I'll say it. I wish Dennis Kucinich got something from Obama for his "yes" vote.

[riderinthestorm]

"Kucinich said Obama had offered him nothing concrete in exchange for his vote. “There was no Nebraska or Louisiana type deal,” he said."

It didn't have to be on the order of a private deal for his state, but how about a promise to allow him to introduce a public option fix later, with Obama's help?

It seems wierd that Kucinich got NOTHING for his vote. I'll even go further, he's a progressive and got nothing in exchange for his vote. While Nelson and Landrieu got big deals from the Obama Admin for their past support, and they are Blue Dogs/DLC all the way.

Maybe there is a hidden deal, a bargaining chip that Kucinich now has up his sleeve from the Obama Admin that we don't know about - something to use in the future that he doesn't want to expose right now. I'll give him and the Obama Admin the benefit of the doubt for now. But it looks bad for this Admin that they won't make a deal with one of the last true progressives left in Congress, but were willing to deal with the DLC/Blue Dogs.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Kucinich gets to be on the right side of the issue.

That should be good enough for him and his real supporters.

[Ken Burch]

31. You aren't entitled to take that tone. This bill is just a victory in name.

Dennis was on the right side of the issue. He's taken this step for the greater political good.

You and the rest of the right wing of the party are not the "grown-ups". It's the fault of your wing that everything in the bill that mattered is gone.

But we're doing it your way and settling(this year)for symbolic victory.

Dennis has principles. You don't.

[katmondoo]

2. Kucinich did the right thing

Accepting some sort of bribe or deal would lesson his vote and his integrity

[denimgirly]

3. Agreed...This was DKs best chance to get something -- possibly ever.

Knowing the president was clearly desparate for my vote i would have at least demanded a public option backing at a specific time in the future.....i prefer single payer but i wouldnt be mean and do that...but to not want anything at all is just plane dumb....It is clear Obama will give anything and so this was DKs best chance to make a difference in the bill....dont have to be unreasonable just slip in a request to help the bill...leaving it as is in exchange for nothing is poor judgment.

[dionysus]

4. you wish he was bribed?

[riderinthestorm]

7. Bribed?? LOL! This is Congress. Deal making is how business gets done. nt

[denimgirly]

8. +1

[dionysus]

12. you guys sell out your "principles" at the drop of a hat...for ur BFF... NOW deal making is good?

talk about worshipping man, you guys take the cake!

:rofl:

[Jennicut]

15. Deals when they benefit your point of view are never deals.

They are "agreements". LOL.

[riderinthestorm]

16. This isn't about principles, it's about the deal.

I'm not a Kucinich fangirl. Never have been, and you can walk through all my prior posts to check it out.

But I believe Kucinich was the one who truly had the right side of this issue. And I think he lay down for Obama on this. I don't like it. I'd like to think he fought harder, and extracted some future promises from this Admin in return. That's just business in Congress.

[phleshdef]

13. Oh my, you are so principled and transparent now aren't you?

[riderinthestorm]

18. DK isn't allowed to operate just like everyone else in Congress?

Moving legislation is all about the deal making. That's not principled, transparent or even shitty. It just is what it is.

As I stated above, I've never been a DK fangirl but I think he was on the right side of this. I've never expected nor demanded DK to be above the fray. In fact, it makes no sense that NOW he's pulled himself out of the fray, at the precise moment he wielded some serious leverage over this Admin.

[phleshdef]

19. LOL. Serious leverage? Ok, I'm done with taking you even remotely serious.

[riderinthestorm]

21. Yes, because we know Obama doesn't really need to pass this bill....

Its just no big deal to Obama that he gets a progressive on board, or that he gets closer to the magic passing number.... :sarcasm:

[Orsino]

33. Fuck, yeah.

All the right-wing Dems sure as hell were pandered to. I wish there were some largesse left over for us.

[msongs]

5. wonder if he gets the same deal Obama gave big Pharma lol nt

[elocs]

6. Well, that would make him like most everyone else, wouldn't it?

I'm not a big DK fan, but for his sake and for those who hero-worship him I hope he did the right thing for the right reason.

[riderinthestorm]

11. "Right reason" being that he got nothing in return for his vote?

Congresspeople make deals. It's how they do things. That's not being shitty, it's just business there. The "right reason" being that he votes for Obama's HCR in an unprecedented demonstration of submission. I don't get why suddenly its Kucinich that has to be the one who gets nothing out of this... Or why anyone who supported him has to agree to that in order to also be "doing the right thing".

[elocs]

22. Well, I guess then that would make Kucinich just like everyone else, doesn't it?

It sucks when your god ultimately turns out to have feet of clay after "insisting" for so long he would not vote for the bill.

So when does "insist" mean "to be firm in a demand or course; refuse to yield" and when does it mean "until I get a good enough offer"?

[martymar64]

30. What sucks is when your Presidential candidate campaigned on NO MANDATES

and then turns around as president and supports mandates. The candidate campaigned on transparency and a strong public option and he went back on his word regarding those. He lied to us and sold us all down the river for campaign contributions from Big Insurance and Big Pharma.

