The President knows stuff we don't, bottom line. That is why this

[babylonsister]

escalation, for 18 months, is happening. That's in itself scary.

At least he's involved and listening.

[WCGreen]

1. Here Here....

[graywarrior]

2. People here want change but can't deal with changes...lol!

[debbierlus]

9. It is really reprehensible to watch DU support this insanity

Because they like the salesman....

This is a disgusting spectacle.

Geither

Bernacke

NSA Spying Program

Expanding executive privilleges

Total sell out on health care

[LakeSamish706]

15. I totally agree with you... Just another salesman selling more war.... Complete BS.

[babylonsister]

16. Nah, listen, and maybe you'll realize you don't know it all. nt

[EFerrari]

99. It's worse to see them abdicating their own frontal lobes. n/t

[oregonjen]

18. Huh? The change I want is to bring our troops home.

I want our troops HOME. No more killing. No more money.
The "lol" at the end of your comment isn't funny.

[graywarrior]

21. I'm not trying to be funny...lol

[msongs]

3. Bush knew stuff we don't, that's pretty pathetic logic to support the escalation nt

[babylonsister]

8. Idiot son lied, and it's been proven. I don't get the feeling Obama is lying; it'd

be a whole lot easier for us and him to just leave.

[PVnRT]

89. I'm sure plenty of people got the "feeling" Bush wasn't lying, either

Again, faulty logic, and, no, I'm not saying that Obama = Bush.

[goclark]

95. Agree nt

[OneGrassRoot]

101. The difference between Iraq and Afghanistan is significant.

Most of us knew BushCo were lying their asses off about Iraq. Afghanistan has always seemed much more complex, to me, though without a doubt I prefer we not be there.

[polichick]

4. Didn't people say that about the Wall Street bailout? The ultimate cover. nt

[babylonsister]

12. Do get back to me on what might have happened if the bailout

hadn't happened. I've read it was a life-saver not just here but internationally, warts and all.

[polichick]

23. It's the ultimate cover - and a fearmongering con. nt

[babylonsister]

41. Great reasoning there. Not. No surprise. nt

[polichick]

44. No surprise you'd be inventing such a ridiculous excuse. nt

[CAG]

85. we would be burning our PC's and laptops for heat, so they couldn't

get back to you....

[azmouse]

5. Yep.

I'm not sure I'd want to know what the President knows.

[Solomon]

6. He sold me.

[IndianaGreen]

7. Why is he mentioning Taliban and Al-Qaeda in the same sentence?

They are not one and the same. One is Pashtun, the other are Arabs. Unless Obama is purposely trying to confuse the people to get them to support this idiotic war.

[goldcanyonaz]

11. It's not an idiotic war to many.

The majority of Americans will support him on this.

Oh, and they will vote for him too.

[LakeSamish706]

22. Time will tell... I'm not of that mind set... n/t

[debbierlus]

13. That is exactly what he is trying to do. Empty words

[polichick]

14. Meet the new boss...

[goldcanyonaz]

32. Weren't you one of his biggest supporters?

[polichick]

39. I worked very hard to get him, a Dem, elected...

But there have been so many decisions that I don't agree with, and I find this war escalation way wrong.

[goldcanyonaz]

49. He did campaign on escalating troops in Afghanistan.

[polichick]

52. Didn't agree with it then, but thought he was less hawkish than Clinton...

Turns out the hawk advised him to do this - oh yippee!

[JuniperLea]

17. Because they are both involved...

You'd do well to pay attention to what he's saying.

[IndianaGreen]

24. How many Pashtuns were on the planes that crashed into WTC?

[lumpy]

93. Great point

thanks

[Solomon]

25. The difference between people who listen to Obama and

people who are sceptical is that some of us think that Obama really wants to stop the war, but is compelled by circumstances; as opposed to trying to find reasons to justify a war to fatten his pockets.

If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you. Obama has no personal interest in it, no dog in the fight, like leaders of the past who own the oil and defense industries and have every reason to wage war.

[Window]

56. Why can't people see this???

President Obama definitely does not have a dog in this fight.

