Question for my fellow DUers who fought HCR for some of the right

[babylonsister]

reasons.

I respect your opinion, and hope we can improve upon it.

Are any of you happy for all of us Democrats for this success?

I hope so.

I also know there is a lot more to do, but think there is a man in the WH who will listen to everyone and will be right by your side to improve what has been accomplished tonight.

I hope this might be the start of something very cool because we have a guy who listens.

But warning. He takes his time. :D

[Ken Burch]

1. I'm glad the bill passed. The losing streak needed to be broken

The struggle to correct the problems needs to start tomorrow morning.

[kestrel91316]

4. We gotta wait until right after he signs it. Patience, grasshopper.

[Ken Burch]

5. Well, yeah. Obviously I get that.

n/t.

[Bluerthanblue]

2. .

K&R

i hope so too.

:hi:

[Peacetrain]

3. K&R!!!!

[spoony]

6. I don't mind the RWer heads exploding, that's for sure.

I am still disappointed in the bill, and will take a "believe it when I see it" approach to the vague promises to fix it later. But I'd like my suspicions to be proven wrong, and for now I have no interest in spoiling the party because I know a lot of people think this is a big success so I doubt I'll post on the matter very much in the coming weeks.

[babylonsister]

7. Thank you for your honesty. I think it's a big success but know

where you're coming from. I hope you are proved wrong. I also hope the best for you and yours.

[spoony]

8. Cheers. nt

[goclark]

10. That was a response with a lot of class nt

[Krashkopf]

9. Yes . . .

We have taken some small steps in the right direction, and I am happy for that.

I am also happy that the President has beaten back this effort by the Republicans' to cripple his Presidency.

Cangrats to all involved!

[eridani]

11. It is simply fascism to force us to accept mass murderers as intermediaries

--between us and our medical providers, forever. Congress affirmed today the utterly despicable value that the health care you get will only be as good as the money you have. Whenever I see Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze I want to vomit.

And I don't appreciate at all the cheering for permanently classifying people in my age group as disposable human garbage. Hey, the insurance companies already do it, so the government has no choice except to make it official, right?

Obama is NOT listening to us. He specifically bragged that he did not now and would NEVER do so in the future. We are the despicable "left" who wanted the public option that 82% of the public wants. He doesn't want to "disrupt" the system that much. We believed him when he campaigned against mandates and against taxes on benefits, and he has established himself as a first class liar.

If I thought the legislation was going to be improved on, I could live with it. If it even included an ERISA waiver available immediately, that would have almost been worth putting up with the rest of the crap. But the whole point of the bill was to flat out prevent any further changes. Grayson's bill, a separate public option bill--all are going to be dumped in the trash with HR 676. The reason given will be that we already did health care this year.

Still, as a matter of fact I did enjoy seeing the pain of the Republicans. Always nice watching sociopaths suffer for a change. But it wasn't much compensation for the total destruction of all hope for equal access and equal care. Our unique American values apparently prevent that.

[inna]

12. +1

[phleshdef]

17. What a bunch of overdramatic "leave Britnet alone" bullshit.

[dionysus]

23. no doubt.

[eridani]

39. So, 46,000 a year would still die if we had guaranteed CARE, like they have in civilized countries?

It is insurance company control of health care that kills those people, given that where they are regulated by government dictatorship or not allowed to exist at all, people NEVER, under any circumstances, die or become bankrupt because they can't pay for care.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sheepshank]

27. This despicalbe leftie

is super excited that something has moved off the table and into reality.

