You were a big meanie to my guy so I'm going to be a meanie to yours? Are you guys 10 years old?

[HughMoran]

82. Clearly your feelings are hurt

so,,,?

[spoony]

101. Except they aren't. Do you know why?

Because I don't hang out in the DK forum here whining about every little thing said about the guy and damning other liberals because they criticise some guy I've never met and who wouldn't know me from Adam. It doesn't personally affect me like it does you lot. I get less worked up about blasphemy against a being I literally worship than some of you do about things said about a bloody politician.

I find the hypocrisy remarkable in the name-calling, but that's about it, because I also recognise that hypocrisy is a part of the human condition. But you guys aren't...for whatever reason...getting it. None of you seem to ever switch off. Everything is SO personal to you that you have to take things way beyond politics into judging Kucinich's motives and his looks and...it's getting kind of pathological.

[DevonRex]

83. If we're 10 then you're like 8 or something. Maybe even SIX.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:eyes:

[dionysus]

85. why you little conservadem you!!1!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

88. Is my latte foam showing?

:hi:

[dionysus]

90. wipe that cruise missle dust off your lapel before rahm sees us!!1

;)

[DevonRex]

93. OMG. Not Rahmbo!!!!

I hear he eats wayward congressmen for breakfast!!!! What will he do if he sees my cruise missile dust????

:scared:

[dionysus]

94. he'll demote you to hanging out at Kos!

:D

[DevonRex]

96. Waah!!!!

But, but, but I don't get paid as much to post over there. I won't be able to afford my penthouse in Manhattan. I'll have to cut down to 10 lattes a day!!!!

:cry:

[spoony]

102. Wow, you showed me. Nice one.

How could I possibly wonder about your maturity after that reply...

[DevonRex]

107. In all seriousness, I was making fun of the lameness of you asking if we were 10.

Guess that went right over your head. Whoosh.

[spoony]

117. Making hair piece jokes, etc, you act like a child

So I assume you are one. Really, isn't that better than assuming you're an imbecile?

[dionysus]

87. no, but it shows that you guys can't handle what you dish out freely.

:shrug:

[spoony]

104. What do you mean, "handle" it?

How am I/are we not "handling" this? Is "handling it" not commenting on it at all? And when, seriously, is the last time you've seen people attacking Obama's looks like what's going on here?

[dionysus]

106. it's the hypocrisy of people freaking the fuck out when some meanie says something bad about dennis.

the people freakin the hell out seem plenty fine with dishing it out at their targets.

you really having a hard time understanding this?

[spoony]

116. You want to answer my question or just post the same thing?

When has Obama been subject to the KIND of abuse that is seen as acceptable by Obama's supporters who bad mouth Kucinich? It would only be hypocritical to condemn personal attacks against Democrats based on anything besides their policies if Obama were routinely made fun of in the same way, with the juvenile nonsense being thrown at Kucinich in these threads. In THIS thread.

And you really haven't stated how I/"we" aren't "handling" it. Do Obama supporters "handle" it? Because I haven't seen them do anything different, besides, like I said, running off to a subforum to complain.

[Romulox]

61. Remember the "Thank GAWD it passed chorus", and how they assured us the bailouts would be "fixed"

and new regulations be put into place, only AFTER we passed the bill as the President wanted? :hi:

[DevonRex]

69. Seems to me that if we criticize Kooch it's called hate. Why is that?

Seems to me that iff you can criticize Obama then we can criticize Kooch. :shrug:

[dionysus]

91. see, you've got it all wrong! their criticism is patriotic duty! ours is "hate"

[DevonRex]

98. Well damn. I keep getting it mixed up.

Okay. Criticism of Kooch is hate. Criticism of Obama is duty. Kooch hate. Obama duty. Kooch hate. Obama duty. Kooch hate. Obama duty.

I think I've got it now.

Criticize Kooch is duty. Criticize Obama is hate. Aww man. There I go again!

[Cha]

132. Because the OP thinks he's so clever with his Orwellian

shite.

dennis is an asshole..do I hate him? nah..he's not worth it..nobody is.

[Lorien]

70. You keep hearing that we need to support Democrats whether we agree with

their policies or not? From whom, the handful of DLC propagandists in GD: Presidential fans? They're a loud minority. I think that the majority of DUers are thoughtful enough to put policy before personalities and labels. They'll back DK when he stands up for traditional Dem values (which is most of the time), and they'll back Obama and the rest of the Dems when they do the same (which seems rare anymore). I don't watch television; is the MSM once again attacking Kucinich?

Oh, and K&R.

[polichick]

76. Easier to find a whipping boy than to think. nt

[DevonRex]

80. LOL and THAT is hysterically ironic, too.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[polichick]

84. self-delete

[DevonRex]

86. Right backatcha babe. nt

[polichick]

99. self-delete

[GeorgeGist]

78. Mediocrity is your friend ...

when your afraid of pursuing perfection.