[IndianaGreen]

58. You are right! His daughters won't be the ones going off to war.

One thing that I give the Bidens credit with.

[PVnRT]

90. Your naivete is stunning

[EFerrari]

98. Are you kidding? He has several dogs in this fight, not the smallest of which

is his political career.

[Hansel]

71. Because the Taliban has been and still is giving cover to Al Qaeda?

[IndianaGreen]

77. There is no evidence to support such a claim

Pashtuns don't like foreigners, and that includes the Arabs.

[LakeSamish706]

10. The longer his speech goes on, the more support he is losing... With the 9/11 BS....

I'm afraid this is not the change that I voted for.

[IndianaGreen]

19. There were no Taliban on the planes that crashed into WTC

Obama is using the same disingenuous arguments Bush used.

[LakeSamish706]

26. Yep, the people (supposedly on the planes) were our great friends the Saudi's...

[IndianaGreen]

37. And Saudi Arabia funds the schools that train people like the Taliban

[JuniperLea]

27. Clearly you cannot tolerate change...

Or recognize it, or understand it. That you can't tell how different this is, that you can continue to spout bullshit like this, is far more telling of you than it is of Obama.

Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. He's not losing anything.

[IndianaGreen]

30. Obama is now talking about his Coalition of the Willing

[LakeSamish706]

34. I think you better look around you, many people not only on this board but in America...

are not in agreement with this insane BS... So cut the crap and stop the cheer leading for this.

[JuniperLea]

45. You are clueless...

Utterly and pathetically clueless... welcome to ignore... life is too short.

[LakeSamish706]

50. Yeah, whatever! n/t

[AllentownJake]

20. My freeper bowling friend said the same thing to me about Iraq nt

[IndianaGreen]

28. Big Brother knows what is best for us!

And Emmanuel Goldstein is in Afghanistan.

[KansasVoter]

29. I guess they knew stuff about Vietnam also.

[babylonsister]

35. Dumb. Think about communications during VN vs. now. Whole

different ballgame.

[saracat]

31. Are you kidding? That is exactly what the Bushies used to say to justify Iraq. Seriously.

[IndianaGreen]

40. Obama even invoked his version of Bush's Coalition of the Willing

[Oregone]

33. My sibling made that argument when Bush invaded Iraq

Have you ever listened to presidential tapes when they discuss war? They really don't sound so genius. They sound like politicians figuring out how to stay in office and make the most people happy while executing the war.

The whole trusted superior minds shit is a tired meme to a war weary nation

[babylonsister]

38. Idiot son thought two seconds before going into Iraq. He

had that on his agenda prior to 9/11. PNAC? No comparison.

[Cha]

36. Lots of the little tired ol soundbytes

on here from those who don't know wtf.

[IndianaGreen]

43. You haven't served one day in uniform!

You don't know what it is to be lied to by your government.

[Cha]

46. So. I know when I'm being lied to and DU could fill

volumes.

[izquierdista]

42. I agree

I don't know how to talk out of both sides of my mouth and make pronouncements out my asshole either. Once I learn, I might be Presidential material too!

[babylonsister]

47. Are you privy to what he is? Can you share what threats we might

be facing? Thanks.

[izquierdista]

55. Privy?

We might be facing threats from rabid flying monkeys! And Ming the Merciless' death ray! Luckily, the Pentagon ha$ drawn up contingency plan$ $o that contractor$ can protect u$ with only a mode$t increa$e in the number of troop$ deployed. And they will all be home months before the next primaries begin. Unless they aren't.

[babylonsister]

80. That's a no then, just your opinion. That's what I thought. nt

[izquierdista]

92. That's an "I can see through bullshit"

All you have to do is wipe it away, and you will be able to as well.

Seriously, go listen to the Bill Moyers' Journal on the LBJ phone calls (http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/11202009/profile.html) and you will come to the conclusion that there is no "secret privy information" that magically floats at the highest levels in "for your eyes only" folders. Pay particularly close attention to the part where LBJ is wondering how all the information is available to those looking for it. It indicates he isn't getting any better information than the average reporter can dig up with a modicum of effort.