I'm thinking it would be the cherry on the top (and I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility) that the Reps fought hard to dismantle Public Option from this bill, only to find it resurrected more in the form of Single Payer or Universal. But I'm forever the optimist ;)

[Hekate]

13. KnR, Babs

:bounce:

[mstinamotorcity]

14. Our President

has put forth a valiant effort. There are some things in this bill that makes me angry. Like the insurance companies still get to make money at enormous profits. But the possibility for everyone to have health care is more important than my dislikes. I know that more access to health care means less sick people and the field of health care opening the need for more health care professionals which in turn means jobs.Congrats to our President and to all here at DU who have sacrificed their stories, their words,their pain,their energy,and their time writing to no good congressmen who protect their own pocketbooks. You all did a wonderful job.Love it when we come together to make a change. Yes we can and yes we did!!!!!!!!:toast: :toast: :toast: :bounce: :bounce: :smoke: :smoke: :hi:

[eridani]

16. That's what upsets me. We aren't getting a chance at CARE, just insurance n/t

[phleshdef]

19. Insurance companies are forced to provide you with insurance and use it for care, PERIOD.

Anything contrary to that is a fucking lie.

[eridani]

34. OK. Tell me how enforcement works, bearing in mind

--that Feinstein's amendment to create a federal enforcement agency FAILED. There is not one single word in the legislation mandating that they must pay every claim.

Locking the barn door after the horse gets away is not regulation in any sense of the word, as demonstrated by the following real life example.

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Sarkisian:

We were sorry to hear that your daughter Nataline died because CIGNA denied your claim for her liver transplant. However, you will be glad to know that we have analyzed CIGNA’s medical loss ratio and that all of their customers are entitled to premium refunds. Isn’t that wonderful?

Yours truly,
Dr. Pangloss

[phleshdef]

43. I'm not in the mood to answer stupid questions.

It will be enforced the same way every other regulation in this country is enforced. Use common sense.

[eridani]

45. Really? Why then did CA stop enforcing its anti-recission law when they couldn't afford to?

Give me a link that shows that there is an official enforcement agency at the federal level that is funded.

[dkf]

15. This has been the most disillusioning experience I have had since I started getting

Interested in politics. I feel nothing but disgust for the way peoples lives and futures were bargained away.

No public option means no respect for the wishes of the people and no regard for true fixes to this crazy system.

Our politicians are bought and paid for. Now I know. I don't think this system is worth fighting for. I think it needs to collapse.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Festivito]

20. Better to have an America that respects slavery, than no America at all.

So, our Constitution played the 3/5 game and so on.

Now we have a bill that almost says we'll all hang together so some of us might not hang separately. Not that impressive, but, impressive enough for now. Though maddening for the fact that we know it COSTS MORE while COVERING FEWER people than the idea that is tried, tested and used in almost every other country. But, again, if it is not as good as what we could have had it is a little better than what we had.

It's a complicated thing, an unnecessarily complicated thing, and we'll have to see how it works out. Just as the early Constitution writers had to see how this new idea would work out.

At least the Constitution was a new idea not tested all over the world the way single-payer has been tested all over. It had a reason it needed to be conciliatory to the sociopaths of its day. We did not need to be on this.

I'll watch the fireworks. I won't light one. Rah.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

21. I am glad the bill was passed

It should have been much better but hopefully they will now improve upon it.

[lunatica]

24. I think that a political victory right now is very important

I'm glad it passed because it's progress. But I don't discount the importance of a political victory, especially when it's on the right side of decency. I see it this way. The insanity in this country from the Republicans being the party that proudly and literally is the Party of No to the profound embarrassment we've endured because the world has seen our stupidest Americans paraded out as some representation of all Americans. It's been a year of Sarah Palin's bizarre screechings about death panels and retards and Beck feverishly attacking blackboards. All of us thought they would win yet one more time no matter how insane they are, yet it didn't happen. The world today, which includes us see that they are defeated.

If you think about it we've been winning a few since 2006. All those wins were against incredible odds. This one is too. We look more like intelligent Americans today than we do Idiocrats. That's a win.

[LWolf]

25. No. I am not happy.

Why would I be happy when I don't view it as a success?

And as far as the man in the WH goes, I already know he doesn't listen to me. The letter in response to the one I wrote him congratulating him on his election made that clear.

Not that it's a surprise. I'm one of the people he is willing to throw under the bus in his efforts to union-bust and privatize.

