Yes people, Dennis Kucinich does have health insurace. What is your point?

[no limit]

I get really sick of seeing stupid talking points on this web site. I know most people here that repeat this bullshit are smarter than that, yet they repeat this crap anyway pretending they don't know any better.

Yes, Dennis Kucinich does have health insurance. So what? By not supporting this crappy bill it's not a matter of him saying that the american people don't deserve the same healthcare that he has. What he is saying is he knows that most uninsured americans don't have insurance because they can't afford it. Yet what these bills do is force these same people to buy something that they can't afford. You think if these people could afford insurance they would be uninsured?

Wether you think Kucinich is right or wrong please be a little more honest in your approach, this has nothing to do with Kucinich wanting to deny people health insurance. It has to do with making sure that if we force someone to buy insurance that they can actually afford it.

[ProSense]

1. "he is saying...uninsured americans don't have insurance because they can't afford it. " So

why is he voting against the bill?

[no limit]

3. I'm sorry if its so hard for you to comprehand why $400-500 a month is a lot of money

must be nice if you have $400-500 each month just sitting around.

[ProSense]

11. "$400-500 a month"?

What, as opposed to the more than $1,000 people are currently paying? Also, this chart covers ths individual market. Additionally, there are all types of hardship exemptions, caps, vouchers and other measures to each the burden on individuals and families.

What's Kucinich opposed to, lowering costs for Americans?

[no limit]

14. I am going off the chart. Under $40K you will be paying close to $200 a month

under $60k close to 400 - 500 bucks a month. I find it hard to believe that so many people here somehow think this is pocket change.

In my case I will now be forced to pay around $200 a month (if that chart is right) for shitty private insurance coverage. Unfortgunately I live pay check to paycheck, and I'm sorry to all of you I can't afford to pull $200 out of my ass.

[ProSense]

35. "In my case I will now be forced to pay around $200 a month "

The chart is for individual market. What are you paying now?

[no limit]

I dont pay anything now because I cant afford it.

[ProSense]

48. So you oppose health care reform because you're uninsured

and want to remain that way? There are exemptions from the mandate based on hardship.

What I'm not understanding is why you would oppose a bill that brings the current cost of insurance down nearly 80 percent in your category?

[no limit]

50. Everything I have seen I will be paying around $200 a month, thats money I dont have

what kind of subsidies are provided for someone making around $40K a year? What is the max amount I will pay?

[brentspeak]

54. Congratulations on Densest Post of the Day

A child could understand that the previous poster made it abundantly clear the $200/month he would need to fork-up for a completely useless private insurance policy simply isn't there. You can multiply his situation by untold millions of other Americans. Something tells me you have never had to worry a single day in your life about literally being $5 short at the end of the month to make the rent, avoid having one's heating or electricity shut-off, or to avoid coming up short on a credit card/loan payment, etc. -- let alone not having enough to feed a family or even oneself.

[ProSense]

55. Was this post supposed to make sense? n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

36. How selfish of you to balk at having to come up with $200 you don't have

To pay for shitty private insurance that still makes you pay out of pocket before you can use it.

Don't you know there are 31 MILLION UNINSURED AMERICANS WHO WILL BE HELPED BY THIS BILL!!!1!!1

(half of them will simply be put on Medicaid, which could have been done without forcing you to buy shitty private insurance but never mind that)

[prolesunited]

57. Lucky me then

I'm paying nothing because I have so many pre-existing conditions I can't buy insurance. And under COBRA, I was paying $1,070 a month so $200 sounds good to me.

[no limit]

61. So force me to come up with money I don't have to help you

great plan, for you.

Republicans all say they support eliminating pre-exisiting conditions, right? They don't need to pass this huge bill to do that. You get helped, I don't get punished. Sounds like a win/win to me.

[prolesunited]

67. So you're never going to need insurance

or health care? And no one around you would benefit?

"So force me to come up with money I don't have to help you"
You sound as selfish as a libertarian. I guess I'll just die, and yes, my asthma, certainly can kill me, so I won't be a burden to you. Feel better now?

I pay taxes for schools and I don't have kids. They just raised my property taxes to pay for tons of local services I don't use. That's just the price we pay for living in society. Get over it.

[no limit]

68. I'm selfish because I dont have $200 a month sitting around?

Shit, you make is sound like I have a choice for living paycheck to paycheck. If I could poop out $200 I would.

Like I said, sorry about your pre-exisiting conditions. but they don't need this shitty bill to stop pre-exisiting conditions.

[NJmaverick]

2. Is that how you defend the undefendable?

call it "bullshit" and complain that you don't like be reminded of it? Dennis is being way to cavalier with people's lives and the fact that he has what they don't only makes it worse.

[no limit]

4. It is bullshit. The fact he has insurance doesn't mean anything, its dishonest on your part

what he understands is that most of the uninsured are not made of money, and can't afford $500 a month for insurance.

[dave29]

9. some can, though. And Dennis is flipping them off.

Some folks have pre-existing conditions, and would love nothing more than to be able to purchase insurance.

And that's without even getting into subsidies, for those who cannot afford, community health centers, etc.

