I have failed to appreciate Obama's brilliance.

[kristopher]

I just didn't get it until now.

I've come to see that Obama has mastered the art of "putting the Republicans into a corner", he has perfected the strategy of "defusing their arguments before they can make them".

I don't know why the Dems didn't figure this out decades ago. All we need to do is enact the legislation the Republican agenda has sought for 30 years and in one fell swoop we make ourselves immune to Republican criticisms AND we achieve historic legislative accomplishments that give the President lots of political capital to push through even more of the Republican Agenda.

What's next? War on Venezuela to preserve democracy? That will show those Republican's who is boss...

[tabatha]

1. You miss a lot of deeper points.

[tyne]

3. Evidently...

also missed many things he said during the campaign.

[kristopher]

12. No, I didn't miss the CLAIMS of "deeper points"

Just like taking the best alternative off the table in health care left us with a system committed to a privatized insurance and for profit medical industry, so this move endorses the WRONG solution to our energy problems.

What I heard during the campaign was promotion of an approach that followed "science based" solutions instead of ideology. That is NOT what nuclear power and drilling represent.

I have been an extremely strong supporter of Obama through health care - I was one of those that made the claim he was playing chess etc.

EVENTS PROVED I WAS WRONG. He traded away single payer and the public option right out of the gate. HE LIED TO US then and this is more of the same. It does nothing solve the problem and it isn't going to get any more support than his right wing turn on a health care approach did.

[amborin]

15. Obama capitulated on the stimulus bill, too; he gave in to rethug demands for useless tax cuts

etc.....and got NOT ONE SINGLE rethug vote for acquiescing to their demands

we have a "Democratic" president who's implementing a republican agenda

why the rethug pols are opposing this is probably for purposes of appealing to the base and for theater

[kristopher]

16. When I found out he used the excuse of Republican opposition to make a deal on single payer

with the hospitals, I can't express how pissed off I was.

[sandnsea]

19. I like my $800 tax cut

It might be "useless" to you, but that's a big chunk of change to me.

[amborin]

37. that's short-term payoff; we're talking of massive environmental destruction & corporate takeover

of American society

[babylonsister]

29. Yea, this 'capitulation' sure does suck...

http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2009-02-12-stimulus-package-effects_N.htm

Heck, here's some extra reading for you...

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=stimulus+bill+benefits&btnG=Google+Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=stimulus+bill+benefits&gs_rfai=&fp=a2bb30ecf4f91972

[tabatha]

28. Single Payer was NEVER what Obama promised.

And how does Obama manufacture votes for PO when they are not there.

It is all very well to WANT to do something, but when there is not the support in the Senate, it cannot be done.

[Ignis]

33. Didn't you read the 2008 Democratic Party platform? I sure did.

Covering All Americans and Providing Real Choices of Affordable Health Insurance Options.

Families and individuals should have the option of keeping the coverage they have or choosing from a wide array of health insurance plans, including many private health insurance options and a public plan. Coverage should be made affordable for all Americans with subsidies provided through tax credits and other means.

-- http://www.democrats.org/a/party/platform.html

How do we "manufacture" votes? How about holding our Blue Dogs to the party platform?

[amborin]

38. Obama campaigned on the PO and the votes WERE there, and majority

of Americans STILL want it

but it's foreclosed on now, along with single payer

[ncteechur]

39. The votes were not there. If they had tried to pass the PO in the

reconciliation, it would have blown the entire bill up because the votes would have disappeared.
The fact is that the senate is not progressive so it doesn't matter what the House is. You still need 60 senate votes to do most everything and we don't have 60. We never did have 60 votes, just 60 members in the caucus.

You can have Dennis Kucinich as president but he will not get anything accomplished without congress and the senate is center left.

If you want to have a progressive agenda you have to have a progressive senate, house, and president.

[amborin]

41. nonsense; the public was and is in favor of the PO and O had the opportunity to implement it; but

the backroom deals with big Pharma and the hospitals were top priority for Obama

[sandnsea]

2. How much oil will this drilling produce?

Seriously, please answer that question.

[sharp_stick]

6. Probably very little

in fact most of the area will never even be explored because of high cost and no return. People envision a horizon covered in offshore rigs but in reality not much of anything is going to change with this.

You can "open" up the areas but if the oil isn't going to be easily found nobody is going to set up to begin with.

[sandnsea]

9. Still, how much? .25% of our usage?

How much?

And then the obvious queston becomes, Candidate Teabag, how are you going to meet the US energy needs now that drilling is open and it still isn't enough?

[dgibby]

17. It doesn't matter. It will be sold on the open market to the highest bidder. n/t

[sandnsea]

18. It won't meet our energy needs.

So what are the Republicans going to say when that truth is exposed.

[kristopher]

20. To develop ALL areas for drilling including the tar sands, oil from coal, more nuclear, more coal.

How is that for a start?

