What do H. Dean, M, Moore, D. Kucinich, B. Sanders, A. Weiner, and A. Grayson have in common?

[scheming daemons]

They're all in favor of passing the HCR bill.



If you're a progressive and you want the bill killed... who are your heroes now?



Don't the above names give you pause... make you think that maybe, just maybe, you're wrong about this?

[mikita]

1. My heroes

are people like Rachel Corrie and Sibel Edmonds.

While I can respect a few viewpoints of politicians and M. Moore, they aren't *heroes* to me.

And I still don't like the bill.....

[KansasVoter]

2. Dumb logic. How many "progressives" voted for the War and Patriot Act?

I am for HCR, but your logic is stupid!

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. True.

They also all agree that it's a shitty bill.

[Sky Masterson]

4. I was going to say that they all had Balls!

We need fighters!

[Enrique]

5. what purpose does the taunting serve?

I've come around and I want the bill passed, but it definitely isn't a slam dunk. I'm supporting it mostly for politics, so the president and the party don't get hurt. I'm not expecting much as far as solving the insurance problem, and I'm afraid it will make real reform more difficult. I hope I'm wrong.

One thing I'm sure of is that the bill isn't good enough to taunt people who still oppose it.

[Bicoastal]

7. My sentiments exactly. Unrec.

[pocoloco]

10. Oh Hell Yeah!!

The president and the party are much more important than.....you know....
people.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. They Agree The Insurance Bill Is The Greatest Nonmilitary Transfer of Wealth

to corporations in history?

[ChicagoSuz219]

8. They're all smart enough to know...

...you've got to play the hand you're dealt.

[OnyxCollie]

9. All my heroes are dead.

They never disappoint me.

[DCBob]

11. I was thinking the same thing.. are there any elected progressive against the bill now?

It should give the anti-HCR progressives pause.. at least to consider the possibility they are wrong.

[Enrique]

13. Stephen Lynch I think

from Massachusetts.

[karynnj]

14. Why not Stupak, then?

Do you know anything of his record other than this decision? The MA people have always called him one of the most conservative Democrats in their delegation.

Jim McGovern is a truer progressive - and he supports this bill.

[DCBob]

15. Yes, at the moment, but the AFL-CIO and Change to Win labor unions are asking him to reconsider...

Here is the letter, signed by more than a dozen top union officials.

Dear Representative Lynch:

America has been trying for more than 100 years to enact comprehensive healthcare reform, and the voices of working women and men have been at the forefront of this movement at every turn and in every decade. Working men and women throughout
Massachusetts have stood up time and time again - and we are asking that you stand with
us now.

Congress has an opportunity to make history and improve the lives of millions of working families. This bill is not perfect, but if Congress does not pass it, we cannot work together to improve it. We fully understand your concerns that this bill does not do enough to hold insurance companies accountable, but this bill is an enormous first step in the right direction. In this year alone, insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny care to children with pre-existing illnesses, lifetime caps on coverage will be lifted, and parents would be able to keep their children on their policies up to age 26. If Congress passes this legislation, together, we can continue to strengthen consumer protections, increase market competition, and ensure that insurance companies no longer have a stranglehold on consumers. If Congress doesn't pass the bill, none of this is possible. All we are left with is the status quo.

Congressman, we will not be able to explain to the working women and men of our union why you voted against their interests. We have stood together time and time again and you have made an enormous difference in the lives of our members. It takes courage to make history. We know that you have always had the courage to do the right thing - national health reform is the right thing for Massachusetts families.

Please stand with us once again and do the right thing.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/live/countdown-to-reform-wire/?ref=fpblg

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

12. I'm a progressive/liberal and I SUPPORT this bill 100%!! Can't afford for people to continue

to die because we want the perfect bill. The reality is that the political environment won't allow for it, sadly.

The long-range goal should be to change the mindset of Americans. We will never have a single payer system because the average American is too selfish and greedy. That's the reality that we have to live with unless there is a change in the hearts and minds of American citizens.

[fadedrose]

16. WRONG??? Help!

I'm waiting for a revelation to give some insight as to what I should think. Can't be wrong because I don't have an firm opinion.

First, I want somebody to explain something about insurance companies.

Dylan, Dean, et al heroes say the INSURANCE COMPANY STOCKS ARE GOING UP.
So what does that mean? The companies are happy?

President Obama and defenders of the bill are saying that the INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE SPENDING A FORTUNE TO DEFEAT THE BILL. The companies are not happy?

How can anybody reconcile these statements. Can you? Maybe if we knew the answer to just this one puzzle we'd know what to think of our heroes.

[Ozymanithrax]

17. stocks are not a mood ring for a company

They are a feeling among institutional investors, individual investors, and the current health of said company. Health Care companies are making a lot of money. Their spread sheets look good. In bad economic times they are one of the few investments that have healthy spread sheets. But they indicate absolutely nothing about the "happiness" of the company.

(By the way, companies are not living beings and can to feel happiness, they only have freedom of speech)

For more than a year these companies have spent approximately 1 million dollars a day to stop any health care bill. Health Insurance Companies do not set the price of their stock on the open market. They do determine how much they spend on attempting to influence politicians, support the tea party movement, and the public. The money they spend to stop health care reform is a direct indicator of how they feel about it.

Your statements above do not reconcile because they are not related.

[fadedrose]

20. The "happy" and "unhappy" terms made my inquiry easier.

I think what you told me makes sense.

Because of the obscene profits the insurance companies are making, the stock goes up, dividends are paid, and they are rated higher by some measurement of the NYSE, which in turn increases the stock value. And if they increase premiums, it shows on their profit/loss thingy and their stock goes higher again.

Am not a stock owner...bear with me.

So now, to keep it that way, they are paying thousands (or millions?) of dollars to fight anything that interferes with the company profits and stock values.

But I still feel that they are related, tho not reconcilable. If the bill goes down, the fight is over and will not go on in perpetuity, they hope. So the faux "happy/unhappy situation" is a temporary and desperate situation at best.

You are a very bright person. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

[LWolf]

18. You've pointed out the fatal flaw in the national condition.

That so many can't think for themselves, but must have "heroes" to lead them, to help them make their choices.

I'm not one of those. Dean, Moore, DK, Sanders, Weiner, and Grayson aren't "heroes." They are politicians. While I support them because, more often than not, I agree with the positions they take, I don't take a position because they do.

I'm not in favor of passing the health care bill. For a variety of reasons already discussed on DU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7956377&mesg_id=7956377

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7955578

Their vote on the HRC bill doesn't "give me pause." I understand that it's a political vote, and that this administration is more willing to bully it's own party into submission while cozying up to the opposition.

Maybe I'm wrong about this. It's certainly possible. But there has been not one iota of information to make me thinks so.

[Bullet1987]

19. Michael Moore and Kucinich definitely aren't supporting it with open arms

They've been very vocal about how bad this bill is...same for Dean. I think Kucinich was strong-armed though. I still like them, especially Moore, arguably this whole argument started after he released Sicko. But it's clear people are rallying behind this bill for party purposes now.