I can't wait to what what he sells us out on with "financial reform".

[denimgirly]

14. Your statement is like a cheesy movie line

You know every bad action movie where the hero says "I cant kill you cuz that will make me as bad as you" to the bad guy only to turn around and have the bad guy pick up the gun (or knife) and attempt to kill the hero? That is what your statement sounded like.

Translation: Not everything is fantasy-based...some times you need to do what you gotta do to get things done. Imagine women rights or civil rights if there were no arm-twisting involved behind the scenes cuz "that would make him like most everyone else".

Just my 2

[elocs]

20. Well, I'm from Wisconsin and cheese is a good thing here. n/t

[Berry Cool]

9. Free beer for everyone in Cleveland today!!!!!

Even those of us outside his district!!!!!

...um, actually, that could be a REALLY bad idea. As it is. I'm staying off the Rapid today. Those who are planning to ride, take my advice, don't wear your good shoes.

[Teaser]

10. here's the deal with negotiating with Blue Dogs

Blue Dogs don't care about health care reform. They don't particularly want it. Progressives do.

Who has the stronger hand, then in negotiations? The person who can walk away, or the one who can't?

[NYC Liberal]

17. Or maybe...he was simply convinced that voting for the bill was the right thing to do!

“I left it with a real sense of compassion for our president and what he’s going through,” he said. “We have to be compassionate towards those who are called upon to make decisions for this nation. It’s not an easy burden that he’s taken up.

Kucinich said Obama didn’t make any promises to take up the public option later.

“What he committed to was to continue to work with me on the broad concerns that I have,” he said. “He didn’t make any specific commitment.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=226881&mesg_id=226881

[OllieLotte]

23. Ha. Well I knew that he flipped when I heard that he was ...

...taking a ride on Air Force One. You can read anything that you want into it. But I knew that he changed his mind at that point.

[Hippo_Tron]

24. Of course he got something, being a progressive doesn't negate bargaining

Kucinich actually did everything that one does in order to gain bargaining leverage. He made himself appear to be somebody who was so ideologically committed to his position that there was little chance he would see the light and thus they would have to offer him something substantive in order to get his vote. Kucinich got something on this one and he played the White House in order to get it. As somebody who usually has little respect for Kucinich's political skills, I have to give him props for this.

[riderinthestorm]

25. I really hope you're right.

I agree too that being a progressive doesn't negate bargaining, much as some posters above want to make that out to be some kind of unprincipled thing to do.

It's interesting that neither the Kucinich side nor the Obama Admin side want to admit to whatever it is they've agreed to. While on the other hand, Nelson, Landrieu and the Admin all trumpeted their deal.

Furthermore, I'd like to hope it's a public option fix in the future, backed by Obama. Maybe that's why it's a big secret - can't disclose it before the vote (or non-vote, however Pelosi actually gets the bill done).

A girl can dream....

[RaleighNCDUer]

26. No, he's too principled to sell his vote like that.

What he got was a Democratic party that just 'might' retain power in 2012, and 'might' keep from losing too much in 2010.

With the bill not passing the repubs would have run on 'Obama is getting NOTHING done'. Voting for the bill takes that away from them. The very real problems with the bill won't be apparent for a couple years, but probably not in time for the repubs to run on the dems having passed the bill and being blamed for it, which may save the election for '12, if it looks like the wars are really winding down by then.

Dennis was supporting the party, and its somewhat more progressive agenda, not the bill.

[Hippo_Tron]

32. It's only unprincipled if you think process matters more than outcome

Lets say that he traded his vote for a promise that the White House will later push for a strong public option or that he will get backing on a state single-payer bill. What is unprincipled about that? Also, it is entirely possible to bargain with your vote when you were going to vote that way anyway by simply making the people who need your vote think that they won't get it. Yes maybe in some utopia, congresspeople cast every vote based on their convictions and not based on some deal they made. But in reality that's not how it works. LBJ had to make a ton of deals to get the Civil Rights Act passed and I can't imagine anybody would argue that he should've been "principled" and not made any deals. While the ends don't always justify the means, sometimes they absolutely do.

[Yeahyeah]

27. You know that leprechaun is going to get some kind of pot of gold for his vote.

The little people don't play that something for nothing stuff.

Probably would have to put his lucky charms in a vice to get him to tell what he gets,though.

[karynnj]

28. Obama pushed to eliminate the Nelson and other deals - it would now

be inconsistent to give him anything. (Not to mention, it was not Obama who created Nelson's deal. What he will get is goodwill and if he needs help in November, he will likely get it.

The fact is that there are many people who do things that help Obama, because it helps the country, who don't get anything obvious in return. He might get a coveted WH invitation to a dinner on when someone Kucinich has ties to is honored. Obama should NOT give other favors.

[martymar64]

29. Rahm's head on a platter would've been nice

He really needs to go, he's a cancer on our government.