I'm a teacher.

When he apologizes for his remarks praising the firing of 93 teachers as a solution to systemic dysfunction not created by nor in the control of those teachers; when he fires Duncan and puts an actual educator in his place; when he apologizes to the teachers of the nation for scapegoating them and suggesting that Central Falls is a model that ought to be replicated; when he apologizes to us for the abysmal insurance "reform" bill he's about to sign and use to promote his "achievements," while leaving actual health CARE behind; when he stops escalating the bogus "war on terror" and brings our troops home...

Then, and only then, will he be "right by my side."

[gkhouston]

26. Of course I'm glad they had a success. This was never about wanting to see Dems fail.

My concerns have been about the bill itself, most notably about the lack of a public option. Yes, I'd much rather have single payer but didn't think that was achievable this time around.

Ironically, the Republicans' stated determination to fight HCR, even to repeal it :rofl: gives me hope that we might get a public option sooner rather than later. If the Republicans want to fight about healthcare during an election year, we should do everything in our power to egg them on because they're on shaky ground. Let's up the cost containment by adding a public option to the exchange. Even if the Republicans have grown a collective brain since last night (miracles for our times), they'll be in a bind: if they don't condemn what the Dems are doing, their constituents are going to wonder why HCR is suddenly not a Bad Thing? Was the GOP wrong or *gasp* lying when they said it was an evil government takeover?

[Bluenorthwest]

28. Insulting post

Every last Democrat wanted the best for as many people as possible. Some of us are not going to be treated equally under this bill, shall I ask in the spirit you display, if that makes you happier than if it were equal for all of us?

And you know, 15 million Americans will still be without coverage of any kind under this bill. The stated goal, today even repeated as if it were true of this bill, was to cover everybody. We did not do that. We reduced the number of deaths from lack of care to about 15,000 a year. To the families of those 15,000, this bill amounts to nothing, and that can not be forgotten.
Imagine a field of 15,000 headstones, then uncork your Cristal and toast if you will. I'll pass, thanks.

[Kalun D]

38. Well said my friend

""Imagine a field of 15,000 headstones, then uncork your Cristal and toast if you will. I'll pass, thanks.""

well said

[Greyhound]

29. Speaking for myself, I'mhappy that (most of) you are happy.

But this is still a disaster that we will rue for decades.

:cry:

[Cleobulus]

30. Being happy isn't the right word...

more like resignation, I also hope this bill isn't improved upon, but replaced by a single payer plan, hopefully before most of it is enacted, but I don't hold out too much hope that that will ever happen.

[TheKentuckian]

31. I'm happy that the IDEA of health care reform got a win but am pretty crestfallen on the substance

of the reality.

These structures have been set up to firewall comprehensive reform rather than to provide a platform that could be used to eventually move towards a universal national care system. Structures that would haunt any public option thrown into the exchanges.

The reality is we lost the "starter house" the moment we allowed them to weasel into the status quo of state pools and principle regulation and hammered in the final nail in comprehensive reforms coffin when the anti-trust exemption was maintained.

We might get the anti-trust language in some form at some point but state pools and primary regulation are all but in stone. I pleaded with folks the whole way to focus on these elements that would actually give us some segway without another full on reform effort but no one cared and now from a structural stand point we really did get almost nothing.

I also have to take a little exception on the thoughts about the President listening. No question he is all ears for "stakeholders", Republicans, right wing Democrats, and so on but I've seen very little indication that he has much interest or inclination for any fiscally related policy that isn't market oriented. He is a believer in the invisible hand and private enterprise but not much on anything that might have a signpost that says "this way to socialism".

In any event, this isn't about the President or any pols. They are but stewards of our power and means to an end and I hope every Democrat is fired up and ready to go to utilize these tools to continue to strive toward a more perfect Union and social and economic justice rather than just "wins".