[sandnsea]

21. It STILL won't be enough

We Do Not Have Enough Oil. You know that, why are you pretending otherwise?

The US does not have enough oil to meet our energy needs. We never will. So we've opened oil drilling -- now what are they going to do? What's their solution?

[kristopher]

23. Who said anything about having enough oil?

You asked what the Republicans will say. They don't give a rat's ass about anything but making money for the existing entrenched energy industries.

As to what they will do next, Obama already endorsed their darling hope for tomorrow - nuclear power.

[sandnsea]

24. That's the entire point. Drilling won't work

Don't you get it? And neither will nuclear. There isn't anyplace to store the waste.

People are going to have to start dealing with the reality of their empty rhetoric.

[kristopher]

30. When do you expect that to happen? 2035? 2050? 500ppm CO2?

Their rhetoric won't be proved empty until it too late to act with what DOES work, and in the meantime we are making the bastards richer and the rest of us poorer.

Just like his deal on the public option and his support for nuclear and "clean coal" this is indefensible BULLSHIT.

[sandnsea]

32. The discussion is happening NOW

We're writing climate change and new energy legislation NOW. He took drilling out of the debate. Now they have to deal with the rest of the problem, the 98% of our energy needs that can't be met with OUR OWN oil. Get it yet?

[Jakes Progress]

35. You are in a futile conversation.

There is a group here to whom there are no rights and wrongs, no serious moral center. Whatever the administration does, that is what is good. Period.

There is no point in telling them that republicans don't operate or run on logic. They will still claim that drilling will work. And the kind of people that vote republican will believe them. Logic and reality don't affect their votes any more than it does for the group of blind supporters here. Drilling won't make us any republican friends. It won't solve our problem of over consumption of oil. It won't do what the administration thinks it will.

[phleshdef]

7. I think the real question is how much drilling is actually going to happen.

[zipplewrath]

4. Triangulation

Go read up on the Clinton Presidency. You know, things like Don't Ask, Don't Tell, that actually increase the numbers being expelled. Defense of Marriage Act. Welfare "Reform". "The end of big government". NAFTA...

[tridim]

5. Simplistic thinking

Especially considering this off shore deal isn't at all what they Republicans proposed in the past.

Did you listen to anything that the President said this morning?

[NJmaverick]

8. Tackling global warming is a Republican agenda?

Expanding Medicaid is a Republican agenda?

Eliminating pre-existing conditions and giving people supplemental funding to purchase health insurance is a Republican agenda?



:crazy:

[amborin]

10. K&R we're already expanding US military bases in Colombia:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7986437

[ShortnFiery]

11. I wonder if the enrollment for what was known as "School of the Americas" is up lately?

[impik]

13. You the "Demagogy of the day" award

[Lerkfish]

14. weird, I recc'd this thread but its still zero

well, I tried.

Although I don't agree completely, you do make a valid point. Bipartisanship with republicans always ends up being capitulation.

[Ignis]

22. Oh, but this is the _New_ Triangulation!

Completely unlike that mid-90s Third Way. No relation whatsoever!

:argh:

[mkultra]

25. Most dems are accustomed to their presidents speaking to them..

where as Obama actually speaks to the middle. This seems like a wise move to me as he becomes immune to the "too liberal" argument that most conservative politics is founded on.

[TheKentuckian]

34. Except he's not.

They will squeal and believe fantasy no matter what. Obama could completely adopt their agenda and they'd just dart further right and not even be held accountable for it from any quarter, just as they have done the entire last generation.

The "middle" is on rollers that only go right.

[mkultra]

44. uh, ok

[dave29]

26. delete

[Teaser]

27. do you think anyone cares what you've failed to do?

.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

36. If you can't tell the difference between Obama's agenda and a Republican agenda

I don't know where you were during the Bush Jr and Raygun administrations but it's time to hit the history books

And of course the actual proof that Obama is promoting a Republican agenda comes from the fact that the Republicans have all voted for and strongly supported the legislation he has put forward as part of this agenda

Oh wait a minute...they haven't. EPIC FAIL!

[hulka38]

40. Great post.

[zulchzulu]

42. You indeed have failed...

Take some classes on civics for starters.

[Jennicut]

43. The Rethugs of today want nothing to do with many of Obama's proposoals.

Health care...Rethugs tell me that I should take a $5,000 voucher and purchase my own inusrance with it. Far from what Obama has tried to.
Rethugs want nothing to do with closing Gitmo, nothing to do with civilian trials and reading the rights to people like Umar Farouk Abdul Mutallab.
Rethugs want nothing to do with true energy dependence, they just want oil companies to make bigger profits and they sure as hell don't want to put caps on greenhouse gas emissions. I could go on and on. Obama is not a Republican no matter how many people try to tell me. The Rethugs of today are to the far right. You can argue Obama is in the center, but he is not anything more then that.

[depakid]

45. Clinton figured this out in the 1990's

And Republicans hated him for it!

Go figure.