[no limit]

10. While others can't. And Obama is giving a big middle finger to them

What makes it ok for Obama to piss all over people that can't afford 400-500 bucks for insurance?

[dave29]

16. He's not pissing on anyone.

I brought up subsidies, there's also high risk pools, etc. No it won't insure everyone. I am sorry for that.

[no limit]

19. I am fully aware of subsidies. The figures I am using include subsidies

I am going based off the chart someone posted above that supports this plan, you are more than welcome to post other figures, I'll be happy to look at them.

At this point someone like me making around 40K a year, that lives paycheck to paycheck, will be forced to caugh up $200 that we don't have. And why? because the democrats are spineless cowards. And you want to punish people like me for that? I'm sorry, but sorry doesn't mean anything to me.

[dave29]

24. I don't want to punish you. I make close to the same.

We have crappy health insurance and both my wife and I ration it for when we only desperately need it. We cut out other things in order to pay for this. Many other things. And our premiums are skyrocketing year to year. We're ALL hurting. Either of us could be dropped at any moment due to pre-existing conditions.

Some people will be helped. It is truly better than nothing. If you do not want to pay, or you can't pay, there's not much more to say about that... other than

Why do you want to punish ME?

[no limit]

29. That's the point, why should one person be punished while another one isn't

this is a shitty bill that although it will help many people it will also hurt many people. And I blame the democrats for that. It is not my fault they are corporate whores, yet I will be the one punished for it.

[dave29]

37. you are not half the victim you make yourself out to be

Would you rather pay $200 or $50,000 for a medical procedure you cannot afford but desperately need?

[no limit]

39. You keep suggesting that this is a choice I have. Do you understand $200 doesnt grow on trees?

I would love to be covered. the point again is I can't afford coverage, that's why I don't have it.

[dave29]

45. yes, I get it.

My guess would be the "penalty" you would face would cost you far less than $200. So, that is that. And I don't think you will be sitting in jail for failure to pay your $200 slice of the pie.

There are multitudes of people who can scrounge up $200 though that would help make things a lot better for everyone else. This is not about money growing on trees, it is about getting more people insured, and increasing the quality of our healthcare system as best we can at this point in time.

[no limit]

47. Yes, the fee will be a lot less than the $200. But even that isn't a tiny amount

it's something I will have to live with and make changes accordingly but again it goes back to punishing me for something I have no choice over.

And they could have fought for people like me, they decided not to. Now that someone like Kucinich actually stands up for people like me he gets slaughtered by people that don't give a shit because they make plenty.

[dave29]

58. saying no one fought for people like you

is a spit in the eye of people like me.

[no limit]

62. Thank you for fighting, but I dont understand why now you want to throw all that effort out

You fought to help people like me now you're gonna tell us "well I tried, and it didnt work out, so we're gonna have to punish you".

[Cronus Protagonist]

12. As ever, Dennis is right.

He's a true progressive.

[Cha]

26. He's a true regressive.

[spoony]

60. Lol, you lot have gone so far overboard

with all this desperate guilt-tripping. You want to know who should feel guilty? All the people along the way who ruined a chance at ACTUAL HCR. You're trying to feed people a hunk of shit and whining that some of us notice it smells.

[zulchzulu]

5. If the Keebler Elf votes against health care reform (like he has before), he has blood on his hands

Sure, suckers will still pad his wallet with money, but the jackass needs either vote for reform or expect his name to go down in history as one who actually sided with the insurance industry with voting against health care reform.

He needs to resign and sell fake crystals at some mall in Cleveland.

[no limit]

7. Let me guess, you have no problem affording insurance, do you?

[zulchzulu]

17. I have coverage and the rates went up 15% recently

Yeah. So let's just PISS on those who can't get coverage due to pre-existing conditions because Utopian Purist Asshats like Kucinich can't get his fucking pony.

Blood on his hands... like he gives a shit anyway.

[no limit]

21. I apologize to you I can't be forced to shell out $200 a month I dont have

I'm such a fucking asshat for that fact, you're right, my apologies. Like always people like me will just have to bend over and accept it while people like you that have plenty of cash to spare can sit there on your high horses telling us how great this legislation is for all of us.

[zulchzulu]

25. I have a job

Get one.

[no limit]

28. Thanks dick, I do have a job, a job that doesnt provide insurance

like I said, my apologies for being such an asshat.

[zulchzulu]

I hope you get coverage soon

My actual apologies for being a tad nasty on the subject...

But I have had enough of people like Kucinich who are willing to stop progress (albeit imperfect like past legislation like Medicare, Civil Rights, Environment, Education...) in order to somehow think that voting against reform does not basically allow millions to not be able to get coverage.

He's a charlatan in the highest order. A shitty candidate and a failed legislator. His vote against health care (insurance) reform actually hurts you.