Your perception of the world has been warped by reading too many James Bond novels. There is no SPECTRE, and while there may be an Al-Qaeda, they do not have a remote laboratory hidden in a volcano. People who run around yelling "security, security, what about national security" are boobs who wouldn't know what to do if they were sitting on a pleasure yacht watching the Japanese fleet launch the Pearl Harbor attack. As Condi Rice admitted, "We didn't know they would use airplanes as weapons".

Obama doesn't have any more knowledge than people who are moderately well read on the issue. He may be briefed with more details, but the picture available to you and me is the same. And the picture I see is Vietnam happening all over again, simply because the warhawks at the Pentagon get to chew on his ear too much.

[MollieBradford]

62. yeah

President Bush er... Obama thanks you.

[babylonsister]

81. Are you bitter? Tough. nt

[knightinwhitesatin]

48. Does he know

what it looks like to watch his fucking best friend bleed out from an IED blast?

I know what it looks like

[babylonsister]

82. And? Who was the last prez who knew that? Has he listened to

loads of people vs. flying off the cuff, as the previous pResident did? You tell me.

We didn't elect a general, we elected a president, who is trying his best to do the right thing, for a change.

[knightinwhitesatin]

86. no the last guy was a subhuman moron

don't equate my dislike with the Afghanistan policy with dislike for Obama.

My point is that the generals advising him have in several accounts been caught lying, and furthermore they aren't on the battlefield to see what is really going on. They regurgitate briefings prepared for them by their staffs who have learned to say exactly what will not piss off the old man, so instead of accurate briefings on the war, Obama gets sycophantic briefings from the staff of generals who lie and don't have a clue with whats going on under 10,000 feet.

[3waygeek]

51. And I suppose that's also why he's continuing Bush policies

on civil liberties, trials for terror suspects, bailouts, etc. Sorry, that dog won't hunt anymore.

[DeschutesRiver]

53. I have been thinking the same recently, and agree that it is scary. nt

[Window]

54. It is what it is. Well done President Obama. n/t

[MollieBradford]

61. using a completely meaningless

and overused phrase to defend Obama.... priceless

[ShortnFiery]

57. That's the same exact rationale used to escalate the Vietnam War.

NO SALE! :grr:

[IndianaGreen]

59. South Vietnam at least had a working government

Karzai is just the mayor of Kabul.

[MollieBradford]

60. Nooooooooooooooooooooo

I knew someone was going to go "freeper" on us. That is what they kept saying about Bush.

[babylonsister]

68. You're talking to me about 'freepers'? Hahaha! Yea, we know

idiot son lied to us, don't we? Or do you?

Can you just imagine a president might know more than you or I do? I can. Bush lied; my instincts tell me this man isn't doing that. If he was, what did he gain from this speech?

[Clio the Leo]

63. Why didnt we just wait and let HIM answer all of the critics arguments?

Because he did tonight.

I think we can divide that group into two camps ..... those who listened and may be more reassured now and those who didn't listen, had already made up their minds and were lost long ago. Those who lives must be so empty that they rely on attacking members of their own party .... their fellow citizens .... to get their rocks off.

I dont have it in me to argue .... not right now.

I just know I'm glad Barack Obama is President.

[totodeinhere]

64. You just set off my BS meter. n/t

[boston bean]

65. OMG you have been here forever and you can make a statement like that

you sound just like the freepers defending bush!

Oh gawd, get your head out of your arse, please stop making a fool of yourself.

[babylonsister]

69. Bite me, bb. You tell me what we haven't heard. Did you even

listen to the speech? Hint: listen to the first part. Or don't, which I'm quite sure you didn't.

[chill_wind]

66. How is it scary? "It was in every speech he made for the last 2 years!!"

"You must not have been listening!" He told you as a junior Senator he was worried about Pakistan and in favor of "finishing the job" in Afghanistan.

[babylonsister]

70. To me, 'scary' is the stuff we don't hear and the reason why

he felt compelled to extend this despite all the voices he knew who would lambast him.

