This Is All About Pakistan

[Yavin4]

The escalation is about stabilizing Pakistan and keeping that nation from falling into the hands of the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Yes, it will cost lives, but leaving will cause many, many, many more lives. Also, those folks who compare this to Vietnam are dead wrong. That analogy is completely inapt.

There two nations, Afghanistan AND Pakistan that are literally hanging in the balance. If one falls, they both fall, and if they both fall, serious repercussions, such as a nuclear war with India, become possible.

For those concerned about life, how many more deaths will occur if we leave abruptly.

[bigjohn16]

1. We could help Pakistan secure their border and arsenal for far less blood and treasure.

Instead we're going to do that and try to nation build in Afghanistan.

[Yavin4]

4. That's What We're Doing

That's where the escalation is headed. Obama, after much thorough thought and deliberation, is trying to secure that particular region between Afghanistan and Pakistan. In fact, it's the elected government of Pakistan that wants us there.

[bigjohn16]

11. We're also going to try and put an Afghani military and police force in place.

There are 34 provinces for them to secure and as of now they can secure 1. 1 in 4 soldiers in the Afghani Army quits in the first year. The country is a patchwork of tribes with no national identity. President Obama is going to put in place a force and the infrastructure to maintain it in 18 months? I have more than a few doubts about that. The Central government is corrupt to the top and we're being told that this is the government thats going to run this new system? Afghanistan is a quagmire that the President is going to sink us farther into.

[ginnyinWI]

6. you can't nation-build in only 18 months though

The best 18 months will do is give the Afghans some breathing room to get their act together finally. Seems to me you can't have a healthy Pakistan next to a failed state and a porous border.

[bigjohn16]

13. That's right you can't nation build in 18 months. That's why this is a fool's errand.

It's been a region dominated by tribalism for thousands of years but you think they're going to "get their shit together" in 18 months?

[jobycom]

2. The reason history repeats itself is because people keep believing the same excuses.

Nations always hang in the balance, on both sides. Lives will always be lost, on both sides. It all boils down to the basic fact that one group wants to force the other group to be like them, and is willing to kill anyone who doesn't comply.

It's exactly like Viet Nam.

[Yavin4]

5. *Sigh* Vietnam Was About A Nation Looking for Its Own Independence from Colonial Rule

Afghanistan/Pakistan is about two nations who will collapse unless we can help those people who are trying to stabilize it.

If we pull out, and these two nations fall, can you live with nuclear war between India and Pakistan?

[jobycom]

12. Sigh back at ya.

We were in a foreign land messing with cultural, political, and ideological forces we didn't understand, used as pawns by one side against another in an historical struggle that would continue once we left, no matter when we left, and that we would never find a resolution to. It doesn't matter what borders are drawn or how the struggle is defined. It's the same situation--we are somewhere we can't win.

And nuclear war was the ultimate boogeyman with Viet Nam, too.

As with Viet Nam, we should have never gone in, we should not stay, and they will only solve their problems once we leave. Until then, we are just the biggest stick wielded by one side against the other.

[Yavin4]

19. We do understand the cultural, political, and ideological forces

Maybe you don't. Also, it's not about winning. It's about regional stability, and giving the governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan a chance to become stable.

[mcablue]

3. Al Qaeda already moved from Afghanistan to Pakistan

Remember, there are only 100 Al Qaeda fighters left in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda is "no longer operational" there. The leadership moved to Pakistan. So I don't get it.

[andym]

7. Pakistan is an unstable democracy with nuclear weapons

it probably represents the greatest potential danger to world peace in the next few years(if extremists should get their hands on the nukes and missiles).

[TexasObserver]

8. This is about ignorance, hubris, and naivete.

HIS.

[Cha]

20. I disagree.

[VMI Dem]

9. Bush Doctrine

War for the sake of a possible future threat.

[IndianaGreen]

10. So we send our troops to Afghanistan because....

bin Laden is in Pakistan?

:crazy:

[Moochy]

14. We gotta smoke em out of Afghanistan

no er um gotta fight em over there so we don't have to fight em over in Pakistan.
We have to get out of there as carefully as Bush did so carelessly got er.. us um. in there..
..can't get fooled again!

[IndianaGreen]

16. and them nuclear armed goats the Taliban keeps

[Yavin4]

18. Don't Be Obtuse

This is not about Bin Laden. This is about stability in the region, something that a thoughtful president considered.

[Cha]

21. Purposely obtuse..no doubt thinking it's cute.

[PurityOfEssence]

15. If we left right now, the vacuum would draw Islamists right in.

This might be just the thing Pakistan needs to take the pressure off: distract the crazies with a glorious opportunity. It would CERTAINLY leach some of the wicked elements out of the Pakistani body, and take away the argument that the fundamentalists are a better alternative than the invading infidels. In the absence of conquers to hate, the fundies don't look so good.

I'm sick at heart, and I feel a grim closeness with many of the other dismayed lefties here.

[Clio the Leo]

17. YOU may call it "Pakistan" but *I* call it....

.... "the land of many nuclear plants that is surrounded by people who'd like to kills us." ;)

[optimator]

22. lol the domino theory

glad the cheerleaders are finally admitting they agree with Bush's Preemptive doctrine.
I will never.