[no limit]

38. No, the point is his no vote doesn't hurt me. This bill passing hurts me

I have enough trouble getting by. And although I haven't seen a doctor in years atleast I have just enough money to live on. That's a choice I made, I decided to afford my rent payment, my car payment, my internet bill, my electricity bill, and all the other things I live with but as a result I won't have insurance. At my age that's a risk I DECIDED I have to make. Now the government is telling me that's not how it will work, that I will shell out this cash even if I don't have it (or they'll fine me again forcing me to caugh up money I dont have). And if it means losing my car or other things important to me then so be it.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[phleshdef]

30. If you truly don't have the money to afford it, this bill provides subsidies to help you pay for it.

Just establishing the precedent that government will aid everyone in paying for coverage is enough of a reason to support it. Even if the aid isn't as high as it should be to start off with, that can be improved upon.

[no limit]

33. My income bracket doesn't provide me with very many subsidies

Yet I cant afford to suddenly shell out $200 a month. Sucks to be me, huh?

[dave29]

41. Until you need a $50,000 medical procedure, sure.

On that day though, it certainly does not suck to be you.

[no limit]

43. I'll live with the bankruptcy. That's something I have to live with, its not a choice I have, sorry

[phleshdef]

42. Somehow I doubt you are telling the truth. But whatever.

[no limit]

44. Right, go talk to other people in the middle class making between $30k - $40k a year

such an income seems like a foreign concept to you. Yet millions of people get by on that kind of money, that's why many of those millions don't have insurance.

[kjackson227]

53. Just a question... Are you employed by a small company? If so...

then you and/or your employer would have the option of buying insurance from the "exchange" which would be significantly cheaper, or depending on the size of the company your employer would have to help pay your insurance or risk a fine. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, please.

[no limit]

64. Yes, I do. And I'm all ears. If someone can tell me how much I will have to pay I'm all ears.

From what I've seen the figure for my income bracket will be around $200 a month.

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. It's NOT health care reform, it's health INSURANCE reform

But you know that. I do wish you would stop posting this propaganda on DU.

[zulchzulu]

20. So let me see... you want to get rid of the insurance industry?

:rofl:

Such myopic sophistry should be relegated only to little parlors off the highway selling fake crystals to dope fiends.

[Cronus Protagonist]

22. Yes, and despite the large words, your comment is still specious.

Myopic sophistry? Puhlease. Says a lot about you and nothing about me.

[zulchzulu]

27. So... do you want to get rid of the insurance industry this year or what?

I need a good laugh.

[Cronus Protagonist]

56. Last year would be better

And in any case, they can still sell insurance, just not health insurance.

[brentspeak]

69. The "Keebler Elf"? You sure you didn't expect this to be Free Republic?

[BeyondGeography]

6. Of course it's a relevant point

He sails on perfectly content and healthy while millions are left to the emergency room. In the name of what?

Fuck him.

[no limit]

8. Let me guess, you have no problem affording insurance, do you?

[still_one]

13. Guess what, Obama and others don't have to worry about pre-existing condition discrimination

until after 2012

but a lot of people do whether this bill passes or not, unless they change it

[dave29]

18. how long do they have to wait under Dennis's imminently passable plan?

?

[zulchzulu]

23. You get crickets when you ask what legislation Kucinich was able to get passed

The guy is FAIL. Mr. 2% in presidential races.

He can be on the wrong side if he wants. I've lost respect for him years ago. Anyone who thinks he can legislate his way out of a paper bag is a fool.

He's had government-run health care since the 1970s. It's not good enough for average Americans though...

:crazy:

[Hissyspit]

59. The Senate bill is going to get me government-run health care?

How exactly is it going to do that?

[still_one]

66. Of course my response was to the OPs point that Kucinich has health care

so the implication is that he doesn't need to worry if HCR happens

My response was that they have moved a lot of things out past 2012, and those things may or may not ever happen either

Why not an up or down vote on Medicare for all

It is an existing program, perfect senario for reconciliation?

Of course if they did that, we would know exactly where they really stood on the issue, and we can't have that type of clarity

[phleshdef]

32. Exactly. Kucinich will likely be dead (as will many he helped to keep uninsured) before his vision..

...can ever come to reality.

[Jennicut]

49. I will be dead before it happens.

I choose to live in reality, not DK's world of roses and birds singing.

[still_one]

65. Actually all they need to do is an up or down vote for medicare for all

What are they afraid of?

[Cha]

31. Yeah, he has it and he's a selfish little prick for

denying it to those who need it the most.

[no limit]

34. Right and people that think everyone in this country can suddently shell out money they dont have

isn't a prick, no not at all.

Like I said above, it's nice to have people that make a lot of money telling those that don't how wonderful it will be for us to shell out money we don't have.

[Phx_Dem]

46. If Dennis is right, so is Stupak.

If it's okay for one person to kill a bill because it doesn't suit them, then it's okay for any one person to do so regardless of how YOU like them.

I personally think they both huge assholes.

[Deep13]

51. He voted against the more liberal House bill. nt

[Hello_Kitty]

52. And now he's going to vote against a less liberal Senate bill.

This particular talking point is stupid. The House bill that Kucinich voted against had the votes to pass. They made the Senate bill into something that he cannot support.

[Deep13]

63. The OP asked what the point was and that was it. nt

[Oregone]

70. Circumstantial Ad Hominem