I was talking to someone about mandates and it was no convincing them

[LeftyAndProud60]

They were bringing up great points. The reason they don't have insurance is because they can't afford it. And they don't want to be in a position to pay hundreds of dollars a month when they're struggling now. They just don't see how they'll have the money to pay and they know that they would be considered to make too much money to be helped by the government.



The best thing about this bill is that those Mandates take yrs to kick in, because I know congress will be pressured to get rid of them.

[sandnsea]

1. Who said they'll pay hundreds of dollars a month

Why did you intentionally refuse to tell them they would get a subsidy?

[LeftyAndProud60]

4. I don't know what they'll get. He was just convinced that he would make too much to get any help and

be forced to pick a plan from some health insurer. I don't know if he's right or wrong, but I can understand why someone wouldn't want to be forced to get Health insurance.

[sandnsea]

6. Yeah, having health care would be a terrible thing

You do know there are an equal number of people who don't want to be forced to get a government health plan.

So what are we supposed to do? Nothing??

[housewolf]

10. For years I resented being forced to wear a seat belt and buy auto insurance

So I can well understand folks' feelings about the health insurance mandates. I also understand the argument that to keep sick people covered, the pool needs to include everyone. I expect we're going to fight this out for some number of years.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

11. And forget to mention the hardship exemptions.

The mandate IMO is about is as onerous as the exchange is competition building. I'd say the balance is about right. I'd rather have a solid PO and strong mandate but this is an acceptable compromise.

[DrToast]

2. Why do I get the feeling this conversation took place between two sock puppets in your bedroom?

[brewens]

3. I think you got him there. I had that coversation with my girlfriend.

I have told her that there is no way they can charge something like $250 a month for this mandated coverage to people that don't make much. That is roughly what it would cost me to put her on my insurance. There is no way they will get that much out of people working at or around minimum wage.
Anyone low income would have to be subsidised. They may not like paying their contribution but I think it will work out. I was guessing $50 a month would be close.

[LiberalFighter]

13. Anyone working at minimum wage would most likely work at a small business

that employs 30 or fewer employees. They would be exempt.

[LeftyAndProud60]

5. whatever. Everyone will be able to afford this I'm sure. Nobody will be unhappy about this.

:sarcasm:


Even Howard Dean said they needed to be stripped out of the bill.

[denimgirly]

7. Mandates will be one of the Repub talking points this Nov.

[doc03]

8. Try going out and buying car insurance after you wrecked

your car.

[grantcart]

9. adverse selection

basic rule of economics = eliminate the ability of the ins companies to discriminate and the insurance system will fail without mandates. All single payer system have mandates.

For the 101st time at DU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_selection

The term adverse selection was originally used in insurance. It describes a situation where an individual's demand for insurance (either the propensity to buy insurance, or the quantity purchased, or both) is positively correlated with the individual's risk of loss (e.g. higher risks buy more insurance), and the insurer is unable to allow for this correlation in the price of insurance<1>. This may be because of private information known only to the individual (information asymmetry), or because of regulations or social norms which prevent the insurer from using certain categories of known information to set prices (e.g. the insurer may be prohibited from using information such as gender or ethnic origin or genetic test results). The latter scenario is sometimes referred to as 'regulatory adverse selection'.<2>

The potentially 'adverse' nature of this phenomenon can be illustrated by the link between smoking status and mortality. Non-smokers, on average, are more likely to live longer, while smokers, on average, are more likely to die younger. If insurers do not vary prices for life insurance according to smoking status, life insurance will be a better buy for smokers than for non-smokers. So smokers may be more likely to buy insurance, or may tend to buy larger amounts, than non-smokers. The average mortality of the combined policyholder group will be higher than the average mortality of the general population. From the insurer's viewpoint, the higher mortality of the group which 'selects' to buy insurance is 'adverse'. The insurer raises the price of insurance accordingly. As a consequence, non-smokers may be less likely to buy insurance (or may buy smaller amounts) than if they could buy at a lower price to reflect their lower risk. The reduction in insurance purchase by non-smokers is also 'adverse' from the insurer's viewpoint, and perhaps also from a public policy viewpoint.

Furthermore, if there is a range of increasing risk categories in the population, the increase in the insurance price due to adverse selection may lead the lowest remaining risks to cancel or not renew their insurance. This leads to a further increase in price, and hence the lowest remaining risks cancel their insurance, leading to a further increase in price, and so on. Eventually this 'adverse selection spiral' might in theory lead to the collapse of the insurance market

[HughMoran]

12. That's OK, my $36,000/year family plan will pay for their emergency room visit

:eyes:

How ignorant Americans are.

Want to pay my portion of that number above?

I didn't think so.

[golfguru]

14. No, they can afford HC cuz all of us good hearted people will help pay

for the health insurance they can't afford. Hey we are Americans!
If we can help victims of tsunami in Asia and of earthquakes in Haiti,
we surely won't mind picking up the tab for the poor here in our own
country.

[WeekendWarrior]

15. You don't have to buy insurance if you can't afford it

That's covered in the bill. Much ado about nothing.