:bounce:
Transcript: Rep. Clyburn on Charlie Rose
Charlie Rose:
Democrats on Capitol Hill today received a boost in their efforts to overhaul the nation's healthcare system. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that the Democrats' plan would cut the deficit by over $1 trillion over the next two decades. The estimate clears the House of Representatives to vote on the bill as soon as Sunday. President Obama postponed his trip to the Pacific again, to make a final push for the bill. Joining me now from Washington is the man in charge of finding the 216 votes needed to pass the bill in the House; he is Congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina, the Democratic Whip, I'm pleased to have him back on this program. Welcome.
James Clyburn:
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Charlie Rose:
Did you say that --
James Clyburn:
Good to be back.
Charlie Rose:
I've been good, thank you sir. This has been a busy -- has this been as busy a week as you've ever had in the Congress?
James Clyburn:
I think so, without a doubt. The days are long and they're quite full of activity. It's been a very enjoyable experience though. I'm enjoying it.
Charlie Rose:
Now did you say that you were absolutely giddy about the CBO report?
James Clyburn:
Well you know, I think I did use that word. I'm very excited I guess would be the better word, because when you're waiting with bated breath, trying to determine exactly what you will need to do to try to get to 216 on a bill like this, and all of a sudden you get this number. $130 billion in the first 10 years, $1.2 trillion over the next 10 years: that is music to my ears. It's exactly what we had hoped for, but I tell you, very few of us thought it would be this good.
Charlie Rose:
So what do you think happened?
James Clyburn:
Well, I think what happened is that we did a lot of deliberating. I think that the president, when he sat down with the House and Senate leadership and he put in his fixtures, he always had in his mind there must be cost containment. We have got to contribute to deficit reduction. And on top of all that is the fact that we started out covering 31 million additional people. And CBO comes back and said you do it this way, you will cover 32 million additional people, and you will make Medicare solvent for the next nine years. That is absolutely great news. You can't argue with that at all.
Charlie Rose:
Well, you know what the Republicans are saying? I'm reading from the committee on the budget of Republican caucus. They're saying that you want to use Medicare as a piggy bank. Over a half a trillion in Medicare cuts to create a new entitlement.
James Clyburn:
What we're trying to do is make Medicare solvent for our seniors going forward. And we do that by making tremendous adjustments in all of these provider pays, reimbursements for providers. We have seen all of the shows. I think you've done them, about the fraud in the system. We have seen a lot of TV, magazines that are making people very, very upset with what's in this system. We are putting in place processes by which we will squeeze all of that fraud and abuse out of the system. We won't be taking one dime out of the benefits of Medicare, only out of the provider side.
Charlie Rose:
Does this CBO report close the deal for you to get to 216?
James Clyburn:
I think so. I really am -- believe that the people who were very leery about what this would do to the country's debt and deficit are very pleased with this. It makes it easier, as well as on the progressive side. They wanted more people covered. And we will be almost doubling the size of community health centers. And I'll say something else, Charlie, I think that people need to know that all they hear about this bill, we are paying for it, and it won't take effect until four years from now, there are a lot of things that will go into effect immediately upon the signing of this bill by the president. We will immediately be able to get rid of discriminating against children who are born with diabetes and other kind of pre-existing conditions. That will be immediate. We will immediately fund almost a doubling of community health centers. We will create this high-risk pool. That happens immediately, where people go into when they are a lot like not having automobile insurance so you can be in there and get services. So there are a lot of things -- I think if my memory serves, there are about 13 reforms that take place immediately upon signing by the president.
Charlie Rose:
You have said and compared this to the civil rights bill and in the context that it wasn't done in one fell swoop, that civil rights came to America legislatively over a period of time.
James Clyburn:
Sure.
Charlie Rose:
So how are you going to do that in healthcare?
James Clyburn:
Well, this way: If we are immediately covering the children who have pre-existing conditions, in four years, we will be covering their parents; all adults will get covered if they have pre-existing conditions. Immediately, we will get rid of recisions. That means you cannot get rid of people because they get a catastrophic illness. That happens in six months. And then, you know, you looked at what we did in civil rights. In 1964 when the Civil Rights Act was passed, it did not have voting in it.
