Fear Of Socialism

[demwing]

I've been wondering why people fear Socialism in America. Of course, the capitalists are dead set against turning over control of production and resources, but I think it goes beyond that. Americans seems paranoid of Socialists and Socialism, and at a level that actually runs counter to their own economic self interests.

The only thing that makes sense to me, is that the religious see Socialism as a challenge to the authority of their God. How many have read Lenin's quote "Religion is the Opiate of The Masses" and his subsequent challenge that "Everyone must be absolutely free to profess any religion he pleases, or no religion whatever, i.e., to be an atheist, which every socialist is, as a rule."? Well, if Socialists are "as a rule" Atheists, then for Socialism to take root in America, either Americans need to embrace Atheism, or Socialists need to reassess their "rules", and embrace religion.

By recent surveys, about 90% of Americans believe in some sort of God, and about 75% are Christian, while only 3% consider themselves Atheists (the rest are either Agnostic, or without some well defined belief system). If you're a Socialist, or support Socialist principles, then for the good of society, you might want to consider reaching out to your Religious brethren - they out number you 30 to 1.

If upward of 75% of Americans think that Socialists are headed to hell, then Socialists had better find a way to bridge the gap. But is it possible for Socialism and Religion to find common ground?

Talk to me Socialists - is there common ground, and if so, are you willing to plant your flag there, or was Lenin correct? is Atheism a required ingredient in the Socialist stew?

[provis99]

1. for the same reason Southerners who didn't own slaves defended slaveowners.

Because they wanted slaves, too. The reason why Americans fear socialism is that they want to be richer than everybody else, just like billionaires are, and they think socialism will take away their chance to ever be a billionaire. Their expectations of becoming billionaires is as unrealistic as all those poor Southerners thinking they'll own a multitude of slaves one day, but they will continue to defend the current system out of a sense of false hope.

And false hope is the distinguishing characteristic of America.

[randr]

2. It is one of the more than two syllable words they know

and it frightens them.
Ask any teabagger to define it and they will need to know the definition of the word "define".

[demwing]

3. by WHY does it frighten them

I don't think its due to economic reasons. I think that a good 75% of Americans think that Socialism will send their soul to hell, quite literally.

[randr]

7. If people want to think we do not live in a "society" they can parse any words they want

to come to any conclusion they want. The reality is that human society and all the socialism that comes with it has been around for millennium. Just because a totalitarian regime used the word to describe their ideology does not demonize the term or meaning.

[demwing]

13. It isn't parsing words to quote Lenin

and I think it's a failrly well established concept that Socialists as a group are not favorable to relgion.

Do you think there is any responsibility of Socialists to try to bridge the gap, or does the responsibility lie with religious?

[randr]

19. I think the meaning of the word has been long lost

It's association with Lenin is long past. Organizations of Unions were branded as Socialistic as were any new ideas brought forth during the FDR years. As for animosity with religion, that must be some residue from anti communist propaganda that has some basis in reality. The Communists did repress religions as did Hitler. I do not see any direct line, however, from socialistic programs to any anti religious intentions.
The parable of the fishes may be an indication that even Jesus had socialistic leanings.

[demwing]

22. As was Matthew 25:34-40

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,

36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?

38 "When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?

39 "When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'


It is truly Christian to give food, water, housing, clothing, health care, and compassion to the needy and imprisoned. Contrast to the Tea Baggers who mock the man with Parkinson's disease, tell him there are no handouts here, and then throw dollar bills at him while screaming "NO HANDOUTS YOU COMMUNIST!"

If Jesus wasn't an out right Socialist, he was certainly a Progressive Liberal.

[randr]

26. Bingo

[The Northerner]

4. Lots of anti-socialist people I've talked to seem to hate the govt owning & running things

they fear that once the government takes over a private business then it'll continue looking for more businesses to take over.

another thing that they don't seem to like is that they believe that whoever initially owns the resources & private property owns it no matter what, unless the owner grants it to someone voluntarily.

it seems to be some sort of hatred of govt owning things or taking private property that they fear or something similar

[The Magistrate]

5. There Are Several Reasons, Sir

These are the two most important of them.

People generally over-rate both their prospects and abilities, and in our society, this natural tendency is magnified by the prevailing mythos of self-reliance and classlessness. Thus many people feel that in a Socialist order it is they who will be supporting 'free-loaders', and that they will be exploited by people they imagine are inferior to them.

Socialism, during the period of the Cold War, became in propaganda here closely and inextricably identified with Soviet Communism, a system no one would venture to deny was a totalitarian one, which greatly restricted freedoms we are accustomed to, and value, here. Thus, many people consider Socialism to be, as a matter of practical fact, a totalitarian order, and for better or worse cannot be educated on the matter.