[Phx_Dem]

97. Because Dennis is an asshole with a capital A.

He "claims" the bill is a giveway to insurance companies. So what's his remedy? Do nothing and leave everything as it is because the status quo is, apparently, not good for insurance companies.

Is Dennis really stupid enough to think, a new bill will be crafted if this one fails? I think he actually might be.

[DevonRex]

100. Thread over. nt

[apocalypsehow]

108. Well said. n/t.

[slipslidingaway]

110. Put the state SP amendment back in the bill, why did the administration

want it removed from the bill?

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/letstatesdoit

"...When the first state passes single-payer healthcare, none of the other 49 states will lose anything they've gained through Congress. But the lucky state whose legislature tries to do something more won't see any immediate benefit, because the insurance companies will sue. And there are federal laws that may allow such suits to prevail and deny states the right to provide their residents with healthcare.

Last July the House Committee on Education and Labor voted 25 to 19, with bipartisan support, to pass an amendment proposed by Congressman Dennis Kucinich to waive federal restrictions and allow states to provide healthcare if they choose. Nothing in any other versions of the healthcare bill from other committees conflicted with this language, but it was quietly removed nonetheless. (House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the White House told her to remove it.) And the Senate bill added language forbidding state healthcare solutions through 2017, and not - despite what the President told Kucinich - including the waivers that had been in Kucinich's amendment.


...What we are asking for: Please oppose the health insurance reform bill unless the amendment you voted for and passed in committee last July 17th is reinstated, permitting states to enact healthcare reforms if they choose to..."

[Douglas Carpenter]

111. Dennis Kucinich is a great man and a real progressive

but I do think he could be a little bit more pragmatic - when it actually comes to what is realistically plausible. He could support the current health care reform bill and still fight for single payer like Sen. Bernie Sanders.

Yes it is true, the President is not a progressive in the Bernie Sanders or Dennis Kucinich sense of the term. That is true. I knew that when he first appeared on the national scene to deliver the keynote speech at the Democratic Convention in Boston in 2004. But at the moment, the only alternative political force capable of actually gaining power and running the country are people who are a lot like the crazies on Fox News - people who would make George W. Bush look like a real progressive.

Very few things in life are as they should be. Most relationships are not what relationships should be. Most families are not what families should be. Very few jobs or careers are anything at all like what a job or career should or even could be. In politics, especially when facing the current realities in America today - nothing is as it should be. So we accept what can be and work for what should be. Because the alternative is far, far worse.

[polichick]

112. Kucinich was great on Ed's show tonight - I admire him for not wanting...

...to vote in favor of the insurance companies making even more money. Don't know if I could either when, as he said, there are other ways to do reform.

[bvar22]

127. Dennis was SUPERB of Big Ed's Show.

He backed Ed into a corner several times.

Fix It NOW.
Pass it LATER.
There will be NO "Fixing it Later" after the losses in 2010.

[KittyWampus]

119. funny how the Opening Poster conflates "criticizing" with "hate" Like the trash talk about Obama

that so many DU'ers engage in is just gentle criticism.

[Cha]

124. The op would be more credible if

he didn't try to squirm out of the reality of the issue.

But, it's just the kind of victimhood that the denniscrats like to cozy up to.

[uponit7771]

125. MOST OF THE OBAMA HATE IS M$M OR RIGHT WING TALKING POINTS OR JUST DAMN LIES

[Greyhound]

131. They're panicked, embarrassed, and terrified because they see it all coming apart

so they cast about desperately trying to get somebody to like them.

It's really sad when you think about it. It's the kids that didn't fit in, but were so obnoxious the other misfits avoided them as well. They just never get it and it makes them bitter, that why most become republiks when they get old.

[dionysus]

133. "It's the kids that didn't fit in, but were so obnoxious the other misfits avoided them as well. "

does that refer to you guys, or is it suppsoed to refer to the sizeable majority of dems who support the president?

i think your post is a text-book example of projection...

[Greyhound]

134. ROTFLMAO!

Of all the sad crowd, it is particularly fitting that it is you that jumps in.
:rofl::spray::rofl:

[dionysus]

135. it's funny you described yourselves to a tee, and you still don't get it.

:rofl: indeed.

[O is 44]

137. Why even compare the 2?

Obama is the President he gets blamed for everything and credit for nothing because he is at the top. Kucinich on the other hand only gets noticed when he refuses to vote the way the majority progressive caucus votes. He acts like he is the only one that deserves to have the bill exactly the way he wants it. Sounds very selfish to me. He should take a page out of Bernie Sanders book and realize this bill although not perfect will help many people. Not to mention one of Kucinich's issues with the bill was addressed by Bernie Sanders and was added to the senate bill. This was that individual states have the right to start up a single payer system. (something to that effect) By the way the President pointed that out to him the other day at the WH.

Kucinich is a topic here because the other night he stated he is willing to be the deciding vote in blocking healthcare. What makes him different from Lieberman, Nelson or the Republicans? They all are willing to be the vote that stops healthcare, albeit it is for different reasons but the result is the same.

By the way I love healthy debate this site would be boring if everyone agreed.