Charlie Rose:
Right.
James Clyburn:
It only outlawed discrimination in the private sector of employment. It was a year later before we got voting. And it was three years after that before we got housing. And so I believe that what we are doing here is laying a solid foundation which over time will have complete universal access to quality healthcare by all Americans.
Charlie Rose:
The momentum has swung, you think, in understanding this healthcare reform?
James Clyburn:
I think a lot of that did take place. People began to cut through all the rhetoric, began to look at exactly what we were doing and began to understand it. Remember, when the house passed its bill, we passed that bill last year. We passed a bill that had 63 percent approval by the people in this country. It was not until the Senate started putting in all of these special deals, and people got very upset at that Nebraska Amendment and the few other things that they didn't like. And that's when public support began to tumble for this bill. What we will be doing with this legislation is getting rid of all those special deals, fixing that. And then we are bringing in some of the other reforms that the president wanted to see us do to contain costs. And that's why you see this great number coming from the congressional budget office that everybody is so happy about.
Charlie Rose:
What's the toughest argument you have to overcome within your own caucus?
James Clyburn:
The toughest one right now is getting all of our anti-abortion people comfortable with the Senate language. And we're making a lot of headway with that because Congressman Kildee from Michigan and Congressman Oberstar from Minnesota, two of the very pro-life Democrats in our caucus say to us that they have read this. They are now very comfortable that what the Senate language does is maintain the Hyde Amendment that will not allow for abortions being paid for by federal funds. They are comfortable that that's the case.
Charlie Rose:
Did that support of the nun group make a difference?
James Clyburn:
It made a big difference. They have supported it, a lot of legal authorities have now weighed in and said that we accomplished that as well. And a lot of other Catholic hospitals have weighed in, in support of this bill. And so the -- I think the vast majority of Catholics in the country do in fact support these sort of amendments or the whole bill, and feel comfortable with the Senate treatment of abortion.
Charlie Rose:
You have said, I think over the weekend, you thought that Bart Stupak would, in the end, vote for the bill.
James Clyburn:
Well, I thought he might get comfortable with the language and could in fact vote for the bill. I'm not sure that he will. Bart Stupack is one of my best friend up here. We spend a lot of time together on -- on the floor and off. And I know how strongly he feels about this issue. I really would love to see him get to a place where he can support this. But I would understand it if he did not.
Charlie Rose:
And -- but for those who think like he does, what do you have to say to get him there?
James Clyburn:
Well, we continue to work with them. We continue to ask them to listen to the nuns, listen to the hospital -- Catholic hospital administrators, and listen to the legal authorities on this. And we just keep working it. And who knows? There may be a tweak or two that can take place in the management of the amendment that they will be comfortable voting for it. So there's still time to get them comfortable.
Charlie Rose:
Okay. Last question: tell me what's going to happen now. The vote will take place when?
James Clyburn:
The vote, I think, will take place sometime after 2:00 on Sunday. Remember, we promised the American people that we would not ask any member of the House to vote for this until there is 72 hours of posting.
Charlie Rose:
Right.
James Clyburn:
We post the bill a little bit after 2:00 today, and so we won't be voting for it until a little bit after 2:00 on Sunday.
Charlie Rose:
The first vote will be where? In other words, what --
James Clyburn:
The first vote --
Charlie Rose:
Go ahead.
James Clyburn:
It will be in the House.
Charlie Rose:
In the House.
James Clyburn:
The House will the first, yes.
Charlie Rose:
And then what happens?
James Clyburn:
It then -- what we will be doing in the House, we will be checking the Senate bill and the fixers, those two bills, and laying them together. And we will vote on them at one time. And then those things will leave the House with the fixers going to the Senate and the Senate bill going to the president. And then we will see what happens in the Senate with the so-called fixers.
Charlie Rose:
All right. Congressman Clyburn, it's always great to have you on this show. Thank you very much. And we will talk to you again soon.
James Clyburn:
Well, thank you so much for having me.
Charlie Rose:
Jim Clyburn from South Carolina. Back in a moment.
http://thepage.time.com/2010/03/18/clyburn-convinced/?xid=rss-page
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