What makes you think Health Insurance Dollars Won't be Spent To Make HCR WORSE after passing?

[Vinnie From Indy]

While it is clear the first Mt. Everest-sized bit of denial and assumption is that health insurers will actually play ball in regard to the new HCR provisions, the second has to be the ASSUMPTION that the legislation will get BETTER after passage. I find it astounding that after we have watched the lobby group after lobby group write legislation and get it passed over the last decade that anyone would automatically assume that the "tinkering" with HCR legislation would be to make it "better". The fact is that this legislation could be tinkered with in such a way that even the the very, very small positives will be eroded or eliminated in future Congresses. After the Citizens United decision the power of corporate interests will only get more pronounced. Sure, SS and other programs expanded and got better, but that was before the Citizens United decision.

I think it is also fantasy to believe that the insurance dollars being thrown at Dems this time by the health insurnace lobby won't be thrown at the GOP in future years with sole goal of eliminating those pesky provisions that effect their profit in any way. Now that they have a secure place at the table, what will stop them?

[havocmom]

1. Yep. It's not like the industry is trembling in fear of more 'reform'

They sure don't fear the representatives of 'the people' they have been funding and providing family members with jobs.

[kestrel91316]

2. If the situation gets bad enough, the pitchforks and torches come out.

And if medical insurance gets too expensive for people to buy, the insurers won't HAVE any money to bribe Congress with anymore.

[salguine]

3. Thanks Vinnie From Indy. I feel less alone now.

[chowder66]

4. They will find loopholes but...

that just means that we keep at our reps, keep encouraging them to tweak reform. I for one am not willing to settle or willing to walk away. If I did walk away I would be acting like those politicians that think their work is done after tomorrows vote.

[WhiteTara]

5. vote democratic

keep the pubies out of the majority. Work to make sure that it doesn't. Call your congress critters. Write letters. Be a very active citizen.

The price of liberty is constant vigilance. paraphrased quote of someone famous in our history.

[FormerDittoHead]

6. The amendments (public option) wouldn't need a super-majority...

Oops. I guess that's been re-written.

You have a very good point.

ANOTHER problem I've seen in this situation is this narrative is how the insurance companies have been "fighting" the bill, as if there's this "bill" out there which strips them of everything.

"If it won't hurt them, why are they fighting it so much?"

As the Republicans frame arguments by using certain expressions, this does the same thing for Democrats. Let's look at the frame.

The implied argument is that on the one hand, you have the President and the Democrats (and Bernie Sanders) fighting for something which gets us closer to single payer and will eventually get us there. What they're (on edit: typo) fighting for is a complete crippling of insurance companies and they will be forced to go to near-bankruptcy under the regulations they will be saddled with! Their profits will be SLASHED!

The Republicans, on the other hand, are the only ones receiving money from PHARMA and MedCo. Their opposition they've put into it is the only support that the insurance companies have in the situation, culminating in a unanimous vote against the HCR, in spite of Obama trying to win their votes by making one compromise after another.

But, excuse me, that narrative is BULLSHIT. Insurance companies have been pulling the strings ON BOTH SIDES from BEFORE the beginning of this...

Here's the FACT: you CAN'T mandate people to buy insurance UNLESS there is no rescission or rejection due to existing conditions. Think about that from the side of the insurance company: "How can we get gov't to mandate everyone buy our services and even pay for those (including our markup for profits) who can't afford it?" "Well, there's NO WAY we could sell that to the American people if there was anyone excluded from some kind (no matter how minimal) coverage..."

BTW: It's the same for Social Security. NO WAY people will put money "into" it unless they can expect to get it OUT.

So you're right. NOW THAT WE'RE GOING WITH RECONCILIATION, this whole "we'll fix it later" is a total canard - it's BULLSHIT.

[gravity]

7. Because it will piss too many people off

Once people get used to receiving the benefits health care reform, it is going to be impossible to take it away.

It is like messing with Social Security. It ain't going to happen.

[gulfcoastliberal]

8. K&R for truth & reality... nt

[HughMoran]

9. We're all going to die

...someday :)

[Radical Activist]

10. They will be. And we'll be fighting to make it better.

What makes you so sure we'll lose?

[Orsino]

11. The only things that will get better are those which we fight for.

The Supreme Court has seen to it that even more corporate dollars will be able to oppose us openly.

Fight harder.