[paulk]

32. I'm not at all convinced this is a "success"

It is the foundation for a hammerlock of the health insurance industry and it's control over our healthcare. At best it is a step sideways, not forward - and could eventually become a step backward...

It is yet another example of our political class doing the bidding of the real power brokers in this country - the investor class (and it's investments in the insurance industry)- and, as far as Obama listening - yes, he is - he's listening to Wall Street and that same "investor class".

--------------

if defeating the Republicans is the new criterion for "good" legislation, then that is a truly low bar to jump - the only justification for supporting this bill was to give Obama (and the Democrats) that victory - in the hope that improvements would follow in some indeterminate future. I'm glad for you that you have faith in the Obama administration's ability to do this - I don't - after watching the clusterfuck of the last year, the constant capitulations, the watering down always in the favor of the center to right - I think Obama got exactly the bill he wanted.

[Geek_Girl]

33. I'm happy that the Tea baggers heads are exploding and the GOP

are on the loosing side.
I think some good will come out of this bill. Maybe in another 20 years or so we'll have universal health care. I guess this is a step closer to that.

[ibegurpard]

35. Will you cheer our victory?

When we threw out everything you believe to appease insurance corporations and pharmaceutical companies?
I think you guys have quite enough company at your rally.

[Eric Condon]

36. Here's how I see it

A couple years ago I was talking with some people about Iraq and one of them (who is liberal) said it would be a mistake to pull out of Iraq simply because we had a responsibility to clean up our mess. My response was that he was correct, but at the same time, if we continued to fight, more people would continue to die in a war started under false pretenses. Such was the all-encompassing horror of the Bush years, that we could be thrust into a position where we had only two options to choose from, and both of them were somehow wrong.

That's how I feel about this. Both passing and not passing this bill would have been wrong. I can't decide which would be worse. There was no right course of action, other than the one we never had any chance of taking.

It's a fitting comparison, Iraq and HCR - both feature corporations profiting off the deaths of thousands, all thanks to sellout politicians they've bought and paid for.

So no, I won't be celebrating this health care bill. Since humans naturally run screaming from cognitive dissonance, it may be hard for partisan Democrats to come to terms with the fact that their President, the man who inspired so much hope in all of us in the past, does not work for them, and is long past the point of maintaining any pretense that he does. But it's time to acknowledge that this administration has only one constituent, only one "base," and that is big business. We are NOTHING to them. And on the rare occasion that someone within the administration takes a principled stand on anything (like, say, Biden on Afghanistan), they'll inevitably be shouted down by the powers that be. Things will only get worse, and 10 or 15 of us here on DU will talk a big game about supporting insurgent primary candidates like Kucinich, but nothing will ever come of it. Progress will NEVER happen in America, because conservatives don't want it to happen, and liberals are so beaten down that we'll apparently accept corporate BULLSHIT like this bill and even hail it as a "victory."

For-profit health care is the biggest thing standing in the way of us being a civilized nation, and we won't see it in my lifetime. Typically that's something you hear older people say, but I'm 24. And it still stands.

I'm done pretending. I saw what happened last time I thought a simple election, or a change in administrations, could actually bring about change. We get stuck with Bush's 3rd term, or - oh, fuck it, who am I kidding? Reagan's 8th term.

[Kalun D]

37. I'm Not Happy, Sorry

There's nothing to be happy about.

The insurance companies still have their anti-trust exemption, do you know what that means?

That means they can collude amongst each other and set prices, IOW, the "competition" is rigged, it's a virtual monopoly, they take 30% right off the top, businesses like this usually exist on 2%-3%. That's why costs have gone through the roof.

this is the first time in the entire history of the country that we will be forced to buy something from a private corporation, and they are crooked beyond belief

It's similar to when they made car insurance mandatory except you can choose not to drive a car, you can't choose not to be alive

they said then what they're saying now, rates will go down if everyone has to buy in, it didn't happen then and it won't happen now.