I'm not privy to it but he is. Don't you think he'd leave if he could? Something or a bunch of someones is preventing that.

[chill_wind]

76. I think this is classic Obama. Splitting the difference.

He began painting himself into this corner and building it up a long time ago as a candidate. There is no denying that. So we'll do this much, like we said all along we would do, which will appease the Generals. Those "someones". But we'll signal an intent to get out "quick" to try to somewhat appease the left. That's what the calculation looks like to me. He took his time.

I could of course be very wrong.

[Odin2005]

67. I suspect that Pakistan is going to explode soon.

And we might have to go in and secure the nukes.

[truebrit71]

72. That's what worries me most about that region..

If for no other reason than India (also a nuclear nation) will not sit idly by if it appears Paksitans nukes might fall into the wrong hands..

[QC]

73. Quite right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82py_wk5vE4

[Bitwit1234]

74. Wait a minute...isn't that the excuse Huckabee gave for pardoning

the guy who killed the cops. I think so.

[frylock]

75. are you fucking shitting me?! bush knew stuff we didn't know either..

fuck this place anymore.

[ej510]

97. I agree, that is the worst fucking excuse ever!!!!!

Obama sounded like Dubya tonight and has duplicated alot of his policies.

[tkmorris]

78. The same reasoning could justify everything Bush ever did

But it doesn't, because it's nonsense. There is no "super-secret-extra-special-deep-intelligence-only-I-know-about" that makes this all OK.

Funny thing is I am not entirely convinced this move HAS to work out as badly as many others here are. I just can't abide the reason you gave as any kind of justification.

[earth mom]

79. Obama knows fearmongering and warmongering. That's about it. nt

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. Fredo knew things too. He was smart. Not like people say.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

84. Okay... that is really funny. (LOL IRL)

[Vidar]

87. Obama is a brilliant salesman for the militay-industrial complex.

[cornermouse]

88. If he was involved and listening he'd be invading Pakistan.

You know, where bin Laden is hiding out...

[R. P. McMurphy]

91. k & r n/t

[agentS]

94. I had a feeling Al-Qaeda was not done.

From the speech

So no – I do not make this decision lightly. I make this decision because I am convinced that our security is at stake in Afghanistan and Pakistan. This is the epicenter of the violent extremism practiced by al Qaeda. It is from here that we were attacked on 9/11, and it is from here that new attacks are being plotted as I speak. This is no idle danger; no hypothetical threat. In the last few months alone, we have apprehended extremists within our borders who were sent here from the border region of Afghanistan and Pakistan to commit new acts of terror. This danger will only grow if the region slides backwards, and al Qaeda can operate with impunity. We must keep the pressure on al Qaeda, and to do that, we must increase the stability and capacity of our partners in the region.

Republicans NEVER clean up their mess! It's always up to more sensible parties to deal with it.
So, the 'surge' is justified, though a little excessive.

[yurbud]

96. If there was a chance of another terrorist attack, that would be a reason to go after their patrons

Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and the black bag operators on the right who make deals with them.

[mmonk]

100. Like Bush. Don't question.

[avaistheone1]

102. Yes,same sad excuse. Bush, Cheney, Obama knows better than us.

So the U.S. we have impunity to send poor people to send poor people in other lands.

Now that is audacity.

[NYC_SKP]

103. "This is a responsible plan to do Afghanistan right. The adults are running the show. Get over it."

From another thread.

I Rec'c that post.

I Rec THIS post.

:patriot:

[Dr Robert]

104. don't tell that to the armchair Generals. they're pros at conducting wars, apparently.

[treestar]

105. I didn't like that when Bush/Cheney said it

But had to admit it to be true, nonetheless. However the neocon cabal had an overall goal that I could not approve.

And this would have been true with Clinton, some of whose escapades abroad I did not like.

[burning rain]

106. The line that "the president knows stuff we don't"....

can be used as an argument that we shouldn't dare criticize anything any president does, and I know you don't mean to suggest that.