[Ohio Joe]

6. My thoughts...

The rich have put a lot of money and effort into equating socialism with "you live under a dictator", which of course is complete non-sense but it has been a successful campaign. I am an atheist but I really have no issue with those that believe as long as they do not want to legislate their religion. I see no conflict with Socialism, religion and atheism all co-existing in a society... We all co-operate for the common good... worship as you wish... leave me alone to not do so... is that really so hard?

[Thrill]

8. They don't know what Socialism is. Their biggest worry is

that the poor get a chance to have good lives. And they can't stand the thought of that.

[Odin2005]

9. They've been brainwashed to beleive that "Socialism" means "Godless Soviet Totalitarianism".

[treestar]

10. Not entirely. When you take away the abortion issue, the Catholic Church

can be surprisingly socialist in outlook. Jeebus was rather a socialist himself.

I think it is faux religion on their part anyway. They don't believe in Jeebus and his teachings; they think of "Christian" as "white" or "European."

Their dislike of any type of help for others is based on their desire to claim to be better than someone as a psychological need and how can that be if we admit some don't have a lot due to bad luck? They want it to be their hard work and superiority, not the fact they were born on second or third base.

They just don't give a shit about anyone else except to have someone to be superior to.

[Cha]

11. Do they even know what it is? Or

are they just regurgitating bech and limphead?

[Hansel]

12. To them it's code for taking my hard earned money and giving it to lazy people.

They want to believe that if they continue to work hard and do the right things that they will never end up like "those people". They have "those people" to compare themselves to in order to be able to say they are better than someone else, because they don't think much of themselves.

They are also angry because they believe that the non-working poor are getting something they are not, even though they work hard. Which, unfortunately, is sometimes all too true. If you are exclusively on welfare you get medicaid, but if you work and make just above what you get on welfare you don't. It used to be before Reagan that the working poor got medicaid until they could make enough money to buy their own insurance. He made sure to put an end to that.

A lot of them have also been programmed to believe that Democrats, and in particular, minority Democrats will take their money from them and give it to their "own kind". Some of this has to do with guilt and some of it has to do with right wingers from Reagan on to the more extreme Glenn Beck brainwashing them into believing this. This is where "tax and spend" liberals come from. They are gonna take my hard earned money and give it go them welfare queens, them illegal immigrants, them lazy...

[demwing]

14. Which is unusual, giving what you hear about so called "Christian Charity"

A concept that I think sayd nothing about the the faith of the people giving charity, but really refers to the faith of the people eligible for said charity.

[treestar]

16. In theory if all entitlements were repealed, they would supposedly give

alms to the poor, which is what they claim. Of course THEY would be successful under the free market. And then give to charity.

But:

1. It is impossible to believe them and
2. They want control over who they give to so they could control the recipient's behavior, so in return for help for the poor, the poor would have to abide by the givers' moral codes.

[demwing]

18. There was a farmer had a dog.

I think his name was BINGO.

[treestar]

15. Your first paragraph sums it up

They do not want to believe it could happen to them. If they can just believe everything is in their control, they don't have to worry about being unemployed, etc. They just try to make the concept impossible.

And they have to be superior to somebody, amen! They need some symbol that they are better than somebody, somewhere. Even if they were born on second base, they must insist they hit a double.

[demwing]

17. See, I really don't think they believe in the rewards of good ol fashioned hard work

I think they believe in the rewards of spiritual protectionism. A "God would never let this happen to me" mentality.

In short, the often asked question "Why do bad things happen to good people" is answered by fundies in the least introspective of terms: "Bad things happen to bad people, not Christians. If bad things happen to you, it's God's punishment, and your fault."

It's sort of a market driven faith. Not truly Christian at all...

[Blue_Tires]

30. +1

[Bullet1987]

20. American paranoia of socialism goes back several decades

Those on the Right have always been told to fear it by the Republican Party which was the original corporate/business party. It was vilified so much (being compared to communism), that even those on the Left were afraid to speak of it.

[craigmatic]

21. People don't understand what socialism is. So the politicians should just

push socialist policies without calling them that.

[Xenotime]

23. Socialism is the only thing that will save America. Capitialism is dead.

[demwing]

24. Well, that may well be (or not) but what about my questions?

About what you think makes people paranoid about Socialism, and whether Socialism and Religion have common ground. Your opinion may be very valuable - share it!

[TCJ70]

25. From what I understand, the church depicted in Acts 2 is a socialist venture. n/t

[demwing]

28. Theres a famous quote at Acts 2:24-25

44. And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45. And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all , as every man had need.


Each according to his need, in a commune setting.

[belpejic]

27. I don't think that most of them know what socialism is.

It's just a proxy term for their prejudices and fears. Socialists are immigrants who operate the black helicopters that steal their lawn furniture.

[Prism]

29. They don't. They fear liberalism

They call it socialism because it sounds scarier.

Time and again, the moment a Democratic politician attempts even the lightest of liberal policy, Republicans scream socialism in the hopes of making the Democrat back away and skitter off towards the center-right. And you know what?

It works.