Your trust in Obama is sadly misplaced, I feel for people that bought in to the incredible image, it is a nice one but behind the facade he's nothing but a really good actor, a corporate puppet. One of his first jobs while in college was with Henry Kissinger, as corporate corrupt as they come. Obama has been an insider from the start.

Look at the record after only one year. Bush initiated the $700 billion "bailout" for the crooked bankers that intentionally caused the banking crisis. Obama was front and center helping push that bailout through congress, even though Americans were against it 9 to 1. The phone banks of congress crashed, it got a new record of constituent response. After Obama became prez he appointed Geitner, a crooked Republican banking insider, to a banking oversite position. Then Obama reappointed Bernanke, a crooked Republican banking insider, originally appointed by bush. IOW, business as usual, the bank robbers are guarding the bank.

Obama's 2nd largest campaign contributor, Goldman Sachs gave $995,000, they got $Billions in return, a pennies on the $100 investment.

so the bankers pulled literally the biggest scam in history and got another $700 billion to "fix" the problem they caused, then they took $150 billion in bonuses in 2009. Coincidentally all the red ink in all the states for 2009 was about $150 billion. Then Obama proposed $1.5 billion for the millions of homeowners in mortgage trouble. How generous, $150 billion for a few hundred bankers, $1.5 billion for millions of the working class.

And health care "reform" another sham, just like the banking fiasco. Obama secretly met early on with big Pharma, a deal the WH first tried to deny, but the story leaked out. Then he met with Health care providers from CA, again behind closed doors but the story came out in the NYT. Soon after this the WH came out saying the public option was not needed, the very next day, health and insurance stocks skyrocketed. After that Obama pushed, behind closed doors again, to keep the PO out, that's what we have now. Remember too that single payer was the benchmark, the fair progressive choice, the REAL health care reform. The public option was a weak 2nd choice, we didn't even get the weak 2nd choice, we got 2700 pages of loopholes.

I voted for Obama knowing he was only the lesser of two evils. The majority get their "news" from the TV, that's where they decide who to vote for. The television is completely owned by the corporations, they decide who we get to choose from for president. If you get even semi-favorable coverage on the corporate TV that means you've already been vetted by the corporations. So seeing his favorable coverage I knew he was sold out, I just didn't know how bad. The $700 billion, not closing Gitmo, not reversing any of the bush encroachment on rights, escalating Afghan, not exiting Iraq, his education secretary choice and attacks on the teachers Union, and now this sham giveaway to the health insurance companies. Obama is COMPLETELY sold out.

[Vinca]

40. I'm happy it passed because I know it will help some people . . .

especially ones who will now have access to Medicaid. We all should have access to Medicaid or Medicare and that's where we should head. I'm still bothered by the fact life and death is a "for profit" industry. It's immoral.

[freddie mertz]

41. I am happy for the relatively few people who will benefit right away.

On the whole, I am utterly discouraged by how the process was handled, by the "situational" dishonesty exhibited at times by the president, by the failure to enact genuine systemic reforms, and angered by the marginalization and at times, the demonization of progressives that was orchestrated by this White House (and by its advocates here on DU).

I will not forget any of that anytime soon.

I feel that I have no political home anymore.

[Arkansas Granny]

42. I have mixed feelings on this issue. I'm glad that some people will see a benefit,

but I realize that the insurance companies will benefit most of all.

I'm amazed that many here seem to equate health care coverage with the actual health care itself. Just because you are paying for insurance doesn't mean that you can afford to shell out even more money to cover the deductibles and co-pays that allow you access health care. If there is anything in this bill that will alleviate that problem, I haven't seen it.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

44. How happy am I about this bill?

I just officially changed my Party affiliation. :( I have been proud Democrat since 1979, but no more.

Am I happy for the Democrats for this "victory"? I cannot be happy for something that I think will harm the Party. I think this legislation will come back to haunt them.

I am happy for any American who may now gets genuinely affordable health care as a result of this bill. But I am deeply sorry we were not able to do a helluva lot better then this sad excuse for health care reform.